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AndyHill

Submarines: the next step.

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WG adding Subs:556073454_eatingglue.gif.363164bcd6114c894f9bd5d9e48e81ce.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Players with brains:547539214_angryanime.jpg.40b643ec74f751d4c9f478c518aceaa4.jpg

 

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35 minutes ago, AndyHill said:

submarines weren't much use in typical naval combat until homing torp... oh ship.

Oh now ya'gon did it, gavem the idea :Smile_hiding:

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the thing i am  mostly worried is about how they intend we fight them cause i ont see any way to do that in any way that it is an kind of good for the game short of basically restructuring the entire game and its balance into large fleet battles were you have atleast 2-3 BBs, 6-7 Cruiser and 15-20 DDs involved with maybe 3-4 subs as in the currentr game format the only class viable to hunt them would be the 2-3 DDs per game and they already have from a teamplay perspective way too many important jobs to fullfill (and that is before we put in the regular will of the 0815 random player to fullfill his dutys)

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could be good , might be just what the main game needs to break this passive meta , certainly too early to say no

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2 hours ago, xxNihilanxx said:

Except that anyone who knows how to read between the lines understands that, as a result of most of these decisions, their revenues are dropping faster than a Barnsley girl's knickers. This is why we are seeing SO MANY desperate moves by WG to try to increase revenue.

Yep, it does all feel a bit panicky. Which doesn't exactly inspire confidence to spend more money...

 

Thing is, if WG are concerned about running out of new content (which we know they are), surely the question to ask is not 'how do we generate more content [edit: meaning specifically ships] and keep adding it [what feels like] faster and faster?'. It's surely 'How do we keep the game viable in a state where there's less new content available to add?'. I don't have a full answer, but initial thoughts suggest it's about retaining new players (whole debate in itself), concentrating on balance and some degree of stability – meta shifts are fine and all, but constantly radically shaking it up seems counter-productive – and using events to introduce content which gives you revenue. As I said above, Sharks v Eagles would be an example. These are just thoughts off the top of my head, so feel free to critique.

 

Anyway, the game felt in a good state last summer. Less straight-up cheesy gimmicky rubbish, mirrored MM had just come in, WG seemed to be listening, great events, new daily missions, not more new stuff than it was possible to keep up with, main complaints IIRC were BB AP on DDs, Conqueror and the port UI. Surely the dream is to have a relatively stable and positive and reasonably balanced meta like that into which you can introduce evolutions to stop it from becoming stale, rather than smashing it to pieces every few months in the name of disruption and novelty? Is that just me?

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I see people saying there will be proper testing this time. Well, CVs also had 'proper testing' and then WG decided to throw them onto the live servers even though they were nowhere near ready for it, telling us some [edited] excuse about how it's impossible to test stuff on a test server and later lying into the faces of those who participated in the test about issues that were never discovered even though testers told them. Why should it be different this time? By now players know what they can expect from a test by WG.

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8 minutes ago, Padds01 said:

could be good , might be just what the main game needs to break this passive meta , certainly too early to say no

 

Or it could make the game way more passive because people will be even more scared to push. Still no harm in testing them I guess. 

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1 minute ago, 10ThousandThings said:

Yep, it does all feel a bit panicky. Which doesn't exactly inspire confidence to spend more money...

 

Thing is, if WG are concerned about running out of new content (which we know they are), surely the question to ask is not 'how do we generate more content and keep adding it [what feels like] faster and faster?'. It's surely 'How do we keep the game viable in a state where there's less new content available to add?'.

 

This is a large part of what the Naval Training Centre/Research Bureau/How Can We Get Them To Pay Over And Over For The Same Content Academy or whatever it ends up being called is about.

 

You really get the feeling that they are just flailing around in the dark clutching at straws, don't you?

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My prediction: They're going to be irritating for the players who don't want them, while those who do want them are going to find them unsatisfying and disappointing.

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6 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

 

This is a large part of what the Naval Training Centre/Research Bureau/How Can We Get Them To Pay Over And Over For The Same Content Academy or whatever it ends up being called is about.

 

You really get the feeling that they are just flailing around in the dark clutching at straws, don't you?

I've been away from the game for a while and have no silver ships above T7, so I've honestly not paid that much attention, but the NTC does sound rubbish. I see what you mean, in that it shows they're thinking of the long term, but hopefully they find a more sustainable and positive approach.

Edited by 10ThousandThings
lol not NYC

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Vor 18 Minuten, shadowwolf9705 sagte:

the only class viable to hunt them would be the 2-3 DDs per game and they already have from a teamplay perspective way too many important jobs to fullfill (and that is before we put in the regular will of the 0815 random player to fullfill his dutys)

 

As I've said before, this is my absolute horror and concern as a fledgeling DD main. I can already hear the cries of the team wanting me over here to cap, over there to spot, further over there to screen against enemy DD and over yonder to hunt for the Sub :Smile_sceptic: And all that while concealment play gets further eroded by CV spotting and radar on every new ship. Fun!

 

On a balancing point, I fear that Subs would either be very lacklustre to play or blatantly OP and then go the way of the CV rework with just everyone unsatisfied and pissed off.

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1 minute ago, FerrowTheFox said:

 

As I've said before, this is my absolute horror and concern as a fledgeling DD main. I can already hear the cries of the team wanting me over here to cap, over there to spot, further over there to screen against enemy DD and over yonder to hunt for the Sub :Smile_sceptic: And all that while concealment play gets further eroded by CV spotting and radar on every new ship. Fun!

 

On a balancing point, I fear that Subs would either be very lacklustre to play or blatantly OP and then go the way of the CV rework with just everyone unsatisfied and pissed off.

*ferrowthefox joins the match!*

 

*angreh sub noises in the distance*

 

*team members screaming for halp*

 

*ferrowthefox has disconnected from the match!*

 

does that sum it up for the next 2-3 patches after subway's have been released?

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10 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

My prediction: They're going to be irritating for the players who don't want them, while those who do want them are going to find them unsatisfying and disappointing.

 

Aye, you don't have to be the lovechild of some strange, threeway between Nostradamus, Mother Shipton and Mystic Meg to see that one coming.

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15 minutes ago, Stormhawk_V said:

I see people saying there will be proper testing this time.

The 'separate mode' bit *may* make a positive difference.

 

That said, I can't imagine anything will stop WG ploughing ahead with eventual PvP implementation, even if all the customers tell them to knock it off - I can't help recalling that the Halloween subs had 'real' subs underneath all the gubbins. You don't make that much effort unless you're fairly hell-bent on going ahead...

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8 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

You really get the feeling that they are just flailing around in the dark clutching at straws, don't you?

Exactly.  The only part of their announcement that I believe is "the new gameplay of submarines will be tested."  All the rest of their explaining and assurances of the reasonableness of their plans is completely discounted and ignored.  WG has long since lost all claim to trust and faith in their competence and integrity. 

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13 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

My prediction: They're going to be irritating for the players who don't want them, while those who do want them are going to find them unsatisfying and disappointing.

Exactly, I started playing again when CV's rework came in, and have now pretty much given up now CV's have been nerfed into uselessness, exactly the same will happen with this, probably not from DD players this time but more from BB and maybe CL drivers.

 

At first they will be fun to play but existing classes of players will scream blue murder for nerfs.

 

Also agree if dd's become sub hunters dd players will get to add "kill the sub" to the other things people demand they do i.e. "cap X!!!!!" 

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I don't see how subs could possibly reduce camping or speed up the meta, when in reality, because of their fundamental attributes, they were only able to engage forces that basically ran into them i.e. pushed and got punished for it by a ship class designed for camping ambush-style tactics. If the subs' main role and playing style are even remotely like the real deal they will be the ultimate campers and push-stoppers with exactly zero ability to push or up the pace of battle.

 

Which doesn't sound very nice, fun or good for the meta, to be honest. And if they have nothing like a remote resemblance to the real deal, why bother in the first place?

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Vor 4 Stunden, AndyHill sagte:
 Will there be world peace and cure for cancer later this year?

Well there will be a no-deal Brexit and/or constitutional crisis in the UK within four months, very probably accompanied by a complete breakup of the Union.

 

Other very likely occurrences within that time span include protests in Hong Kong escalating to a civil war, a major stock market crash/recession, and a worldwide general strike over climate change.

 

So I'm kinda pessimistic about the subs turning out great.

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23 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

You really get the feeling that they are just flailing around in the dark clutching at straws, don't you?

tbh though this is the dark secret of all Wargaming's games, once you get to Tier 10 or 9 it gets to be a bit boring once you have all classes covered, I'm not there yet but I know a few people who have given up because it's not fun anymore, they can bring out new ships but after a while they pretty much all operate the same with some slight buffs or weaknesses up or down.

 

Wargaming need to introduce new classes just so they can keep people, and stop people drifting off to other games.

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55 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

We do. If I were WG, I'd be rather concerned about this - it can't be good for them to have this level of cynicism and general distrust amongst the more active elements of the customer base.

 

Of course, we could be even more wildly unrepresentative of the wider customer base than usual I suppose...

I've been saying this for years now.

Forumites are the people that care the most about a game. That's a simple fact since they chose to spend more of their time discussing the game.

 

The amount of synicism, distrust and (previously) complete anger and the feeling of discrimination felt among the most loyal part of the playerbase must mean something is horribly horribly wrong.

 

You should see the things I've written here during the dark days of server inequality. But that was all out of passion for this game. I want it to do good. That's why it's so frustrating to see a developer throw it all away.

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Vor 9 Minuten, arcticstorm123 sagte:

Wargaming think they need to introduce new classes just so they can keep people, and stop people drifting off to other games.

There, fixed it for you.

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4 minutes ago, arcticstorm123 said:

Wargaming need to introduce new classes just so they can keep people, and stop people drifting off to other games.

No, we don't need new content at all costs. If the game was well balanced and mostly fun a lot more people would play it. Instead WG has created an endless circlejerk of powercreep by ignoring everything their CCs and testers told them.

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Posted in another thread that I disagree with Subs coming to Random battles. If they stayed in a special game mode or even be included in scenarios somehow then fair enough it could be an interesting addition.

 

Sadly the desire to get some extra premium subs means that eventually they will find a way regardless of how balanced they are. The fact that WG are still struggling to balance the Rework CVs does not inspire much confidence.

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5 minutes ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

There, fixed it for you.

Yep, and there it is, right there, the difference between players who love the game, or some aspect of it, and developers who are tasked with increasing revenue and player retention :Smile_teethhappy:

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13 minutes ago, arcticstorm123 said:

tbh though this is the dark secret of all Wargaming's games, once you get to Tier 10 or 9 it gets to be a bit boring once you have all classes covered, I'm not there yet but I know a few people who have given up because it's not fun anymore, they can bring out new ships but after a while they pretty much all operate the same with some slight buffs or weaknesses up or down.

 

Wargaming need to introduce new classes just so they can keep people, and stop people drifting off to other games.

I can see this point – but I am baffled that they haven't given serious thought to keeping it engaging for people who already have everything, without having infinite ships to add, earlier in their games' life. Again, maybe a bit of thought to quality over quantity, and to the long term, would have led to very different outcomes now...

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