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AndyHill

Submarines: the next step.

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Speed aside - obviously they need to be faster than in real life - still 30kn isn’t fast in the context of the game.

 

 

Don’t really like the concept of a three boat tree though 

 

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6 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Speed aside - obviously they need to be faster than in real life - still 30kn isn’t fast in the context of the game.

So, 27kts+ Colorado when "for balancing reasons"?

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46 minutes ago, Panocek said:

So, 27kts+ Colorado when "for balancing reasons"?

 

Wait another year and she’ll probably get a spood beest 

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You guys should check the torpedo string.

"prgt000_invisible_ta" does not bode well.

 

(I know it means the tubes, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if WG made sub torps invisible too at this point.)

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2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

You guys should check the torpedo string.

"prgt000_invisible_ta" does not bode well.

38bcmn.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Elektroboot said:

 

Gato - 30 knts - 10x torps

Type K - 31knts - 10x torps

 

R. I. P. Balanz! 

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Some Reddit discussion says that Americans get acoustic torpedoes on their subs. I hope this is not true, since it doesn't make sense and they weren't the first to invent it in the war.
image.png.3393ecbf78f7a2e1fff18f901fbe0d3a.png

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14 minutes ago, Ubertron_X said:

P2_annotated4000.jpg

 

This is quite hilarious, the only missing thing is a torpedo autoloader. Shame that it's impossible to shoot those rockets in the open sea. +-5 mile accuracy would be only useful in bombing big cities or huge industrial complexes.

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14 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Speed aside - obviously they need to be faster than in real life - still 30kn isn’t fast in the context of the game.

 

 

Consider this - you're in a DD with depth charges. Depth charges that you need to drop ON TOP of the aforementioned submerged rocket-sub that is zooming around, ducking and diving. You only have a margin of a few knots speed over such a target and you can't presumably spot it from that far away when its submerged. Plus it can torp you if you are trying to make a run directly at it.

 

How well do you think that's going to go for the DD player, who also has to avoid radar, the obligatory rocket plane mafia and the opposing DDs WHILE trying to play ASW games with the subs?

 

The 'hurr-dude subs are kewl' lobby don't seem to register these little gamebreaking issues...

 

I am actually posting up a mega 'ASW' post to its own thread later on - which will explain in painful detail just how many different ways WG can mess up in countering subs. They're already going down one major no-no - giving WW2 subs the speed of post-war nuclear ones.

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25 minutes ago, Gvozdika said:

 

Consider this - you're in a DD with depth charges. Depth charges that you need to drop ON TOP of the aforementioned submerged rocket-sub that is zooming around, ducking and diving. You only have a margin of a few knots speed over such a target and you can't presumably spot it from that far away when its submerged. Plus it can torp you if you are trying to make a run directly at it.

 

How well do you think that's going to go for the DD player, who also has to avoid radar, the obligatory rocket plane mafia and the opposing DDs WHILE trying to play ASW games with the subs?

 

The 'hurr-dude subs are kewl' lobby don't seem to register these little gamebreaking issues...

 

I am actually posting up a mega 'ASW' post to its own thread later on - which will explain in painful detail just how many different ways WG can mess up in countering subs. They're already going down one major no-no - giving WW2 subs the speed of post-war nuclear ones.

 

I assume submerged speed would be more like 20ish knots - in the vid we only see surface speed 

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2 minutes ago, Gvozdika said:

 

Consider this - you're in a DD with depth charges. Depth charges that you need to drop ON TOP of the aforementioned submerged rocket-sub that is zooming around, ducking and diving. You only have a margin of a few knots speed over such a target and you can't presumably spot it from that far away when its submerged. Plus it can torp you if you are trying to make a run directly at it.

 

How well do you think that's going to go for the DD player, who also has to avoid radar, the obligatory rocket plane mafia and the opposing DDs WHILE trying to play ASW games with the subs?

 

The 'hurr-dude subs are kewl' lobby don't seem to register these little gamebreaking issues...

 

I am actually posting up a mega 'ASW' post to its own thread later on - which will explain in painful detail just how many different ways WG can mess up in countering subs. They're already going down one major no-no - giving WW2 subs the speed of post-war nuclear ones.

Most important balance factor will be the amount of oxygen a sub can last underwater before needing to resurface. But the scary thing is there are submarines that have snorkels allowing them to recharge and replenish their oxygen and battery at periscope depth meaning they are virtually untouchable unless there are advanced ASW.

In the war, allies had numerous technological advancements to counter axis submarines from 1943.
-Radio detectors
-Forward firing depth charges
-Advanced Sonar

Axis tho managed to develop acoustic torpedoes in response to disable convoy escorts they saw limited success until Allies countered it by just having a pipe towed in the water with holes making a louder sound than the ship's propulsion system to completely counter those sound homing torpedoes.

Later from 1944, the Allies managed to make their radar even smaller to fit into planes so any submarine that would surface to the ocean even during the night to start their diesel engines to recharge their batteries, they would be easily spotted by these aircraft.

From 1944 Axis tried to counter this allied development by equipping AA guns to submarines this saw some success until allies put ground strike loud outs to their planes like unguided rockets. So being unable to defend itself submarines had only one option left, to crash-dive before aircrafts get them but this was also ineffective for the axis since the diesel engine is very loud during battery recharge makes them very hard to notice the sounds of aircrafts, usually it's too late by that time to crash-dive even if they spot the aircraft visually. So the axis came up with new development, a device that intercepts radio waves which allowed them safely submerge before getting spotted. But heck, allies also figured this out and countered it by emitting radio waves that the device couldn't intercept anymore and they also came up with their own acoustic torpedo that is aerially dropped, if it lands somewhere near the sub usually it's hopeless for the sub to escape it even being submerged.

Eventually, the axis invented the snorkel near the end of the war. It's basically a metal tube that allowed oxygen to go in and out of the submarine while being completely submerged, allowing it to completely stay undetected from the radio wave sweeps that allied aircrafts were doing which allowed them to safely recharge their batteries.
image.thumb.png.993c26889cc62833b56cffe15c93198c.png
Unfortunately, not all old existing submarines were compatible with this snorkel configuration and this all resulted in the axis developing their magnum opus submarine that embodied all their wartime experience and development into one design, the type 21 submarine.
image.thumb.png.683f25aad8adce8b56103f3a2f125b55.png
Some of these submarines were built but sadly they never saw action in the war, it featured a lot of new innovations and nobody knows how they would worked against the allies but snorkels would definitely made a big impact against allied anti-submarine effort and they would be definitely overpowered in-game since the submarines would never need to surface being practically immune to surface vessel guns.

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5 hours ago, Elektroboot said:

 

Now the subs really comes close.

 

Always thought the subs would come to the game eventually but I didn't except them this year. 

 

Can't wait for Gamescom presentation. :fish_nerv:

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Why are these a nice addition to the game? As I have said many times the depth charges may end up working like 'throwing them on that general direction' with hopes of hitting something. Not cool, no skills in that.

 

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^^ Further to my above break-time rant while waiting for the kettle to boil...

 

I've created a clear and comprehensive explanation of the various genies that WG needs to deal with when it comes to ASW. Some light reading material for those interested in why myself and others think it's all a bad idea...

 

 

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It is a bad idea

 

It will be a custer:etc_swear: and another unneccesary dumpster fire

 

They will still do it

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On 8/19/2019 at 1:03 PM, Winged_Cat_Dormant said:

Why are these a nice addition to the game? As I have said many times the depth charges may end up working like 'throwing them on that general direction' with hopes of hitting something. Not cool, no skills in that.

 

The idea behind depth charges is that you don't need to 'hit something', they work because of the compression wave in the water caused by the explosion, trying to hit a sub with one is an inefficient tactic. 

 

But this opens up an interesting question, if you have a friendly sub in the area dropping depth charges could damage or kill it, and also what if a friendly ship runs above the depth charge as it explodes, it would break the ships back. So plenty opportunity for 'friendly fire' .

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3 hours ago, 250swb said:

The idea behind depth charges is that you don't need to 'hit something', they work because of the compression wave in the water caused by the explosion, trying to hit a sub with one is an inefficient tactic. 

 

But this opens up an interesting question, if you have a friendly sub in the area dropping depth charges could damage or kill it, and also what if a friendly ship runs above the depth charge as it explodes, it would break the ships back. So plenty opportunity for 'friendly fire' .

Still, they more or less work like flak. Is not like like shooting a projectile, that's what I mean. But I get your point and your concern about friendly fire as well, very interesting point.

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6 hours ago, 250swb said:

The idea behind depth charges is that you don't need to 'hit something', they work because of the compression wave in the water caused by the explosion, trying to hit a sub with one is an inefficient tactic. 

Actually No. Classical depth charges were extremy un-efficient.Due the fact that they where not designed do detonate on impact.

 

Hedgehogs carried mutch less explosives, but where designed do detonate on contact. They where mutch more effective (statistically speaking - 10.times as effective) than traditional depth charges.

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4 minutes ago, mariouus said:

Actually No. Classical depth charges were extremy un-efficient.Due the fact that they where not designed do detonate on impact.

 

Hedgehogs carried mutch less explosives, but where designed do detonate on contact. They where mutch more effective (statistically speaking - 10.times as effective) than traditional depth charges.

I believe they had to set manually what depth the charges explode, fortunately WW2 submarines don't dive very deep, around 150 meters is the red zone for most subs where hull starts giving up. Put we know from Gamescon that the work-in-progress submarines will only have 3 depth levels. Surface, periscope depth and deep water depth. So probably the depth charges will be mostly RNG with periscope depth being highest chance to inflict damage and deep water having reduced chance to deal damage.

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On ‎8‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 7:08 PM, Yedwy said:

It will be a custer:etc_swear: 

Like the one at Little Big Horn...? :Smile_Default:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll get my coat. :Smile_hiding:

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