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Mohammad_S__AbuSafieh

Citadel Topic (BB)

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Hello everyone 

so i went into a training room tried to teach myself how to hit citadel of BB after a massive failure while brawling against an N.carolina in my gnes ,  took 12 BB with me varying from UK / RUSS / USN BB from t7-t10 

well lets start

against KIng George V / MONARCH : i got 3 citadel hits at the exact center of the ship where its the plane located (under the empty space in the superstructure at the center of the ship) well after seeing the same design of citadel in UK ships of up tier i didn't need to worry because its always in the middle 

against various RUSS ships even against Kremlin : well shoot anywhere 

against AMAGI : 0 citadel , I shoot everywhere on the ship but not even a single Citadel at all , i was surprised but horrified i tried every part of the ship but the cit wouldnt come at all 

against izumo : 2 cit (one was the engine) at the back of the ship , couldn't citadel under guns or the center of the ship EVEN THOUGH THE ONLY ENCOUNTER in random battle WITH IZUMO WAS CLOSE AND I SHOOT HIM UNDER GUNS AND I GOT 1cit and finished him with torps 

against IOWA : it was PURE LUCK i got x3 cit under the very front gun , and thats only 1 time and then the cits just disappeared 

against Ncarolina : again complete failure and 0 cit shooting every part of the ship (similar to amagi)

against montana : 1 cit , at last portion of HP LOLZ still feels luck (was under second frontal guns)

against nagato : well it was under the smoke tower , i got various cit hits shooting there 

against yamato : you just cant just stop cit broadside yamato if you have enough pen LOLZ

so here are results 

i'm so afraid i'm going to fail completely in FDG because i cant cit certain ships AT ALL without the magical finishing torps 

So can you help a player out and tell me excatly where to shoot AND HOW TO SHOOT ::::

AMAGI

MONTANA 

IOWA

N.Carolina

IZUMO

???

 

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Range plays a large factor in getting reliable citadel hits. The Amago for instance has a form of turtleback, and the Iowa/Montana has a below waterline citadel so in order to reliably citadel those you need to shoot from further away. What you can't citadel up close you need to aim slightly higher to the midsection of the armor belt and enjoy 20+k volleys.

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I suggest to look at the armor layout and THEN try the training room.

Going for a close quarter citadel vs a ship with turtleback (Amagi) is a waste if time.

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1 minute ago, ollonborre said:

Range plays a large factor in getting reliable citadel hits. The Amago for instance has a form of turtleback, and the Iowa/Montana has a below waterline citadel so in order to reliably citadel those you need to shoot from further away. What you can't citadel up close you need to aim slightly higher to the midsection of the armor belt and enjoy 20+k volleys.

so whats the point of brawling if those are meduim/long range cits hits only ???

also you cant into snipe completely when you're german ????????

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There are no certain way to get a guaranteed citadel. All you can do is aim in the right area and pray to RNGesus.

 

If you do aim in the right area, fire and don't get a citadel, that's just the way things are. Every time you "pull the trigger" it's a lottery. There are no guaranteed citadels.

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2 minutes ago, Mohammad_S__AbuSafieh said:

so whats the point of brawling if those are meduim/long range cits hits only ???

also you cant into snipe completely when you're german ????????

  • That you select the enemy you want to brawl with and do not go mindlessly forward
  • That you know when to use your torps
  • That you have extra fun with a secondary setup

I have seen Gneisenaus who took out three ships while brawling with less then 20 seconds between the kills.

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Just now, Hanse77SWE said:

There are no certain way to get a guaranteed citadel. All you can do is aim in the right area and pray to RNGesus.

 

If you do aim in the right area, fire and don't get a citadel, that's just the way things are. Every time you "pull the trigger" it's a lottery. There are no guaranteed citadels.

i got (somewhat) Guaranteed cit shots at UK BB at the exact center of the ship at waterline , same with RUSS 100% cit shots everywhere 

only USN BB /Amagi / ((((izumo))) was immune to cits because it was complete RNG against USN BB

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4 minutes ago, Mohammad_S__AbuSafieh said:

so whats the point of brawling if those are meduim/long range cits hits only ???

also you cant into snipe completely when you're german ????????

Only a certain amount of ships are truly citadel immune in a brawl(Germans). The rest can still be citadelled with a bit of luck or if you bypass the main belt by making your shells go through the water. But in general even if you don't get a citadel and unless you aim stupidly low you are still rewarded with a good amount of damage.

2 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

There are no certain way to get a guaranteed citadel. All you can do is aim in the right area and pray to RNGesus.

 

If you do aim in the right area, fire and don't get a citadel, that's just the way things are. Every time you "pull the trigger" it's a lottery. There are no guaranteed citadels.

Agree to disagree. True that there is a throw of the dice when fired at broadsides at mid-long range, but in the long run good aim and prediction is rewarded with reliable damage and more citadels.

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1 minute ago, Mohammad_S__AbuSafieh said:

so whats the point of brawling if those are meduim/long range cits hits only ???

also you cant into snipe completely when you're german ????????

You still do a lot of damage if you score pen to casemate. 

 

Basically all the ship you mentioned have slightly exposed citadel on the water line, no turtle back , no fancy stuff. Just aim at the water line - in close range do not use binocular view just aim without zooming.

Here  are screenshots of all ships citadels:

 

Izumo

shot-19_08.13_23_27.09-0273.thumb.jpg.3c06b068c72f6734828771f8ff6d6ccc.jpg

 

Iowa

shot-19_08.13_23_27.24-0554.thumb.jpg.c40f87bc1a9072794932cc7b6c57baef.jpg

 

Montana

shot-19_08.13_23_27.38-0096.thumb.jpg.0255fcda140c040b090c9f7419728a24.jpg

 

North Carolina

shot-19_08.13_23_28.20-0886.thumb.jpg.15ba3bee2920fdc24d35f33a9c6fe53a.jpg

 

Amagi

shot-19_08.13_23_28.49-0792.thumb.jpg.91695ad9c2f9c26ff87b328cd03eb8bd.jpg

 

Finally , here is a link to the official wiki page explaining ballistics and armor penetration:  https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Gunnery_%26_Armor_Penetration

 

Good luck!

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1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

That you select the enemy you want to brawl with and do not go mindlessly forward

i'm doing that every game , but FOR ONCE i ambushed enemy Ncarolina (alone) with supporting t9 KRON and well only got 6 pens and complete 3 torps dmg but it was frustrating for me because NO CITS AT ALL 

3 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

That you know when to use your torps

you caught alone BB off gaurd

 

4 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

That you have extra fun with a secondary setup

nah m8 , ASM1 seems to do the magic against cruisers at 19KM range  , i always see 2 shells LANDS EXACTLY WHERE I AIM and the rest they get some dispersion 

 

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9 minutes ago, Mohammad_S__AbuSafieh said:

i got (somewhat) Guaranteed cit shots at UK BB at the exact center of the ship at waterline , same with RUSS 100% cit shots everywhere 

only USN BB /Amagi / ((((izumo))) was immune to cits because it was complete RNG against USN BB

RU and now the RN have pretty high unprotected citadel above the waterline. Same with Yamato / Musashi and Roma. 

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1 minute ago, Mohammad_S__AbuSafieh said:

i'm doing that every game , but FOR ONCE i ambushed enemy Ncarolina (alone) with supporting t9 KRON and well only got 6 pens and complete 3 torps dmg but it was frustrating for me because NO CITS AT ALL 

you caught alone BB off gaurd

 

nah m8 , ASM1 seems to do the magic against cruisers at 19KM range  , i always see 2 shells LANDS EXACTLY WHERE I AIM and the rest they get some dispersion 

 

- Wants to brawl in the Bismarck sisters.

- Not going for a secondary setup.

 

The second part is your main issue here IMO. If you want to brawl anything in the Bismarck class ships you want a secondary setup for maximum fun and honestly effectiveness. Especially with the HE pen buff on the 105 mm secondaries you will tear apart cruisers and cause serious damage to BB's including fires.

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2 minutes ago, Mohammad_S__AbuSafieh said:

i got (somewhat) Guaranteed cit shots at UK BB at the exact center of the ship at waterline , same with RUSS 100% cit shots everywhere 

only USN BB /Amagi / ((((izumo))) was immune to cits because it was complete RNG against USN BB

Doesn't matter. You shouldn't set up a play-style that relys on citadels since you can't count on them. More so in a "Gennie" since she doesn't have the broadsidewight for it. (4 800 kg vs. NCs 10 800 kg)

My advice is to stop obsessing over citadels and find out how to do reliable damage without brawling with higher tier BBs.

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6 minutes ago, Episparh said:

Basically all the ship you mentioned have slightly exposed citadel on the water line, no turtle back , no fancy stuff. Just aim at the water line - in close range do not use binocular view just aim without zooming.

i citadel IOWA/N carolina at range easily , the problem when you are FDG facing (lets say) Montana , what is your competitive point if you cant cit him at close range ?????? 

>inb4 secondaries 

secondaries are nice and all but are only good with consistent fire damage / finishing low HP ships other than that you cant rely on them to sink MONTANA 

i always see countless of videos where GK brawl montana and SHOOTING UNDER FRONTAL GUNS AND GETTING x4 cit ????

wheres the catch ????

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5 minutes ago, ollonborre said:

- Wants to brawl in the Bismarck sisters.

- Not going for a secondary setup.

 

The second part is your main issue here IMO. If you want to brawl anything in the Bismarck class ships you want a secondary setup for maximum fun and honestly effectiveness. Especially with the HE pen buff on the 105 mm secondaries you will tear apart cruisers and cause serious damage to BB's including fires.

brother this is GNES t7 german BB lolz

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12 minutes ago, ollonborre said:

Agree to disagree. True that there is a throw of the dice when fired at broadsides at mid-long range, but in the long run good aim and prediction is rewarded with reliable damage and more citadels.

True that good aim and knowledge helps, but it's in no way a guarantee, especially in a "Gennie" vs. T8s and T9s.

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6 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

Doesn't matter. You shouldn't set up a play-style that relys on citadels since you can't count on them. More so in a "Gennie" since she doesn't have the broadsidewight for it. (4 800 kg vs. NCs 10 800 kg)

My advice is to stop obsessing over citadels and find out how to do reliable damage without brawling with higher tier BBs.

so whats the meaning of the german BB then??

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Just now, Hanse77SWE said:

True that good aim and knowledge helps, but it's in no way a guarantee, especially in a "Gennie" vs. T8s and T9s.

you  always have those torps and only thing you need (ambush) , (surprise) , (weakend BB) , (patience) and this makes the perfect mix  for a good t9 game 

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1 minute ago, Mohammad_S__AbuSafieh said:

so whats the meaning of the german BB then??

  • Tanking
  • Moving forward without getting stopped
  • Taking out cruisers/DD while you tank BB
  • Taking out the BB at close quarters, if you can
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1 minute ago, Mohammad_S__AbuSafieh said:

so whats the meaning of the german BB then??

Mid to close range.

High rate of fire.

Secondaries.

Good armor with pretty safe citadel.

 

Go in fairly close, tank the enemy fire and just blast away with everything you got where you know you will penn.

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Just now, Mohammad_S__AbuSafieh said:

you  always have those torps and only thing you need (ambush) , (surprise) , (weakend BB) , (patience) and this makes the perfect mix  for a good t9 game 

Just few BBs have them. If you like torping - play DD. Or some cruisers with good torps like Yoshino.

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4 minutes ago, Mohammad_S__AbuSafieh said:

i citadel IOWA/N carolina at range easily , the problem when you are FDG facing (lets say) Montana , what is your competitive point if you cant cit him at close range ?????? 

>inb4 secondaries 

secondaries are nice and all but are only good with consistent fire damage / finishing low HP ships other than that you cant rely on them to sink MONTANA 

i always see countless of videos where GK brawl montana and SHOOTING UNDER FRONTAL GUNS AND GETTING x4 cit ????

wheres the catch ????

FDG as all German BB have very random dispersion. I suggest you to shot slightly above the water line with them as if the guns go DERP half of them will not go under the water and do nothing and as I said - a penetration  on citadel casemate hurts a lot , not as much as citadel but it's more consistent.

 

The catch is that in this videos you usually see something that happens once in a blue moon as their creators select one awesome game out of hundreds.

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2 minutes ago, Mohammad_S__AbuSafieh said:

you  always have those torps and only thing you need (ambush) , (surprise) , (weakend BB) , (patience) and this makes the perfect mix  for a good t9 game 

If your playing a german BB as a DD then you are doing it wrong.

"Weakened BB". Who's gonna do that for you?

"Patience" The game is only 20 minutes long. You don't have time to wait for a good opportunity. You have to make them yourself.

 

Plus those torplaunchers are very fragile so no rely on those too much either.

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3 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:
  • Tanking
  • Moving forward without getting stopped
  • Taking out cruisers/DD while you tank BB
  • Taking out the BB at close quarters, if you can

>tanking 

believe me most of games when i die tanking or doing good OL JOB the team lose 

>Moving forward without getting stopped

you cant do that in t9

>Taking out cruisers/DD while you tank BB

bruh GNES is specialised in that and i always do that

>Taking out the BB at close quarters, if you can

i can do that ONLY thanks to torps even against t9 BB only exception is musashi WELP

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11 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

True that good aim and knowledge helps, but it's in no way a guarantee, especially in a "Gennie" vs. T8s and T9s.

 

13 minutes ago, Mohammad_S__AbuSafieh said:

brother this is GNES t7 german BB lolz

Aha we are talking about the Gneis, my mistake. Still then my point about secondaries still stand. I could not make the guns work on that ship but with a secondary focused build you murder stuff when top tier and is a big pain for top tiers with turtleback, high speed and 8 km secondaries.

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