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T3ddyBear

WG you have got to teach your players

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WG, I know this is old hat but it is getting really silly now.

 

You have got to teach your players how to play this game, IN THE CLIENT, do not expect players to go to youtube, watch some CC's vids. This is your game, start acting like it.

 

This is becoming the norm.

 

There was a thread about bad DD players ruining the gameplay recently, it is not just the DD's, it is all classes.

 

TB.

 

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How.png.e981b39b35aafddc63eaf7a791c51a81.png

 

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Bad players who are invested in this game, will spend a lot of money to get their hand on things that may give them an advantage, no matter how small, as long they perceive it as such. 

 

So, the chances of WG teaching them is rather low. 

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Take a deep breath and repeat after me...

 

"WG don't give a phuq"

 

 

On a separate note, WG couldn't do anything about the problem even if they tried. Their ineptitude knows no bounds. They are the 35% WRers of game design. Just like the 35%ers they are far too inept to even remotely comprehend their own ineptitude. You can tell them they are doing it wrong, you can warn them of the consequences but in the end all that's left is for you to sit there shaking your head as they blunder into the pitfalls you just warned them of.

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34 minutes ago, T3ddyBear said:

You have got to teach your players how to play this game, IN THE CLIENT, do not expect players to go to youtube, watch some CC's vids. This is your game, start acting like it.

Too late anyway. Most players have already reached high tiers and either don't care to start learning, or think they know everything already anyway. I am still blown away if I see yet another 45%er stating it's his/her teams that always drag them down.

 

4 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

Take a deep breath and repeat after me...

 

"WG don't give a phuq"

 

 

On a separate note, WG couldn't do anything about the problem even if they tried. Their ineptitude knows no bounds. They are the 35% WRers of game design. Just like the 35%ers they are far too inept to even remotely comprehend their own ineptitude. You can tell them they are doing it wrong, you can warn them of the consequences but in the end all that's left is for you to sit there shaking your head as they blunder into the pitfalls you just warned them of.

Amen.

 

And to prove it this thread will soon be locked.

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The major skill part in this game is knowledge. A player needs a lot to become good. That's something, that can't Wargaming really teach. It needs a lot of experience and research of the player. Beside that WG offers a wiki and tutorial videos.

It's about the player, who have to be willing to learn that, also the player have to be capable for understanding the knowledge.

 

I would assume, that most bad players are casual players, who are not that much interested to learn so many things like armor layout, strategies, penetration capabilities.

Or that they are not, well, that smart to understand the importance of some stuff in this game.

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WG teaching someone how to play works until like t5 or t6, after that players should have enough experience to actually play the game properly.

 

Its like cooking. Having someone teach you to cook when you first start out is good, but if you have been cooking for 5 years and still suck at it, then its not the fact that nobody taught you, its your own fault.

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whole Problem could be fixed together with about 100 more of this game with one, one tiny simple addition:

 

SKILL-BASED-MATCHMAKING

which is a norm for basicly any online game out there, but well..... i guess that will never happen on wg games. introduce time limitly like for the amount of cvs in a game, but try to match peoles skill closer together. I‘m positive that most of the community would absolutely love to wait 30seconds long for a game if you then get a game which is not a total clown-fiesta

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On 8/13/2019 at 9:32 PM, Nocturnal_Scream said:

whole Problem could be fixed together with about 100 more of this game with one, one tiny simple addition:

 

SKILL-BASED-MATCHMAKING

which is a norm for basicly any online game out there, but well..... i guess that will never happen on wg games. introduce time limitly like for the amount of cvs in a game, but try to match peoles skill closer together. I‘m positive that most of the community would absolutely love to wait 30seconds long for a game if you then get a game which is not a total clown-fiesta

It’s good but not so practical, you would wait too long in queue for battle as a unicuum. And it’s not 30 sec every time. Sometimes can be few min (later in the night, afternoon or mornings) 

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Teaching players/people about the game sound all fine and dandy on paper, problem being is some just dont want or care to learn :Smile_sceptic:

 

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On 8/13/2019 at 7:05 PM, Saiyko said:

Too late anyway. Most players have already reached high tiers and either don't care to start learning, or think they know everything already anyway. I am still blown away if I see yet another 45%er stating it's his/her teams that always drag them down.

 

Amen.

 

And to prove it this thread will soon be locked.

But I don't think I ever say that, lol

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7 minutes ago, Major_Damage225 said:

Teaching players/people about the game sound all fine and dandy on paper, problem being is some just dont want or care to learn :Smile_sceptic:

 

On the flip side, some do and take longer than most

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On 8/13/2019 at 9:05 PM, Saiyko said:

Too late anyway. Most players have already reached high tiers and either don't care to start learning, or think they know everything already anyway. I am still blown away if I see yet another 45%er stating it's his/her teams that always drag them down.

 

Amen.

 

And to prove it this thread will soon be locked.

It started at 30-35% ers went up to 45% ers, I can see this quickly going up to include more 'problematic' categories. I don't think this is productive imo :) 

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13 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

On the flip side, some do and take longer than most

I know it takes me longer than most yee but even a thick skull like me eventually learns:Smile_veryhappy:

Problem is some that just dont care unfortunatly. 

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2 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

This sort of thread gets you sent to Gulag Comrade. 

hes already here...

 

1714625643_stalingulagagain.jpg.5b29268ffd9d20a1c16c9e1922de72fa.jpg

 

scat!

 

*runs before toineh mods can lock thread*

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On 8/13/2019 at 8:32 PM, Nocturnal_Scream said:

whole Problem could be fixed together with about 100 more of this game with one, one tiny simple addition:

 

SKILL-BASED-MATCHMAKING

which is a norm for basicly any online game out there, but well..... i guess that will never happen on wg games. introduce time limitly like for the amount of cvs in a game, but try to match peoles skill closer together. I‘m positive that most of the community would absolutely love to wait 30seconds long for a game if you then get a game which is not a total clown-fiesta

 

Unfortuunately. Not only is this NOT the Norm for Online Games.

But most of all its an Impossible System which has never even once Worked in any Online Game that tried to use it.

 

There is a whole Range of Problems.

 

1.

This kind of System can only possibly be used in a Game where you either Play 1 vs 1 or Clan vs Clan.

Because when you have Random Teams your own Influence is Heavily Reduced and thus the RNG Factor is Heavily Increased.

 

2.

How do you Define Skill. Because any Value other than Winrate will often result in worse Players getting it because they Focus on it but abandon the Team for it.

At the same time however you cant really use Winrate because your one out of 12 People Deciding that Winrate for you. And as much as some Elitist Hardcore Maniacs want to Deny it. It is very often the case that entirely without any connection to your own Skill. You can go with 70% or 30% Winrate for over a Week. Which then is never Balanced out.

 

So how do you even Decide how much Skill a Person has :) ?

 

3.

The System tends to Force itself into Ladder and League Systems.

Because you get Matched with Players of the same Skill Level. You tend to not be able to actually Remain in the High Skill Level.

Because no matter how good you are. When you are Matched with People that are just as Good. You will still Go back to 50% Winratio at some Point.

Meaning you have to make Leagues and basicly Rate Wins and Losses Higher Depending on the League.

But that Severely Limits the Playerbase you have Available to Play with.

This is why in many Games which use such a System. Only certain Ranges are able to Play at all at some Point.

In some Games this has become so Bad. That New Players who Start at the Lowest Rank. Have to Wait 20-30 Minutes for a Game because there is simply not enough Players to Open a Game for them.

Same for High Ranked Players of Course.

 

4.

And the Last Problem is. The more you Employ a System like that.

The More your Stats become completely Meaningless.

Because if your Bronze League Player who is constantly faced with Noobs and thus can Farm tons of Damage as others have same skill or worse than you. You get same Stats as that Guy in Platin Super Star League as he has to Fight for each Point of Damage against other Platin Super Star League Players :)

Meaning you end up with a System where you reduce everything to Winrate and thus League Membership.

 

 

 

 

On 8/13/2019 at 7:27 PM, T3ddyBear said:

WG, I know this is old hat but it is getting really silly now.

 

You have got to teach your players how to play this game, IN THE CLIENT, do not expect players to go to youtube, watch some CC's vids. This is your game, start acting like it.

 

This is becoming the norm.

 

There was a thread about bad DD players ruining the gameplay recently, it is not just the DD's, it is all classes.

 

TB.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

How.png.e981b39b35aafddc63eaf7a791c51a81.png

 

 

Wont Happen for 3 Reasons.

 

 

1.

There is no Ingame Tutorial that will possibly Teach you how to Play a PvP Team Game.

You just will never manage to make one. Because the Meta Changes based on Players Skills and Preferences.

2.

The Players NOT watching Video Tutorials and Checking Guides. Will just Skip Tutorials or just Click through them without giving a Care anyways.

Worse. Since alot of Skills in the Game need Time and Depend on Tier Level.

You would need to make Mandatory Tutorials every few Tiers and Ships.

Which would get Incredible Annoying for everyone. And would end up with People again just Skipping through it and Ignoring it.

3.

Alot, and I mean ALOT, of player Play for Fun. They dont want to Learn. They just want to Shut Down their Brain and have Fun without thinking about it.

And this wont Change no matter how many Tutorials you make.

Many Players actually know they are not Playing Correctly or that something else would have been better.

But they do it anyways. Because they just want to have Fun. Not Play Tactical and Try Hard to Win.

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@Sunleader your right on most parts. But:

 

No matter  the league or ladder, people that climb do so by carrying the team on their shoulders in solo q. To do so you haw to haw excessive game knowledge and good decision making skills. The rest is just practice.

Playing in a premade team doesn't necessarly mean that you are a better player - just a better team player than the rest of the random people in solo q.

I wouldn't sweat ower WR in a non @sports game. The path non professional @sport players with low self esteem take sometimes is just pitiful.

 

 

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At least some have 1 purple stat ?

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On 8/13/2019 at 8:06 PM, Pikkozoikum said:

The major skill part in this game is knowledge. A player needs a lot to become good. That's something, that can't Wargaming really teach.

 

This is why schools and universities don't work and no longer exist.

Oh wait. :Smile_facepalm:

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4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

1.

This kind of System can only possibly be used in a Game where you either Play 1 vs 1 or Clan vs Clan.

Because when you have Random Teams your own Influence is Heavily Reduced and thus the RNG Factor is Heavily Increased.

 

2.

How do you Define Skill. Because any Value other than Winrate will often result in worse Players getting it because they Focus on it but abandon the Team for it.

At the same time however you cant really use Winrate because your one out of 12 People Deciding that Winrate for you. And as much as some Elitist Hardcore Maniacs want to Deny it. It is very often the case that entirely without any connection to your own Skill. You can go with 70% or 30% Winrate for over a Week. Which then is never Balanced out.

1. Have you ever heard of the empirical law of large numbers?

 

2. Have you ever heard of the empirical law of large numbers?

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

3.

The System tends to Force itself into Ladder and League Systems.

Because you get Matched with Players of the same Skill Level. You tend to not be able to actually Remain in the High Skill Level.

Because no matter how good you are. When you are Matched with People that are just as Good. You will still Go back to 50% Winratio at some Point.

Meaning you have to make Leagues and basicly Rate Wins and Losses Higher Depending on the League.

But that Severely Limits the Playerbase you have Available to Play with.

This is why in many Games which use such a System. Only certain Ranges are able to Play at all at some Point.

In some Games this has become so Bad. That New Players who Start at the Lowest Rank. Have to Wait 20-30 Minutes for a Game because there is simply not enough Players to Open a Game for them.

Same for High Ranked Players of Course.

So you reduce the number of tiers and you could restrict certain tiers to certain skill levels. That is the intuition behind the tiers anyway. One of the key issues anyway is players thinking "I cannot manage to juggle with 3 balls, maybe I'll do better with torches and knifes."

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

4.

And the Last Problem is. The more you Employ a System like that.

The More your Stats become completely Meaningless.

Because if your Bronze League Player who is constantly faced with Noobs and thus can Farm tons of Damage as others have same skill or worse than you. You get same Stats as that Guy in Platin Super Star League as he has to Fight for each Point of Damage against other Platin Super Star League Players :)

Meaning you end up with a System where you reduce everything to Winrate and thus League Membership.

Yes, league membership would be the new "winrate". Why would that bother anybody? Winning is the key objective of the game. Who can sacrifise his ego for the team has proven to understand an important lesson in games, sports and sometimes life. The exakmple of some bronze league player farming noobs btw is misleading. His wr would pormote him to higher leagues where he faces people of comparable skill.

Maybe a player could sabotage his wins, so he stays in a low league, while skillfully farming players, but then again he would likely get less XP, due to a lower league bonus and if he manages to sabotage wins, he clearly belongs into little league.

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

1.

There is no Ingame Tutorial that will possibly Teach you how to Play a PvP Team Game.

You just will never manage to make one. Because the Meta Changes based on Players Skills and Preferences.

2.

The Players NOT watching Video Tutorials and Checking Guides. Will just Skip Tutorials or just Click through them without giving a Care anyways.

Worse. Since alot of Skills in the Game need Time and Depend on Tier Level.

You would need to make Mandatory Tutorials every few Tiers and Ships.

Which would get Incredible Annoying for everyone. And would end up with People again just Skipping through it and Ignoring it.

I guess we will need a quiz for such people:

 

Q. You spot a Pensacola at 8 km on a parallel course in your Nürnberg. What do you do?

A1. I shoot AP at the middle of the ship cause I can citadel it even with CL-caliber.

A2. I shoot HE, cause I can light multiple fires across his broadside.

A3. I go full broadside myself, cause I can use all my guns better, get blapped due to unfair bot-use and immediately open a ticket with WG-support.

A4. I immediately go for torps, cause at that range they do extra pen damage.

A5. I zip my fly, scratch my head and wonder why the WoWs-tab is blinking in my task bar.

 

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

3.

Alot, and I mean ALOT, of player Play for Fun. They dont want to Learn. They just want to Shut Down their Brain and have Fun without thinking about it.

And this wont Change no matter how many Tutorials you make.

Many Players actually know they are not Playing Correctly or that something else would have been better.

But they do it anyways. Because they just want to have Fun. Not Play Tactical and Try Hard to Win.

Then WG should make it worthwhile to learn or painful to not learn. I know some players that use standard accounts and just play low and mid-tiers, cause their results make playing high tiers costly.

If taking a cap single-handedly would give you +500 XP and the base +1500XP, can you imagine how all of a sudden the interest in taking caps would increase? Currently I see BBs moving 50m past a cap, ignoring it. Teamplay has to be rewarded more.

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39 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

1. Have you ever heard of the empirical law of large numbers?

 

2. Have you ever heard of the empirical law of large numbers?

So you reduce the number of tiers and you could restrict certain tiers to certain skill levels. That is the intuition behind the tiers anyway. One of the key issues anyway is players thinking "I cannot manage to juggle with 3 balls, maybe I'll do better with torches and knifes."

Yes, league membership would be the new "winrate". Why would that bother anybody? Winning is the key objective of the game. Who can sacrifise his ego for the team has proven to understand an important lesson in games, sports and sometimes life. The exakmple of some bronze league player farming noobs btw is misleading. His wr would pormote him to higher leagues where he faces people of comparable skill.

Maybe a player could sabotage his wins, so he stays in a low league, while skillfully farming players, but then again he would likely get less XP, due to a lower league bonus and if he manages to sabotage wins, he clearly belongs into little league.

I guess we will need a quiz for such people:

 

Q. You spot a Pensacola at 8 km on a parallel course in your Nürnberg. What do you do?

A1. I shoot AP at the middle of the ship cause I can citadel it even with CL-caliber.

A2. I shoot HE, cause I can light multiple fires across his broadside.

A3. I go full broadside myself, cause I can use all my guns better, get blapped due to unfair bot-use and immediately open a ticket with WG-support.

A4. I immediately go for torps, cause at that range they do extra pen damage.

A5. I zip my fly, scratch my head and wonder why the WoWs-tab is blinking in my task bar.

 

Then WG should make it worthwhile to learn or painful to not learn. I know some players that use standard accounts and just play low and mid-tiers, cause their results make playing high tiers costly.

If taking a cap single-handedly would give you +500 XP and the base +1500XP, can you imagine how all of a sudden the interest in taking caps would increase? Currently I see BBs moving 50m past a cap, ignoring it. Teamplay has to be rewarded more.

 

1+2.

Yep.

But its Completely Irrelevant to my Statement because many Players will never Actually Play each Ship in such Vast Numbers that this comes into effect.

Most People will Play maybe 50-100 Games per Ship. In Rare cases 200.

Thats nowhere near enough for Propability to Balance out Spikes from RNG.

 

And you cant Exactly wait with this Kind of Matchmaking for the Player to have 1000+ Games in the Ship you want to Match him with.

 

3.

So Basicly you want to Remove Access to Certain Ships from Players based on their Skill Level ?

Wow thats Hardcore. And will absolutely NEVER happen lol

 

4.

Well Mate. Sorry to Tell you. But actually this would Bother ALOT of People lol.

Especially if like you said above. You would not Permit Players outside of a Certain League to Play certain Ships :)

But even without that. This would end up being a Highly Discriminatory Factor in the Game and would piss off alot of People.

 

Needless to say that it would come with the other Problems I already Described there.

The Better and the Worse Leagues would constantly be Faced with Incredible Long Waiting Times due to Lack of Opponents.

 

Not to Mention. As Players Perform Vastly Different with Different Ships even within the same Class. You would need to basicly have to assign the Player a Different League for each Ship.

 

5.

Nice Quiz.

But you mocking the Problem wont Solve it :)

 

6.

And How exactly do you get this Message to the People which up to this Day dont even know that Damage on a DD will Earn more 4 times as much Exp than Damage on a BB ? :)

Mate. These People Shut Down their Brain to Play. They Play for Fun. Not for Rewards or to Win.

They dont give a Crab on how much Exp the Capture Point Gives em :P

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6 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

This is why schools and universities don't work and no longer exist.

Oh wait. :Smile_facepalm:

You compare the game to school and Uni? Lmfao. This is a game, you won't have anything from it except fun. Unlike university that can give you a job. 

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13 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

You compare the game to school and Uni?

 

Since apparently teaching and attempting to impart knowledge is useless, yes.

What applications are gained from those is irrelevant.

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