A way to introduce Shinano in the game

[wot_2016_gunner]

This idea came into my mind yesterday, and it deals with the old odd tier CVs

 

BTW, i don't know if WG if already working on it, but this is just my idea.

 

As it was teased, whenever the old odd tier carriers will be back in the game, it was teased with: the Zuiho at tier 6, Hiryu at tier 8 and Tahio at tier 10, which if fine to me. 

 

So, i was thinking, could Japan have two tier 4 carriers? To me it could.

 

My idea is: instead of up-tiering the old odd tier CVs, what about doun-tiering them, and chanigin the stats accordingly, so the new tree branch whould be like this: 

 

tier 4 - Zuiho

tier 6 - Hiryu

tier 8 - Tahio

tier 10 - Shinano

 

To me it makes sense for 2 reasons: first, it feels odd that the Tahio whould be at the same tier as her upgraded self (the Hakuryu is a Kai-Tahio class, "Kai" in Japanese means modified, upgraded) so it makes logical sense to have her at a lower tier, at least from a techinal point of view; the second reason is that i don't want the Shinano to be a premium ship, whenever she will the put into the game, i don't want the only other sistership of Yamato to be another premium; the Musashi had her justifications, because we already had the Yamato, she was still a BB, so it made perfect sense to be a premuim, (this is the sam thinking with Bismarck and Tirpitz, Gneisenau and Sharnhorst, Hipper and Prinz Eugen). I think that Shinano has to be a main line ship. 

 

Again, i don't know at what point is WG with the carriers the were removed, but at least, please, consider this idea.

 

[KillStealBoss]

Taiho on T8? Idk. 

It would be nice to introduce a T10 coal cv. Shinano would be great. 

[piet11111]

Well Shinano must be balanced and tiered according to her plane load-out just because she has a Yamato class hull does not automatically make her a tier X or even IX.

*edit i do not know what her actual load-out was.

[lovelacebeer]

It would be great to have the Shinano in game either as a coal ship or as part of an alternative line. 

 

Still my guess would be she will be done long after the re introduction of the old odd tier CVs simply because it's easier to reuse models they already created, than to make a new one. 

[wot_2016_gunner]

The Shinano was actually the tier 10 Japanese carrier when the game was still in Alfa test. 

Still, as you said @lovelacebeer, I whould be fine with that too. Plus, I can wait.

However, I think that the main issue with creating an alternative line is that for as much as you try, I don't think that there is a way to give CVs a different gameplay. I mean, you can change the weapons (from HE to AP, or the range of the torpedoes, or the way you do bombs) but other than that, I don't think you can do something else. Maybe Anti Submarine Warfare could be a thing, but that would be very limited in its use.

[wot_2016_gunner]

I've found this screenshot that i made with IL-2 Sturmovik 1946 (worth to check it out) just to show the comparison with other ships (they are not alligned, i eyeballed it)

 

 

From the left we have: 

 - IJN Ise (bugged)

 - IJN Nagato (which we have in game, so that already gives an idea)

 - IJN Hosho

 - IJN Shinano

 - IJN Hiryu

 - IJN Kai-Tahio aka Hakuryu

 - IJN Tahio

 - IJN Yamato

 - IJN Akizuki

 - IJN Shokaku (or the Zuikaku i don't remember)

 - IJN Akagi (converted sistership of the Amagi)

[NothingButTheRain]

Even though I really like this idea (and frankly there should be enough carrier designs for 3 IJN carrier lines at the least), I really wouldn't want more carriers in the game right now.

[wot_2016_gunner]

28 minuti fa, NothingButTheRain ha scritto:

Even though I really like this idea (and frankly there should be enough carrier designs for 3 IJN carrier lines at the least), I really wouldn't want more carriers in the game right now.

I know what you feel about CVs, and I'm of the same opinion that now is to early for more carries. But you are right, with Akagi and Unryu (similar to the Hiryu but of a different class) there are enough ship for 3 carrier lines.

[philjd]

1 hour ago, piet11111 said:

Well Shinano must be balanced and tiered according to her plane load-out just because she has a Yamato class hull does not automatically make her a tier X or even IX.

*edit i do not know what her actual load-out was.

Up to 50 aircraft - but more of a depot/maintenance role rather than strike carrier (large ones of the era carried roughly 100 - generalisation)

[artic_99]

I really would like to have shinano in the game. But shinano was in ww2 redesigned as a CV it had no large airgroup. It would make sense to make taiho T10 and shinano T8 or even make shinano a coal or steal ship. I'd prefer coal tho and T8. T10 is u realistic due to the small airgroup. Shinano just had 42 planes and 5 in reserve. That's T4 cv Niveau plane wise. I would rather suggest to have unryu class cvs as T10 if they  don't want taiho. 

[piet11111]

12 minutes ago, philjd said:

Up to 50 aircraft - but more of a depot/maintenance role rather than strike carrier (large ones of the era carried roughly 100 - generalisation)

 

6 minutes ago, artic_99 said:

I really would like to have shinano in the game. But shinano was in ww2 redesigned as a CV it had no large airgroup. It would make sense to make taiho T10 and shinano T8 or even make shinano a coal or steal ship. I'd prefer coal tho and T8. T10 is u realistic due to the small airgroup. Shinano just had 42 planes and 5 in reserve. That's T4 cv Niveau plane wise. I would rather suggest to have unryu class cvs as T10 if they  don't want taiho. 

 

Well with such a small amount of planes she is in my mind unsuited for tier X.

[artic_99]

Vor 1 Minute, piet11111 sagte:

 

 

Well with such a small amount of planes she is in my mind unsuited for tier X.

Yo. But it's still a large ship. It could get super strong planes to be fitted in T10. 

[BlackYeti]

9 minutes ago, artic_99 said:

Yo. But it's still a large ship. It could get super strong planes to be fitted in T10. 

T10 Saipan?

[artic_99]

Vor 2 Minuten, BlackYeti sagte:

T10 Saipan?

Basically. But I wouldn't like this. Maybe they could make her T8. A slightly better saipan as saipan is clearly to weak nowadays. Maybe also buff saipan a bit (regeneration time). 

[piet11111]

31 minutes ago, artic_99 said:

Yo. But it's still a large ship. It could get super strong planes to be fitted in T10. 

 

17 minutes ago, artic_99 said:

Basically. But I wouldn't like this. Maybe they could make her T8. A slightly better saipan as saipan is clearly to weak nowadays. Maybe also buff saipan a bit (regeneration time). 

 

Did the IJN have such super strong planes ? ( my knowledge of the IJN is almost non-existent except Yamato big and strong)

A tier 8 Saipan like carrier was also something i was thinking about plus it has the advantage of being easily made available to the players (in the form of a premium carrier in the shop) only thing i would want to know at this point is how where shinano's secondaries

[KillStealBoss]

2 hours ago, piet11111 said:

or even IX.

It can’t be a T9 cv

@wot_2016_gunner maybe they’ll have some fighters that give smoke for team.

45 minutes ago, artic_99 said:

Shinano just had 42 planes and 5 in reserve. That's T4 cv Niveau plane wise

Nah it’s +/- like Saipan has today. 

 

[artic_99]

Vor 1 Minute, piet11111 sagte:

 

 

Did the IJN have such super strong planes ? ( my knowledge of the IJN is almost non-existent except Yamato big and strong)

A tier 8 Saipan like carrier was also something i was thinking about plus it has the advantage of being easily made available to the players (in the form of a premium carrier in the shop) only thing i would want to know at this point is how where shinano's secondaries

8x2 127mm guns. 

[artic_99]

Tbh Japanese and US both don't had super heavy planes. All planes where roughly the same when it came to survivability. It's besically if hit dead. From that point of view you can give shinano "t12" planes. 

[KillStealBoss]

12 minutes ago, artic_99 said:

Tbh Japanese and US both don't had super heavy planes. All planes where roughly the same when it came to survivability. It's besically if hit dead. From that point of view you can give shinano "t12" planes. 

The Japanese planes were a bit worse construction tbh.

[artic_99]

Vor 1 Minute, MacArthur92 sagte:

The Japanese planes were a bit worse construction tbh.

Just outdated. They couldn't get their industry to mass produce newer models. Therefor they had only planes from 1942 (technically) they had prototypes for better designs. But they couldn't be mass produced so they stuck with 1942 planes while the US mass produced 1945 planes. The zero was a great planes for its time tbh. Simelar to the Messerschmitt bf 109. Both germany and Japan had better designs but simply couldn't mass produce them. 

[KillStealBoss]

28 minutes ago, artic_99 said:

Just outdated. They couldn't get their industry to mass produce newer models. Therefor they had only planes from 1942 (technically) they had prototypes for better designs. But they couldn't be mass produced so they stuck with 1942 planes while the US mass produced 1945 planes. The zero was a great planes for its time tbh. Simelar to the Messerschmitt bf 109. Both germany and Japan had better designs but simply couldn't mass produce them. 

The opposite of the Soviet Union. 

[wot_2016_gunner]

For the aircrafts, this is an extract from Wikipedia

 

The remainder of the hangar space would have held up to 120 replacement aircraft for other carriers and land bases.

[El2aZeR]

39 minutes ago, wot_2016_gunner said:

The remainder of the hangar space would have held up to 120 replacement aircraft for other carriers and land bases.

 

*disassembled in small parts for transportation.

These were not ready reserves.

 

Shinano would make for a poor T6 CV at best. Even her soft stats practically ensure she'd suck at T8 or, god forbid, T10.

[artic_99]

Vor 1 Stunde, El2aZeR sagte:

 

*disassembled in small parts for transportation.

These were not ready reserves.

 

Shinano would make for a poor T6 CV at best. Even her soft stats practically ensure she'd suck at T8 or, god forbid, T10.

Disassembled would mean... The reaload of planes would actually make sense xD

[El2aZeR]

10 minutes ago, artic_99 said:

Disassembled would mean... The reaload of planes would actually make sense xD

 

Except that's actually just putting aircraft from the hangar on deck and prepping them for combat.

 

Besides, even if you artificially enhance her reserves Shinano would still end up with garbage soft stats that make her unsuitable to replace Taiho or even Hiryu on the tech tree. There's a reason why she never made it beyond alpha.