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Luis_Crespo

Is Cleveland still playable?

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Hi guys. The reason for this post is I cant make this thing work properly.

Granted Im not extremely good in cruisers (nor in the other classes, by the way), but I suck very hard with the Cleveland, and I would like to know your opinion and/or suggestions on how to git gud in it.

This is my build.

 

Thanks in advance.

Cleveland.jpg

Cleveland2.jpg

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Cleveland ist still a good ship but she struggles in T10 matches on some maps. It's a ship that needs islands to use it's full potential. Of course you can also play her with an open-water/kiting style but it's more difficult than using islands as cover.

 

About your skills and modules:

The Upgrades look fine, you could consider to replace Aiming Systems Mod with AA Mod but both of them work fine.

 

Your captain skills are ok but CE is one of the most important skills for cruisers, especially light cruisers that have no or almost no armour. The problem here ist that you need at least a 14 point captain to use the ship's full potential. I'd recommend to reskill the commander as soon as you reach 14 points. The important skills (in my opinion) are (in the following order): PT, AR, SI, CE, IFHE

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You need Concealment Expert to get the most out of it, basic 14 point captain build is: PT, AR, SI, CE & IFHE.

 

Getting your concealment down to 9.1km (I think it is) is essential to helping you get into the best positions and allows you to radar DDs almost as soon as they spot you.

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yeah the build isnt the problem (outside the mentioned lack of CE), and the ship's fine too - so it must be something about how you play her. Which you havent given us an intel on so far... you could consider giving us a replay or two, that'd probably get you the best advice.

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Imo you should drop SI for CE when you get your next captain point (if you play CBs, you can still reset for free)

Cleveland has no heal, so i think you can drop it. You lose 1 Radar/Hydro, but if you use premium consumables you should be fine. You could drop DE instead, if you want to transfer that captain on the Seattle at some point, since Seattle has Heal so you get more out of it.

 

As @Tyrendian89 said, post a couple of replays, its mostly a problem of the playstyle.

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As others have said, drop either SI or DE (depends on what you deem more valuable, but if you're gonna keep that captain for Seattle/Worcester definitely drop DE) for CE once you get another point on your captain. I also prefer to use the acceleration upgrade instead of the ruddershift one as you're gonna be stationary/slow speed a lot, but that's probably more down to personal preference.

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I disagree on having CE on Cleveland. I've played mine ever since it was tier VIII on a 19p captain without CE.

And this ship does just fine without it, as you'll be sitting behind cover most of the time anyways. 

So, imo, the most important 4 pointer is indeed IFHE. 

 

Granted, my current build is maybe a bit trollish on AA ( should probably drop one 4 pointer and BF to get your 2 three pointers ) but I play just fine with this build.

Cleve.thumb.jpg.87587e808aade22b507fce88352680b6.jpg

 

As for the modules, this is my setup: I hardly tend to lose guns anyways and losing AA mounts was more detrimental these last patches:

Cleve2.jpg.ef4ec0cc43a7d377448bd1ca7b84b9b5.jpg

 

All this to show you that, imo, Cleve is very flexible in how you kit it out and that there are no real must haves apart from IFHE and PT imo.

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1 hour ago, 159Hunter said:

I disagree on having CE on Cleveland. I've played mine ever since it was tier VIII on a 19p captain without CE.

And this ship does just fine without it, as you'll be sitting behind cover most of the time anyways. 

So, imo, the most important 4 pointer is indeed IFHE. 

 

Granted, my current build is maybe a bit trollish on AA ( should probably drop one 4 pointer and BF to get your 2 three pointers ) but I play just fine with this build.

Cleve.thumb.jpg.87587e808aade22b507fce88352680b6.jpg

 

As for the modules, this is my setup: I hardly tend to lose guns anyways and losing AA mounts was more detrimental these last patches:

Cleve2.jpg.ef4ec0cc43a7d377448bd1ca7b84b9b5.jpg

 

All this to show you that, imo, Cleve is very flexible in how you kit it out and that there are no real must haves apart from IFHE and PT imo.

I think CE is very important for all ships, so important infact, that WG should just remove the skill. Ofcourse its more important in a DD but still. The whole skill tree should have had a rework, some ships cant get enough skills, like Gearing, Grozovoi etc, while ships like Zao, doesnt really need anything after 10 points. Ofcourse it helps, but not nearly as much as it does in a Gearing

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5 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

I disagree on having CE on Cleveland. I've played mine ever since it was tier VIII on a 19p captain without CE.

And this ship does just fine without it, as you'll be sitting behind cover most of the time anyways. 

So, imo, the most important 4 pointer is indeed IFHE. 

 

Granted, my current build is maybe a bit trollish on AA ( should probably drop one 4 pointer and BF to get your 2 three pointers ) but I play just fine with this build.

Cleve.thumb.jpg.87587e808aade22b507fce88352680b6.jpg

 

As for the modules, this is my setup: I hardly tend to lose guns anyways and losing AA mounts was more detrimental these last patches:

Cleve2.jpg.ef4ec0cc43a7d377448bd1ca7b84b9b5.jpg

 

All this to show you that, imo, Cleve is very flexible in how you kit it out and that there are no real must haves apart from IFHE and PT imo.

AFT is worth exactly nothing on Cleveland. Not even for 6 km secondaries. But certainly not for AA. Absolutely no reason to not get CE.

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Loved this ships at tier 6, back then it was my fav ship by far.  Everything about it (people underestimated d it's AP massively).

 

Not played it since it moved to tier 8 so don't really know.  But CE and IFHE is a given IMHO.

 

They see tier 10 MM, which to me is a no no straight the way.  Not for a ship with short range, squashy armour and hill reliant. It barley holds it own on it's own tier (Please see CB's). It's connon fodder in tier 10 games. 

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6 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

I disagree on having CE on Cleveland. I've played mine ever since it was tier VIII on a 19p captain without CE.

And this ship does just fine without it, as you'll be sitting behind cover most of the time anyways. 

So, imo, the most important 4 pointer is indeed IFHE. 

 

Granted, my current build is maybe a bit trollish on AA ( should probably drop one 4 pointer and BF to get your 2 three pointers ) but I play just fine with this build.

Cleve.thumb.jpg.87587e808aade22b507fce88352680b6.jpg

 

As for the modules, this is my setup: I hardly tend to lose guns anyways and losing AA mounts was more detrimental these last patches:

Cleve2.jpg.ef4ec0cc43a7d377448bd1ca7b84b9b5.jpg

 

All this to show you that, imo, Cleve is very flexible in how you kit it out and that there are no real must haves apart from IFHE and PT imo.

 

Dear god that's AA built (like my old one used to be on tier 6).

 

But back then you was basically a heavy cruiser and saw more CV's.  A Enterprise will still hit you now even with that lot. 

 

Special Defensive AA mod is also iffy with the rework apparently, Why do we need duration now? I still have it on the Kidd but i'm not sure i really need it to be honest.

 

But its one of the most adaptable ships there is.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

 

Dear god that's AA built (like my old one used to be on tier 6).

 

But back then you was basically a heavy cruiser and saw more CV's.  A Enterprise will still hit you now even with that lot. 

 

Special Defensive AA mod is also iffy with the rework apparently, Why do we need duration now? I still have it on the Kidd but i'm not sure i really need it to be honest.

 

But its one of the most adaptable ships there is.

 

 

Nah mate. Not in 0.8.7 incoming soon. 

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13 hours ago, Luis_Crespo said:

Hi guys. The reason for this post is I cant make this thing work properly.

Granted Im not extremely good in cruisers (nor in the other classes, by the way), but I suck very hard with the Cleveland, and I would like to know your opinion and/or suggestions on how to git gud in it.

This is my build.

 

Thanks in advance.

Cleveland.jpg

Cleveland2.jpg

Cleveland is still pretty good in current meta.

 

I'd suggest the following:

On your commander I'd keep PT and AR and also keep SI and DE, but switch the IFHE skill to CE and try to do most of your damage by setting fires.

FOr the modules I'd suggest switching out the ruddershift for the module that increases acceleration when stationary.

If you want, you could switch out the accuracy upgrade for exstra flak clouds. Not that the extra flak clouds make THAT much of a difference but more because the extra increase in accuracy is basiclaly not gonna improve your performance whatsoever anyway.

 

My current playstyle is by setting lots and lots of fires and using islands in someone agressive (and sometimes too risky)  positions and use the island to wiggle around to play the Cleveland game of try to remain unspotted when sitting near an island (and this is where the acceleration upgrade shines) try to get your guns to be able to hit them (so try to shootr targets that are relatively far away) use the island to deflect enemy shells (which also makes the acceleration module shine).

 

Of course you'd miss out on the IFHE benefits, but the skill set I just showed you will enable you do do a lot of damage with a captain that doesn't have enough skillpoints to use both IFHE and CE.

 

EDIT:

If you really want to use both IFHE and DE, I'd suggest you either remove SI (and adapt your playstyle to use your consumables a lot more sparcely and try to time it right, so to say) or even remove CE (and adapt your playstyle to refrain from being in open water as much as you can, as islands will make your lack of CE much less relevant).

 

It's all doable imo, but any change will require some changes to your playstyle if you want to remain effective in some way.

 

And Cleveland is one of those ships which can be made decently effective, even without having enough skillpoints to get all the skills you would optimally want for Cleve.

 

Cleve is :fish_cute_2:

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I just ran a battle in it to check, I haven't played it in ages, once my favorite cruiser. Sure it's playable, but it does need good teamates and a bit of luck when uptiered. Edit: this is with a 10 pnt captain, no IHFE yet, I opted for CE first since it's so vulnourable in uptiered battles. Notice the 43k fire damage dealt.

 

shot-19_08.09_15_48.31-0004.thumb.jpg.9b7edd372e502da12c8e3c8c066e95c7.jpg.shot-19_08.09_15_48.42-0618.thumb.jpg.21bd89154ed5ba01ee7a0a80e4d09e22.jpgshot-19_08.09_15_48.36-0996.thumb.jpg.429461781fcba8c90f991b25a3ba247b.jpg 

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Thanks you all a lot guys. I will try to enable replays to post a couple of them as required. I also suspect there is something wrong with my playstyle.

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3 hours ago, Redcap375 said:

Loved this ships at tier 6, back then it was my fav ship by far.  Everything about it (people underestimated d it's AP massively).

 

Not played it since it moved to tier 8 so don't really know.  But CE and IFHE is a given IMHO.

 

They see tier 10 MM, which to me is a no no straight the way.  Not for a ship with short range, squashy armour and hill reliant. It barley holds it own on it's own tier (Please see CB's). It's connon fodder in tier 10 games. 

 

My 2p is that a lot of the basic in-game physics are built around making 6" guns work at mid tiers but not higher ones, the moment you start trying to fit them into T8-10 ships you start to conflict with fundamental design decisions made 4+ years ago and have the mother of all balancing problems to solve.

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 @NothingButTheRain @Redcap375 @Cagliostro_chan @WarburtonLee I respect your comments ppl, but I remain in my position that IFHE >>> CE on Cleveland and that, if you know maps and how to position, you don't need CE per se. 

While my build is most certainly trollish (as I've stated, but worked wonders in the past CV meta) I get very good results with them so I see no need to get CE (but will respec based on the upcoming AA changes into more flexibility with the 3-pointers). 

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21 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

 @NothingButTheRain @Redcap375 @Cagliostro_chan @WarburtonLee I respect your comments ppl, but I remain in my position that IFHE >>> CE on Cleveland and that, if you know maps and how to position, you don't need CE per se. 

While my build is most certainly trollish (as I've stated, but worked wonders in the past CV meta) I get very good results with them so I see no need to get CE (but will respec based on the upcoming AA changes into more flexibility with the 3-pointers). 

I just did 3 Cleveland battles for the golden snow flake stuff, and I get decent results without IHFE but with CE in tier X heavy battles. Shattering is frustrating, but again I got 45k in fire damage on tier X battleships, which makes up for the shitty penetration. I think it's up to preference. I don't have IHFE yet due to a low point cpt, but will get it once I get my next 4 points.

 

I must say it's range is very frustrating at tier X. Especially when ALL 3 battles I just played were tier X heavy, and you know tier X players, most of them are playing like a 98 old grandma: Deaf, blind, in need of diapers and passive. A short range low armor bottom tiered ship like the Cleveland takes way too much work to make it succesfull in this tier 8 MM pewp pit. WG :Smile_sceptic:

 

Conclusion: yes it can work, but no thanks.

 

shot-19_08.09_16_53.29-0107.thumb.jpg.4030b2b724e9f7357c85e3c17db3c246.jpgshot-19_08.09_16_53.34-0702.thumb.jpg.23cd924e4b2e07d85a296f3fc2a46d27.jpgshot-19_08.09_16_53.38-0112.thumb.jpg.59960668546064771609d5a4db344bf7.jpg

 

This is my build. It's wonky, but hey, so is MM. I don't really need SI, I'd take DE over it since it has no heal. The DefAA mod 1 is pretty useless too in this meta, especially when meeting no or tier X carriers.

 

shot-19_08.09_17_05.32-0147.thumb.jpg.493daf9a3a723b7b8087807834142d85.jpgshot-19_08.09_17_06.30-0889.thumb.jpg.cc9928a113588eda4ee4db0fbf064bb3.jpg

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34 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

 @NothingButTheRain @Redcap375 @Cagliostro_chan @WarburtonLee I respect your comments ppl, but I remain in my position that IFHE >>> CE on Cleveland and that, if you know maps and how to position, you don't need CE per se. 

While my build is most certainly trollish (as I've stated, but worked wonders in the past CV meta) I get very good results with them so I see no need to get CE (but will respec based on the upcoming AA changes into more flexibility with the 3-pointers). 

 

20 minutes ago, Europizza said:

I just did 3 Cleveland battles for the golden snow flake stuff, and I get decent results without IHFE but with CE in tier X heavy battles. Shattering is frustrating, but again I got 45k in fire damage on tier X battleships, which makes up for the shitty penetration. I think it's up to preference. I don't have IHFE yet due to a low point cpt, but will get it once I get my next 4 points.

 

I must say it's range is very frustrating at tier X. Especially when ALL 3 battles I just played were tier X heavy, and you know tier X players, most of them are playing like a 98 old grandma: Deaf, blind, in need of diapers and passive. A short range low armor bottom tiered ship like the Cleveland takes way too much work to make it succesfull in this tier 8 MM pewp pit. WG :Smile_sceptic:

 

Conclusion: yes it can work, but no thanks.

 

 

 

This is my build. It's wonky, but hey, so is MM. I don't really need SI, I'd take DE over it since it has no heal. The DefAA mod 1 is pretty useless too in this meta, especially when meeting no or tier X carriers.

 

 

I think what we can conclude from that is that good players can make good ships work even with arguably suboptimal builds, because they have the knowledge to adapt to what they're lacking. So much for "mandatory skills" eh? :Smile_teethhappy:

If you two are up for it, maybe just FOR SCIENCE you can revert your setups for a few matches (so hunter drops IFHE for CE and Pizza gets IFHE but no CE) and see how different your performances end up being? :cap_haloween:

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I used to truly suck with the Cleveland. I ended up hating the damn thing and very nearly sold it. Could not for the life of me get it to work. So I took my almost 14 p captain from it. And then recently I played it just to get the first win 10 tokens and with a 5 pt captain at that. 

And I found out what everyone has been telling everyone all the time. It is all about the positioning!! I found the right spot in battle after battle and contributet to the team by area/cap radar controll. Grinding damage work on bbs an other cls by firing over islands without hardly beeing spotted and giving dds and tanking bbs an aa umbrella. Cleveland still is tough even for t10 cvs but it melts t8 planes! 

But it has maybe 2-3 spots on each map where it excells. If you are caught EVERYONE will shoot the Cleveland!!!

And to make it easier to reach that spot I think CE is important and to increase dsmage ifhe is important. 

But as I said only the last matches has been good and I finally found out why people like it so much!

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2 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

 @NothingButTheRain @Redcap375 @Cagliostro_chan @WarburtonLee I respect your comments ppl, but I remain in my position that IFHE >>> CE on Cleveland and that, if you know maps and how to position, you don't need CE per se. 

While my build is most certainly trollish (as I've stated, but worked wonders in the past CV meta) I get very good results with them so I see no need to get CE (but will respec based on the upcoming AA changes into more flexibility with the 3-pointers). 

I didn't say replace IFHE with CE. I said replace AFT. AFT is a waste of 4 points, because:

  • Whoever runs consistently into flak bursts will lose planes in two bursts at most, AFT or not.
  • Cleveland has defAA that makes flak bursts insta-kill anyway and it cannot even slot out of that, so you will always have defAA anyway.
  • Anyone not flying into flak (aka any CV with an inkling of competence) will not care what damage flak bursts do.
  • Next patch the continuous damage will get nerfed and flak bursts get buffed even further under defAA. so, it's absolutely pointless to beef your flak bursts to do like 5k damage or whatnot, if planes don't even have 2k hp most of the time.

 

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14 minutes ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

I didn't say replace IFHE with CE. I said replace AFT. AFT is a waste of 4 points, because:

  • Whoever runs consistently into flak bursts will lose planes in two bursts at most, AFT or not.
  • Cleveland has defAA that makes flak bursts insta-kill anyway and it cannot even slot out of that, so you will always have defAA anyway.
  • Anyone not flying into flak (aka any CV with an inkling of competence) will not care what damage flak bursts do.
  • Next patch the continuous damage will get nerfed and flak bursts get buffed even further under defAA. so, it's absolutely pointless to beef your flak bursts to do like 5k damage or whatnot, if planes don't even have 2k hp most of the time.

 

Only case where AFT on US CL makes at least hint of sense is when said captain spends his holidays on Atlanta

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1 hour ago, OldPappy said:

I used to truly suck with the Cleveland. I ended up hating the damn thing and very nearly sold it. Could not for the life of me get it to work

And there's a premium version of it called Montpelier :Smile_veryhappy:

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3 hours ago, MacArthur92 said:

And there's a premium version of it called Montpelier :Smile_veryhappy:

In which I would no doubt premiumly suck in!!😌

What is the difference between them?

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