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HMS_Kilinowski

The mind-set of the 40-percenter

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For over a year now, I have repeatedly felt this "car crash"-mix of *self-censored* and fascination with the high-volume-low-stats-player.

 

I am not talking about the usual slightly below average player, but about the extremes. Also I am not trying to analyse how they play, which mistakes they might make and speculate on their intelligence. Mind, this topic is not supposed to deviate into a rant.

 

I want to try to understand, what motivates these players. It is a phenomenon, it cannot be denied or dismissed. There are players who do not only play bad, they do so over years, over thousands of battles, sometimes tens of thousands of battles. They witnessed almost any possible situation, yet, their play doesn't improve or adapt.

 

Typical features of such players are winrates around 40% or below, several thousands of battles and damage numbers below 25k hp, depending on what tiers and ship types they prefer. Some of them even have invested a considerable amount of money into premium ships. Some of them appear to play up to 30 battles per day on average and have played hundreds of battles in a single Ranked season, only to end up in the middle ranks.

 

The confusing/fascinating/irritating aspect is, that they stick to an activity, that cannot be rewarding. They keep losing battles, they most of the time are bottom of their team, they are criticised, even insulted regularly. Still something gives them joy. Not the joy to have you play a battle every now and then, but for hours a day. I cannot understand this mind-set, cause for me in any game there is some sort of sport that drives you to do well, that makes you want to win, to not give an inch to whoever is opposing you. To fail repatedly would make me quit or drive me mad. Yet these players seem to be motivated by something else.

 

Do they have an agenda? Do they just yolo in randoms like so many do in coops during the snowflake event, trying to min-max-their grinds? Do they just like to look at the ships in port and the battles are the inconvenient way to unlock them, if you cannot buy them? Are these players maybe young kids or people who don't grasp the concept of the game and just find it entertaining to see the ships moving around, while not really caring about, what is happening.

 

My personal theory:

Many of these players don't care for results in the first place, they are collectors. They want to min-max their number of ships in port. So they do some limited damage, trying to max their XP while not taking too much time for each battle. They get destroyed after around 15k dmg. They don't read or notice the chat or watch the battle once they are destroyed. They immediately jump into the next ship, going through 6-8 battles per hour. Each battle yields 400 baseXP, which isn't much, but the pure volume of battles gets them 2500-3000 base XP per hour.

 

Obviously there are players that don't fit that description, that play the same ship over and over without grinding or stay to watch the battle and comment.

 

So what do you think?

 

What are your theories on these players?

What motivates them?

Can you understand that mind-set? Do you share it?

Is there a way to get them more engaged to play the objective or to bridge the gap between very contradicting mind-sets?

 

Edit (10 August 2019):

 

There have been some concerns about this discussion having the potential to offend players. So I want to make it absolutely clear: Forum rules apply. No naming and shaming. In fact let it be said, I don't want to read judgmental statements about players or player archetypes. I want us to share insights on the motivation of said players as diverse as they may be.

 

If a player plays in a certain way it may well be there is a legitimate and harmless explanation. It does not change the fact this mind-set may be in conflict to the expectations of the more serious players.

The focus should be to understand these motivations in the first step and maybe come up with suggestions, how to address these motivations, to get everybody what he wants in our liberal way of living freedoms as long as they do not limit other peoples legitimate freedoms disproportionately.

 

As there have been many replies up to this point, I will try to implement them into my statement later today as sort of an orientation for the further direction. Please everybody stay constructive and objective. Thanks so far for your participation.

 

Edit (12 August 2019):

let me quote the following instructional post, as some posters may overread it when immediately jumping from this introduction to their answer.

On 8/11/2019 at 1:26 PM, CptMinia said:

Right, I've cleaned up the thread since it actually interests me and having talked with the original poster HMS_Kilinowski I find their dedication to this topic admirable enough to give this thread another chance. Please do not make me regret this decision, post with good intentions and with constructive, relevant points.

 

Let me make it clear, forum rules apply. This thread is to discuss the potential explanations of why you feel there may be a high volume of low-stats players in world of warships. This is not a thread to discuss, state, name or shame individuals or groups of people. Posts which are nonconstructive, insulting or irrelevant will be hidden and sanctions could be given.

 

Talking about game mechanics or features which you feel could be responsible to low-stat players is what we're looking for here. Keep it about the game, not the people. I know it doesn't sound easy, but please be cautious. Remember that everyone who conforms to the rules is allowed to play.

 

Kindest regards,

                             CptMinia.

I think we are all grateful for CptMinia's dedication and also want to respect the outlined rules of discussion. Please stick to them. Thanks.

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[RNSF]
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4 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

So what do you think?

Mate, stop looking into stats and live happy after.  Or at least only look at yours and try to improve. 

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Asking that question is pretty much the same as asking why low budget tv-shows exists and who watches them to be more profitable than quality.

Some just mindlessly consume and are happy with the simplest things. Some even have their TV on to sleep. (well unlikely with WoWS but it shows the direction)

They just want to sail around those famous or good looking ship they fancy and watch their guns go boom.

I kind of understand it in theory but couldn't fathom how to enjoy this.

No there is no way to make them play better as you can't force people to learn and it should be obvious that they don't bother.

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[TORAZ]
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Attempting to understand :etc_swear:s only leads to depression and madness.

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6 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

So what do you think?

 

What are your theories on these players?

What motivates them?

Can you understand that mind-set? Do you share it?

Is there a way to get them more engaged to play the objective or to bridge the gap between very contradicting mind-sets?

My theories on these players are that they arent interested in playing a multiplayer game with others. They play randoms because it gives them more xp per battle than any coop battle would.

They're probably playing to unwind after a long day, or to collect as many ships as possible, or because they like the cinematic aspect of wows. It could be anything.

I understand the mindset but I do not share it because I cant play a game just for fun. Maybe when I'm playing tictactoe with my little nephew but when I'm playing a computer game I want to understand how it works, how I can get good at it and how I can win.

How to get them more engaged? Exponentially increase the rewards as you gain more xp. Like a multiplier.

Want to get X3 credits and commander xp? Get yourself 2000 base xp.

Oh you only got 500 base because you yolo'ed and died after 3 minutes? Here, have X0,1 credits and commander xp. Make it clear to all players that playing for the team aka getting good yields more rewards than spamming games.

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I think that the players in question aren't really playing the game as you or I would understand it. For them WoWS is not a competitive pastime but rather merely a form of entertainment akin to an interactive movie where they can imagine that they are on the bridge of an iconic ship from history.

 

Where we have all sorts of stuff going through our heads whilst playing - concealment ranges, gun ranges, where's the radar, what DDs do they have, where are they likely to be, who can I engage and who should I not etc etc.

 

For those players their thought process can be summed up as "Me sail big ships make big guns go boom!"

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10 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

They immediately jump into the next ship, going through 6-8 battles per hour. Each battle yields 400 baseXP, which isn't much, but the pure volume of battles gets them 2500-3000 base XP per hour.

 

This, i even came across people who accnowledged this ( @GarrusBrutus  remembers:Smile_trollface: )

Spoiler

Picture taking while writing LULZ

image.png.f97ad4e9cccb215b83d33a947190c695.png

I made my own math, and it seems to be favourable for them to actually play like this. They wont invest 15 mins into a game only to get a mediocre win or loss. Die fast, get your 300-400 XP regardless.

 

However, once they reach T10, i dont see a reason for this anymore as they arent grinding anything... well some modules and ofc LMs, but this cant be the reason there. Guess they just like to keep on playing like that :cap_old:

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As a former 43%er this game is hard to understand and I got better fast when I started engaging with this forum.  The game doesn’t really have good feedback loops to pick up on when you play badly, you have to know a bit to know how to improve.

 

If you seriously are interested in how they think you could do worse than looking at my first post asking for advice.... 

 

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Well as a former 45% winrate player in world of tanks (now 52% after 19k games and 55% in this game after 2k games) i mostly just spammed battle and drove my tank around shooting at things.

 

Yes i was so brain dead that i remember on particular match where i was in my KV-1 on erlenberg back in 2013 and fired maybe 4 shots and then died right in the middle.

 

I also had it zoomed out all the way for some reason. I also was stuck when a certain zoom function when i got back, once in my arl 44.

 

I never considered getting better untill i (somehow judged correctly) to pull back from this superpersh and kill him in a 1-on-1 duel in my T-34-2 on ruinberg. He mention my winrate and xvm and i checked both things, then i found out i was terrible and was rushing up the tiers, so i decided to take things more slowly after that before i got comfortable.

 

I was never aware of the mechanics in depth, angling, how important map control was etc. untill well that moment. Oddly enough it gave me more of insentive to play the game along with gnomefathers and had the balance on world of tanks stayed relatively decent i would of most likely have 40k+ games by now.

 

but yeah everything i learnt was outside of world of tanks itself, the wiki, jingles (when he actually bothered to do tank reviews and offer decent tips), quickybaby and sirfoch.

 

makes me wonder how many peeps would be suprised to see me as 45%'er lol.

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19 minutes ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

If you stare into the abyss for too long, it may stare back at you. I'd stop while you still can.

First I catch you quoting Marx, and now Nietzsche?
This colides with my mental picture of a common uneducated weeb I nourished for so long, please stop.

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4 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Well as a former 45% winrate player in world of tanks (now 52% after 19k games and 55% in this game after 2k games) i mostly just spammed battle and drove my tank around shooting at things.

 

Yes i was so brain dead that i remember on particular match where i was in my KV-1 on erlenberg back in 2013 and fired maybe 4 shots and then died right in the middle.

 

I also had it zoomed out all the way for some reason. I also was stuck when a certain zoom function when i got back, once in my arl 44.

 

I never considered getting better untill i (somehow judged correctly) to pull back from this superpersh and kill him in a 1-on-1 duel in my T-34-2 on ruinberg. He mention my winrate and xvm and i checked both things, then i found out i was terrible and was rushing up the tiers, so i decided to take things more slowly after that before i got comfortable.

 

I was never aware of the mechanics in depth, angling, how important map control was etc. untill well that moment. Oddly enough it gave me more of insentive to play the game along with gnomefathers and had the balance on world of tanks stayed relatively decent i would of most likely have 40k+ games by now.

 

but yeah everything i learnt was outside of world of tanks itself, the wiki, jingles (when actually bothered to do tank reviews and offer decent tips), quickybaby and sirfoch.

 

makes me wonder how many peeps would be suprised to see me as 45%'er lol.

Same as you but in wows, i sailed around being an utter idiot until someone mentioned my winrate. Guess thats what triggered me, i didnt even know winrate existed, so thats when i went to youtube and searched for some wows tips. I started playing WOT after wows, but its a whole different game, map knowledge is everything. But since ive already watched some youtube videos i wasnt that bad for a noob, and im around 53% wins there. Still play it from time to time

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5 minutes ago, Blixies said:

First I catch you quoting Marx, and now Nietzsche?
This colides with my mental picture of a common uneducated weeb I nourished for so long, please stop.

Without trying to give myself too much credit, I do think that I prefer not being dumber and the world is better off this way. We have enough uneducated people already. 

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31 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

Are these players maybe young kids or people who don't grasp the concept of the game and just find it entertaining to see the ships moving around, while not really caring about, what is happening.

I think you've almost hit the nail on the head here. I say almost because you don't have to be a kid to just enjoy watching ships sailing around, firing your guns, occasionally launching girls and sometimes getting hits and damage.

 

How do I know this? Because that was me at first! To some extent. For maybe 150 random battles absolute max. WOWS was the first online multiplayer game I'd ever played and I had very little concept of what was going on, and it didn't occur to me at first that there might be somewhere I could go to find out my – and other people's – average scores. I didn't pay attention to whether battles were won or lost – it was just a case of having whatever fun I could for however long I survived (needless to say, not very). Hell, I didn't even realise the different between co-op and random at first. I never got down as low as 40% – by the time I found my stats in game it was about 45%, IIRC.

 

But I didn't keep that mindset because I did realise I was often sinking much earlier than others. And that I wasn't sinking that many enemies. So I started poking around on YouTube for guides (iChase opened my eyes to what was actually going on in a battle, and others have helped me get more detailed game knowledge since). I ended up here and on Twitch and got a ton of help from those places. I'm still progressing deliberately slowly and know I'll never be once of the top players, but my recent stats don't cause me too much shame.

 

This all begs the question: 'Why do some people stick in this mindset, while others realise something sub-optimal is going on?' My answer: simple lack of curiosity. You see it everywhere in life, people who get stuck at the 'almost zero knowledge, supreme confidence' stage of the Dunning-Kruger curve because they can't imagine that there's more to find out, or that it's worth doing. I can't say I can relate to that approach to life, but I think it does have a role in what we're talking about here.

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Yesterday I was doing the 3rd set of directives with my brand new IX Mogador and came across these two fine gentlemen in their IX/X ships. For my luck these were in two different battles that my side (thanks not to these individuals) won.

I often wonder why these type of players play high tier games, they are a HUGE handicap.

20190807210648_1.jpg

20190807210742_1.jpg

*edit

Ok, the american BB line player has atleast played quite many battles in the line but still rushing to higher tiers.

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I suppose too there is the idea of part-time players who just enjoy running about shooting things and maybe the visuals but just aren't that good.

Think of the guys who play football every week on a public park or an artificial pitch, club cricketers who play through the rain, guys who play handball or hockey or any sport who eill never be "good" but enjoy what they do.

Everyone is different, personally, I know I'm never going to be a "super-unicum", I'm at 66% in my Neptune but I know I'm not that good, although to be fair, I try to improve and be useful to my team, I'm not, always, a potato, and sometimes I'm quite valuable, but others just seem to love the dakka-dakka, or Dasha's voice, or just the nice colours of the camos.

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2 minutes ago, WarburtonLee said:

Same as you but in wows, i sailed around being an utter idiot until someone mentioned my winrate. Guess thats what triggered me, i didnt even know winrate existed, so thats when i went to youtube and searched for some wows tips. I started playing WOT after wows, but its a whole different game, map knowledge is everything. But since ive already watched some youtube videos i wasnt that bad for a noob, and im around 53% wins there. Still play it from time to time

Yeah, i bumbled from 45-46% after 2,5k games roughly. Back in 2013 and 2014 in-game sources were pretty bad and didn't teach much about the game, also lack of insentives as well. Although when i played i still wanted to help teammates (even if i was more of a hinderance than a useful tool, ally, friend etc.) and also my refusal to use gold ammo back then didnt help either.

 

I had one game before that in my T-34-2 on malinovka where i complained about the terrible grind for the T-34-2 (still is) and someone in the WZ-120 (yellow player) berrated me but i called him out as being average (wasnt aware of xvm) and he mentioned i was using it. ignored him after that but once that second game in ruinberg (got the 100mm finally) i had a somewhat long chat with the enemy superpersh (our team won and he was a 54% winrate player) and told me all about that.

 

helping teammates and seeing improvements made me want to improve (plus it helped pass some grinds faster), i also thought it was great going up the harder lines of world of tanks instead of the more noob friendly tanks (121 being my first tier 10 winrate is kinda f'ed on that even if my gameplay has improved dramatically). 53% is gud doe better than me, might reinstall it and play to 20k games (maybe).

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I always thought those players are either kids, seniors or people with disabilities who probably care more about self-improvement than measuring themselves against others.

 

There are plenty of people around who play this and other games with a controller, for example, because they can't use both hands.

 

Either way, as long as they have fun, I am happy for them. So much crap in this world, it's no use getting worked up over something so unimportant.

 

Interesting nonetheless, of course. :)

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1 hour ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

Typical features of such players are winrates around 40% or below, several thousands of battles and damage numbers below 25k hp, depending on what tiers and ship types they prefer. Some of them even have invested a considerable amount of money into premium ships. Some of them appear to play up to 30 battles per day on average and have played hundreds of battles in a single Ranked season, only to end up in the middle ranks.

 

The confusing/fascinating/irritating aspect is, that they stick to an activity, that cannot be rewarding

Of course it is. Occasional success can be more rewarding than constant success. 

 

We've had this conversation before on the forums and I would refer you to my previous comments about potential, skill and execution and their role in gameplay.  Some of us (and I include me in this group) don't have much potential, and we're OK with that, we still play and enjoy ourselves.

 

For my part I am aware of higher Tiers being higher difficulty and I don't want to ruin other's games (so I don't play "proper" Ranked, I have numerous Tier VIII /IX ships I'm not taking out in Randoms until my Tier VII performance improves, I'm not stupid enough to think that jumping to Tier X with Free XP is going to go well, either), but I know that WG wants (needs) people to spend their cash on jumping Tiers to keep the game going. So I'm not surprised to find people with Tier X ships and no idea how to play them - but presumably they feel they've spend enough money so they have to play it, and the odd Dev Strike that RNGesus hands out probably feels good enough to keep them coming.

 

I wish that it was possible for WG to make lower Tier gameplay more fun and less of a seal-club, as the simpler gameplay would probably be attractive to these players if it wasn't made to feel inferior, a step on the ladder of power to Tier X ( to my mind a stramash in a V-25 or Valkyrie is some of the best fun in the game) but presumably they find that people would lower their overall spending if that was where they tended to play.

 

 

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4 hours ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

they stick to an activity, that cannot be rewarding.

Obviously it is or they wouldn't do it.

The why of it is as multifaceted as the number of people doing it and is therefore probably unfathomable.  Even if one was able to finally struggle to some sort of answer, what would one do with it?

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trying to win is anxious process, not everyone plays to add to their everyday probs. Some need to unwind, see this as a way to pass time, i find it perfectly normal but it is ofc very upsetting for yr teamates

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4 hours ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

 

The confusing/fascinating/irritating aspect is, that they stick to an activity, that cannot be rewarding.

Says you, they may play because of the grinds and ship stats and all the fluff of being in a community rather than for your central tenet of winning battles. Some people go to the cinema to enjoy the movie and eat popcorn, not to be a critic, well the same goes for WoWs. And like the cinema it's the people who go to simply enjoy it that keep the movie industry going, if everybody was a critic it would die. Same goes for WoWs. Instead of criticising them maybe thank them for your stats because they are the people who sacrifice their dignity to critics and to make your stats look good. 

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