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Ok first off, i think i need to learn how to be a good DD captain in capping. So, i have the shiratsuyu and say im in a map where the cap circle has no islands in it (open water). How do i make my poi destroyer useful? It seems i spot enemy and he spots me, the enemy team shoots at me but no one shoots at the other destroyer. Usually i would smoke up but then ya get smoke torped and the team gets angry because ur not spotting anything. You leave the smoke and you get obliterated... what am i missing lol

 

Also, how do you transfer captains from different ships and is it worth buying points from elite commander exp?

 

Also it says my average damage is only 20k but that’s from my noob days and like 3/4 of my played games are t5 and under but now i play t9 t8 and im getting 50-90k in my games.. how long will it take for my average damage to balance out

 

also is it normal that DD’s get less dmg than say cruisers or am i just a bad player? If it is normal than the whole average damage system is kind of broken :v

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  • Never rely on your so-called teammates.
  • Never enter a cap circle first, especially if the enemy has radar ships and double especially if those have not been spotted yet. (Sniff around trying to spot them yourself, and you can ask in chat. In what feels like 10 toi 20% of times, other players will actually tell you if they have been spotted elsewhere.)
  • Leanr to spot the rare opportunities to make exceptions from these rules.

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1 minute ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:
Never enter a cap circle first

Do you mean enter it a couple seconds later or more like halfway or fully? Last time i waited behind a cap instead of contesting as there was a radar i got reported by my teammate :^)

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58 minutes ago, Vilodrom said:

Ok first off, i think i need to learn how to be a good DD captain in capping. So, i have the shiratsuyu and say im in a map where the cap circle has no islands in it (open water). How do i make my poi destroyer useful? It seems i spot enemy and he spots me, the enemy team shoots at me but no one shoots at the other destroyer. Usually i would smoke up but then ya get smoke torped and the team gets angry because ur not spotting anything. You leave the smoke and you get obliterated... what am i missing lol

Learn to use the F-key quick commands. Hover over the enemy DD and click F3 and you'll send a chat command to focus this ship. It's still up to your teammates to follow that advice and you'll get disappointed more often then not.

If you sit in your smoke, don't sit broadside to the enemy. Instead direct your DD towards or away from the most likely direction of incomming enemy torps. Better yet. Learn to lay your smoke as a decoy, then sit next to it or move somewhere else.

 

1 hour ago, Vilodrom said:

Also, how do you transfer captains from different ships and is it worth buying points from elite commander exp?

You select the ship you want the captain to be on. Click on the empty captain window, select "from other ship" and chose the captain you want. That captain will need retraining for the new ship or some of his skill will work in a reduced state or even not at all. Retraining can be done in two ways.

1. You pay for it with doubloons. This immediatly retrains the captain completly for the new ship.

2. You retrain the captain by gaining XP for him. You can accelerate this by 50 % if you pay 200.000 credits. The XP can come from experience in battles, free XP, or elite captain XP.

Please note that a captain will lose his spezialisation for his previous ship the moment you start retraining him.

 

Premium ships are a good way to retrain captains, as you can apply any captain of the same nation the premium ship without retraining him. He will always work at 100 % on a premium ship. For that you do the following:

1. Place the captain on the new ship, where you later want him to be. The captain will start to get retrained.

2. Now move the captain to a premium ship. The captain is still in retraining for the ship you placed him on in step 1 but his skills will be at 100 % effectivness.

3. Once the captain is fully retrained, you move him back to the target ship. No further retraining is necessary unless you move him again to a different silver ship.

 

1 hour ago, Vilodrom said:

Also it says my average damage is only 20k but that’s from my noob days and like 3/4 of my played games are t5 and under but now i play t9 t8 and im getting 50-90k in my games.. how long will it take for my average damage to balance out

Simple mathematics. You should have been tought that during your school days. :fish_book:

 

1 hour ago, Vilodrom said:

also is it normal that DD’s get less dmg than say cruisers or am i just a bad player? If it is normal than the whole average damage system is kind of broken :v

Mostly, yes. They deal less damage. That's for several reasons. They are squishy and die fast. Their guns have a lower caliber (and therefore less damage). Enemies can spot your torps in various ways and avoid them.

Average damage over all ships is therefore kinda meaningless. Average damage in comparison to the same ship class and tier, or even better with the exact same ship of the rest of the playerbase is a better way to look at it. And even then it doesn't tell a good story. It doesn't matter if you killed a 15k hitpoints DD or a 80k hitpoints BB, they are worth the same and the kill of the DD might contribute more to the win of your team the one of the BB depending on the match.

 

Stats are there to improve yourself. To look for your weaknesses and work to improve on them. They always only tell half the story, as demonstrated by my damage example above.

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3 hours ago, Vilodrom said:

Ok first off, i think i need to learn how to be a good DD captain in capping. So, i have the shiratsuyu and say im in a map where the cap circle has no islands in it (open water). How do i make my poi destroyer useful? It seems i spot enemy and he spots me, the enemy team shoots at me but no one shoots at the other destroyer. Usually i would smoke up but then ya get smoke torped and the team gets angry because ur not spotting anything. You leave the smoke and you get obliterated... what am i missing lol 

Essentially, you're asking how to play a DD, although I imagine you probably know much of the answer already (so apologies for any 'teaching grandmother to suck eggs'). Some pointers that may (or may not be of help):

  • As a general rule, you usually don't want to be aggressively pushing caps too early; DDs get more valuable as the game progresses, so not dying is your key initial aim (more so than capping). This goes double with most of the IJN DDs; with the exception of the high tier dakka ships (which can be spotted from the moon, more or less), you don't really have the firepower to actively contest with most rival DDs.
  • A lot will depend on what sort of spotting tools the enemy has (always check out the respective team compositions when the battles is loading); if there are CVs in the game, your play style will differ wildly from when there aren't. Also, be mindful of radars - for any ship that relies heavily on stealth, these are bad news. Essentially, the more spotting tools the enemy has available, the more conservative your play style will need to be. If there is no CV present, you are your side's eyes - spotting (and staying hidden, ideally) is more important than damage and caps if you're trying to win.
  • Smoke is a mixed blessing at mid-high tiers (I actually run my Shiratsuyu with the TRB build and forgo smoke entirely); on the up-side it does all the nice vision control things (until someone fires up radar or hydro), but on the down-side it does block your own vision too if not well placed, and (as you say) is a torpedo magnet. FWIW I rarely hide in smoke, but rather mainly use it to break contact with the enemy, and shield my allies. It can also be useful as bait, encouraging the enemy to blow radar at a less than ideal moment, and to attract torps (just don't be in or behind it). Bear in mind also that a smoke screen tells the opposition exactly where your DD is (in strategic terms).
  • The whole thing about your team not shooting at the right targets (to win) is pretty much par for the course in any game with random players present. As @Egoleter says, you can always request support from your allies, but don't expect too much. The most effective way to coordinate spotting and shooting is by being in a division, and ideally one using voice comms - it's a lot easier to speak the words 'please shoot that radar cruiser' than it is to type them whilst dodging incoming fire etc. If you are playing solo in randoms, it's worth keeping half an eye on what your team-mates are doing - try and work with the ones that look the least like they're clueless.

Hopefully, some of that may vaguely be of use; I would also mention that if you want to be actively pushing caps in an aggressive manner, most of the IJN DDs are not the best choices for that sort of thing - they tend to be more about stealth and large volumes of torps (with the exception of the higher tier dakka ones, which are almost more like small cruisers in some respects). In general, better cap fighters tend to be those DDs with hydro, good guns, and excellent maneuverability, and you need to be very good to get away with that sort of thing early game; being stealthy helps too.

 

For most players though, simply not trying for early caps is often the best policy (unless you can be shielded from enemy fire whilst doing so); spotting - and torp fire (because it doesn't break your stealth, besides telling people roughly where you were when you fired) - is usually the sensible thing to be doing early on. That's in general; occasionally, the opposition will go off their heads and give you an easy cap, in which case go for it, but that will be the exception...

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:o @Verblonde thanks for the long answer! I have one question though, if I’m not going for the cap right at the start then what should i be doing that will prevent my team going ‘wtf why is our useless dd not capping. Staying back and spotting cruisers and bb’s or trying to get sight of the enemy dd (which i cant see going well on my end)

 

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39 minutes ago, Vilodrom said:

:o @Verblonde thanks for the long answer! I have one question though, if I’m not going for the cap right at the start then what should i be doing that will prevent my team going ‘wtf why is our useless dd not capping. Staying back and spotting cruisers and bb’s or trying to get sight of the enemy dd (which i cant see going well on my end)

 

Slow down a bit before getting into cap to see if you got any backup from your team. If not, play defensive, don't push at all. Spot and spam torps. if there's a teammate USN cruiser near you and no CV in game - give him some smoke. 

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36 minutes ago, Vilodrom said:

:o @Verblonde thanks for the long answer! I have one question though, if I’m not going for the cap right at the start then what should i be doing that will prevent my team going ‘wtf why is our useless dd not capping. Staying back and spotting cruisers and bb’s or trying to get sight of the enemy dd (which i cant see going well on my end)

 

Pretty much what @MacArthur92 said. Also, bear in mind that you don't have to be in a cap itself to be doing something useful - if the enemy DD is capping, you may well be able to spot him, or at least spot his support (especially if they start firing at people - hopefully, not you). Any player that objects to you not suiciding at the start of the game is probably fairly safe to ignore anyway; so long as you aren't hiding on the map borders or anywhere where you can't see anything, you're probably okay.

 

Most IJN DDs tend to reward more circumspect play though, even the dakka ones (which spend a lot of their time doing a reasonably convincing impression of a firework display); patience is always important with these ships, as you have to choose your moments to unmask carefully (when you get an isolated/gravely damaged opponent for instance). Incidentally, by 'unmask' I mean anything that gets you seen (guns, mainly) - torps can be used with comparative impunity, because they give less away in terms of your location.

 

If you haven't already, it helps to make your minimap as large as possible, and keep an eye on the various detection indicators - early game, you'll want to be harassing people with torps rather than gunfire; this gives you the time to be watching your minimap for signs of what the enemy is up to, where the threats are, and where your detection radii are in relation to all this stuff. As a sneaky DD, one of the more useful things you can do is to make sure you wring every last advantage from the detection mechanics.

 

I haven't looked at your stats; are you playing any of the other DD trees? If not, it might be worth giving some of the other ones a punt as well - in a smaller-scale version of the 'play BBs to understand their strengths/weaknesses' thing, learning to play other types of DDs will help you to get better in the rest. For example, the IJN guns often get used only occasionally, but they aren't actually bad; if you play more gun-orientated lines, your gunnery will improve, such that when you do unload in your IJN DDs you're more likely to get good hits and survive the encounter. And so on.

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@Verblonde yeah I grinded out the rn dd’s but gave up at icarus as the guns were frustrating me and not being able to sneak torp until t8 was also not hot.

 

i also did russian dd’s till t4 but that was some time ago...

 

Yeah i did the bb trying thing too and i discovered a hatred for the iron duke with passion xd

 

i also heard that the proper gunboatery starts at akizuki where you sit in smoke and burn everything down to the waterline - but you lose most of your torps to it 1x4 set made me cry when i saw it

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Vilodrom said:

I grinded out the rn dd’s but gave up at icarus as the guns were frustrating me and not being able to sneak torp until t8 was also not hot.

The RN DDs are a good line, but not usually an ideal choice for a first DD line; I suspect you may not have had a suitable captain/build, which would have made life harder still - with a CE captain and cammo, my Icarus is showing as having a 1 km stealth torp window (although with stock torps, range and surface detection are the same), which isn't epic, but is more than enough to work with.

 

It's worth taking the time to learn to shoot with guns with a more 'rainbow' arc, as they turn up rather frequently across the various trees and classes. When I first started playing, I struggled greatly with accurate gunnery, and relied heavily on torps; once I finally (sort of) learned to shoot, it made me massively more effective due to having a lot more options. I might suggest the American DDs as a good line for learning to DD with a heavy emphasis on guns, or perhaps the KM (with them you get smoke/hydro at T6 which is nice); with the US, you don't get a stealth torp window until the upgraded T7, which isn't as bad as it sounds, as it encourages you to learn to shoot, how to lay ambushes from behind cover, and how to make use of what concealment you have, and when to break it.

 

7 hours ago, Vilodrom said:

i also did russian dd’s till t4 but that was some time ago...

As someone who started off very torp-centric, it took me a while to warm to the Russians; you can make a case that the Khaba line is perhaps the epitome of gunboat play - none of this wimpy hiding in smoke/behind islands; plenty of zooming around in the open with the fire button superglued down, and defying the enemy to hit you. There are definitely worse lines if you want to learn to shoot, although they tend to spoil you with very comfortable 'railgun' firing arcs. That said, if you follow the 'torp' line, you eventually get to Groz, which is perhaps one of the best hybrids in the game.

 

7 hours ago, Vilodrom said:

i also heard that the proper gunboatery starts at akizuki where you sit in smoke and burn everything down to the waterline - but you lose most of your torps to it 1x4 set made me cry when i saw it

I still tend to think of the IJN dakka line (T8-10) more as being small CLs - they're a bit big and lumbering compared to most other DDs. That said, if you can find somewhere to hide (very CL), the volume of fire you can rain down on the foe is ludicrous - they're magnificent for 'hit the enemy x times with main guns' missions BTW. I wouldn't fret too much about the single launcher - TRB makes it abundantly usable.

 

7 hours ago, Vilodrom said:

Yeah i did the bb trying thing too and i discovered a hatred for the iron duke with passion

I can dig that - I'm not generally a fan of lower tier BBs, mainly because they are so horribly slow at doing everything, and struggle to hit the side of a barn from the inside. I'm not rabidly keen on higher tier ones either, but they are at least a bit more tolerable. I'd suggest giving the IJN line a lash; they don't have the best armour, but they're an excellent primer for general BB play; also, the T6 and T7 are pretty worthwhile for Ops. I'm an inveterate DD main, but they're usually a sub-par choice in Ops (unless you're spectacularly good), so it's worth having a few BBs around as they tend to be better for a more typical player. BTW a good captain and build can help mitigate a lot of typical BBs' more exasperating foibles; getting some better captains for some of my BBs has made me warm to them at least somewhat.

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First off - Shiratsuyu is in a really sorry state, since it can no longer slot both reload booster and smoke. It`s a bit hard to carry/get good results in it right now. My best guess is that it serves as a so-called gatekeeper for Akizuki, and later 100mm gunboat DD`s.

 

I have one serious question - do you have a captain with 10 points already? If yes, then do you have a Concealment Expert skill?

The one thing which saves POI is the best available concealment in it`s tier - only beaten by a T8 Kagero, and the T9 Yugumo. You should play around that.

You are also a torpedobote, which means gunfighting should be avoided, unless you are certain you can either win or disengage safely.

4.08.2019 o 13:32, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor napisał:
  • Never rely on your so-called teammates. 

That`s a really good point. Your team are the enemies that won`t shoot you - most of the time, that is.

 

Now for the tips:

  • Reverse into caps (go into cap stern-first).
  • Watch the goddamn minimap
  • Your opportunities are defined mostly by the enemy team, so if there are any particularly nasty enemies you should make their life as miserable as possible. (at least call target on them whenever they are spotted, and or otherwise vulnerable)
  • IJN DD`s in general have bad gun reload, but a really good damage burst. If you`re about to break the line of sight (i.e. sailing past the island) shoot whatever you want dead first.
  • Above works well in DD vs DD fights too, since most enemy DD`s will treat you like an XP pinata, and mindlessly chase you around islands
  • If you sit in your smoke (and you shouldn`t), always anticipate enemy torpedoes. Make sure to face the enemy torpedoes with either nose or stern, ratyher than broadside.
  • As mentioned above don`t sit in your smoke. At this tier your gunpower isn`t going to win any prizes anyway, so you might aswell encourage your team to push with you by smoking them up, and then circling around your smoke so nobody can sneak up on it.

And for the last part - don`t take it all too serious. With the T8 Akizuki the gameplay will change completly anyway :cap_haloween:

 

P.S.

For Akizuki, Kitakaze, and Harugumo the basic build look pretty much like this:

image.png.731760907ef0d290e5634b1cd9a406b0.png

Don`t bother with Torpedo armament expertise. It will be borderline useless on T8-10 ships.

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12 hours ago, Infiriel said:

P.S.

For Akizuki, Kitakaze, and Harugumo the basic build look pretty much like this:

image.png.731760907ef0d290e5634b1cd9a406b0.png

Imo SE (or BFT) should be in the base build. SI is for later when you decide between it, BFT(/SE) and DE.
 

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5 godzin temu, rnat napisał:

Imo SE (or BFT) should be in the base build. SI is for later when you decide between it, BFT(/SE) and DE.
 

Why Superintendent first?

Well, all 100mm IJN dd`s rely on their smoke for farming damage with guns. If you run out of smokes you can`t fire safely, and therefore reliably. If you can`t do that then your bft is pretty much wasted. And there is no need for SE if the enemy can`t see you firing.

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FWIW my first ten captain points for DDs almost always looks like this:

 

image.png.bd7a26b7d1f755aae87c607c107f59b4.png

 

Needless to say, I'm not suggesting it's 'right', but rather an option.

  • My first point always used to be PM, but after a few thousand games I decided that knowing how many people were pointing big guns at me was more useful than the reduced chance of module damage when I got blasted due to not knowing that half the enemy team was taking an interest.
  • LS is pretty much universally accepted as the only viable first pick for two points.
  • I find the extra hp that SE provides saves me quite frequently, plus I run premium consumables (at least when in randoms/competitive) which reduces the need for SI slightly; I do usually take SI on future passes through the skills though.
  • CE is essential for your first four pointer (with the possible exception of DDs where you superglue the fire button down, so mainly Russians).

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On 8/4/2019 at 2:01 PM, Vilodrom said:

Ok first off, i think i need to learn how to be a good DD captain in capping. So, i have the shiratsuyu and say im in a map where the cap circle has no islands in it (open water). How do i make my poi destroyer useful? It seems i spot enemy and he spots me, the enemy team shoots at me but no one shoots at the other destroyer. Usually i would smoke up but then ya get smoke torped and the team gets angry because ur not spotting anything. You leave the smoke and you get obliterated... what am i missing lol

Look up your map. Look at the seed ships haw been placed at the start of your battle on your side.  Now you haw an general idea on how many ships will contest each cap in the first 5 minutes.  IJN DD's are basically submarines and later on haw a good rate of setting fires with HE.

For low tier capping: It's either an agressive approach to spot ->  smoke up and run away using island cover or a kiting aproach filling the cap with a wall of torpeadoes and weave in and out along the most unlikely position any ships would appear spreading some torpedo love without actually capping. The enemy DD's smoke is a dead giveaway where from you could be potentiually spoted, so use your range indicator on your guns to keep the distance.

 

For mid to high tier: use island cover and saturate caps with wall of torpedoes. If there are no islands trundle along CL's till they use their hidro or radar to show you what's infornt of you and help them shoot enemy DD's without owerextending (if there are no radar/sonar ships on one side, that side is lost and will fold. In that case wait for the enemy to owerextend chasing kills). If you haw radio location on your captain, you can take up an forward position to spread some torpedo wall love. If the coast is clear of enemy DD's and the radar ship is dead or has it on cooldown, engage in some flanking and try to take him out if you can, if not retreat again torping all other possible target's while his radar is on cooldown. The rest is WASD skills and engine booster.

 

And for the rest of 70% of battles. Nothing will save you from a lucky yolo DD that spots you long enouh for both of you to get killed by rng dakka dakka.

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Ok it seems i skipped like 5 posts on this thread somehow. . .

 

i already have torpedo reload on my poi commander should i just grind another one? I don’t want to use doubloons to get rid of it so i might as well use my 250k elite commander exp and get a 10 pointer on akizuki

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3 hours ago, Vilodrom said:

i already have torpedo reload on my poi commander should i just grind another one?

Are you able to play even a single battle in Clans? If so, that'll get you a free captain respec for a few days (at least, I think it's still on)...

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On 8/4/2019 at 6:58 PM, Vilodrom said:

:o @Verblonde thanks for the long answer! I have one question though, if I’m not going for the cap right at the start then what should i be doing that will prevent my team going ‘wtf why is our useless dd not capping. Staying back and spotting cruisers and bb’s or trying to get sight of the enemy dd (which i cant see going well on my end)

 

With regards to your team yelling at you to cap the only advise is to ignore them. 

Initially - and especially if there are 3 or 4 dds - your team does not care if you die in return for a cap. They think they dont loose anything by that trade. But for their sake as well - even though they dont think so at first and probably will never admit to it either - your team is much better off with living dds in the later half of the game instead of owning a cap for a minute or two in the start. 

And as most previous speakers have said, IJN dds are not cappers until t9 if the cap might be contested. 

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