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Raganax

CV's <----> balanced battles

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Seen the stream yesterday (AA changes and cv's going to nerfed/buffed(?), dunno, we have to wait and see.
 
Ideal it would be when in each battle tiers 8 + 9 + 10 at least 1 carrier (always!) and that those carriers are realy motivated to perform their main goal: scouting of destroyers, so battleships can play far more close (respresents far more entertaining play for all, also for the bb's).
 
Problem is atm: carrier players do not scout destroyers because it brings them nothing (why scout?) and because flak is too strong for most of the average and sub-average players (squadrons get shot down in record time, there are far too less average and sub-average players motivated to play any T8 or T10 carriers----> result is the powerful destroyers (smoke, ifhe,high rof, invisibilty totally rule the battle when there are no carriers in it (without any risks!)---->battleships have no other option than to stay out at least some 22 kms and do some snipings from far away. Such battles are dull, boring by far most of the times (also for the battleships). Secondly, the battleships have to flee all the time, but dd's faster and invisible will get them anyway. Cruisers also suffer (when no carriers in battle) because the destroyers keep detecting them in full stealth so teammates can have an easy shots at those cruisers.
 
So for reaching balance in each battle it is required that the goal should be: T8 +9 + 10 always carriers in battle (cv's are in fact the only ones that realy counterplay destroyers!) + those cv-players should be motivated to do scoutings of dd's. How to accomplish that? Give the cv-player XP (=credits) for each dd he scouts, with a certain max----> average + sub-average players will get realy motivated that way to do scoutings(!) of dd's knowing they get credit + XP rewards with it. Afterall: what all players have in common: if they invest 20 minutes of their time in a battle they want something out of it (credits).
 
Result of the above: far more sub-average + average players would choose carriers to play + they do scoutings of dd's (so bb's can play more close in attractive, entertaining ways) ---> balanced battles for all (=win-win)
 
Again the strive should be: always in each battle T8 + 9 +10 1 carrier present, motivated to scout destroyers for the teams -----> balanced battles
 
(you can argue: but there are some 100 purple carrier players who would make massive credits? Yes, but such players already have some 50+ mln credits and yes they would benefit even more BUT in return WOWS would get far, far better balance--->attractive battles--->would lead to enormeous increase numbers of playerbase logged in eu-server (50+ K players and even more).
 
So, it is a give and take situation where both WG and playerbase would profit (win-win situation)
 
Last, if WG does not like that the say 100 purple cv-players could do some massive credits that way, then maybe programm it the way that if some player has high stats (XP + avg dmg) af from a certain point (stats) for such players automatically the old calculations for credits/XP are applied.
 
Would be foolish to base the carrier-balancings on say some 100 purple-stats cv-players whereas tyhe masses (sub-average + average cv-players) are neglected and stop playing (and buying) cv's.
 
Must say, this is an idea of my twin brother who has another account and who played a real lot of battles.
 
The above would lead to far, far more balanced & entertaining battles. Would be so much more phun for all.
 
Think it over because as things now are those need really improvements (preferably soon)
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Scouting is in fact rewarded.

And active scouting in current CV play is boring as all out, hence why many will never do it even if rewards were increased.

 

The CV rework is simply a failure all around.

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Maybe I enlighten in more detail: my above posting is "and", as an example:
 
A carrier-player scouts say some 20 times (max for calculation- counter) an enemy destroyer (is the very 1st vital function for carriers)---> brings him/her significant extra XP + credits (good for motivation) and as a result of that alone the carrier will at least end score-list place 8. I am a 100% sure this alone will really motivate average + sub-average players (they represent the masses, bear in mind) to play T8 + T10 carriers (human nature).
Besides the above: carriers having "scored 20 times destroyer-scoutings, using fighter-zones etc.) the average + sub-average carrier players will try to fight flak by attacking various ships, of course (building the more experience) trying to accumulate extra XP and credits.
 
I have no doubt in my mind the foregoing  and my brothers earlier posting will lead to significant increase of carrier presence in all T8 and T9 and T10 battles ----> result will be far, far more entertaining battles for all 24 players involved and far more sub-average and average players will be really motivated to perform the scouting of enemy destroyers for the teams. I mean: yes WG: according the above and foregoing posting of my brother the average + sub-average carrier-players will make far more XP and credits by playing carriers and same time player-base getting real great improvement with regard to balanced battles: far more entertainment for all (win-win situation for all). It is all all about: give and take.
 
Carriers are vital for all battles, especially when we notice that the destroyers are getting real strong and are present in greater numbers: carriers are in fact the only ones that can counter-play those vast number of  (very) strong destroyers and gunboats. It would be ideal for game-play when carriers would be present in ALL battles. That should be the main objective to really strive for (would significantly benefit all).
 
So yes, realy, realy do think this over (meaning: the above represents a pure win-win solution for all involved)

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On 8/3/2019 at 11:43 PM, El2aZeR said:

Scouting is in fact rewarded.

And active scouting in current CV play is boring as all out, hence why many will never do it even if rewards were increased.

 

The CV rework is simply a failure all around.

 

I find that killing DD's wins games, as it has from day one. Therefore, not only is the CV rework a failure, this game must a failure too. Too many bad CV players don't bother to scout and hence help win the game for their TEAM. They do their own thing and hang the team. That they can afford to do this, implies that the in game economy is too generous in terms of rewarding a loss. I suspect this is keep the average potato interested in playing the game at tiers way beyond their skill/application of tactics. It is next to impossible to lose credits if premium ships/tier 10 premium camo's /premium account are used. All classes suffer from this 'generosity' and means that people can keep blundering around, helping lose battle after battle, to the detriment of players who actually try to win. 

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Scouting destroyers and gunboats (which are present in large numbers nowadays) is the most vital task for carriers: because this would bring balance to the battles-----> and far more entertainment for all 24 players involved in a battle. Nowadays, if one would play say some 10 battles then you will notice that only in 2 or 3 battles out of 10 battles there are carriers in it. So where are the carriers?
 
Secondly: if any carrier in T8 + T9 + T10 battle then it of course would be of utmost importance that the carrier-player REALLY(!) would be motivated to do destroyer and gunboat scoutings (so other ship classes would be able to play more creatively, more close, more freely---> this would make the battles really more tense and entertaining.
 
But where are the carriers? As a metaphor: imagine some legendary pie composed of great ingredients (in balanced ways). If you would leave out 1 (or more) of the (necessary) ingredients then the pie would become less tasty.
 
The carriers are vital for the battles. According to my brother the destroyers and gunboats are the strongest ship class in game (fast, undetectable, menacing torps, smoke, IFHE) and if there is no carrier in battle to counter those, then other ship classes cannot do much but wait.
 
According to my brother (has his own account) this game is unique: seas, islands, great ships, great sounds, great special effects, vibrant game-play etc etc. So incredible much potential. He says: this great game could easily reach 50+ K players logged in eu-server and possible even far beyond that in the near future.
 
In that light you should read my foregoing postings

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10 hours ago, Raganax said:

According to my brother (has his own account) this game is unique: seas, islands, great ships, great sounds, great special effects, vibrant game-play etc etc. So incredible much potential. He says: this great game could easily reach 50+ K players logged in eu-server and possible even far beyond that in the near future.

Traffic is just about how much you marketing spend per lead / install. Nothing else. Organic traffic is just the minor part of a player base.

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This is not about traffic. Please read the postings before you comment. This is about carriers in random battles. Play 10 battles and you get 2 battles only where carriers in it(??). And atm even when carriers in the battle they are not even motivated to scout for enemy destroyers (which then have easy free play, easy)---->team has no game-play and especially battleships have to stay out far (sniping a bit, with rng and waiting some 26 secs or 30 secs for salvo) and flee, fee (no creativity & entertainment in that). Anyway, a battleship player playing say some 2 randoms battles without any dd-scouting carrier in team gets sunk (90% sure), without any possible counter-play (BB cannot even shoot back: dd invisible and there is always the high rof IFHE shootings out of smoke to fall back on). What do you think such a player (sub or not) will do after 2 of such battles? He logs out and maybe he logs in after some 3 days? Reason: vital ingredient absent, thus the dd-scouting carrier(!). Carriers are vital ingredient for this game, very vital. Motivate the carriers especially to scout enemy destroyers and gunboats (credits + scouting counter visible----> extra credits + XP----> balances the game immense----> win-win situation for all. But nowadays my brother says he notices: less and less carriers around while at the same time more powerful destroyers and gunboats around: he calls this a serious imbalance).
 
But again, a possible solution for this all was presented in the earlier postings, so, seriously, take those in consideration.

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If you balance it this way nobody will play destroyers ever again. It's already hard as it is to do you job while playing dds without having to deal with planes all the time, a focused destroyer is going to survive max 2 airplane squadrons which means after 4 minutes you are back to port. A change like this will completely stall the strategic part of the game and just move it towards a deadmatch where a single player won't be able to influence the battle enough to "carry" so to say, meaning every game will just be decided by what kind of lineup and teammates you get (which is already hard enough to deal with as it is). Carriers are already the most powerful tide turning asset in a team, so I don't really get why another change should be needed after having already seen what carriers could do pre-balancing patch after the major carrier rework. You would just have carriers dominating the game left right and center independently from who was playing them. But I guess you weren't yet around to witness it with your own eyes. The current carrier gamplay is the most balanced you can have considering the playerbase (i.e. the good players dominate and the average players are meh with them, which is more or less what happens with any ship class) and it's a good thing. Winning games gets you more xp and credits and if you feel that by actively scouting you can win more games nobody will stop you from doing it, but if you are just playing for the stats and to save yourself on a defeat by just doing damage well... a player will maybe have a higher damage average but a 10-20% lower winrate, what matters is up to you, but then when you get heckled by the players on your team for being bad you can't just go crying to the devs, because your stats impact everyone else's in the battle. It's a multiplayer game after all.

For the number of carriers in every battle I don't get why it's a problem, you get games with no carriers, you get games with one carrier and games with 2 carriers, same as with destroyers, you can have none or you can have 4 in a game. I don't really see a problem there.

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Last: i myself always was a WOT-player for very many years. Only recently I went playing WOWS also. My brother on the other hand never played WOT (I tried him to) but he instead always played WOWS (great number of battles). My brother also plays SCII and is among the best 100 players ever SCII. But SCII stresses him: each second counts, special rigg; so when he plays that he has to prepare way before in order to play optimal.
 
WOWS on the other hand has a nice relaxing pace, entertaining, fun, relaxing and one can even smoke and enjoy a nice drink while playing. That he experiences as yet another great positive of WOWS: the nice relaxing, yet vibrant pace of the battles. That is what he told me. He plays far more WOWS random battles then he ever played SCII-battles.
 
Was my last comment on this subject. Anyway, 95% input of my postings was input i received from my brother. I myself am rather inexperienced player, but, yes, I like the game, the game is real ok. I even intend to keep playing tiers 2 and 3, nice action there also. Bye, all has been said, was my last comment.

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1 minuto fa, Raganax ha scritto:
Last: i myself always was a WOT-player for very many years. Only recently I went playing WOWS also. My brother on the other hand never played WOT (I tried him to) but he instead always played WOWS (great number of battles). My brother also plays SCII and is among the best 100 players ever SCII. But SCII stresses him: each second counts, special rigg; so when he plays that he has to prepare way before in order to play optimal.
 
WOWS on the other hand has nice relaxing pace, entertaining, fun, relaxing and one can even smoke and enjoy a nice drink while playing. That he experiences as yet another great positive of WOWS: the nice relaxing, yet vibrant pace of the battles. That is what he told me. He plays far more WOWS random battles then he ever played SCII-battles.
 
Was my last comment on this subject. Anyway, 95% of posting was input i received from my brother. I myself am rather unexperienced player, but, yes, I like the game, the game is real ok. I even intend to keep playing tiers 2 and 3, nice action there also. Bye, all has been said, was my last comment.

Well if you are not even up to discussion why did you post in the first place? You make suggestions but are not able to even consider what other people say. Pointless thread...

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Pongi16, it was not me making the suggestions ( I am really very inexperienced with WOWS, yet i like the game, yes). The real input of my foregoing postings are to be seen as feedback of my brother (his analysis) who is not here atm. Please do understand. rgds

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17 hours ago, Pongi16 said:

If you balance it this way nobody will play destroyers ever again. It's already hard as it is to do you job while playing dds without having to deal with planes all the time, a focused destroyer is going to survive max 2 airplane squadrons which means after 4 minutes you are back to port. A change like this will completely stall the strategic part of the game and just move it towards a deadmatch where a single player won't be able to influence the battle enough to "carry" so to say, meaning every game will just be decided by what kind of lineup and teammates you get (which is already hard enough to deal with as it is). Carriers are already the most powerful tide turning asset in a team, so I don't really get why another change should be needed after having already seen what carriers could do pre-balancing patch after the major carrier rework. You would just have carriers dominating the game left right and center independently from who was playing them. But I guess you weren't yet around to witness it with your own eyes. The current carrier gamplay is the most balanced you can have considering the playerbase (i.e. the good players dominate and the average players are meh with them, which is more or less what happens with any ship class) and it's a good thing. Winning games gets you more xp and credits and if you feel that by actively scouting you can win more games nobody will stop you from doing it, but if you are just playing for the stats and to save yourself on a defeat by just doing damage well... a player will maybe have a higher damage average but a 10-20% lower winrate, what matters is up to you, but then when you get heckled by the players on your team for being bad you can't just go crying to the devs, because your stats impact everyone else's in the battle. It's a multiplayer game after all.

For the number of carriers in every battle I don't get why it's a problem, you get games with no carriers, you get games with one carrier and games with 2 carriers, same as with destroyers, you can have none or you can have 4 in a game. I don't really see a problem there.

Later on I asked my brother to read your posting. He replied as follows: it is about the tier 8 and tier 9 and tier 10 random battles. He said there are almost no carriers in it and that the destroyers are present nowadays in great numbers (increase). He considers the destroyers and gunboats as by far the strongest ships in game and he mentioned that those powerful destroyers totally rule (without any real risk takings) the total battle when there are no destroyer scouting carriers in battle. He also said that there nowadays are almost no carriers in randoms battles and as a consequence of that powerful destroyers are present in great numbers----> no balance in those battles. He also mentioned that the battleships have no counter whatsoever against those many powerful destroyers. He fears that battleship players after a while will - for greater part - quit playing because they have no counterplay (cannot shoot back). He also said that he himself atm not playing destroyers any longer because it hurts the game (he means battles without destroyer-hunting carriers in it, well, destroyers rule all easily). He said me: carriers scouting for destroyers are vital for the game, very vital(!). But where are the carriers? He would like to see WG bringing back (he means motivating for scouting destroyers by means of credits and XP) the carrier players to tiers 8 and tier 9 and tier 10 in order to balance the game. According my brother that is the only way to really balance our great game. He so much wishes for that to happen. If not, he said, game will stay marginal (some max 22k (possibly even declining) logged in eu-server) whereas the strive should be to aim for 50+ K motivated players logged in eu-server (playing) because he opines this game is truly unique and has immense potential.
 
Anyway, is my brothers opinion as a reaction to your posting. I am only the messenger (i just started playing WOWS tiers 2 and 3 and sofar I much like it, yes)

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On 8/6/2019 at 6:57 PM, Raganax said:

Pongi16, it was not me making the suggestions ( I am really very inexperienced with WOWS, yet i like the game, yes). The real input of my foregoing postings are to be seen as feedback of my brother (his analysis) who is not here atm. Please do understand. rgds

:Smile_sceptic: I am thinking you and 'your brother' are the same person.....you wouldn't be the first.

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1 hour ago, bushwacker001 said:

:Smile_sceptic: I am thinking you and 'your brother' are the same person.....you wouldn't be the first.

No, that is not true. I always play through some servers, my brother also does. Me and me brother are twins. I am the female one and I always played and very much (still) liked to play WOT. My brother never did (i tried him for playing WOT, but he never did, he likes this game far more, WOWS). Look, I just started and yes I have my brother for guidance. Must say I so much like to play tiers 2 and 3. My favourable ship: Wakatake (III) so cute, lovely little ship! I love it. No, me and my brother (although we are twins) are completely different, very different. My brother loves the tier 8 and tier 9 and tier 10 battles, whereas I love my cute tier 2 and tier 3 battles. Lovely, this game gives so much possibilies for individuals to choose from. Lovely game! I like it.  Anaway, ask yourself: what is ther to gain? Nothing. W e only want fun. And yes, I am having good times playing my tiers 2 an 3, nice

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Scouting is not at all rewarding for a CV. Its boring and uneconomical. In addition, it gets you auto -5 karma per battle since you're keeping an enemy DD spotted. 
Trust me, the game should head directly opposite of what youre suggesting. Far less spotting capabilities, since the spotting is what makes CVs so hated. 

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4 minutes ago, Raganax said:

No, that is not true. I always play through some servers, my brother also does. Me and me brother are twins. I am the female one and I always played and very much (still) liked to play WOT. My brother never did (i tried him for playing WOT, but he never did, he likes this game far more, WOWS). Look, I just started and yes I have my brother for guidance. Must say I so much like to play tiers 2 and 3. My favourable ship: Wakatake (III) so cute, lovely little ship! I love it. No, me and my brother (although we are twins) are completely different, very different. My brother loves the tier 8 and tier 9 and tier 10 battles, whereas I love my cute tier 2 and tier 3 battles. Lovely, this game gives so much possibilies for individuals to choose from. Lovely game! I like it.  Anaway, ask yourself: what is ther to gain? Nothing. W e only want fun. And yes, I am having good times playing my tiers 2 an 3, nice

Nothing stranger than folk....... for someone with 120 battles you sure do know a lot about tier 8,9,10 CV play.....yeah I know, your brother told you to write it :Smile_teethhappy:

 

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3 minutes ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

Scouting is not at all rewarding for a CV. Its boring and uneconomical. In addition, it gets you auto -5 karma per battle since you're keeping an enemy DD spotted. 
Trust me, the game should head directly opposite of what youre suggesting. Far less spotting capabilities, since the spotting is what makes CVs so hated. 

My brother told me in the past: "there is at present an enormous increase per battle T8 + T9 + T10 of powerful destroyers (which the battleships cannot counter!) and there are far too less destroyer-scouting carriers around(!)---->he fears battleship players will diminish (quit playing), and my brother loves this game. He does not like to see such happening. This great game has enormous potential(!!) to easily reach 50+ K logged-in (playing) motivated players easily. It is all about the right balance. We need far, far more devoted destroyer-scouting carriers in T8 + T9 + T10 (otherwise the game will not further evolve to the high regions). That is what my brother told me. And I know him: he loves this game! He wants the best for it. He always told me when I asked him: "why do you not play WOT", then he answered me: WOWS is so unique, so much enormous potential, unique! So: motivate the carrier-players to do scoutings (drop in some extra credits for scoutings (show a scouting-counter say 20 dd's scouted on screen---> extra XP + extra credits)----> game will be balanced. That is his solution as he sees it. Again: he loves this game, I know, I am his sister.

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Just now, Raganax said:

My brother told me in the past: "there is at present an enormous increase per battle T8 + T9 + T10 of powerful destroyers (which the battleships cannot counter!) and there are far too less destroyer-scouting carriers around(!)---->he fears battleship players will diminish (quit playing), and my brother loves this game. He does not like to see such happening. This great game has enormous potential(!!) to easily reach 50+ K logged-in (playing) motivated players easily. It is all about the right balance. We need far, far more devoted destroyer-scouting carriers in T8 + T9 + T10 (otherwise the game will not further evolve to the high regions). That is what my brother told me. And I know him: he loves this game! He wants the best for it. He always told me when I asked him: "why do you not play WOT", then he answered me: WOWS is so unique, so much enormous potential, unique! So: motivate the carrier-players to do scoutings (drop in some extra credits for scoutings (show a scouting-counter say 20 dd's scouted on screen---> extra XP + extra credits)----> game will be balanced. That is his solution as he sees it. Again: he loves this game, I know, I am his sister.

By your description i suppose your brother has ~50% BB games, 30% CL games and little to no DD or CV games. 
I know many people see scouting as a befit role for CVs, but as a CV player both pre-rework and post-rework, i can tell you for sure that the scouting is exactly what people tend to hate. And currently CVs are already incredibly strong at scouting, most CV players are just not that great at it. 

But even apart from whether its actually good for the game or not, just scouting is really, really boring. Take a CV in a training room and just start flying around for 5 minutes. No engaging, just flying. Its boring. Really boring. 
So scouting can't be the main role of a CV simply because its too boring, even if it would be the best role. 

As for BBs being the victims of DDs: this is generally caused by overpredictability on the BBs side. The last time i took more than 2 torpedos at once in a battleship is probably over 200 battles ago. 

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14 minutes ago, bushwacker001 said:

Nothing stranger than folk....... for someone with 120 battles you sure do know a lot about tier 8,9,10 CV play.....yeah I know, your brother told you to write it :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Some people do not even recognize pure truth when it is presented to them. I do not blame you, it is the times we live in nowadays, yes. Makes me feel I have to post you below song. This song remembers of good times. Have some trust. Good people still out there, remind.

 

I Wish it Would Rain Down ( with Lyrics ) - Phil Collins

(pure truth is not recognized by the brain (= minor flesh); pure goodness is recognized by the spirit (communicates through feelings), which is ultimate, endless higher). Enjoy the song, bye. ( I am going to play some tier 3  I like that so much and my brother is sleeping)

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7 minutes ago, Raganax said:

Some people do not even recognize pure truth when it is presented to them. I do not blame you, it is the times we live in nowadays, yes. Makes me feel I have to post you below song. This song remembers of good times. Have some trust. Good people still out there, remind.

 

I Wish it Would Rain Down ( with Lyrics ) - Phil Collins

(pure truth is not recognized by the brain (= minor flesh); pure goodness is recognized by the spirit (communicates through feelings), which is ultimate, endless higher). Enjoy the song, bye. ( I am going to play some tier 3  I like that so much and my brother is sleeping)

Whatever.....I expect when you sleep he awakes :Smile_trollface:

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21 minutes ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

 and little to no DD or CV games. 
 

I just looked at my brothers stats. For instance, his prime destroyer is Asashio Black with stats:

 

average damage 57351

Average XP (= credits) 1.786

Battles played 1.442

Winning % = 54%

 

My brother told me that especially in games without carriers in it it is all too easy (cappings, shootings, torpings, all too easy). So, he feels bit down in those battles (he feels he hurts other players far to easily). Because he sinks motivated players (battleships) far too easily. He also told me: "when there is carrier in battle I go full in, tense". See, my brother loves fair play, for all. He just likes this game (i know him, relaxes him) and he wants it to evolve very much further (50+K and far beyond). Yes, that is my brother, true player, fair.

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On 8/5/2019 at 10:40 PM, Raganax said:

He says: this great game could easily reach 50+ K players logged in eu-server and possible even far beyond that in the near future

 

On 8/6/2019 at 6:44 PM, Raganax said:

This is not about traffic. Please read the postings before you comment.

Did you just woke up, my dude? Or don't you generally know what you are talking about?

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1 hour ago, Feldpropst said:

Drink a shot for every "brother" being dropped in a post or quote. First one's on me!

Then I take it you are one of those responsible for "hanging" this immense great potential game at just 22K? Feel proud (Mozes, we need more of the kind of you?, certainly, I think not!).......
 
This game should easily go 50+ K and far beyond, according to my brother. Act upon the solutions provided in the previous postings, please do. Motivate the carriers coming back (average and sub-average players, those represent the masses)---> balance to the T8 + T9+T10 battles--->>> Win-Win for all!!
 

Phil Collins - I Wish It Would Rain Down [RARE VERSION]

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1 hour ago, Feldpropst said:

Drink a shot for every "brother" being dropped in a post or quote. First one's on me!

My brother awakened: he wants to know how you have sex on an island with just 1 inhabitant (you)? Do you F%C# chickens? And now you come to forums to "preach" us into "your"wisdom? come on?! lol
 
Anyway, I am just the messenger. My twin brother is the adrenaline type. So do not blame me, just the messenger. bye
 

Phil Collins, "In the air tonight" (First Farewell Tour)

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