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Hayashio

Hayate has 6mm of turret armour [WiP]

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unknown.pngHayate has 6mm of turret armour.

 

 

 

Hello forum goers! It has been some time. Finally I get around to writing again! Initially I wanted to talk about Yuudachi’s newest version, but as it happens we didn’t receive the Poi-bugger this test cycle, so instead we’ll be talking about a ship very close to my heart – Hayate. She is in her first testing iteration for contributors, so everything is subject to change!  Work in Progress from bow to stern.

 

 

 

 


 

unknown.pngNow, you may ask how a ship that didn’t even exist until a few months back could possibly be close to my heart. I exaggerate, of course. What I really mean is that I was very excited about this ship’s arrival to the game.

Hayate is a new addition to the Japanese Gunboat destroyers, but she is quite unique. Hayate, unlike the Akizukis with their 10cm Type89 quick firing DP guns, boasts the not too well known 12,7cm 3rd Year Type – well, not exactly. Hayate is actually armed with something WG refers to as Type 5. A prototype 5” gun that was being tested by the Japanese at the end of the war. In short, she is a 5” Japanese Gunboat.

Which is amazing.

 

You see, ever since Yuugumo was added to the game, I’ve been increasingly drawn to Japanese Gunboating. Something that really wasn’t very popular, and still isn’t. Sure, there had been outliers like the Fubuki back in the day, certainly after the HE nerf, however, they had been all but forgotten.

Which is a huge shame if you ask me, since IJN DD guns are perhaps one of the strongest in the game. They punch hard, and have fast, flat trajectories. Their drawbacks… small things, turn rate and, ahem, reload.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, in comes Hayate to alleviate all the minor problems, the reload is now 4s and slow turn time is gone, in addition, she throws an extra 3k health into the pool.

 

I find it incredibly hard to get good matches in Hayate. going above 100k proves a challengeThis not being an ideal world and Hayate being a test ship that will probably go through changes, some more drastic than others, it was a bit optimistic of me to think that the ship would be as I had hoped out of the box. The rudder shift turned out worse than I hoped for, but is workable. She still handles very much like a Japanese destroyer. I am also aware of the inevitable longer reload of the quintuple torpedo tubes, meaning a miss hurts more than on a quad set. Personally I'd have preferred quadruples, since the reload outweighs the extra potential torpedo hit (which is almost never a hit anyway). But even so I think this can be overlooked with a decent set of guns to pass the time in between reloads. In addition to the fact, of course, that Hayate seems to be loosely based on Shimakaze, making quintuple tubes the obvious choice (despite like I said before: more not always equaling to better). What really baffled me was the sheer lack of armour on the guns, as well as the terrible concealment.

 

To the former, you may say that it matters very little. Considering the size of the ship, I cannot stress enough how MASSIVE these gun turrets are compared to normal 3rd Year Types. Getting overmatched by anything firing over 85mm is quite annoying (and it does, and will happen). In comparison, Akizukis (13mm) will stand up against anything up to heavy cruiser AP.unknown.png

If you have ever fired at a Japanese destroyer, you’ll feel this. They may not have a lot of health, but boy do they tank when kiting away. Most of this can be attributed to saturation, to the clutter on their decks, as well as their guns just eating up the HE. Hayate does not do this. She has a lot more health, but she also takes a lot more damage.

 

To the latter, I just simply don’t understand it. Her reload may be 1.5s faster than contemporary Japanese models, yet she doesn’t significantly out-reload ANY of the high tier destroyers, and many of them are a lot stealthier. Her health isn’t that much higher either! And many of those vessels are not only on par, but receive extra perks, like consumables in separate slots, heals, a longer smoke duration, the list goes on. So what is the argument for the bad concealment? She has good alpha on both guns and torpedoes. The torpedoes load for a very long time however, and good guns can only go so far when you can’t compete in the pool of picking your own fights. Which is something Japanese destroyers are very good at.

 

unknown.pngWhat bothers me the most with this however, is the fact that she just doesn’t play like a Japanese 5” gunboat. She’s clumsy, is easily spotted, and does spam over precision. I’ve spent around 15 matches in her on the first day, and after the hype had worn of, I slowly started seeing her for what she truly was. I didn’t like it. If you’re one of those players, like me, that takes pride in sneaking up to 5.6km range with guns prepped on one side to plaster a 3.5-4k salvo on an enemy DD. Then just kite away as their health takes chunks from your “non-existent guns”, while they retaliate with their “DPS”. And they fire and fire, but your hitpoint pool, salvo after salvo, just doesn’t seem to deplete... whether through misses or hits in the wrong part of your ship, they begin to wonder what kind of RNG magic is at work here. I mean you are an inferior torpedo boat! How could you possibly win this fight. That's the kind of gameplay a Japanese 5" gunboat offers, and that type of gameplay you are not going to find in Hayate. What Hayate really is, isn’t a 5” IJN Gunboat. She is a Harugumo in a Shimakaze’s pelt. An inverse gearing with worse torpedoes but better guns. A destroyer, that tries so hard to be unique, that she overlooks something special that already is. So if you were looking for a true IJN gunboat like me, then I can tell you that Hayate right now, isn't.

 

Feedback on what I would change

Extend the reload by 0.5-1 second, give her 5.6-5.7km concealment, increase the turret armour to at LEAST 15mm, and you have yourself a true classical Japanese gunboat. Punchy torpedoes. Punchy guns. Not best in class reload, but dangerous as all hell, and fun to play. It may not be for everyone, but it sure is unique. And that's what these kinds of premiums are about, right?

 

Have a nice start to the week, and I’ll see you guys on the Seas.

 

Strefs

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Ok honest question: Why leaving this here? Aren't STs supposed to have an own discord  / part of the forum for leaving feedback about those testships? 

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5 minutes ago, mcboernester said:

Ok honest question: Why leaving this here? Aren't STs supposed to have an own discord  / part of the forum for leaving feedback about those testships?  

This isn't ST Feedback. It's a mid-ship test write-up. You know, like a Youtube video of a test ship? But in written form.

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concealment is fine, she just needs better handling thats all, and maybe faster firing guns to like 3.8 secs or something to make her more competitive and/or hp.

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14 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

concealment is fine

based on what?

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Writes long article. Does not even state the tier of the ship once...

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1 minute ago, Ubertron_X said:

Writes long article. Does not even state the tier of the ship once...

Tier 10. You could see it in the game results screenshot :P

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1 minute ago, mcboernester said:

Tier 10. You could see it in the game results screenshot :P

Thanks. Otherwise it may be hard to judge if the concealment ist state of the art, mediocre or plain bad.

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34 minutes ago, Hayashio said:

This isn't ST Feedback. It's a mid-ship test write-up. You know, like a Youtube video of a test ship? But in written form.

Mid test of the first round of testing... 

 

Many ships go through 3 or more rounds of testing.. So i think embryonic write up would be more correct.

 

not taken her out yet as im doing other ships so wont comment

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8 minutes ago, Ubertron_X said:

Writes long article. Does not even state the tier of the ship once...

Apologies, I will post the ST thread link with the stats of the ship.

Her stats are esentially unchanged

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@Hayashio tried to PM you.. (private message) but apparently you cant be sent them.

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Its got to have a weakness some how as balance 3.5-4k salvos on another DD is insanely high considering 5 salvos and their dead not to mention high Japanese fire chance and module breaking.

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50 minutes ago, Hayashio said:

based on what?

based on other DD's having worse or similar concealment.

 

also why does it need to have a stupid amount of concealment? you know everyship should have a weakness its strengths are its guns so buff them, also buff its handling if its that bad and unusuable.

 

if you can't use 6.1km then the problem isn't the ship and thats someone who does ok with 7.7km concealment in the maass.

 

also its yet to go through the other rounds.

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1 hour ago, CptBarney said:

concealment is fine, she just needs better handling thats all, and maybe faster firing guns to like 3.8 secs or something to make her more competitive and/or hp.

You take BFT. Or the reload module. Take into consideration these are same shells as shima ones. They hurt.

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Just now, MacArthur92 said:

You take BFT. Or the reload module. 

ssshhh :Smile_trollface:

 

trying to 'balans' dem a bit.

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Just now, CptBarney said:

ssshhh :Smile_trollface:

 

trying to 'balans' dem a bit.

You imagine 3.5 sec base reload with shells that do much more dmg than Gearing ones?

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Just now, MacArthur92 said:

You imagine 3.5 sec base reload with shells that do much more dmg than Gearing ones?

yeah! even though i have no clue how much damage each does.

 

maybe better AA? idk 6.1km doesn't sound that bad too me.

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Just now, CptBarney said:

yeah! even though i have no clue how much damage each does.

 

maybe better AA? idk 6.1km doesn't sound that bad too me.

Shima shells do 30% more dmg than Gearing ones. 

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44 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

@Hayashio tried to PM you.. (private message) but apparently you cant be sent them.

That is very strange, I don't know why that's the case. I haven't changed anything on my profile settings. Perhaps it's the CCT group?

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30 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

also why does it need to have a stupid amount of concealment? you know everyship should have a weakness its strengths are its guns so buff them, also buff its handling if its that bad and unusuable. 

 

Handling is fine, like I said above. As for concealment: It's a general IJN trait to have good concealment. All IJN Torpedoboats have good concealment, as well as the cruisers.

31 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

if you can't use 6.1km then the problem isn't the ship and thats someone who does ok with 7.7km concealment in the maass.

Nobody said anything about not being able to use the ship. This ship is in testing. Some people voiced their opinions in the direction they'd like to see this ship go, I voiced mine. It is supposed to be a hybrid IJN Torpedo/Gunboat. Why not build on the existent basis? If the reload is at 5 seconds and the concealment goes sub 6km, that would still be balanced, would it not?

Ships of equivalent concealment either have cruiser levels of dps, long range hydro or so many consumables you forget to use some. Hayate does not.

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3 minutes ago, Chaos_Umbra said:

Until you get a CV game... no Smoke...

Well my pal on yugumo plays like this and does a lot in battle. Plus the CV is rare these days.

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14 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

@Hayashio though it can be equipped with TRB. That would be trollish :Smile_trollface:

That I will concede. Plus the AA is somewhat up to scratch, so there is potential for some torpedo inflicted mayhem, providing that the CV isn't the same tier as you!

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Seems better to just maximise a gunboat Shima, keep the stealth and still have the 3 torp sets. 

 

I was looking forward to this ship. Now not so much. I mean, how does it really stack up against a LM Gearing, the incoming Somers, the incoming gun power of Kleber and there already strong Daring etc.

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