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FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor

Seal clubbing revisited: NTC and the future of the game

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I've been thinking. It sometimes kicks in a bit late. It probably came to others a fair bit earlier.

 

But Wargaming's whole motivation behind the NTC seems to be not just (old) player retention. Rather, they want to use the NTC to shift some of the old player population from the high tiers to the low and middling tiers.

 

This looks like a hint that population levels at those tiers threaten to drop low enough that it becomes problematic. And their reaction is not to look at the causes, nor to think through their approach and the problems it could cause down the line, but just to look at the spreadsheets and try to make them look better with what they have.

 

Instead of asking themselves "How can we shift excess population from the high tiers to the low and middling tiers?" it would make a lot more sense to first ask, "How can we gain more new players and retain them for longer?"

 

Now obviously they have been asking themselves that, too, but so far did apparently not go to the root causes of low tier (lack of) fun & engagement. Instead, they teamed up with Paypal and created a recruitment drive with an appreciable monetary reward that got us the bot invasion (see other thread.)

 

Cut to the chase, I think they should change toward a strategy of sustainable growth. Some ideas how to achieve that:

  • Do something about Tier III ships without AA so they can't get slaughtered by CVs without any counterplay whatsoever. With the current meta, they have made HMS Dreadnought a useless port queen. 'nuff said.
  • Update the tutorials and game guide (The manual) which is factually still in 2015 and didactically, somewhere in the 1960s;
  • Keep the Wiki up to date;
  • instead of sending more vastly experienced players back to the low tiers to club the seals, maybe do a lot more to protect and arm those seals. Create a true safe space where new players are still challenged but can grow - reduce the advantages that seal clubbers have in the low tiers.
  • Try a commander skill cap for the low tiers, say max 1/3/6/10 point commanders allowed in Tiers I/II/III/IV.
  • Alternatively, give players a ten-point commander on every low tier ship and completely drop any redistribution fees on Tiers I though IV (or charge credits instead), along with possibly locking those captains into the low tiers.
  • Didacticize more. As in couple commander skills to a tutorial system. Help new players understand how, say, spotting and concealment work by spoon-feeding the necessary info in small bites. Mandating they maybe watch tutorials and possibly complete missions or even special tutorial operations in order to unlock a crucial skill such as concealment expert.
  • Nerf OP ships both low and middling tiers, both premium and tech tree.
  • Slow down the economy to make players grind more and really learn the ships instead of fast-forwarding up the tiers.
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12 minutes ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

 

  • Do something about Tier III ships without AA so they can't get slaughtered by CVs without any counterplay whatsoever. With the current meta, they have made HMS Dreadnought a useless port queen. 'nuff said.
  • Update the tutorials and game guide (The manual) which is factually still in 2015 and didactically, somewhere in the 1960s;
  • Keep the Wiki up to date;
  • instead of sending more vastly experienced players back to the low tiers to club the seals, maybe do a lot more to protect and arm those seals. Create a true safe space where new players are still challenged but can grow - reduce the advantages that seal clubbers have in the low tiers.
  • Try a commander skill cap for the low tiers, say max 1/3/6/10 point commanders allowed in Tiers I/II/III/IV.
  • Alternatively, give players a ten-point commander on every low tier ship and completely drop any redistribution fees on Tiers I though IV (or charge credits instead), along with possibly locking those captains into the low tiers.
  • Didacticize more. As in couple commander skills to a tutorial system. Help new players understand how, say, spotting and concealment work by spoon-feeding the necessary info in small bites. Mandating they maybe watch tutorials and possibly complete missions or even special tutorial operations in order to unlock a crucial skill such as concealment expert.
  • Nerf OP ships both low and middling tiers, both premium and tech tree.
  • Slow down the economy to make players grind more and really learn the ships instead of fast-forwarding up the tiers.

Excellent points but do those points get weegee a quick buck? Probably not, so they wont do it. :Smile_trollface:

 

The thing that prevents people from staying in the game, imo, is the lack of knowledge of the game and the mechanics. Even wot has a basic tutorial, although not that helpful but every help is needed for players. 

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Vor 7 Minuten, Miki12345 sagte:

Even wot has a basic tutorial, although not that helpful but every help is needed for players. 

Oh, WoWs has, too. It's just really, really old and has never once been updated. Also could be more thorough.

 

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/content/guides/

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3 minutes ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

Oh, WoWs has, too. It's just really, really old and has never once been updated. Also could be more thorough.

 

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/content/guides/

They could start a contest within the community for this purpose. 

Who does the best tutorial about subject X gets reward Y. Some time later, a week or a month or whatever, rinse and repeat but about subject Z. 

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18 minutes ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

 

Instead of asking themselves "How can we shift excess population from the high tiers to the low and middling tiers?" it would make a lot more sense to first ask, "How can we gain more new players and retain them for longer?"

 

This is a niche game, and in general its playerbase has been "filled", see WG being so desperate they give financial rewards for bringing in new players. Most of them in the mean time have even failed their way to tier ten and reached the "end content".

 

And that is the main reason why WG is searching "solutions" to spread out their already existing population.

 

Why quotation marks around "solution"? Take for example their plans to "fix" the matchmaker: i.e. hardcapping the amount of times a certain ship can be uptiered. Looks like a good idea, right? People might go play midtiers some more if they know matchmaker won't rape them, and it will be good for people's morale. But more important imho: why is this only coming now, since in the gazillion threads/complaints about matchmaking I have seen this proposal multiple times over the years. Probable answer: if most players have already reached the end content, there's no need anymore to frustrate them to pay to unlock said end content, so it's time to pretend to play nice.

 

They could have kept higher retention in some new players if they did that way earlier, cause there are plenty of new players giving up when reaching mid tiers, mainly tier 5, but that would have made less money. Maybe they'll get some of them back if word gets out, but that'll have to be seen.

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No guide, video, whatever external resource will help. Only in game tutorial can do that. 

Here is few scenarios:

1. ANGLING - player is given a cruiser positioned broadside to BB. Eating citadel and is almost obliterated. Game is paused, a short schematics of angling is shown, the BB position is highlighted then the player is given 25 seconds to angle. 

 

2. Fire managment:

The player stear a BB with broken main armament and secondaries under constant fire of flamethrower. First fire, pause the game and triggers short explanation of what is fire, how many instances it have and what is the good practice to handle it. Then game is resumed and the player needs to travel some distance which can be survived only if the fire management is correct. 

 

I am sure more such scenarios can be done similar to campaign modes. 

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Vor 19 Minuten, Saiyko sagte:

This is a niche game, and in general its playerbase has been "filled", see WG being so desperate they give financial rewards for bringing in new players.

Cherry picking a bit here but there seems to be a distinct correlation between a negative trend in population since January (except for a certain "curiosity peak") and a certain CV rework.

 

I don't think WoWs has reached its full potential, although that is just a gut feeling. There is so much that could be done with this game, say by adding a few plot elements. Clan Campaigns across several maps is a pet idea of mine. Turn-by-Turn strategy elements as build-up to clan battles.

 

Population_2_19.jpg

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As long as WG keep giving out boats you don't have to grind, this will continue.  After all what's the point in getting the lower tiers if you already have 5 through to 8 from a pre-release giveaway for a new tech tree?

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After all these T9-10 premiums and permacamos for t10s there is basically only one way to fix this, making more daily/weekly events for mid tiers ONLY everything else is IMO pointless, I mean come on even if you revisit a line you will grind it out in like a couple of weeks or a month and its T10 time again

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4 minutes ago, SirBlemmingtonSmythe said:

As long as WG keep giving out boats you don't have to grind, this will continue.  After all what's the point in getting the lower tiers if you already have 5 through to 8 from a pre-release giveaway

 for a new tech tree?

Well, some guys are collectors. Some guys like some ships. Unfortunately most people prefer higher tear just because they are more rewarding, the game play is more established. And some people do not keep lower tears since port slots are limited and expensive. 

 

"Giveaways" for pre-release ships are kind of compliment to old players and whales as the chances of getting them from free content with a limited port of a new player are rather low. 

 

And most of the old or whale players can skip them right away after release. And this happens once... I got Sinop and Jarvis for free, probably some French BB ... This do not mean new player will get them now. 

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One idea i had, and it was precisely for this reson to keep lower tiers popular more, i'll pitch it again. 

 

In tiers 2 through 5 add a sidetree of ships, just like the normal one but for example, you unlocked your Kuma, you have the option to either go up the tiers OR you can stay at T4 because (like in warthunder theyr tree) you click on the ship in the tree and it opens up another mini tree with idk 3 more T4 ships. 

This way you can add more early era ships, add more diversity in the lower tiers, and lets be frank here, you have a abundance of ships for those tiers. 

 

My quick 2 cents. 

:Smile_honoring:

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1 hour ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

But Wargaming's whole motivation behind the NTC seems to be not just (old) player retention. Rather, they want to use the NTC to shift some of the old player population from the high tiers to the low and middling tiers.

You miss the point. Wargaming is no longer willing to put that many resources in creating new ship lines, and needs some other ways for grinding. NTC is supposed to make players pay for shorten the re-grind of old lines, not to really make the players play these lines at lower tiers.

 

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Vor 12 Minuten, Oely001 sagte:

NTC is supposed to make players pay for shorten the re-grind of old lines, not to really make the players play these lines at lower tiers.

If that were the case, they could just straight up sell the reward ships for any in-game currency they want, free XP, coal, steel, like they do with some already.

 

And how would a pure resource sink help them with this:

 

Zitat

Wargaming is no longer willing to put that many resources in creating new ship lines, and needs some other ways for grinding.

?

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14 minutes ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

If that were the case, they could just straight up sell the reward ships for any in-game currency they want, free XP, coal, steel, like they do with some already.

And how would a pure resource sink help them with this:

?

The original plan didn't give you new ships. it gave you bonusses to existing ships.

Only after some strongly worded feedback by just about everybody did they cave and change the rewards.

 

They are to Russian to admit a mistake and just scrap the project.... so now they're giving new ships as a reward for NTC. Which was designed as a way to make people grind without having to make new ships.

 

So yhea ... failure all around :)

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2 hours ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

Oh, WoWs has, too. It's just really, really old and has never once been updated. Also could be more thorough.

 

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/content/guides/

This is a guide/video. Wot has an in game tutorial which when completed gives you a small reward, or thats how it used to be. Wows only has coop battle restrictions until a certain acc lvl. 

 

Wows should have an ingame tutorial as well. 

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22 minutes ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

And how would a pure resource sink help them with this:

As with every grind, some people will do it "manually". And some will take money to shorten it up, some more, some less.

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I had this thought.

 

Why not make Daily Missions that can be completed in all tiers?

 

I would love to play my lowtiers more often but if I have to play T5 and up for the missions I most often choose not to. Ok, WG perhaps don't want to give those rewards to the newest players but then they can make the first  mission T5 and the rest for all tiers. Might not solve the sealclubbing problem but they might sell more lowtier premium ships.

 

Also, true "Clan Battles" were clans can play agains other Clans on a Daily basis without the tournament siza. Like randoms but with clanteams meating other random clanteams. Can switch tiers every couple of Days and by doing so use lowtiers as well. Imagine, clan battles in T1s. :Smile_great:

 

P.S: I like the idea to put a cap on how good a captain you can put in the lowtier ships. D.S.

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Vor 37 Minuten, Miki12345 sagte:

Wows should have an ingame tutorial as well. 

I agree, although there had been an introductory mission for several years now.

 

It is not on the same level, and not nearly enough, but it was a step in the right direction and it does exist.

 

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As there are a lot of easier ways to get us older players to play low tier ships daily rewards or tier specific campaigns, I'm assuming that the reasoning behind the NTC is, to give us an incentive to fully regrind lines, and not just dip in and out low tiers. 

 

I'm just assuming here but I'm thinking this is because then there is the incentive to buy premium time to accelerate our progression get through a line get the reward ship and then regrind another line. 

 

Now im not actually being critical here, I can see why encouraging us to regrind whole lines makes sense for them, the sale of premium time must help bring in the money a lot easier than having to develop a new premium or whole new tech tree line.

 

Still if they do encourage us old sea dogs to play back down in the low tiers, would it be wise to increase the protection for truely new players. I know there is some protection but perhaps it needs to be beefed up after all we don't want to put off new people coming in to play. 

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21 minutes ago, lovelacebeer said:

As there are a lot of easier ways to get us older players to play low tier ships daily rewards or tier specific campaigns, I'm assuming that the reasoning behind the NTC is, to give us an incentive to fully regrind lines, and not just dip in and out low tiers. 

 

I'm just assuming here but I'm thinking this is because then there is the incentive to buy premium time to accelerate our progression get through a line get the reward ship and then regrind another line. 

 

Now im not actually being critical here, I can see why encouraging us to regrind whole lines makes sense for them, the sale of premium time must help bring in the money a lot easier than having to develop a new premium or whole new tech tree line.

 

Still if they do encourage us old sea dogs to play back down in the low tiers, would it be wise to increase the protection for truely new players. I know there is some protection but perhaps it needs to be beefed up after all we don't want to put off new people coming in to play. 

Yes NTC purpose and design is as free XP and credits sink. 

 

For old players in lower tiers... You know what is random distribution, right? And as if there are no players with 200ish games in t10 battles... 

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50 minutes ago, Episparh said:

Yes NTC purpose and design is as free XP and credits sink. 

 

For old players in lower tiers... You know what is random distribution, right? And as if there are no players with 200ish games in t10 battles... 

 

Sorry I don't get the point your trying to make

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5 hours ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

Cut to the chase, I think they should change toward a strategy of sustainable growth. Some ideas how to achieve that:

  1. Do something about Tier III ships without AA so they can't get slaughtered by CVs without any counterplay whatsoever. With the current meta, they have made HMS Dreadnought a useless port queen. 'nuff said.
  2. Update the tutorials and game guide (The manual) which is factually still in 2015 and didactically, somewhere in the 1960s;
  3. Keep the Wiki up to date;
  4. instead of sending more vastly experienced players back to the low tiers to club the seals, maybe do a lot more to protect and arm those seals. Create a true safe space where new players are still challenged but can grow - reduce the advantages that seal clubbers have in the low tiers.
  5. Try a commander skill cap for the low tiers, say max 1/3/6/10 point commanders allowed in Tiers I/II/III/IV.
  6. Alternatively, give players a ten-point commander on every low tier ship and completely drop any redistribution fees on Tiers I though IV (or charge credits instead), along with possibly locking those captains into the low tiers.
  7. Didacticize more. As in couple commander skills to a tutorial system. Help new players understand how, say, spotting and concealment work by spoon-feeding the necessary info in small bites. Mandating they maybe watch tutorials and possibly complete missions or even special tutorial operations in order to unlock a crucial skill such as concealment expert.
  8. Nerf OP ships both low and middling tiers, both premium and tech tree.
  9. Slow down the economy to make players grind more and really learn the ships instead of fast-forwarding up the tiers.

(switched your list of points to numbered to make responding more convenient)

1. with how little damage T4 CVs do, who cares? And even if you "did something about it", you'd get the other half of the playerbase complaining about Dreadnought now being a useless desecration of their port because she's no longer historical...

2. We've been asking WG to improve ingame tutorials since circa 2015... at least they've got some pretty decent youtube content nowadays, so there is that

3. It's a Wiki. That's on us, not them.

4. There's a "safe space" for newer players, dont remember how many games the cutoff is at. And how would you implement the second part? Platitudes like yours are nice and all, but they're also useless.

5. & 6. I like the idea in principle, but how would you implement that in practice? There are half a million pitfalls and issues... again, platitudes dont help.

7. Good luck trying to force people to learn when they have zero interest in doing so.

8. They tried. Guess what the community gave them for it? A massive shitstorm.

9. Very good way to NOT retain players. The game's grindy enough as it is.

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5 hours ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

Cut to the chase, I think they should change toward a strategy of sustainable growth. Some ideas how to achieve that:

  • Do something about Tier III ships without AA so they can't get slaughtered by CVs without any counterplay whatsoever. With the current meta, they have made HMS Dreadnought a useless port queen. 'nuff said.
  • Update the tutorials and game guide (The manual) which is factually still in 2015 and didactically, somewhere in the 1960s;
  • Keep the Wiki up to date;
  • instead of sending more vastly experienced players back to the low tiers to club the seals, maybe do a lot more to protect and arm those seals. Create a true safe space where new players are still challenged but can grow - reduce the advantages that seal clubbers have in the low tiers.
  • Try a commander skill cap for the low tiers, say max 1/3/6/10 point commanders allowed in Tiers I/II/III/IV.
  • Alternatively, give players a ten-point commander on every low tier ship and completely drop any redistribution fees on Tiers I though IV (or charge credits instead), along with possibly locking those captains into the low tiers.
  • Didacticize more. As in couple commander skills to a tutorial system. Help new players understand how, say, spotting and concealment work by spoon-feeding the necessary info in small bites. Mandating they maybe watch tutorials and possibly complete missions or even special tutorial operations in order to unlock a crucial skill such as concealment expert.
  • Nerf OP ships both low and middling tiers, both premium and tech tree.
  • Slow down the economy to make players grind more and really learn the ships instead of fast-forwarding up the tiers.
  1. Dreadnought is more than fine. The Tier IV CV are very weak and not really a threat
  2. That would be nice
  3. would be nice too, despite it will be ignored by most
  4. prolonging the the protection could work, but it also delays really learning something
  5. that would not work as the game does not know which skills to deactivate, another idea would be to deactivate skill Tiers completly, but then sealclubbers would pour all their points into the allowed Tiers
  6. that should be limited, otherwise people would print 10 point commanders; maybe give each new player one 10 point commander and a second one after 30 games
  7. forceful tutorials do not work, people will leave the game, just add them to the game as an option (with rewards for completion)
  8. WG is reworking ships that are too strong, they would like to do it with premiums too, but the community does not want it...
  9. while I would not mind, new players would get frustrated, which is contradicting your idea of sustainable growth
4 hours ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

Cherry picking a bit here but there seems to be a distinct correlation between a negative trend in population since January (except for a certain "curiosity peak") and a certain CV rework.

Feel free to add downward arrows to the previous years. This happens every year...

We have now a similar activity to summer 2016...

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I think the whole thing is funny. Players with 3000+ games going back to tier 5-6 to seal club new players with less than 200. Its golden....

 

I mean people go down the tiers from time to time but this will just open the flood gates.

 

So many ways WG could keep people interested and they come up with this? So funny..

 

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Ok so the cost of lets say that french t10 atlanta is roughly what? 1mil (free) xp and about 60mil silver? :Smile_teethhappy: 

No thank you comrade

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