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How to french DD? - Builds and Playstyle

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Surprised nobody started that discussion already. How do the ne french DDs work? What is their role? How do you play around its weaknesses and cash in on its strengths?

 

I currently have the T5 Jaguar and T6 Guepard in port, which seems to be the point, where the play style starts to evolve towards the unique french arc, that is speed and situational firepower.

Let me start with the Jaguar and maybe talk about the Guepard later, if not covered by somebody else in the meantime.

 

Short Disclaimer: My suggestions reflect my personal opinion and playstyle and needn't necessarily be universal.

 

Jaguar (T5):

My best idea is the traditional bully-DD build:

Skills (in order of progression): PM, LS, SE, CE for the basics. Then take another 3 out of the following 4 skills: AR, BFT, DE, AFT. That is all theoretical. You will likely just grind through that ship and put a max 10pt captain on it.

Modules: I went with the DD-standard: Main Armaments mod 1, Propulsion mod 1 and Aiming Systems mod 1.

 

The key weaknesses of the Jaguar are slow turret traverse and having no smoke. You could counter the first weakness by taking EM instead of LS and MBM2 instead of ASM1. That would however generate new weaknesses, e.g. being a sitting duck after rudder oder engine are damaged and more dispersion, resulting in less dpm.

Having no smoke is a problem under CV-favoring metas. Your AA will not reliably shoot planes down, not before they strike you repeatedly. So an alternative build would be to replace SE by BFT. It is not much in terms of AA but you also get the buff on gun reload. The hp buff is only 10.5%. SE is rather a choice if you want your captain to go up the line, as for e.g. Mogador that buff will be almost 16%.

AFT could be a choice for a 14 pt captain. You would get extra AA and better harrassment on BBs, but the shells are really slow and air drag will have them plummet from the sky at max range, hard to land hits.

 

Personally I like the Jaguar as a hybrid build. It has very fast and hard hitting torpedos. CE and camo will give you a detectability of 6.3km, so you got a 1.7km stealth torp window for your 8km torps. The speed of 68kts will make them travel that distance in about 45s, which is fast enough to catch a BB off guard. Try not to torp them from the front, as 3 torp salvos have wide gaps, rather torp at an angle of 30-45°.

 

The concealment is still good in comparison to how the line evolves from T6 on. So you can take caps, ambush DDs and, as said resort to stealth torps, when your HP are depleted.

 

The general playstyle is close to russian DDs, so you fight from greater distance. The gun arcs are quite nice, but shell velocity still is mediocre. It gets better at higher tiers, but for now, stay in medium range. Rely on your speed boost to confuse aim. Also your turret traverse is slow, so hard maneuvers should be limited to evade the smarter players. Also don't start your turret rotation as you see the enemy, try to anticipate where enemies might op up and get your guns ready beforehand. These DDs don't react well to surprises.

 

The Jaguar does not get the reload booster. Keep distance to USN-gunboats to land more hits than them and close the distance to russian DDs, to make your higher fire rate dominate his better arcs. Don't however close within 4-6km as you will get in russian- and USN- torp range. You are fast, you can control the distance. Don't start shooting, if the enemy DD smokes up. You don't have hydro to keep him spotted and his team and he will still see you and shoot you. Avoid clusters of enemies but rather attack isolated DDs, like torpboats sneaking up on your teams flanks.

 

Summed up,

the Jaguar is a well-rounded package, with weaknesses that can be played around and strengths it can force upon its opponents. Play it mostly like a russian DDs until you can't and then switch to ninja torp mode.

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This is what I use:
https://worldofwarships.eu/en/content/commanders-skills/?skills=12,18,20,25,34&ship=Destroyer

 

With the other 5 points you can go with DE, SI, AR, or whatever you want. 

RPF + CE is most useful for me, since I can just boost like a rocket into enemy DDs :) 

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https://worldofwarships.com/en/content/captains-skills/?skills=1,12,17,20,23,28&ship=Destroyer

Not sure about the last 4 points yet. Might go DE or IFHE. Don't know yet.....she sets alot of fires with the guns anyway.

This is for the tier 7 btw. Didn't go EM. Guns turn 80 degrees in 18 sec. And I guess it will be lower the higher I get....as usually it does.

 

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16 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

@MacArthur92Which build is for which DD?

All 3 are useful. Depends on your playstyle or preferring. I have IFHE bold on my LeTerrible .

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1st.

 

image.thumb.png.487b5399ef7fb58feb82288bf9a2556a.png   

 

image.png.69fdb76d690edb4ed7ae2c3eb143b066.png

 

2nd

image.png.141a763a2f57a99c86da4c99432c746f.png

 

3rd

unknown.png

 

WHAT???? Graft Spee isnt that "THING " 19mm amour Chief ? Ay "Cap Innn"  19mm ........... It does have a bit of  100mm Cap InnN.....

 

" Well I be a be a broken sea biscuit, from Nelsons Stores Chief ! " .... " 100 mm hey ...........

 

image.png.84bdf9decc50d4431ab2b47a3373ff22.png 

 

4th

 

10666 / 24 = 444.41 

39400 / 444.41 = 88.65  RU = 89

89

 

AND THE ANSWER IS :::::

 

 

 

NEW IDEA --------------------------------------------------------

 

SKIPPER " Throw the ammo over board, lighten the load and prepare the life jackets "    CREW " Ay Ay Captain 

 

image.thumb.png.49aba201cc589734ab14ad534c6ac255.png

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[VTEPS]
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I'm sorry to see that the French destroyer got bad.
Bad camo, bad torpedo range, no smoke, what more ?? it's not a destroyer but a crap.
Hope buff !!
And sorry for the obscene speech!
But this cannot be described

 

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On 8/6/2019 at 2:25 PM, MEGA_DODO said:

I'm sorry to see that the French destroyer got bad.
Bad camo, bad torpedo range, no smoke, what more ?? it's not a destroyer but a crap.
Hope buff !!
And sorry for the obscene speech!
But this cannot be described

Both Jaguar and Guépard seems quite strong. Which French dds are you referring to?

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20 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

A smoke buff would be welcome on all French DD's, played mine once or twice, and that is all I will play them.

I think seriously if you dont have smoke, you cant sit in your own smoke, thus it " MAY" promote a more " Refreshingly Mobile, thinking game " for a Commander 

 

I am happy with no smoke on them, having said this if I have to " Get Seriously Competitive "  right now I would not be picking one, I would be in my Kitakaze, Gearing or Fletcher in that order 

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4 hours ago, CaptStevSmith said:

I think seriously if you dont have smoke, you cant sit in your own smoke, thus it " MAY" promote a more " Refreshingly Mobile, thinking game " for a Commander 

 

I am happy with no smoke on them, having said this if I have to " Get Seriously Competitive "  right now I would not be picking one, I would be in my Kitakaze, Gearing or Fletcher in that order 

I hear you but smoke does not mean you sit in it, well for me anyway, it is essential for escaping but then again with the advent of radar, I think you have to be mobile anyway, these nes DD's just don't float my boat really.

 

Maybe one day when the stars align and i am in a better frame of mind things might change.

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7 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

I hear you but smoke does not mean you sit in it, well for me anyway, it is essential for escaping but then again with the advent of radar, I think you have to be mobile anyway, these nes DD's just don't float my boat really.

 

Maybe one day when the stars align and i am in a better frame of mind things might change.

So True Nooby S

 

I am starting to get into Mogador but man is she a " B*T*H if you screw up!

 

Hanse,s advice helped me a lot 

 

 

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I'm currently at Fantasque. And my God this ships rudder or engine get knocked out easilly.

First I ran with Prop mod 1, but my steering got knocked out every game the enemy looked in my direction.

So I switched to Steering Gears mod 1, and my engine gets knocked out every game.

And last game both of them kept getting knocked out everytime HE splashed near me.

This wasn't a massive problem with the tier 5-7. But the tier 8 is just horrible there.

If it wasn't for LS, I'd be murdered every game.

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I'm still new with destroyers (and not an hard player also) 

But when I look at french DD, It seems to me that their torpedos are good.

So why nobody want to try Torpedo Armament Expertise?

I'm nearing the 3rd captain skill slot, and I don't know if I'll use SE, TAE, BFT or DE ...

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2 hours ago, Youenn_Cadrach said:

I'm still new with destroyers (and not an hard player also) 

But when I look at french DD, It seems to me that their torpedos are good.

So why nobody want to try Torpedo Armament Expertise?

I'm nearing the 3rd captain skill slot, and I don't know if I'll use SE, TAE, BFT or DE ...

The main reason is a low stealthfire window on the torpedoes, and that torpedoes in general are an unreliable damage source since they often rely on the mistakes of your intented target.

 

Guns on the other hand offer consistency, since you have a larger control on your gunnery and there is a larger room for error and misses.

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On 9/11/2019 at 12:17 PM, ollonborre said:

The main reason is a low stealthfire window on the torpedoes, and that torpedoes in general are an unreliable damage source since they often rely on the mistakes of your intented target.

 

Guns on the other hand offer consistency, since you have a larger control on your gunnery and there is a larger room for error and misses.

I actually took TAE on my Fantasque captain. The torp reload is barely over a minute that way. Yes, the stealth firing window isn’t overly large but the ship’s speed makes setting up shots rather effective, especially when they can be sent every minute or so, it can make for sustained torpedo barrages. And they’re wickedly fast (75 kt). In fact I’m using both T8 FR DDs more as torp boats and it’s quite playable.

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I did the usual PM, LS, SE, CE build with the lower tier ones, added BFT at 13p and EM at 15p. AR was to follow at 17p. Now Im at Le Fan with one game left before I can get Mogador. Trying out a build with IFHE. (PM, LS, SE, CE, IFHE, BFT.) I will add EM or AR when I unlock the last point on the captain.

Le Fan doesnt need AFT as 13km is a decent range... Im not sure IFHE is needed, but it allows you to farm easy damage on t6-7 BBs and all cruisers (29mm pen). When you are bottom tier its probably better to use your speed, torps and AP to hit and run. For that reason Im leaning towards a build with DE or AFT for Mogador and Kleber. You might want range on t9-10 to be able to play safer, then swoop in and eliminate targets mid/late game. Early game I will play them as Russian DDs.

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Currently on Fantasque and at the same time regrinding Akizuki. Seems rediculous those two ships are the same tier, Fantasque feels more like a tier 6.

Sure the french are great at ambushing DDs, but aki has the same sustained DPM with better HE pen as frenchies with MBRB on. Why bother playing french?

 

I havn't even bothered with the Khaba playstyle since the damage output is so underwhelming.

Might try i now with IFHE in a support role, but you arnt killing any cruisers, let alone BBs with that output.

 

Does anyone know what is the consensus on IFHE?

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18 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Currently on Fantasque and at the same time regrinding Akizuki. Seems rediculous those two ships are the same tier, Fantasque feels more like a tier 6.

Sure the french are great at ambushing DDs, but aki has the same sustained DPM with better HE pen as frenchies with MBRB on. Why bother playing french?

 

Le Fanta have less gun dpm than Kagero:Smile_smile:

 

From tier 8 onward you might be better served with "russian" gameplay, putting range (and AFT) and much improved ballistics into motion, though when opportunity arises, cease firing and go torp some (preferably coming towards you) battleships. Even more so at tier 9 and 10, where concealment difference clearly exceeds 1km compared to other DDs.

 

They are no team players, just opportunists. Just like RU DDs, the closest to teamwork is assisting DD proper at the cap

 

18 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Does anyone know what is the consensus on IFHE?

Same as on any other non Akizuki DD - it allows you to touch hightier cruisers with exception of tier 10 and occasional midtier BBs. AP on other hand, can be violent surprise for cruisers at 10km or less

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Maybe on tier 9+10 AFT could be relevant, except those things with an EIGHT or SEVEN second reload (!) will need all the captain perks they can get to push out any worthwhile damage.

A better choice might be to embrace the USN cruiser playstyle of shooting form behind islands, and for that lower range is actually an advantage (not detected by ships on the side)

 

Seems you have to take CE to use stealth torps, so the choice is really between IFHE, AFT or DE (since BFT and AR will be mandatory).

There just arnt points to take EM and 18s traverse should be servicable enough for a Blysca player.

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59 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Maybe on tier 9+10 AFT could be relevant, except those things with an EIGHT or SEVEN second reload (!) will need all the captain perks they can get to push out any worthwhile damage.

A better choice might be to embrace the USN cruiser playstyle of shooting form behind islands, and for that lower range is actually an advantage (not detected by ships on the side)

 

Seems you have to take CE to use stealth torps, so the choice is really between IFHE, AFT or DE (since BFT and AR will be mandatory).

There just arnt points to take EM and 18s traverse should be servicable enough for a Blysca player.

Le Fanta have range in line with tier 9 and 10 (13km, 12.8km and 13.6km respectively). And while reload sounds intimidating the wrong way, including theoretical dpm below IJN "torpedoboats", once you stack all the gun reloading goodies it becomes much more workable (6.3s on Mogador, 5.5s on Kleber), while MBRB temporarily gives you Gearing experience... which is enough to trash any DD into submission, assuming aim and all guns are on point.

 

Maxing out camo is needed to make use of these torps, but unlike RU, they are actually worth it. Not so much on Fanta due to atrocious 1.8km detection, but 1.4km on Mogador and Kleber, combined with 75kts of their turns them into fine brown alert for smoked DDs

 

I run them as such

Przechwytywanie.png

 

And I can't think of any other build that is better than this. PT-LS-EM-AR-SE-BFT-SI-Demo and running with Range upgrade and you end up with inferior reload (unless low hp due to AR) and range compared to above, while getting only one MBRB extra and superficial 2% fire chance. 

 

Still, initial impression is Kleber is old Kebab reincarnate and I don't think she will stay as she is now for long. Guessing range AND maneuverability will take a hit, just like Kebab suffered, you can't have zippy gunbote molesting baBBies at range where they can't hit you reliably at tier 10. That and/or eating full AP BB pens because WG glorious balans:cap_book:

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4 hours ago, Panocek said:

Le Fanta have range in line with tier 9 and 10 (13km, 12.8km and 13.6km respectively). And while reload sounds intimidating the wrong way, including theoretical dpm below IJN "torpedoboats", once you stack all the gun reloading goodies it becomes much more workable (6.3s on Mogador, 5.5s on Kleber), while MBRB temporarily gives you Gearing experience... which is enough to trash any DD into submission, assuming aim and all guns are on point.

 

Maxing out camo is needed to make use of these torps, but unlike RU, they are actually worth it. Not so much on Fanta due to atrocious 1.8km detection, but 1.4km on Mogador and Kleber, combined with 75kts of their turns them into fine brown alert for smoked DDs

 

I run them as such

Przechwytywanie.png

 

And I can't think of any other build that is better than this. PT-LS-EM-AR-SE-BFT-SI-Demo and running with Range upgrade and you end up with inferior reload (unless low hp due to AR) and range compared to above, while getting only one MBRB extra and superficial 2% fire chance. 

 

Still, initial impression is Kleber is old Kebab reincarnate and I don't think she will stay as she is now for long. Guessing range AND maneuverability will take a hit, just like Kebab suffered, you can't have zippy gunbote molesting baBBies at range where they can't hit you reliably at tier 10. That and/or eating full AP BB pens because WG glorious balans:cap_book:

Dunno, the Daring is still untouched by glorious Balans, as is the Harugumo...:cap_tea:


5,5 reload is actually decent enough for farming BBs.

And yeah, MBRB is pretty neat - unless you run into something like a Daring or Harugumo, then you can grab your ankles and kiss you [edited]goodbye (but then, so can Khaba).

 

Thanks for the Build.

I have IFHE instead of AFT atm (dont you have problems with cruisers using that build?) and will see how it works out without the range.

Also, I remain unconvinced about EM (turrets track well enough during max turn without it on Fanta), so why not go AR instead?

 

 

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28 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Dunno, the Daring is still untouched by glorious Balans, as is the Harugumo...

Daring doesn't have 16km range with excellent ballistics, while she had her concealment brutalized prior launch, as she now sits at 6.0km, compared to "gold standard" Shima and Gearing. She is also THE slowest DD at tier 10, putting her existence into question, especially with Gearing around - similar gunnery without need for IFHE, way better torps of two flavors, faster, tad better concealment and can pretend to have AA.

 

Haru will be eventually touched by IFHE nerf, also keep in mind she still eats AP BB pens.

 

28 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

And yeah, MBRB is pretty neat - unless you run into something like a Daring or Harugumo, then you can grab your ankles and kiss you [edited]goodbye (but then, so can Khaba).

It kinda depends on situation - 1v1, if Daring instasmokes, you don't use MBRB and simply wait his smoke out, you can also throw some fishes his way for warm up. Wait at +-5km, well within his detection range. The moment he opens fire without smoke, you start kiting HARD and blast him with MBRB - Daring guns lose on velocity faster than Croissant 139mm.

 

With Harugumo its kinda similar story, except Haru don't have hydro nor handling to evade torps from smoke unless he immediately GTFO, presumably exposing himself. Still, you don't want to push without DD in front of you anyway unless late game and you know what to expect ahead.

28 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

I have IFHE instead of AFT atm (dont you have problems with cruisers using that build?) and will see how it works out without the range.

Also, I remain unconvinced about EM (turrets track well enough during max turn without it on Fanta), so why not go AR instead?

 

IFHE on DD can be of use on tier 7-8 DD, as you have the largest amount of ships you can dent with. At tier 10, where almost every cruiser have 30mm amidship or more, IFHE won't help you, while you're losing on fire chance against hightier BBs anyway.

 

Fanta without EM is "bearable", but on Mogador onwards, when running MBM3, you will need it. Also at shorter ranges, when ships were moving in opposite directions AND doing hard turns, I had cases of turrets breaking off target, including Fanta+EM

 

EM also reduces time you spend waiting when switching broadsides.

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27 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Daring doesn't have 16km range with excellent ballistics, while she had her concealment brutalized prior launch, as she now sits at 6.0km, compared to "gold standard" Shima and Gearing. She is also THE slowest DD at tier 10, putting her existence into question, especially with Gearing around - similar gunnery without need for IFHE, way better torps of two flavors, faster, tad better concealment and can pretend to have AA.

 

Haru will be eventually touched by IFHE nerf, also keep in mind she still eats AP BB pens.

 

It kinda depends on situation - 1v1, if Daring instasmokes, you don't use MBRB and simply wait his smoke out, you can also throw some fishes his way for warm up. Wait at +-5km, well within his detection range. The moment he opens fire without smoke, you start kiting HARD and blast him with MBRB - Daring guns lose on velocity faster than Croissant 139mm.

 

With Harugumo its kinda similar story, except Haru don't have hydro nor handling to evade torps from smoke unless he immediately GTFO, presumably exposing himself. Still, you don't want to push without DD in front of you anyway unless late game and you know what to expect ahead.

That depends on the Daring / Harugumo [edited]up in a truly spectacular fashion. Both have the initiative to choose their fights.

Basically they ambush the spotted french DD, preferably with  someone else in range to spot the thing around the soon to be dropped smoke. If doing so while prepping by turning to disengage, the french dd will never land a  torp, cant rush and cant kite away (and dont shoot) without losing the trade.

It doesnt matter if MBRB is popped or not, since you dont smoke untill it is popped - and the french DD remains spotted by your ally if played correctly.

Trashed a ton of Mogadors in my Kitakaze during Ranked this way.

 

27 minutes ago, Panocek said:

IFHE on DD can be of use on tier 7-8 DD, as you have the largest amount of ships you can dent with. At tier 10, where almost every cruiser have 30mm amidship or more, IFHE won't help you, while you're losing on fire chance against hightier BBs anyway.

 

Fanta without EM is "bearable", but on Mogador onwards, when running MBM3, you will need it. Also at shorter ranges, when ships were moving in opposite directions AND doing hard turns, I had cases of turrets breaking off target, including Fanta+EM

 

EM also reduces time you spend waiting when switching broadsides.

IFHE works fine on the bow/stern of TX ships (25-27 mm), so all the bowtanking cruisers out there are fair game. 

 

Sounds like EM is more nice to have than need to have - especially on a Khaba playstyle with AFT where dpm is key and traverse shouldnt be an issue most of the time.

Fanta, Mogador and Kleber share the same 18s traverse speed. The difference is the turret angles on Fanta are very bad, forcing almost broadside on sailing if you want to use them all.

Will see how it goes, if I want to respec once hitting the tier 9.

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