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CaptainKreutzer

German aircraft carrier line discussion

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WOOOOOW

just.....WOW!!!!! :cap_fainting:

I like this so much!! But...where did you get all this? I knew about elbe and wesser but didn't know about the proposed tier 8 and 10.

The concept of jet planes Me-262 very fast but with very low survivability is very very interesting. Jet planes that would go over 450 knots with boost is a mind candy :Smile_glasses:

Anyway, as a german navy fan I would LOVE to see these implemented in game one day.

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I have done some changes to stats and planes.

 

-Planes of T4 and T10 are changed.

-ship stats are added.

-plane stats are added. T10 Torpedo/Dive bomber speed is changed.

-AA stats are changed.

 

Me 262 was unreal and hard to balance so they are changed with Me 410 which is similar to Japanese interceptor J5N Tenrai planes.

35b855fe897ffefec1c4f8a5afcac41fb99cfb69r1-262-267_00.gif.0df3f8f409693975a61f2e3a04ea62e8.gif

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Besides moar range on smoll secondaries and maybe some belt armour on the tier 10 cv i do loike the idea of fast non attack planes with lowish damage. I noticed no health values for planes when it comes to the tier 8 but im guessing we are using graf zepp hp pool (although i guess it doesn't have to be the same to make them a bit different).

 

surprised by the low flood chances but im guessing volume of fire makes up for that?

 

I love the ideas doe.

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quite a great line, however the hangar capacities seems extremely large at tier 8 and 10

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Well dude. ^^'
Give with your topic the link of official information; "ST -Germain aircraft carrier - Z35" (for comparison)


And for your planes,
- Why AGAIN twin engine, like Me 410. (on Tier X ?.. O.o)
The J5N and "possibly" Bf110 on August P was stupid for me .. This planes are unable to be conveted on naval version, simple for lot logical & obviusly reason.
With this,  you use on tier VIII (TB and DB) Ta 152. Then this plans is "perfect" tier X. (1945 planes)

The choices of Wg for Tier IV / VI and tier X  it's pretty correctly, but the tier VIII (full and maybe stock for DB) it's realy mad xD


For me this composition would be better. (but this is my opition)

R
hein

  • Arado Ar.68 - Attack Aircraft (AA)
  • Heinkel He. 50 - DB
  • Arado Ar.95b - Torpedo bombers (TB)

 

Weser
Stock

  • Arado Ar.197 - AA
  • Arado Ar.81 - DB
  • Arado Ar.95b - TB

Top

  • Messerschmitt Bf109E / Messerschmitt Bf109T - AA
  • Henschel Hs.123 - DB
  • Fieseler Fi.167 - TB
     

August Parseval
Stock

  • Messerschmitt Bf109T - AA
  • Junker Ju.87C-1 - DB
  • Fieseler Fi.167 - TB

Top

  • Messerschmitt Me. 155-A - AA
  • Junker Ju.87E-1 - DB
  • Focke-Wulf FW190A5-U14 - TB
     

Manfred Richtofen
Stock

  • Focke-Wulf FW190A8 - AA
  • Focke-Wulf FW190G8 - DB
  • Focke-Wulf FW190G8 - TB

Top

  • Messerschmitt Me.155G - AA (but for this planes i would like see the 3D model ..)
  • Ta.152C - DB
  • Ta.152C - TB

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13 dakika önce, SkyKld dedi:

Top

  • Messerschmitt Me.155G - AA (but for this planes i would like see the 3D model ..)
  • Ta.152C - DB
  • Ta.152C - TB

GZ using those aircrafts right now and they don't do well against T10s. 

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For this, i answer USS SAIPAN ..  It have less planes, Tier X too,  it's same deal on tier X battles.
Graf Zeppelin is on top 3 of the best CV tier VIII, so when you say; "
they don't do well against T10s. " it's not actualy  true.

Talking about planes, Gz got the Me155A - not the G version. (I'm curious for this "G" version..) This is all about statistic, but change are still possible. Remember this "new" Cv line that were announced.

Ta 152C is 'maybe' by pure logic on Tier X. However, the spot could be taken by the Fw190D2 R14 (i think it would be more logic) Considering that, Gz could get a change on her planes loadout :)

2O_u4atoS5qOP-S8AkORE_2WaZqK2RCZvgP6gK6-yTBVYYRqmfL9pH6gpMdGKuNMtN6GqMY7TgWXhLpm6E62hI5z-Pps3w.jpg.61378a7e0a71649e64e5b54c3112d2ca.jpgI don't now if this book this available, but it's realy complet :)

You have 'historical' loadout for Graf Zeppelin.

Here loadout for August Perseval on tier VIII.
Stock;

93233844_612116909373131_8283720947261767680_n.thumb.jpg.5791ac19559c2f7679085eaff9d5140f.jpg

Full;  (TB -> Fw190A5 U14  (Using speed) &  DB  ->  Ju87 E-1 )
93707309_263214898054895_7940588772964433920_n.thumb.jpg.20889164e15b6042e51e29061f387f26.jpg
 

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41 minutes ago, SkyKld said:

For this, i answer USS SAIPAN ..  It have less planes, Tier X too,  it's same deal on tier X battles.
Graf Zeppelin is on top 3 of the best CV tier VIII, so when you say; "
they don't do well against T10s. " it's not actualy  true.
 

No, its not ... its dead last in win rate since only Lexington pre-rework is lower and I am not counting pre-rework for the obvious reasons. Only servers were she isnt last is NA (Lexington is dead last) and RU were she is about in the middle.

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1 hour ago, SkyKld said:

For this, i answer USS SAIPAN ..  It have less planes, Tier X too,  it's same deal on tier X battles.
Graf Zeppelin is on top 3 of the best CV tier VIII, so when you say; "
they don't do well against T10s. " it's not actualy  true.

Talking about planes, Gz got the Me155A - not the G version. (I'm curious for this "G" version..) This is all about statistic, but change are still possible. Remember this "new" Cv line that were announced.

Ta 152C is 'maybe' by pure logic on Tier X. However, the spot could be taken by the Fw190D2 R14 (i think it would be more logic) Considering that, Gz could get a change on her planes loadout :)

2O_u4atoS5qOP-S8AkORE_2WaZqK2RCZvgP6gK6-yTBVYYRqmfL9pH6gpMdGKuNMtN6GqMY7TgWXhLpm6E62hI5z-Pps3w.jpg.61378a7e0a71649e64e5b54c3112d2ca.jpgI don't now if this book this available, but it's realy complet :)

You have 'historical' loadout for Graf Zeppelin.

Here loadout for August Perseval on tier VIII.
Stock;

93233844_612116909373131_8283720947261767680_n.thumb.jpg.5791ac19559c2f7679085eaff9d5140f.jpg

Full;  (TB -> Fw190A5 U14  (Using speed) &  DB  ->  Ju87 E-1 )
93707309_263214898054895_7940588772964433920_n.thumb.jpg.20889164e15b6042e51e29061f387f26.jpg
 

i just want to know how you came across stats that said graf zeppelin is top 3, since it feels weaker than almost any other tier 8 cv
indommitable has infinite bombers

saipan has extreme alpha damage per airstrike

kaga has insane reserves

enterprise is enterprise

shokaku has great damage

lexington has good damage and good health

implacable is meh probably only cv worse than zeppy

graf zeppelin has terrible ap bombers, slow torpedoes, and really slow attack aircraft, it is a good heavy cruiser, not a good carrier

 

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13 minutes ago, siraiaw said:

i just want to know how you came across stats that said graf zeppelin is top 3, since it feels weaker than any other tier 8 cv


My stat (but yes, i quickly stopped playing Cv, after the rework). and number of Gz or Gz B on game.
I know this ship is maybe not the "BEST" but is not a trash; I understand he need change (like on CV and rework) however this is another problem..

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Just now, SkyKld said:


My stat (but yes, i quickly stopped playing Cv, after the rework). and number of Gz or Gz B on game.
I know this ship is maybe not the "BEST" but is not a trash; I understand he need change (like on CV and rework) however this is another problem..

the reason for the high number of gz players is that its secondaries makes it a good heavy cruiser, not a good carrier it is a terrible carrier, and it got heavily nerfed a few weeks after the cv rework, the reason people play it is that it is fun due to the secondaries

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I understand and i know it; So when you say " not a good carrier it is a terrible carrier, " it's not actualy  true. (yes again)
- Rocket, pretty like of Tiny Tim for Sarratoga (Lexington) and yes not perfect, but you have 4 rocket per planes. (but yes this weapons is "noob-friendly.")
- Torpedos bombers,  yes "just" 5 333 max damages, but 3 torpedos and fast planes. More damage "maybe" could be help..
- Bombers,  For me the real problem is here.. With this brainless "circle" pattern and damned this RNG..

However the stat on ship has been compromised by bad player and the hype with this ship..

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2 minutes ago, SkyKld said:

I understand and i know it; So when you say " not a good carrier it is a terrible carrier, " it's not actualy  true. (yes again)
- Rocket, pretty like of Tiny Tim for Sarratoga (Lexington) and yes not perfect, but you have 4 rocket per planes. (but yes this weapons is "noob-friendly.")
- Torpedos bombers,  yes "just" 5 333 max damages, but 3 torpedos and fast planes. More damage "maybe" could be help..
- Bombers,  For me the real problem is here.. With this brainless "circle" pattern and damned this RNG..

However the stat on ship has been compromised by bad player and the hype with this ship..

the torpedoes are slow, and the rockets i admit are okay, but the americans deal 6400 damage and they also send three

the rocket planes move slowly, it can be an advantage in some cases where they are easy to aim, but there are just better options, the american tiny tims deal double the damage per rocket, and sends half the number, and their aircraft move at a speed of 170 knots where the germans move at a speed of 136 knots, it means that the german aircraft are gonna be in aa for longer. the problem is not the cirkle pattern, as at zeppys release it was fine, great actually, the problem is the sigma that makes it so the bombs almost always hit the edges of the pattern, and the dive where the bombers does not do a straight downwards attack like it did just after release.

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I will add these here-

  • Zeppelin restores aircrafts like T8, unlike Saipan and Indomitable
  • Planes have health just bit more then T8 Japanese aircrafts but less then standard T8 American Aircrafts.
  • Torpedo damage is compensated by plane speed and easy to use torpedos(35 knots speed and 470 meters arming distance)unlike announced CV line
  • Rocket planes on Zeppy might be slow but its very easy to turn thus making it very easy to handle DDs.
  • Dive bombers are really RNG with 2 bombs but bombs have Hakuryuu panetration.
  • But heath of planes pretends attack on most T10s I mean I can't pick T10s mostly even if they are single(Maybe Yama or late game Kremlin).

Problem is German CV tech tree looks nothing like this

  • Their health is below Japanese aircrafts.
  • Plane speed is just 4 knot faster then Japan.(Only at T10 it's faster by 20 knots)
  • AP Rockets their gimmick but i also like to see those GZ HE rockets.
  • Torpedo Damage high but torpedos are very hard to use with 25 knots 748 meters arming distance at T10 unlike GZ.
  • Dive bombers fixed tho although their Damage looks weak at T10 i suppose they gonna be able to pen anything very easily even CVs.
  • Same Health problems at T10 DBs have very close health as T4 carrier Hosho DBs. And Torpedo bombers has same health as GZ TBs but suprisangly they are slower by 7 knots then GZ planes. 

Graf Zeppelin isn't terrible. She's very great but tricky unlike Kaga or Enterprise or any T8 CV. You need time mastering her but when you do she's very powerfull that torpedo bomber speed and dive bomber speed means constant attacks on enemy. But WG decided to mess it when making this line. Torpedos are terrible even tho their damage is high. Dive bomber healths are messed up. Rockets are still unknown and they used T8 Aircrafts at T10.

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Siraiaw, well 3 rockets per planes.. yes on tier X,( Midway) not on Tier VIII (Lex) this is not comparable.

 

Ygtozkn1903,  I know read the informations on my ship and on Dev blog. Thanks you.
I know the issue with the German CV tree. However don't forget this ship is always on development and WG can still bring modification to the GZ.

The CV Rework is a failure, and a bitter one. Enterprise case demonstrates it. Now we got this new CV line and it is totally useless. Well, not like that matter. WG never knew how to balance CV anyway.

And now just wait.. and hope to Wg change ALL rework Cv. And stop assistantship on the game ^^

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On 7/25/2019 at 2:05 PM, CaptainKreutzer said:

I have redesigned CV line to play Similar to GZ.

These are not real stats tho.

TIV

Rhein

1.thumb.jpg.62f068e2642031e1785ec98264ee3a19.jpg

HP-32,300,plating-16 mm

Secondary armament:

2 x 2 105 mm,range - 4.5 km

Maximum HE damage -1,200.chance to cause fire -5%

Maximum speed - 26,0 kt. Turning circle radius - 760 meters. Rudder shift time - 8.6 seconds. Surface detection - 9.5 km. Air detectibility - 7.5 km

Available consumables

Slot 1 - Damage control party

slot 2 - Fighter

 

Aircraft:

Attack Aircraft

Hit points - 1,150, cruising speed - 95.0 kts, Maximum speed - 130 kts, Size of attacking squad - 3, Aircraft per squadron - 6, Aircraft restrotion time - 44 s, Detectibility range - 10 km, Number of aircraft on deck - 9. Rockets in payload - 1. Rocket type - AP. Maximum rocket Damage - 1600.

 

Torpedo Bombers

 Hit points - 1,440, cruising speed - 120.0 kts, Maximum speed - 170 kts, Size of attacking squad - 2, Aircraft per squadron - 6, Aircraft restrotion time - 59 s, Detectibility range - 10 km, Number of aircraft on deck - 9. Torpedos in payload - 1. Maximum torpedo Damage - 4900. Arial torpedo speed - 35 knots. Torpedo range - 6 km. Torpedo arming distance - 470 meters

 

Dive Bombers

Hit points - 1,440, cruising speed - 120.0 kts, Maximum speed - 170.0 kts, Size of attacking squad - 2, Aircraft per squadron - 6, Aircraft restrotion time - 55 s, Detectibility range - 10 km, Number of aircraft on deck - 9. Bombs in payload - 1. Bomb type - AP. Maximum Bomb Damage - 3000.

 

TVI

Weser

2.thumb.jpg.fecccd58f3b4c27b015a75dff2dce67f.jpg

HP-41,000,plating-16 mm

Secondary armament:

5 x 2 105 mm,range - 5 km

Maximum HE damage -1,200.chance to cause fire -5%

Maximum speed - 32,0 kt. Turning circle radius - 930 meters. Rudder shift time - 10.6 seconds. Surface detection - 12.1 km. Air detectibility - 9.5 km

Available consumables

Slot 1 - Damage control party

slot 2 - Fighter

 

Aircraft:

Attack Aircraft

Hit points - 1,270, cruising speed - 120.0 kts, Maximum speed - 170 kts, Size of attacking squad - 2, Aircraft per squadron - 8, Aircraft restrotion time - 58 s, Detectibility range - 10 km, Number of aircraft on deck - 12. Rockets in payload - 4. Rocket type - AP. Maximum rocket Damage - 1,600.

 

Torpedo Bombers

 Hit points - 1,620, cruising speed - 154.0 kts, Maximum speed - 204 kts, Size of attacking squad - 2, Aircraft per squadron - 8, Aircraft restrotion time - 73 s, Detectibility range - 10 km, Number of aircraft on deck - 12. Torpedos in payload - 1. Maximum torpedo Damage - 5100. Arial torpedo speed - 35 knots. Torpedo range - 6 km. Torpedo arming distance - 470 meters

 

Dive Bombers

Hit points - 1,620, cruising speed - 156.0 kts, Maximum speed - 206.0 kts, Size of attacking squad - 2, Aircraft per squadron - 8, Aircraft restrotion time - 68 s, Detectibility range - 10 km, Number of aircraft on deck - 12. Bombs in payload - 1. Bomb type - AP. Maximum Bomb Damage - 6000.

 

TVIII

August Parseval

3.thumb.jpg.95eb2689f4e167204a097d750474b8ea.jpg

HP-51,400,plating - 21 mm

Secondary armament:

6 x 2 105 mm, range - 7 km

Maximum HE damage -1,200.chance to cause fire -5%

Maximum speed - 32,0 kt. Turning circle radius - 1,140 meters. Rudder shift time - 13 seconds. Surface detection - 13.5 km. Air detectibility - 11.2 km

Available consumables

Slot 1 - Damage control party

slot 2 - Fighter

 

Aircraft:

Attack Aircraft

Hit points - 1,320, cruising speed - 136.0 kts, Maximum speed - 180 kts, Size of attacking squad - 3, Aircraft per squadron - 9, Aircraft restrotion time - 66 s, Detectibility range - 10 km, Number of aircraft on deck - 14. Rockets in payload - 4. Rocket type - AP. Maximum rocket Damage - 2,100.

 

Torpedo Bombers

 Hit points - 1,710, cruising speed - 180.0 kts, Maximum speed - 227 kts, Size of attacking squad - 3, Aircraft per squadron - 9, Aircraft restrotion time - 80 s, Detectibility range - 10 km, Number of aircraft on deck - 14. Torpedos in payload - 1. Maximum torpedo Damage - 5333. Arial torpedo speed - 35 knots. Torpedo range - 6 km. Torpedo arming distance - 470 meters

 

Dive Bombers

Hit points - 1,640, cruising speed - 180.0 kts, Maximum speed - 227.0 kts, Size of attacking squad - 3, Aircraft per squadron - 9, Aircraft restrotion time - 76 s, Detectibility range - 10 km, Number of aircraft on deck - 14. Bombs in payload - 1. Bomb type - AP. Maximum Bomb Damage - 7000.

 

 

TX

Manfred Richtofen

2064807832_4(1).thumb.jpg.5ebcb0a22a3c7d39c30623735ded683f.jpg

 

HP-65,500,plating - 21 mm

Secondary armament:

12 x 2 105 mm, range - 7.2 km

Maximum HE damage -1,200.chance to cause fire -5%

Maximum speed - 32,0 kt. Turning circle radius - 1200 meters. Rudder shift time - 16.4 seconds. Surface detection - 14 km. Air detectibility - 14.2 km

Available consumables

Slot 1 - Damage control party

slot 2 - Fighter

 

Aircraft:

Attack Aircraft

Hit points - 1,550, cruising speed - 140.0 kts, Maximum speed - 190 kts, Size of attacking squad - 3, Aircraft per squadron - 9, Aircraft restrotion time - 84 s, Detectibility range - 10 km, Number of aircraft on deck - 14. Rockets in payload - 2. Rocket type - AP. Maximum rocket Damage - 4000.

 

Torpedo Bombers

 Hit points - 1,910, cruising speed - 190.0 kts, Maximum speed - 236 kts, Size of attacking squad - 3, Aircraft per squadron - 9, Aircraft restrotion time - 99 s, Detectibility range - 10 km, Number of aircraft on deck - 14. Torpedos in payload - 1. Maximum torpedo Damage - 5355. Arial torpedo speed - 35 knots. Torpedo range - 6 km. Torpedo arming distance - 510 meters

 

Dive Bombers

Hit points - 1,870, cruising speed - 190.0 kts, Maximum speed - 234.0 kts, Size of attacking squad - 3, Aircraft per squadron - 12, Aircraft restrotion time - 76 s, Detectibility range - 10 km, Number of aircraft on deck - 16. Bombs in payload - 1. Bomb type - AP. Maximum Bomb Damage - 7100.

 

Aircrafts that supposed to be on the line:

Rhein

  • Arado.68 (AA)
  • Fi 167(TB)
  • Fi 167(DB)

Weser

Stock

  • Arado.167(AA)
  • Fi 167(TB)
  • Fi 167(DB)

Top

  • Bf 109 T(AA)
  • Ju 87 C(TB)
  • Ju 87 C(DB)

August Parseval

Stock

  • Bf 109 T(AA)
  • Ju 87 C(TB)
  • Ju 87 C(DB)

Top

  • Me 155A(AA)
  • Ta-152 C(TB)
  • Ta-152 C(DB)

Manfred Richtofen

Stock

  • Me 155A(AA)
  • Ta-152 C(TB)
  • Ta-152 C(DB)

Top

  • Fw-190 A8(AA)
  • Me 410 A(TB)
  • Me 410 A(DB)

 

 

Everything in the offical stats are soooo so bad and choices WG done was soo wrong i decided to make my own proposal again. And we need Stuka's. And we need CV line continues the stye of GZ.

fgw7b0heg8ly.thumb.png.7b1289b8e187382e795a91103d3e053b.png

Focke-Wulf_Fw_190_050602-F-1234P-005.thumb.jpg.3ae5d78c99e40d6283a43c8c27fcde5e.jpg

 

Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1977-110-06,_Flugzeug_Fieseler_Fi_167.jpg

618f3acd93ddb5a01b44499b67153ccd.jpg

Messerschmitt_Me-410A-1-U2_Hornisse,_Germany_-_Air_Force_AN1139884.jpg

I appreciate the new German cv line. But dude does it have the same German  dispersion of AP bombs. Its really frustrating playing Graff Zeppelin. Depending only on Torpedoes and rocket planes on zeppelin. If ur RNG is with u. U might get one citadel. 

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7 hours ago, SLEDGE_HAMMER_963 said:

I appreciate the new German cv line. But dude does it have the same German  dispersion of AP bombs. Its really frustrating playing Graff Zeppelin. Depending only on Torpedoes and rocket planes on zeppelin. If ur RNG is with u. U might get one citadel. 

Right now they have normal CV dispersion similar to Japanese CVs.

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On 4/13/2020 at 4:07 PM, SkyKld said:

For this, i answer USS SAIPAN ..  It have less planes, Tier X too,  it's same deal on tier X battles.
Graf Zeppelin is on top 3 of the best CV tier VIII, so when you say; "
they don't do well against T10s. " it's not actualy  true.

Talking about planes, Gz got the Me155A - not the G version. (I'm curious for this "G" version..) This is all about statistic, but change are still possible. Remember this "new" Cv line that were announced.

Ta 152C is 'maybe' by pure logic on Tier X. However, the spot could be taken by the Fw190D2 R14 (i think it would be more logic) Considering that, Gz could get a change on her planes loadout :)

2O_u4atoS5qOP-S8AkORE_2WaZqK2RCZvgP6gK6-yTBVYYRqmfL9pH6gpMdGKuNMtN6GqMY7TgWXhLpm6E62hI5z-Pps3w.jpg.61378a7e0a71649e64e5b54c3112d2ca.jpgI don't now if this book this available, but it's realy complet :)

You have 'historical' loadout for Graf Zeppelin.

Here loadout for August Perseval on tier VIII.
Stock;

93233844_612116909373131_8283720947261767680_n.thumb.jpg.5791ac19559c2f7679085eaff9d5140f.jpg

Full;  (TB -> Fw190A5 U14  (Using speed) &  DB  ->  Ju87 E-1 )
93707309_263214898054895_7940588772964433920_n.thumb.jpg.20889164e15b6042e51e29061f387f26.jpg
 

 

The LOS #48 magazine issue  you refer to can be found here:

 

https://www.docdroid.net/DDh46rf/graf-zeppelin-los-48-pdf

 

From what I can see that magazine is based on the data in the 3D booklet by Stefan Draminski and uses the 3D model made by him.

 

The data that Stefan Draminski used for his 3D model and his 3D booklet is rather dated and frankly incorrect. Alas his 3D model too is incorrect and missing some key features that GRAF ZEPPELIN had.

 

The most correct and up to date information on the GRAF ZEPPELIN and her aircaft is the book by Ulrich Israel and the booklet by Richard Wagner and Manfred Wilske.

 

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