Jump to content
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
Sunleader

Make the Map Border behave the same way as an Island.

148 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[THESO]
Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters
2,832 posts
6,850 battles

Topic Title says it all to be Honest.

Again and Again lately. What I see is Cruisers and BBs drive into the Border on purpose and then keep driving into it so they can stay angled while still moving and being hard to hit and hard to Aim at.

 

 

Driving into the Border should be Punished. As its a Failure of the Player.

But right now it is Rewarded by making you Harder to Hit and allowing you to stay Angled against Enemies without closing or increasing the Distance.

 

 

Either make it behave like an Island. So if you hit the Border you get Stuck and have to Reverse.

Or make it a Hard Wall which behaves like your Ramming a Ship pushing you broadside to the Border if Nose in on it Stopping you hard. So it cant be abused to make you harder to hit...

  • Cool 10
  • Funny 1
  • Boring 1
  • Bad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LEEUW]
Players
1,996 posts
9,856 battles
8 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Topic Title says it all to be Honest.

Again and Again lately. What I see is Cruisers and BBs drive into the Border on purpose and then keep driving into it so they can stay angled while still moving and being hard to hit and hard to Aim at.

Driving into the Border should be Punished. As its a Failure of the Player.

But right now it is Rewarded by making you Harder to Hit and allowing you to stay Angled against Enemies without closing or increasing the Distance.

Either make it behave like an Island. So if you hit the Border you get Stuck and have to Reverse.

Or make it a Hard Wall which behaves like your Ramming a Ship pushing you broadside to the Border if Nose in on it Stopping you hard. So it cant be abused to make you harder to hit...

It is already punished by lowering your speed. So if you cant hit that the problem isnt with borderhugging but with your aim.

 

 

 

Also: CV player complaining about borderhuggers? whut. That makes for the easiest of targets....... Weird.

  • Cool 7
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CZWSM]
[CZWSM]
Players
371 posts
18,249 battles

A storm in a teacup... It is one of the most marginal problems in the game, here is a dazillion of more important problems :)

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ADRIA]
Players
265 posts
11,909 battles
4 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

It is already punished by lowering your speed. So if you cant hit that the problem isnt with borderhugging but with your aim.

It does not do it fast enough you can move faster ships like hiv sideways for quite some time and not lose your speed below 30kts. Ive seen it win and lose games in clan battles. You shot your salvo be4 the target ship hits the border and all of a sudden the target ship is drifting sideways missing your salvo. 

 

Those situations shouldn't determine an outcome of the battle. 

  • Cool 2
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
6,443 posts
245 battles

When nasty ship hits map border and sunleader needs to go on a mission to root it out!

 

 

 

 

On a more serious note i think there was a suggestion for reducing hp like friendly ramming but more severe (like a few 100hp more or something might be wrongz).

 

i only botch up my first shot when ships do that because im not used to such a situation happening often. Noice for meh maaaasss doe. :Smile_trollface:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LEEUW]
Players
1,996 posts
9,856 battles
6 minutes ago, Miki12345 said:

It does not do it fast enough you can move faster ships like hiv sideways for quite some time and not lose your speed below 30kts. Ive seen it win and lose games in clan battles. You shot your salvo be4 the target ship hits the border and all of a sudden the target ship is drifting sideways missing your salvo. 

 

Those situations shouldn't determine an outcome of the battle. 

If he is sideways there is no way for him to dodge the shells besides slowing down. Cant go right and cant go left. Should be an easy target to shoot at. :Smile_amazed:

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ADRIA]
Players
265 posts
11,909 battles
Just now, GarrusBrutus said:

If he is sideways there is no way for him to dodge the shells besides slowing down. Cant go right and cant go left. Should be an easy target to shoot at. :Smile_amazed:

Thats the thing he isnt sideways, he is stern on to you but the ship is moving sideways, left or right. You can try it in the training room. I for one am guilty of exploiting that when it comes to saving the few hp i had. Sometimes its really frustrating. 

  • Cool 2
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[THESO]
Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters
2,832 posts
6,850 battles
15 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

It is already punished by lowering your speed. So if you cant hit that the problem isnt with borderhugging but with your aim.

 

 

 

Also: CV player complaining about borderhuggers? whut. That makes for the easiest of targets....... Weird.

 

Yeah after how lon does it do that and how much does it reduce the speed ?

I had People Drive into Border for about 2 Minutes and still not getting stopped or slowed down enough to matter.

 

And no Mate. The Problem is with Borderhugging. My Aim is Perfectly Fine.

And that means something in my case as I play German BBs.

 

As for being a CV Player.

I am a BB Main.

I only Started CVs two Months ago to prove they are overpowered and will allow any potato with half a Brain to perform well.

 

13 minutes ago, Max_Kammerer said:

A storm in a teacup... It is one of the most marginal problems in the game, here is a dazillion of more important problems :)

 

Irrelevant.

This Problem is a Problem and its easy to Fix.

 

Pushing up Problems you can fix in 2 hours in favor of ones that you wont fix for the next 3 years anyways is stupid.

 

3 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

If he is sideways there is no way for him to dodge the shells besides slowing down. Cant go right and cant go left. Should be an easy target to shoot at. :Smile_amazed:

 

He means Driving SIDEWAYS.

 

This is quite common.

People Nose into the Border at Full Speed.

So they basicly Drive Sideways while the Nose is still Fully Aiming the Border.

 

This is a Giant Advantage. Because if you were heading for an island you would have only two choices.

Beach yourself.

Or turn Broadside the Enemy.

But on the Border you get Rewarded. Because you can just Keep yourself Completely Angled but still keep moving without presenting Broadside to the Enemy.

  • Cool 2
  • Funny 1
  • Boring 1
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[NWP]
Beta Tester
1,717 posts
15,878 battles
24 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

So if you cant hit that the problem isnt with borderhugging but with your aim.

Which would be true if you would actually aim yourself. But with the known issue of the build-in aim assist being rather crap at hitting stationary and/or slow moving targets (accelerating full forward or backward) I can understand that people are having difficulties effectively hitting border sliding targets...

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TAW]
Players
219 posts
7,025 battles

The player on the border deliberately or otherwise still has to be able to get off the border, if the slow down is anymore severe you may have people actually stuck on the border; drive into the border and then try reversing off it and you'll get a feel for the opposite end of the issue.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[MORIA]
Players
7,209 posts
33,801 battles
1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

I had People Drive into Border for about 2 Minutes and still not getting stopped or slowed down enough to matter.

Once I was stuck on border for no :etc_swear: reason. Couldn't reverse out of it, nor move at all. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
8,793 posts
8,664 battles

If the Mapborder is supposed to be like an island, then you might aswell just put land around the entire map :Smile_teethhappy:

But id prefer, if you would take damage after a few seconds.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
1,839 posts
11,256 battles
5 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

 

He means Driving SIDEWAYS.

 

This is quite common.

People Nose into the Border at Full Speed.

So they basicly Drive Sideways while the Nose is still Fully Aiming the Border.

 

This is a Giant Advantage. Because if you were heading for an island you would have only two choices.

Beach yourself.

Or turn Broadside the Enemy.

But on the Border you get Rewarded. Because you can just Keep yourself Completely Angled but still keep moving without presenting Broadside to the Enemy.

 I really cant see the issue, even if he is still angeled he will hardly be moving at all if he pretty much are facing right into the border so just shoot at his stern? If you cant pen, shoot HE and if he still just sitting there then you german secondarys will soon work him over!? 

 

If you have a hard time hitting him, then jist sequence fire and adjust aim.

 

My point beeing what ever he chooses to do you win. Hes trapped. If he tries to run he will need to present a almost stationary broadside to you at some point?

 

So where lies the issue?

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[POP]
Weekend Tester
989 posts

A fast enough a ship is almost impossible to hit for a good while while it's hugging the border. Eventually they will slow down, but at first they can change direction almost instantaneously. It would be much better if you could turn around on the spot so that you can get out of the situation fairly quickly and you're not instantly screwed if you scrape the border a bit (and no way to get stuck like in an island), but you'd stop instantly and wouldn't stop moving until you point your nose away from the border and accelerate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
7,487 posts
8,296 battles
6 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Yeah after how lon does it do that and how much does it reduce the speed ?

I had People Drive into Border for about 2 Minutes and still not getting stopped or slowed down enough to matter.

It does that immediately and reduces engine power by like 3/4. If you ram a heavy ship full speed in the map border full on, good luck getting unstuck anytime soon.

6 hours ago, Sunleader said:

And no Mate. The Problem is with Borderhugging. My Aim is Perfectly Fine.

And that means something in my case as I play German BBs.

They move along the border at a snails pace. It's certainly not too hard to hit. German BB or not. Also, they only move along one single axis while stuck. All you get to do is correctly estimate their sideways motion along the border.

6 hours ago, Sunleader said:

This is quite common.

People Nose into the Border at Full Speed.

So they basicly Drive Sideways while the Nose is still Fully Aiming the Border.

 

This is a Giant Advantage. Because if you were heading for an island you would have only two choices.

Beach yourself.

Or turn Broadside the Enemy.

But on the Border you get Rewarded. Because you can just Keep yourself Completely Angled but still keep moving without presenting Broadside to the Enemy.

You don't get rewarded really, because to any competent player, you are not hard to hit and you aren't going to get away anytime soon. Reward would mean you get something, but you don't, you lose your engine power and most of your movement options (as you can't go further forward and are slow to reverse). If people stay angled at the border, it's usually not great, it's the less terrible option compared to giving broadside after you run out of map space.

 

And no, a map border is not an island and should not act like one. It already has repercussions and complaints feel like it's years ago, when ships retained all their engine power and could just glide along with little repercusion... like planes can now, when they can pull insta-180° turns, because reasons...

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[THESO]
Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters
2,832 posts
6,850 battles
2 hours ago, OldschoolGaming_YouTube said:

 I really cant see the issue, even if he is still angeled he will hardly be moving at all if he pretty much are facing right into the border so just shoot at his stern? If you cant pen, shoot HE and if he still just sitting there then you german secondarys will soon work him over!? 

 

If you have a hard time hitting him, then jist sequence fire and adjust aim.

 

My point beeing what ever he chooses to do you win. Hes trapped. If he tries to run he will need to present a almost stationary broadside to you at some point?

 

So where lies the issue?

 

Sure. Because you always have time to Shoot him with low damage HE and he is not shooting back or anything.

 

The Issue is that he can move in a way you cant tell from range.

You cant tell his Speed or Direction accurately which makes him really hard to hit.

 

And lol.

No he isnt trapped at all.

Its not like an island where he cant move anymore.

He can constantly keep moving away without showing you a Broadside.

Thats the Point you know.

 

 

2 hours ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

It does that immediately and reduces engine power by like 3/4. If you ram a heavy ship full speed in the map border full on, good luck getting unstuck anytime soon.

They move along the border at a snails pace. It's certainly not too hard to hit. German BB or not. Also, they only move along one single axis while stuck. All you get to do is correctly estimate their sideways motion along the border.

You don't get rewarded really, because to any competent player, you are not hard to hit and you aren't going to get away anytime soon. Reward would mean you get something, but you don't, you lose your engine power and most of your movement options (as you can't go further forward and are slow to reverse). If people stay angled at the border, it's usually not great, it's the less terrible option compared to giving broadside after you run out of map space.

 

And no, a map border is not an island and should not act like one. It already has repercussions and complaints feel like it's years ago, when ships retained all their engine power and could just glide along with little repercusion... like planes can now, when they can pull insta-180° turns, because reasons...

 

1.

Engine Power.

Not Speed.

Which means he will not just never stop.

But also will take forever to actually slow down.

 

2.

Which you cant estimate because you have no indicator for his Speed and he can change his direction almost instantly cause he just needs to tip his nose around....

 

3.

You get Rewarded.

You are much harder to hit than if you beached or got forced to broadside by an Island.

 

And lol.

I never saw anyone forced to reverse from a border.

They just keep driving till they can turn around without showing broadside or either party is dead.

 

4.

It should act like one.

Because engine power or not.

It makes you harder to hit.

Leaving the Battlefield should be punished.

Not rewarded.

 

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,106 posts
9,031 battles

I believe this "feature" is being abused a lot by some.

 

The simple solution would be to take a small % of the HP. It would be an instant fix.

  • Cool 3
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[MORIA]
Players
7,209 posts
33,801 battles
5 hours ago, Sunleader said:

The Issue is that he can move in a way you cant tell from range.

You cant tell his Speed or Direction accurately which makes him really hard to hit.

It depends. The most trollish ones are Henry, French DDs and Khaba, also Georgia and Bourgogne as the only BBs. Others? Pretty much easy to hit. Especially BBs. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[COR3]
Players
1,321 posts
12,751 battles

I don't really see an issue there. If you can see ho he twists just determine what kind of maneuver he does aim and fire. Ususally turning out of the border are the best DEV Strikes to come by. *shrug*

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,673 posts

I just dont shoot them, too much trouble and they usually end up ded fast anyway, plus they're kinda out of the way. Then again I've been known to use ludicrous tactics and schemes no one agrees wit so yeah, there's that :Smile_child:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[THESO]
Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters
2,832 posts
6,850 battles
12 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

It depends. The most trollish ones are Henry, French DDs and Khaba, also Georgia and Bourgogne as the only BBs. Others? Pretty much easy to hit. Especially BBs. 

 

I cant tell why that would depend on the Ship Type.

But the Fact is. They are Harder to Hit than Ships which Rammed each other or which Beached themselves or which are Forced to Show Broadside to Avoid such a Scenario.

 

And that is the thing.

Currently when you Reach the Border for whatever reason.

 

The action of Ramming it. Is Favorable over the action of avoiding it.

 

 

And this is wrong.

It should not be the case.

 

The Action of Ramming the Border should be the least Favorable Choice to make.

 

Just like when your heading onto an Island and got the Choice to either Beach or Turn Broadside.

Most People will Turn Broadside because Beaching means they are Stationary.

 

6 minutes ago, The_Reichtangle said:

I don't really see an issue there. If you can see ho he twists just determine what kind of maneuver he does aim and fire. Ususally turning out of the border are the best DEV Strikes to come by. *shrug*

 

You cant.

Once someone is Humping the Border. You have no Indicator for his Movement Speed and even the Direction is extremely hard to tell depending on your own Relative Position to the Border.

 

And well. If People were Forced to Turn out of the Border that would be Fine.

I have no Trouble with People Ramming the Border by Accident and then Turning out of it again.

 

Thing is.

Some People Ram the Border Completely on Purpose and they do not Turn out of it.

They keep using the Border to Maneuver into an direction favorable to them while staying completely angled to you.

 

3 minutes ago, lossi_2018 said:

I just dont shoot them, too much trouble and they usually end up ded fast anyway, plus they're kinda out of the way. Then again I've been known to use ludicrous tactics and schemes no one agrees wit so yeah, there's that :Smile_child:

 

Well sometimes you dont have a Choice.

Because People will on purpose stay close to the Border so they can hug it.

 

I see this alot lately.

A BB comes around the Flank. Close to the Border.

Then upon being in range. Turns into the Border and and angles away from you.

After that then using the Rudder to change the nose to allow its front guns to Fire and then angle back out.

All without going forward but simply while sliding sideways on the Border and thus effectively having a Kiting Position with optimal evasion properties despite barely increasing the Distance and without offering the Option to the Enemy to Just turn around and go out of range unless the Enemy Turns as well and presents his broadside to start a Pursuit. .

  • Cool 1
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[COR3]
Players
1,321 posts
12,751 battles
2 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

You cant.

Once someone is Humping the Border. You have no Indicator for his Movement Speed and even the Direction is extremely hard to tell depending on your own Relative Position to the Border.

You mean you can't. I got quiet proficient with it. See the mapborder is a flatline so you only have to take in account a lateral movement , that is it range is the same. Hard part is predicting that movement.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LEEUW]
Players
1,996 posts
9,856 battles
45 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Because People will on purpose stay close to the Border so they can hug it.

 

I see this alot lately.

Maybe we play different games but in my last hundred games I haven't seen people doing this. And the last time I saw someone do this he was a 45% wr guy who was the last alive (and not for long). Sorry but I just disagree that this is a major issue. Yes some people run into the border but with the current speedpenalty in place it isn't favorable to be on the border permanently like it was before. People who run into the border will have to turn around and sail the other way because if they don't then they're an easy target. 

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BODEM]
Players
676 posts
6,346 battles
16 hours ago, Sunleader said:

.....angled while still moving and being hard to hit....

 

 

.....without closing or increasing the Distance.

 

Which of the two is it? Are they "still moving" or are they "not closing or increasing the distance"? Because if it's the latter (angled with no chance in distance, that's exactly the same as standing still, which is afaik not illegal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×