Yamato is SPECIAL

[ShinGetsu]

Georgia isn't bad at all. I love mine. It's the kind of BB which rewards me with 120-140k damage with around 30 shells hits, which is a far better damage per shell ratio than on most of my other BBs.

It IS accurate and there's no denying that. At the same range as Montana it gets around 50m less dispersion and this is absolutely huge.

But on the other hand it only got 6 guns so when the dispersions derps it is very noticeable.

 

The slow shells means you have to be careful with your aiming too, and targets only enemies that aren't likely to dodge.

 

It's a fun boat and definitely a strong tier 9. But calling it OP is objectively wrong.

[almitov]

13 hours ago, lafeel said:

Georgia? Accurate? Surely you jest, regardless of what the wowswiki article says..

In my experience Georgia's guns are really accurate. The speed, secondaries, alpha per shell and accuracy make this ship my favorite T9 by far. My stats with it may not reflect it fully, as I either have a great game with 200K+ damage, cap assists and generally being a pain in the @ss for the enemies OR I die in the first few minutes like a total n00b. I am working on the latter of course.

 

Overall with Yamato I feel more effective in defending a zone while with Georgia I prefer to lead the offense. Both are BBs, both can troll with dispersion and overpenetrations, but it feels like that happens a lot less often with Georgia. As I mentioned before, Yamato tends to troll me almost every time I am in a life-or-death situation. For overall experience it is good though.

[Hopeless_Guppy]

I have learnt t love my Yamato, taking her out more often than even my shiny new Kremlin, she is still an awesome beast, oh and the sound of those guns.

[redraven]

Yamato is special in the sense as a special needs kid.

The shells are either going pixel perfect where you aim or they are trying to hit ships in different battles. And it happens at all ranges. I once managed to overpen an Alabama when hitting its 340mm belt armor. At 3 k range. 
Yamato is a bunch of nonsense. Absolutely trollish level ridiculous armor profile, easiest to citadel t10 BB. mediocre to bad aa and secondaries. The biggest caliber guns are actually working against you since 90% of your hits are going to be overpens no matter what you do.  Can be seen from the moon, heal is crap ( i wish they gave her back her old heal), etas HE shells for days. And i swear the fuse time is set to be 1+ seconds because im regurarly overpenning underwater hits.

The one thing that could help her would be a new type of hit category: the citadel overpen. I mean by Wgs own definition: "the citadel area is where a ships most crucial parts are placed". So when an 18 inch shell hits it and the fuse doesnt go off ( i mean i understand why overpen is in the game thats not the issue) it just does "minimal damage because the hit wasnt important"  Thats the overpens definition.

So.. now excuse me.. but i would not call a half meter wide hole in your f#&@@{}ing boiler and ammo rack and whatnot an "unimportant hit". Suddenly the citadel stops being a "crucial part" because the fuse didnt go off. What the actual f>#&? 
I say make overpens that hit the citadels their own type indicated by a blue citadel hit icon that does the shells 50% damage. Done. Now cruisers suddenly dont feel so brave dancing in front you showing tha largest possible surface.

P.S: give destroyers back the citadels. Its ridiculous that i need to land a dozen+ shells. There are more holes than ship left by the time the dd dies.

[HaachamaShipping]

19 hours ago, redraven said:

P.S: give destroyers back the citadels. Its ridiculous that i need to land a dozen+ shells. There are more holes than ship left by the time the dd dies.

I read your entire post, then came across this and it really would've been all that is necessary. Please don't blame the ship for your failings, thanks.

[redraven]

5 hours ago, Bunny_Lover_Kallen said:

I read your entire post, then came across this and it really would've been all that is necessary. Please don't blame the ship for your failings, thanks.

Tell me how am i wrong? Since AP does only overpen ever, maybe exept the khaba, and dds have hearly 20k hp. One yamato overpen does 1400 damage  Landing 12 means 16.800 damage. Thats not enough to kill a T10 DD. And before you start drooling over the keyboard "load HE" please do tell me when do i have time for that?  And even than HE wont ever do maximum damage because *drumroll* DDs do not have citadels, which where the shells do maximum damage.

Also im not a cross eyed idiot. I can land shots.. when the fcking game lets me that is. The amount of sacrifices required in the name of RNGesus is ridiculous. Yamato is far more inconsistent at any range compared to any other ship that is described as "accurate".

[rnat]

20 hours ago, redraven said:

Tell me how am i wrong? Since AP does only overpen ever, maybe exept the khaba, and dds have hearly 20k hp. One yamato overpen does 1400 damage  Landing 12 means 16.800 damage. Thats not enough to kill a T10 DD. And before you start drooling over the keyboard "load HE" please do tell me when do i have time for that?  And even than HE wont ever do maximum damage because *drumroll* DDs do not have citadels, which where the shells do maximum damage.

Don't expect to 1-shot DDs then ? No other ship can do 1-shot DDs with guns, except maybe the Venezia if it gets lucky or is very close.

And if that's not an option for you consider not getting into situations where you are dependent on 1-shotting destroyers in a battleship.

[edited for clarity]

[redraven]

15 hours ago, rnat said:

Don't expect to 1-shot DDs then ? No other ship can do it, except maybe the Venezia if it gets lucky or is very close.

And if that's not an option for you consider not getting into situations where you are dependent on 1-shotting destroyers in a battleship.

Well every other ship can be one-shot. Also torpedoes are a thing.
All im saying is that if for example a dd tries to rush a bb, and the BB knows its gonna happen, loads the HE. The dd needs to be punished. Im not talking about those "gothca" moments where  a dd outmanouvers a flank and cathces everyone by suprise. Im talking about the idea that  people who [edited]crap up need to be punished. It takes unreasonably long time to get rid of a dd. Cruisers have citadels, bbs have citadels. So why the [edited]dont dds have?

[rnat]

2 hours ago, redraven said:

Well every other ship can be one-shot. Also torpedoes are a thing.
All im saying is that if for example a dd tries to rush a bb, and the BB knows its gonna happen, loads the HE. The dd needs to be punished. Im not talking about those "gothca" moments where  a dd outmanouvers a flank and cathces everyone by suprise. Im talking about the idea that  people who [edited]crap up need to be punished. It takes unreasonably long time to get rid of a dd. Cruisers have citadels, bbs have citadels. So why the [edited]dont dds have?

A full Yamato HE-salvo does 21900 damage. That is nearly enough to nuke any T10 DD. Just the front turrets are enough to comfortably 2-shot any loli-bote.

If a destroyer manages to get close enough -while staying on full health to boot- to torpedo you before you can reload once that's just the "gotcha" moment you're talking about and either the DD played well or you as the BB messed up badly.

Also let me ask you, how likely is it that you can 1-shot a rushing Hindenburg ? Or Stalingrad for that matter ? Both ships that will comfortably nuke you if you let them get your flank at those ranges.

To me this sounds like BB-entitlement because likely trading a majority of your health even on a relatively successful rush clearly isn't punishment enough for the DD.

[HaachamaShipping]

5 hours ago, redraven said:

Well every other ship can be one-shot. Also torpedoes are a thing.
All im saying is that if for example a dd tries to rush a bb, and the BB knows its gonna happen, loads the HE. The dd needs to be punished. Im not talking about those "gothca" moments where  a dd outmanouvers a flank and cathces everyone by suprise. Im talking about the idea that  people who [edited]crap up need to be punished. It takes unreasonably long time to get rid of a dd. Cruisers have citadels, bbs have citadels. So why the [edited]dont dds have?

Alright, then tell me how a Moskva, Des Moines, Worcester, Stalingrad, Puerto Rico, Henri IV or Venezia oneshot your Yamato if you aren't already damaged? Maybe not every class oneshots every other class.

[anonym_FDOLXpxOfXXq]

On 3/28/2020 at 10:46 AM, redraven said:

Well every other ship can be one-shot. Also torpedoes are a thing.
All im saying is that if for example a dd tries to rush a bb, and the BB knows its gonna happen, loads the HE. The dd needs to be punished. Im not talking about those "gothca" moments where  a dd outmanouvers a flank and cathces everyone by suprise. Im talking about the idea that  people who [edited]crap up need to be punished. It takes unreasonably long time to get rid of a dd. Cruisers have citadels, bbs have citadels. So why the [edited]dont dds have?

I would advise you to play DDs a bit more than your current 7%.

Might help you to update your views on them.

[redraven]

20 hours ago, Bunny_Lover_Kallen said:

Alright, then tell me how a Moskva, Des Moines, Worcester, Stalingrad, Puerto Rico, Henri IV or Venezia oneshot your Yamato if you aren't already damaged? Maybe not every class oneshots every other class.

Okay thats a fair point.

[redraven]

23 hours ago, rnat said:

A full Yamato HE-salvo does 21900 damage. That is nearly enough to nuke any T10 DD. Just the front turrets are enough to comfortably 2-shot any loli-bote.

If a destroyer manages to get close enough -while staying on full health to boot- to torpedo you before you can reload once that's just the "gotcha" moment you're talking about and either the DD played well or you as the BB messed up badly.

Also let me ask you, how likely is it that you can 1-shot a rushing Hindenburg ? Or Stalingrad for that matter ? Both ships that will comfortably nuke you if you let them get your flank at those ranges.

To me this sounds like BB-entitlement because likely trading a majority of your health even on a relatively successful rush clearly isn't punishment enough for the DD.

A lot of things need to happen for that damage to happen. First all the shells need to land. Than all of them need to do Pen damage and not overpen. Than you need to hope the part wont get saturated by the first 2 hits resulting in the rest of the shells doing severly reduced damage. Also modules have not be in the way to absorb the shell. Doing damage with shells is a lot more complicated than doing damage with torps. In terms of game mechanic, not talking about landing them.

Of course a lot depends on the circumstances which why i gave a very specific scenario.

[rnat]

1 hour ago, redraven said:

Than all of them need to do Pen damage and not overpen. Than you need to hope the part wont get saturated by the first 2 hits resulting in the rest of the shells doing severly reduced damage.

Speaking of game mechanics: HE-shells will only do overpen damage if you hit a saturated section. Otherwise it's penetration damage or a shatter, the latter of which we can safely exclude in this scenario.

As to hitting, at close ranges a Yamato is frightfully accurate and if the DD is charging you the only module you are likely to hit is it's front turret.

If you want to go into more details i'd like to add in the damage radius of BB-caliber HE shells which is likely to knock out not only the DDs engine but also at least 1 of it's torpedo tubes on most hits,

with a direct hit to the weaponsystem all but certain to knock it out for good given the additional splash-damage from nearby hits or near-misses.

[redraven]

22 hours ago, rnat said:

Speaking of game mechanics: HE-shells will only do overpen damage if you hit a saturated section. Otherwise it's penetration damage or a shatter, the latter of which we can safely exclude in this scenario.

As to hitting, at close ranges a Yamato is frightfully accurate and if the DD is charging you the only module you are likely to hit is it's front turret.

If you want to go into more details i'd like to add in the damage radius of BB-caliber HE shells which is likely to knock out not only the DDs engine but also at least 1 of it's torpedo tubes on most hits,

with a direct hit to the weaponsystem all but certain to knock it out for good given the additional splash-damage from nearby hits or near-misses.

I have seen yamato shells trying to enter other games, my worst salvo of this kind was when 5/6 shells landed short when fired at a target between 4-5km. 
Also i never made the connection that the overpenmarker for HE hits is meaning saturated damage.  Not that the game is good at explaing anything to the players.
As for killing modules i think its extremly rare at this point. Even killing dd modules. People kept complaining that they dont like so WG made it extremly hard to happen.

Speaking of saturated damage. I have seen this crap way too often:  SO i shoot a full hp bb… dont know which one.. at the BEGINNING of the battle. 1 hit lands does penetarte… and does 2000-something damage. The f##&># can be the reason for doing saturated damage to a ship that has taken 0 damage? Just asking if you can answerme this because it has been bothering me for some time.

[rnat]

1 hour ago, redraven said:

I have seen yamato shells trying to enter other games, my worst salvo of this kind was when 5/6 shells landed short when fired at a target between 4-5km. 
Also i never made the connection that the overpenmarker for HE hits is meaning saturated damage.  Not that the game is good at explaing anything to the players.
As for killing modules i think its extremly rare at this point. Even killing dd modules. People kept complaining that they dont like so WG made it extremly hard to happen.

Freak-salvos happen. On the other hand I once permanently lost 2 turrets and both launchers to a single Republique HE salvo in the Grozovoi.

Permanently destroying the modules is just a bonus though. If you manage to incapacitate the torpedo tubes and the DD already used DCP that will keep you alive for at least half of your reload.

 

The overpen-dmg is only on fully saturated sections btw. If only the section HP (or rarer hull HP) is depleted that'll net you ~16% damage.

[redraven]

41 minutes ago, rnat said:

Freak-salvos happen. On the other hand I only permanently lost 2 turrets and both launchers to a single Republique HE salvo.

Permanently destroying the modules is just a bonus though. If you manage to incapacitate the torpedo tubes and the DD already used DCP that will keep you alive for at least half of your reload.

 

The overpen-dmg is only on fully saturated sections btw. If only the section HP (or rarer hull HP) is depleted that'll net you ~16% damage.

Freak-salvo. I like the name. Well maybe if the game indicated it better. I mean i have never seen the black tropedo icon. I have seen the gun one.. but never the torp one.

Also: i never actually found the asnwer to this: if a ship uses heal.. does it heal back the section hp.. or just the overall hp? Its not explained on the wiki page.

[rnat]

21 minutes ago, redraven said:

Freak-salvo. I like the name. Well maybe if the game indicated it better. I mean i have never seen the black tropedo icon. I have seen the gun one.. but never the torp one.

Also: i never actually found the asnwer to this: if a ship uses heal.. does it heal back the section hp.. or just the overall hp? Its not explained on the wiki page. 

Then you haven't shot at DDs enough  Though DDs usually die before enough shells land on their launchers.

If you want you can test it in the training room against some stationary bots. Shoot their launchers with BB-caliber HE and you'll see how few hits it can take.

 

Regarding your question: This is answered in some material WG provided (though they should put it on the website somewhere reasonably prominent imo)

You can check the entire series if you want, though the overpen damage from hits to saturated sections is newer than the video series.

[redraven]

49 minutes ago, rnat said:

Then you haven't shot at DDs enough  Though DDs usually die before enough shells land on their launchers.

If you want you can test it in the training room against some stationary bots. Shoot their launchers with BB-caliber HE and you'll see how few hits it can take.

 

Regarding your question: This is answered in some material WG provided (though they should put it on the website somewhere reasonably prominent imo)

You can check the entire series if you want, though the overpen damage from hits to saturated sections is newer than the video series.

Well color me suprised. This is new to me. They never bothered with this kind of stuff for Wot so i never even bothered looking at their official channels. Butlooking at its release date.. is it still.. you know.. valid? I might also need to check out a few things.. missing nealy a Year and a half is a lot...

[Spartan_Renegade]

Ive had more battles on Yamato than any other ship. IMO Yamato is the most balanced BB, she is in a good place now with no noticeable flaws. Her floating citadel shouldn't be much of a problem if you can exploit her armor depending on the situation/ship you're facing against. I earned the legendary upgade a week ago and the dispersion has improved tenfold.   She is good at what she does. That is all. 

[rnat]

1 hour ago, redraven said:

Well color me suprised. This is new to me. They never bothered with this kind of stuff for Wot so i never even bothered looking at their official channels. Butlooking at its release date.. is it still.. you know.. valid? I might also need to check out a few things.. missing nealy a Year and a half is a lot...

Iirc excluding the changes against fully saturated sections it should all still be up to date.

[Yaskaraxx]

On 3/30/2020 at 3:15 PM, TheWolfQueen said:

Ive had more battles on Yamato than any other ship. IMO Yamato is the most balanced BB, she is in a good place now with no noticeable flaws. Her floating citadel shouldn't be much of a problem if you can exploit her armor depending on the situation/ship you're facing against. I earned the legendary upgade a week ago and the dispersion has improved tenfold.   She is good at what she does. That is all. 

I can tell you this re the legendary Yamato: actually the Yamato is the only ship I am realy afraid of when playing my Massachusetts VIII (which i opine somewhat more stronger than its higher tier IX Georgia which i also play). The forceful Yamato X in battle---> get some rocks/mountains in between for cover, that Yamato is really lethal when "yr bit dancing around in front of its loaded gunzzzz (better not do so, hahaha)". Besides that: the great Yamato is beautiful ship to watch(!), even you are in enemy team you watch it (preferably from afar, lol), very nice ship the watch (and historically the most forceful battleship ever build on planet Earth (= fact). So my fav battleship is Massachusetts, powerful + great fun (100% secondary build, a real tough one for any enemy ship)...but...when I meet The Mighty Yamato in enemy team...then I have to play it...say...wisely!!!...very wisely, hahaha

[Yaskaraxx]

On 3/30/2020 at 3:15 PM, TheWolfQueen said:

Ive had more battles on Yamato than any other ship. IMO Yamato is the most balanced BB, she is in a good place now with no noticeable flaws. Her floating citadel shouldn't be much of a problem if you can exploit her armor depending on the situation/ship you're facing against. I earned the legendary upgade a week ago and the dispersion has improved tenfold.   She is good at what she does. That is all. 

btw, forgot to mention: I much like yr avatar, the also legendary Dasha, such a great figurehead of this very great game(!) Bye, Yaskara XX

[gerula81]

On 3/26/2020 at 5:19 PM, redraven said:

Yamato is special in the sense as a special needs kid.

The shells are either going pixel perfect where you aim or they are trying to hit ships in different battles. And it happens at all ranges. I once managed to overpen an Alabama when hitting its 340mm belt armor. At 3 k range. 
Yamato is a bunch of nonsense. Absolutely trollish level ridiculous armor profile, easiest to citadel t10 BB. mediocre to bad aa and secondaries. The biggest caliber guns are actually working against you since 90% of your hits are going to be overpens no matter what you do.  Can be seen from the moon, heal is crap ( i wish they gave her back her old heal), etas HE shells for days. And i swear the fuse time is set to be 1+ seconds because im regurarly overpenning underwater hits.

The one thing that could help her would be a new type of hit category: the citadel overpen. I mean by Wgs own definition: "the citadel area is where a ships most crucial parts are placed". So when an 18 inch shell hits it and the fuse doesnt go off ( i mean i understand why overpen is in the game thats not the issue) it just does "minimal damage because the hit wasnt important"  Thats the overpens definition.

So.. now excuse me.. but i would not call a half meter wide hole in your f#&@@{}ing boiler and ammo rack and whatnot an "unimportant hit". Suddenly the citadel stops being a "crucial part" because the fuse didnt go off. What the actual f>#&? 
I say make overpens that hit the citadels their own type indicated by a blue citadel hit icon that does the shells 50% damage. Done. Now cruisers suddenly dont feel so brave dancing in front you showing tha largest possible surface.

P.S: give destroyers back the citadels. Its ridiculous that i need to land a dozen+ shells. There are more holes than ship left by the time the dd dies.

I agree with this! overpen citadels should deal a lot more damage indeed! and yes dd's should also have a citadel which should only receive full damage from small caliber guns, larger guns should over pen for less damage. it's not really nice to be in a tiny boat, pop up near a bb and capable to torp blast it from full health while at the same time IF he has the main guns aimed to you he will only deal 5k worth of damage from a full broadside! wtf?

This is what secondaries are for right? they should protect you against small fast and closer range targets, and should get more accurate and deadly as range decreases. You can have 10 127mm secondary guns aimed at a dd at close range and they still do so little damage it's laughable. Not saying they should work like 10 127mm Gearing guns but still... 

If a such close encounter occurs I think it would be fair for both ships to have about the same chances, I kinda think that in real life a dd 5 kms close to a bb would be anihilated in no time only by the secondary guns. In game that would be overkill but i don't know... there are times that a dd makes a mistake, he is closed to you, left the smoke or smth, you SHOULD be able to punish it harder in the mother of all ships that ever existed and still..

 

[HaachamaShipping]

3 hours ago, gerula81 said:

I agree with this! overpen citadels should deal a lot more damage indeed! and yes dd's should also have a citadel which should only receive full damage from small caliber guns, larger guns should over pen for less damage. it's not really nice to be in a tiny boat, pop up near a bb and capable to torp blast it from full health while at the same time IF he has the main guns aimed to you he will only deal 5k worth of damage from a full broadside! wtf?

This is what secondaries are for right? they should protect you against small fast and closer range targets, and should get more accurate and deadly as range decreases. You can have 10 127mm secondary guns aimed at a dd at close range and they still do so little damage it's laughable. Not saying they should work like 10 127mm Gearing guns but still... 

If a such close encounter occurs I think it would be fair for both ships to have about the same chances, I kinda think that in real life a dd 5 kms close to a bb would be anihilated in no time only by the secondary guns. In game that would be overkill but i don't know... there are times that a dd makes a mistake, he is closed to you, left the smoke or smth, you SHOULD be able to punish it harder in the mother of all ships that ever existed and still..

 

Given secondaries fire HE, arguing citadels are necessary is silly. Secondaries wouldn't reach a citadel anyway.

 

The Yamato has 2 Shimas worth of guns on its side. If you actually invest the points into secondary skills to make them useful, you typically delete DDs that come close. Obviously, you can still eat all their torps though. But secondaries are not supposed to just be an automatic NO U armament against a class that supposedly counters BBs. At 5 km though, if you don't get torped to crap and the DD is at your side, so secs can shoot it, they will die in no time.

 

Lastly, BB AP is still very effective:

• 5k in overpens even on something as healthy as a Paolo Emilio would equate to a fifth of the hp pool. On a smaller ship like Harekaze it's a third. Compare that to what a broadside shot does on GK or on a Montana typically.
• Most DDs have no repair and will lose these hp permanently.
• Most DDs have no armour and get overmatched and overpenned from any angle. Given it's an overpen, it also ignores mechanics like French special saturation, because overpens directly go against the overall hp pool and not just the section hp.
• The one DD that has a heal and armour to not get overmatched and overpenned 100% of the time also eats full pens, potentially getting devstruck by AP shells from BBs.

3 hours ago, gerula81 said:

you SHOULD be able to punish it harder in the mother of all ships that ever existed and still..

You do realise this is a game, classes are supposed to be balanced? I would say go play WT if you just want to be a bigger ship crapping on smaller ships though.