Jump to content
Server Restart - 30 October, 05:00 UTC Read more... ×
coyob

Yamato is SPECIAL

53 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Players
10 posts

For nearly 3 weeks, I've been grinding the Yamato's "legendary" mission. I'm almost near the end - got a little bit of base XP grind left.
My Yamato is built for reload speed, accuracy and extreme survivability. Don't really have problems with CVs (no captain perks spent on that).
Not really a newb, I don't snipe, I roll with the pack. I don't rush where not needed and overall, I think I might have perfected how to play the Yamato (for myself) positionally.

The problem is with the guns. And not only. To myself, this sounds almost like a placebo, however - I've tried countless aiming techniques, and it seems like the technique is not the problem.
Here are some of the most memorable examples from those 3 weeks:

  • Week one - side of the map, 1v1 vs Montana. Caught him a little bit by surprise, because I double-backed him behind the island. 
    If you can believe it, he tried to do this kind of manoeuvre in front of me, 5-6 km. away from me:
    maxresdefault.jpg
    Sorry for the wrong ship in the picture. The idea stays the same.
    The thing that he did...was such a tight turn, that his ship, the Montana..."lifted it's skirt up". His red underbelly was exposed, revealing his citadel. 5-6 km. away from me !
    I've been having problems citadelling Montanas, so I thought - HERE WE GO ! I waited for him to be completely broadside to me, still lifting up his "skirt", and I fired straight at the citadel.
    I clearly, visually saw 3 shells go into the citadel, into the part that is usually under water. Other shells, for some bizzare reason, scattered all around, even though the range was extremely close.
    NO CITADEL hits. 8840 or something damage. I was stumped. I just let go of keyboard and mouse, and sat there looking at the screen.
  • Another incident, same week, with another Montana. The guy sailed THE WHOLE game BROADSIDE to everyone. Nobody managed to citadel him, and I was shooting at him whole game long, on-and-off, more - on.
    Towards the end of the game, he tried to rush me, I turned at him, and sailed straight ahead at him. He turned to fire all the guns at me, until he was fully broadside, very clearly 90 degree's  at me.
    What happened was that he hit an island 5 seconds later, making him completely stationary. I was waiting for that, my guns were reloaded. I aimed very carefully at his citadel, and the shots hit him before he had any time to start moving backwards.
    9 km away. Nothing. No citadels, even though I saw shots go very clearly into the boiler room "territory", under smoke stacks, at the waterline and very slightly below. This should've been 2-3 citadels. 
  • So I kept playing through those weeks, even though I felt something was wrong. Every single ship you shoot, dispersion is huge, every single time. Either 10 - 15 - 19 - 22.5 km. away - always the same scatter.
    If you manage to hit something - it's almost always 1-2 shells.
    I aim slightly higher - overpenetrations on superstructure.
    I aim the shells to go to the deck at range, plunging fire - (and I see them hit the deck) - nothing. 4800 damage.
    I aim at the waterline - "torpedo belt hits", no damage, or some crap 1480 damage, which is not a citadel.
  • Another thing I've noticed - shooting enemy Yamatos, Musashis. If they're angled at me, I still shoot the almost anywhere - I get 4800 + 11000 salvos, but almost always 8000 damage and above.
    If they're broadside on - it's almost always like it used to be in the olden days - you hit them at citadel territory - you get a citadel ribbon for it. Yamatos and Musashies are the only ships that I can sitadel with my Yamato.
    I've even had a game, where I citadelled a Yamato that was running away straight ahead, and all I could see is his [edited]. Sounds right, yes ? 16 km., plunging fire, huge Yamato shell hits the deck and goes through.
    Why then, only on Yamatos citadel hits are working the way they should be working, whilst on others, and especially Montana - it's like turtleback armor 24/7.
  • Today was the last drop. I didn't really want to make this topic, thinking it's me. But...Met a Worcester, very close range.
    He immediately turned away from me (he was like 5 km away), and started speeding away. I was broadside at him. I shot him in the [edited] - lots of shells hit - 1480 or something damage. Could not believe it.
    He then started weaving, in order to get more guns firing at me. I was something like 80% of HP. His HP was something like 60%.
    I shot him again. 8000 damage, he's still close, something like 6-7 km. away from me. Shells hitting everything - torpedobelt, superstructure - all of the shells connecting.
    Again, when I'm reloading, he's weaving, zigzagging. And he does a mistake. He overturns, giving me almost a perfect broadside. I was waiting for that. I shoot - I see 5 (yes, this time I was counting) shells hit around the  superstructure and torpedo belt, and 1 shell go straight into his citadel. 4800 damge [edited]. No citadel.
    And you see, while all this is happening, he's pummeling me. From 80% health, I'm down to less than 8000 health, and I've got 1 fire. He's probably using Adrenaline Rush, he's shooting quite fast. He killed me, and I left him on something like 7000 hp.
     

 

I have to explain - I'm using Aslain's and Hakabase's mod pack, to remove sutt and burning marks from ships. So I can see very clearly where shells that last hit the ship are hitting. Also - additional 25x zoom, so that I can aim directly at the citadel, waterline, what have you, when ships at extreme distances are stationary or go into smoke (to delete minotaurs and neptunes, or sleepy ships that hit islands).
And yes - I see marks on citadels. Sometimes even slightly below. But they do not register as citadels. They register as 4800 or 8000 damage.


Trust me, I've played this ship to death, trying to get that "legendary" achievement and module. And I do know how to aim. When I play Indianaplis or other "heavy" shelled cruisers with good dispersion - citadells all day long. With Yamato - after perfect shot after shot after shot - all I manage is 1-2 citadels in 5-10 games. 

Am I alone on this ?

 

 

  • Cool 2
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[IDDQD]
Alpha Tester
3,406 posts
9,742 battles

sorry but this is all relatively basic stuff

armour layout, fuse mechanism knowledge etc

any chance to see your stats to get more out of this ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
10 posts

Thank you for the reply.

What do you mean by "armour layout, fuse mechanism knowledge etc". Isn't a citadel hit with biggest shell in the game supposed to be a citadel hit ?

Stats I hide on purpose, so we don't start talking about my ears, nose, and we stay on topic, which is Yamato. I can send you a screenshot, if you wish, which stats do you need ?

Went to rank 1 in ranked battles in 22 games, if that helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[IDDQD]
Alpha Tester
3,669 posts
23,577 battles
Před 41 minutami coyob řekl/a:

Thank you for the reply.

What do you mean by "armour layout, fuse mechanism knowledge etc". Isn't a citadel hit with biggest shell in the game supposed to be a citadel hit ?

Stats I hide on purpose, so we don't start talking about my ears, nose, and we stay on topic, which is Yamato. I can send you a screenshot, if you wish, which stats do you need ?

Went to rank 1 in ranked battles in 22 games, if that helps.

All of them. WR, avg dmg etc. There is a very bad experience with guys with hidden stats. We need to know what kind of player you are. After this we can talk more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[IDDQD]
Alpha Tester
3,406 posts
9,742 battles
1 hour ago, coyob said:

 Isn't a citadel hit with biggest shell in the game supposed to be a citadel hit ?

Stats I hide on purpose, so we don't start talking about my ears, nose, and we stay on topic, which is Yamato. I can send you a screenshot, if you wish, which stats do you need ?

Went to rank 1 in ranked battles in 22 games, if that helps.

 

not always

stats because we dont know if we should start with 1+1 explanation or if we can skip to differential algebra, nothing else

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
1,649 posts
8,138 battles

First things first. Yamato and Musashi are indeed what BBs should be imo and the last of them left to be "easy" to citadell. Montana got a lowered citadell long time ago, Km BBs have turtleback and every new BB introduced had almost foolproof citadells (Conq says hi). This is indeed a problem and I am all for raising the other BBs citadells.

 

However.

 

What you are describing is another issue. Yamato is VERY accurate for a BB (you will like it with LM) and if you know where to aim it's not actualy that hard to citadell BBs. The one trumpcard Yamato has is her caliber. She can Overmatch almost all Bows and hit the citadell behind it. Cruisers are also mostly no problem to overmatch. If you shoot cruisers that are too flat broadside you most likely get overpens and shatters on thick armored BBs. What you SHOULD do is to use the overmatch mechanic and shoot BB bows and angled (not to much though or it will autobounce) cruisers. You will see much better results then.

If you still get hits that you think should have been citadells but weren't, check the armourlayout of the target ship and look if you actualy hit the juicy bit or if there is a thick "no sir" armor or torpedobelt. Even the mighty yamato can't pen everything.

Also look at your ribbons. They tell you what happened to your shells. if you get shatters it's naturally that you won't get much damage. It means you hit too thick armour that you shells won't pen no matter if the citadell lies behind it. If you bounce the angle may still be too steep etc.

 

You get more consistent citadells in cruisers because those usualy don't have the pen to overpen broadside cruisers or citadells.

 

This is only some tips and guesswork. It would help if you could provide some replays. WG made it so that your last 30 games are saved with the standart settings.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
10 posts
15 hours ago, Miessa3 said:

First things first. Yamato and Musashi are indeed what BBs should be imo

I absolutely agree. These ships seem quite balanced as in what their armor is like.

 

15 hours ago, Miessa3 said:

Montana got a lowered citadell long time ago, Km BBs have turtleback and every new BB introduced had almost foolproof citadells (Conq says hi). This is indeed a problem and I am all for raising the other BBs citadells.

I do know about these. However, Montana got it's citadel lowered so low, it's impossible to shoot, don't you find that in your games ?
What I've been finding, is Montanas sailing broadside every game, shooting their 12 gun broadside at everything. Nobody can citadel them now, so it's almost the same as turtleback.
And that is annoying, because I work the whole game under sweat, calculating my Yamatos position, so I dont get shot by a crossfire, and the best one can manage in most situations is 6 guns firing (which are not that accurate !).

 

15 hours ago, Miessa3 said:

What you are describing is another issue. Yamato is VERY accurate for a BB

I have to disagree, here, Miessa. I will very shortly describe 1 game I had, where I was stubborn (I had another one almost exactly the same).

  • I spawned on the side of the map (C flag);
  • Sailed slowly, until CV spotted everything;
  • There were only 2 ships on my side - Musashi + Moskva;
  • Moskva had terrible concealment, and it was a terrible player;
  • Both Moskva and Musashi kept moving forward 2-3 km. from where they spawned, them they moved backwards 2-3 km. It was funny to watch. Always bow on to me;
  • I had a friendly Yamato near me, and we both started shooting the Moskva;
  • I kept track of his shells landing, and mine - I also angled so people shooting from mid of the map could only get bounces on me;
  • And me and friendly Yamato always kept moving towards the Moskva, who was basicly in the same 2-3 km. region the whole game;
  • What happened ? From every single 9 shot salvo, only 1 hit. If there were 2 hits - it was an overpenetration or even a bounce;
  • It was a fun experiment in a sence, as I kept laughing the whole game, but WE DID NOT MANAGE TO KILL a stationary Moskva. Friendly Yamato was laughing as well :D
  • It took us the whole game to whittle the Moskva to something like 11k hp, then a friendly DD sailed past him and torped him almost point blank.

What in the world has happened to this game ? 2-3 years ago, cheeky cruisers, sitting bow on like that would get punished by 12'000 - 18'000 salvos from Yamatos. Now all you get is overpenetrations, bounces, torpedo bulge hits etc.

It's ridiculous. We were doing 2000-3000 hits on that Moskva max., and he was sitting there like a cheeky git, half of the time he wasn't even shooting at us, his guns were shooting somebody in the middle of the map. 

And trust me - I tried shooting every single part of his ship, as it was stationary most of the times. I was hitting his guns (which did not incapacitate them), I saw shells go into superstructure and then  directly into his bow, multiple times. NOTHING.

 

15 hours ago, Miessa3 said:

(you will like it with LM) and if you know where to aim it's not actualy that hard to citadell BBs.

I do know where to aim, I'm sorry if I come of as a noob. 
I've said this before - every time a Yamato gives me a broadside - I get a citadel hit and a ribon, 90% of a time.
Montanas - they keep sailing the whole game broadside, I get to fire 6-9 salvos at them per game, and the results are simple - zero citadels.
There is something very very wrong here.

 

15 hours ago, Miessa3 said:

If you still get hits that you think should have been citadells but weren't, check the armourlayout of the target ship and look if you actualy hit the juicy bit or if there is a thick "no sir" armor or torpedobelt. Even the mighty yamato can't pen everything.

I do understand that the mighty Yamato cannot pen everything. The question that arises, is - why everything can pen the mighty Yamato ?
I agree that angled ships should be hard to gain anything on, even by the Yamato, that's an understandable mechanic. But why is one of the biggest and most armored ships in the game so easy to pen to everyone (not to mention one of the most slugish ships), while Montanas and Conquerors (not even mentioning G.Kurfurst, as it eats huge damage anyway, if it tries to broadside, without citadel damage needed) get to sail around with impunity.


Anyway, I thank you for your reply, Miessa, you tried your best to explain things that I mostly knew.
That is the strange thing - theory says it should be one way, but it so happens that it's the other way in nature.
I hope the Legendary Module will solve this issue of bad accuracy. It won't solve Montanas indestructable citadel though.
Nowadays every game ends in Yamatos being the first ships to die, and Montanas being the last ships to die. Ridiculous.


I just wanted to ask around if people have been getting same sort of results, playing the Yamato.
Have you played it recently ? Without the Legendary Module ? Haven't you found it frustrating ?
 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[OMPG]
Beta Tester
348 posts
6,314 battles

Moskva is one of the tankiest cruisers in the game when angled or even bow-on. However catching one full-broadside you can do massive citadel damage to it easily. For not hitting it´s just RNG as Yamato has one of the most accurate guns in the game even without legendary module. And for the tankiness bow-on Yamato can be overmatched only by other Yamato or Musashi.

 

For the record I don´t own the Yamato but love my Musashi that has much less accurate guns. Still I manage enough damage with it in my mind, partly due to 460mm overmatch mechanics giving me full pens even against angled targets. With very HE-resistant thick deck armor, 32mm bow and stern plating and very good torpedo protection it is very very tanky in the current game meta. Montana will melt to IFHE-spam and you can citadel it too with 460mm or similar but you have to do it from 15km range so that the shells drops on to the citadel deck. If Montana (or an Iowa for that matter) comes to brawl with you within 10km you are in trouble because they can outmaneuver and thus citadel you and you have hard time citadeling them back that is true but those kind of situation is not where Yamasushi should be fighting to begin with.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BGNAV]
Players
203 posts
8,927 battles

To be honest I do not find it that hard to citadel a broadside Montana in any T10BB, except at extreme ranges. When the game released, Yamato would easily score citadels on broadside Monties with each shell that hits. After the latter's citadel got lowered, it is more R&G dependent and usually you would hit between 0 and 2 cits. Most often 1 + some pen damage.

 

What I find to be very trollish for me in the Yamato are the front turrets. Every time I must absolutely hit something (life-and-death situations), the front guns shoot a salvo of fireworks that go everywhere but where I aimed them at. Yes, they still score hits but it's usually just grazing the enemy and either bouncing or overpenning. The rear turret on the other hand fires 9 out of 10 salvos with the shells flying as one. This is just my experience of course.

 

As for the scenario you described in the beginning, if the Monty was at the same angle as on the photo, I would expect shatters at the belt. Montana's belt armor is quite thick and when angled like that the effective thickness becomes ridiculous. I would either wait for him to turn more, or shoot his stern (Yamato will overmatch it and will score citadels or at least a lot of pen damage there).

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
1,649 posts
8,138 battles
45 minutes ago, coyob said:

I do know about these. However, Montana got it's citadel lowered so low, it's impossible to shoot, don't you find that in your games ?

Certainly not impossible just harder to hit.

Quote

What I've been finding, is Montanas sailing broadside every game, shooting their 12 gun broadside at everything. Nobody can citadel them now, so it's almost the same as turtleback.
And that is annoying, because I work the whole game under sweat, calculating my Yamatos position, so I dont get shot by a crossfire, and the best one can manage in most situations is 6 guns firing (which are not that accurate !).

It is the Range. If you shoot from too far away (over 12- 15 km) it is rather hard to get to the citadell of a Montana (but easier for KM BBs because turtleback) if you move closer you should get more consistent citadells. Renember BBs are made inacurate for a reason so you can't delete that ship on the other side of the map consistently with a good spread. Sometimes dispersion can be trolling though.

 

Quote

I have to disagree, here, Miessa. I will very shortly describe 1 game I had, where I was stubborn (I had another one almost exactly the same).

  • I spawned on the side of the map (C flag);
  • Sailed slowly, until CV spotted everything;
  • There were only 2 ships on my side - Musashi + Moskva;
  • Moskva had terrible concealment, and it was a terrible player;
  • Both Moskva and Musashi kept moving forward 2-3 km. from where they spawned, them they moved backwards 2-3 km. It was funny to watch. Always bow on to me;
  • I had a friendly Yamato near me, and we both started shooting the Moskva;
  • I kept track of his shells landing, and mine - I also angled so people shooting from mid of the map could only get bounces on me;
  • And me and friendly Yamato always kept moving towards the Moskva, who was basicly in the same 2-3 km. region the whole game;
  • What happened ? From every single 9 shot salvo, only 1 hit. If there were 2 hits - it was an overpenetration or even a bounce;
  • It was a fun experiment in a sence, as I kept laughing the whole game, but WE DID NOT MANAGE TO KILL a stationary Moskva. Friendly Yamato was laughing as well :D
  • It took us the whole game to whittle the Moskva to something like 11k hp, then a friendly DD sailed past him and torped him almost point blank.

What in the world has happened to this game ? 2-3 years ago, cheeky cruisers, sitting bow on like that would get punished by 12'000 - 18'000 salvos from Yamatos. Now all you get is overpenetrations, bounces, torpedo bulge hits etc.

It's ridiculous. We were doing 2000-3000 hits on that Moskva max., and he was sitting there like a cheeky git, half of the time he wasn't even shooting at us, his guns were shooting somebody in the middle of the map. 

And trust me - I tried shooting every single part of his ship, as it was stationary most of the times. I was hitting his guns (which did not incapacitate them), I saw shells go into superstructure and then  directly into his bow, multiple times. NOTHING.

Yes Moskva is one of the few cruisers that can pull this off since it got a buffed 50 mm nose. The correct move here would be to charge or split up so they can't angle perfectly on you both. Especially the Musashi is vulnerable from shot of Yamato in the nose if not perfectly nose on.

The right place to shoot a perfectly bow on Moskva in a Yamato is a very tiny area between bow and front guns. The enemy player in the Moskva probably knew this and that is why he stayed that way while shooting you.

That's what I meant with looking at armorlayouts of targets that showed unexpected behaviour.

 

Quote

I do know where to aim, I'm sorry if I come of as a noob. 
I've said this before - every time a Yamato gives me a broadside - I get a citadel hit and a ribon, 90% of a time.
Montanas - they keep sailing the whole game broadside, I get to fire 6-9 salvos at them per game, and the results are simple - zero citadels.
There is something very very wrong here.

Not knowing every armour layout doesn't mean you are a noob. Actualy if you do know a few of them you should already be in the top 20% of the top players. Very few actualy bother to learn those things but it makes you better at playing the game. That is what I meant.

Again Montana is just harder to hit and I agree that every BB should be as easy to citadell as Yamato like i said.

And I am not alone. Do you renember when torpedobulges were changed and for a very short time (until WG rushed to fix it :Smile_smile:) BBs were ridiculously easy to citadell even by lower tier cruisers or DDs? The average and better skilled part of the community rejoiced and asked if we could keep it after it got fixed.

 

Quote

I do understand that the mighty Yamato cannot pen everything. The question that arises, is - why everything can pen the mighty Yamato ?
I agree that angled ships should be hard to gain anything on, even by the Yamato, that's an understandable mechanic. But why is one of the biggest and most armored ships in the game so easy to pen to everyone (not to mention one of the most slugish ships), while Montanas and Conquerors (not even mentioning G.Kurfurst, as it eats huge damage anyway, if it tries to broadside, without citadel damage needed) get to sail around with impunity.

 

Yamatos kind of playstile is that of the menacing areadenial fortress. If you find a good position where you can punish most of the players if they try to push caps while mostly angled to the enemy team Yamato does it's best.

 

Quote

Anyway, I thank you for your reply, Miessa, you tried your best to explain things that I mostly knew.
That is the strange thing - theory says it should be one way, but it so happens that it's the other way in nature.
I hope the Legendary Module will solve this issue of bad accuracy. It won't solve Montanas indestructable citadel though.
Nowadays every game ends in Yamatos being the first ships to die, and Montanas being the last ships to die. Ridiculous.

Well I always try to keep my comments mostly helpful if there is a clear attempt to learn from the OP.

There are enough trolls on this Forum already.

The LM will certainly up the accuracy noticably.

And you will maybe find it's not that impossible to citadell Montys. Just harder than Yamato.

 

Also citadells aren't everything. sure they do the most damage, but sometimes it is just better to walk away with 3-6 normal pens than trying to hit that hard to hit citadell and doing way less damage as result. The way the Km BBs are balanced is a good example of this.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
10 posts
1 hour ago, almitov said:

What I find to be very trollish for me in the Yamato are the front turrets.

That I have noticed, too often that happens. Almost exactly as you described. Cruisers just give full broadside and laugh in my face. Working as intended ?
 

1 hour ago, almitov said:

As for the scenario you described in the beginning, if the Monty was at the same angle as on the photo, I would expect shatters at the belt.

The photo was the beginning of the turn. I wanted to illustrate how a ship leans and exposes it's underside.
When I shot the Montana, it was full broadside at me ( I waited for it), and it was almost at max lean-back. That is why it left me speechless.


Good insights none-the-less. I've been calculating and looking at Montana's armor for quite some time today. 
I think they've made it too tanky. It has the most accurate guns of t10 BBs all round, most of them, it has great AA (used to be the best - still is ?) for a BB. 
I find this kind of "balance" ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, TohtoriP said:

Moskva is one of the tankiest cruisers in the game when angled or even bow-on. However catching one full-broadside you can do massive citadel damage to it easily. For not hitting it´s just RNG as Yamato has one of the most accurate guns in the game even without legendary module. And for the tankiness bow-on Yamato can be overmatched only by other Yamato or Musashi.

It is. However, tankiest against biggest shells in the game ?
Also, when you say - one of the most accurate guns in the game, what are we comparing it to ? If we're comparing it to G.Kurfurst, then yes. Otherwise, shooting at distances 15 km. +++ every single shell scatters where-ever, with 1 hitting (I find that to be the case 90% of the time), or 2-3 shells hit, of which you get 2 overpens. 
 

Very rarely, you get those salvos of 11'000 dmg, or more, but they always happen sub-15km. If it's above that range, and you actually hit that big salvo, it's because the shells flew nowhere near where you aimed them, which is often funny, as ships start turning violently from a place where you tried to predict them to be, and they actually should evade it, but since the dispersion goes in spite elsewhere, from where you aimed, they actually get hit.

 

2 hours ago, TohtoriP said:

If Montana (or an Iowa for that matter) comes to brawl with you within 10km you are in trouble because they can outmaneuver and thus citadel you and you have hard time citadeling them back that is true but those kind of situation is not where Yamasushi should be fighting to begin with.

I kind of agree. That is the current META.
Montana used to be shoot-hide sniper, with very accurate guns and bad armor. However, people used to have to use their brain, to always evade Yamatos whilst shooting their guns broadside, they used to have to do more.
Now, it's easy mode. You can give full broadside both 15km. +++ and close range. At long range they wont citadel you because of scattering, at close range - because the new impenetrable armor says so.

And what is Yamato supposed to do. You say - it should not get close range, right ? 

  • If you're sniping at 15-22km. targets, it's really hard to hit. If you hit anything - it's one or two shells. At these ranges I see numbers 1480, 4800 from single shell hits. And it's usually one shell hitting. If there's more shells hitting, it's usually to some non-important part of enemy ship, that is registered as over-pens or bounces. So without the Legendary Module, it seems like Yamato is quite useless at longer ranges.
    And what do cruisers do ? Spam HE. Their HE gets 1400, 3300 damage every salvo (almost always, if it's a good marksman behind the aiming reticle), plus, they set fires. Also - they reload every 7-9 seconds, to get that, lets say - 3300 damage. I reload every 26.5 seconds, to do 1400 or 4800 damage ? With a possibility of doing massive citadel damage, which almost never ever happens ? 
  • If you're sub 15km. away from the targets you can actually see - which are cruisers and battleships. That means there is a destroyer in-between you. So, you're sitting there, not knowing what to do, reloading every half-a-minute, getting set on fire, trying to dodge shells by angling, trying to dodge torpedoes by trying to outsmart the enemy DD with what might your intentions be, and when you get your moment of glory...a broadside cruiser...it fails, one shell hits it in the citadel area, you get 1400 dmg. WTF ? You see the shells go, and there's no result. So is Yamato supposed to be a damage sponge without any reward ?
    Because so far, that is what I'm seeing. No redeeming features.

    G. Kurfurst has turtleback + great secondaries. And 12 guns that sometimes work. I've been playing both, Yammi and Kurfurst, and I can say - the shell scatter is almost the same to me. Boggles my mind.
    Montana is super accurate and does not die anymore, after the armor changes. Great AA, 12 guns, citadels all day long anything it fires at, provided its a broadside.
    The french Republique is not only fast and hard to hit, it has some kind of turtleback as well, also - great secondaries. Cool ?
    The Conqueror is impossible to citadel, and sets fire on anything it looks at. Not to mention it can print a new ship with that RN heal.

    What does Yamato have ? Yamato is supposed to be about good guns. I don't find that to be the case. It's easy to citadel, it's prone to air attack, so you cannot really spec into AA, because you'll be losing more than gaining commander perk-wise. Same thing with secondaries, cannot spec into them, because you'll be losing elsewhere, where it matters. Yamatos now are the easiest ships to citadel. What is a man to do with this ship then ?

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Miessa3 said:

Certainly not impossible just harder to hit.

You see, that is the problem. The consistency.
I've played more than 160 games in the Yamato in last 2-3 weeks, and I can count on 7 fingers how many times I citadeled a Montana.
Mind you, I've been shooting at them religiously. And oh boy have they been giving me broadsides. It's almost like tier2 players play them. They broadside whole day long, and you cannot do anything about it.
And the citadels that I actually hit, the golden 7 ones, were the most stupid thing imagineable, at most stupid angles, where theoretically it shouldn't have been a citadel.

 

2 hours ago, Miessa3 said:

It is the Range. If you shoot from too far away (over 12- 15 km) it is rather hard to get to the citadell of a Montana (but easier for KM BBs because turtleback) if you move closer you should get more consistent citadells. Renember BBs are made inacurate for a reason so you can't delete that ship on the other side of the map consistently with a good spread. Sometimes dispersion can be trolling though.

You see how our experiences differ - the other guy was saying - shoot Montana with plunging fire, hit the deck and it will go into the citadel.
You're advising to go closer - sub 12km. lets say, so it's a "sure" hit on citadel.
And what I've been finding out - nothing works. With the biggest shells in the game, I know it should, you know it should, but it does not.
I wholeheartedly invite anyone to try and play 3-4 games in their Yamatos without the Legendary Module, and tell me the ship is fun to play.

 

2 hours ago, Miessa3 said:

Yes Moskva is one of the few cruisers that can pull this off since it got a buffed 50 mm nose. The correct move here would be to charge or split up so they can't angle perfectly on you both. Especially the Musashi is vulnerable from shot of Yamato in the nose if not perfectly nose on.

The right place to shoot a perfectly bow on Moskva in a Yamato is a very tiny area between bow and front guns. The enemy player in the Moskva probably knew this and that is why he stayed that way while shooting you.

That's what I meant with looking at armorlayouts of targets that showed unexpected behaviour.

Hmm, that is interesting. I knew that Moskva was a "battleship" more than a cruiser, and I've heard about it's bow, and I expected it to be tanky bow-on, but not against the biggest shells in the game.
People keep saying "Yamato" can overmatch everything, yet my Yamato shells were hitting his, guns, deck, bow, everywhere, without any result. I probably did less damage to it, than I would've done to a t10 battleship, bow on.
 

 

2 hours ago, Miessa3 said:

And I am not alone. Do you renember when torpedobulges were changed and for a very short time (until WG rushed to fix it :Smile_smile:) BBs were ridiculously easy to citadell even by lower tier cruisers or DDs? The average and better skilled part of the community rejoiced and asked if we could keep it after it got fixed.

I play on-and-off, every 3-6 months I do pause. Looks like I missed a fun one :<

 

2 hours ago, Miessa3 said:

Yamatos kind of playstile is that of the menacing areadenial fortress. If you find a good position where you can punish most of the players if they try to push caps while mostly angled to the enemy team Yamato does it's best.

I do play my Yamato like that a lot, and I do think it's one of the ways it should be played. 

Yet the best position is somewhere near an island, where you're shielded from HE, yet still can do damage. That usually means two things - you're shooting only 6 guns, and you're very dependant on the competence of your DD.
If your DD dies, that's it. The whole flank falls. And there is nothing you can do. You get constantly torped, everybody turns around and leaves you. Since you're a Yamato and you're easy to citadel, turning around is not an option. If you try, you lose 50-60% of your HP instantly. 2-3 citadels and you're there. Not only that, but you're not manoeuvreable enough to do such a thing as an escape.

And that is my point. For everything you suffer with the Yamato, you should get rewarded. Ships that push you arrogantly in the face and give you broadside - you SHOULD be able to punish them with citadels. But it does not happen. What is to blame - t10 BBs armor too good, and too much scatter on Yamato shells. 

 

2 hours ago, Miessa3 said:

Well I always try to keep my comments mostly helpful if there is a clear attempt to learn from the OP.

:Smile_honoring:
 

2 hours ago, Miessa3 said:

The LM will certainly up the accuracy noticably.

I really do hope so, I'm 1 game away from it (39'400 / 40'000 base XP).
I will post how it feels later in the evening (fingers crossed).

2 hours ago, Miessa3 said:

Also citadells aren't everything. sure they do the most damage, but sometimes it is just better to walk away with 3-6 normal pens than trying to hit that hard to hit citadell and doing way less damage as result. The way the Km BBs are balanced is a good example of this.

Citadells are not everything, you're right. But it's pretty much the defining feature, why people choose the IGN BB line.
The great FUSO, with it's 12 guns, the reliable Amagi (which used to be good, now it looks like everyone is sh*tting on Amagis :<)

KM BBs are fun to shoot broadside, as you get 20'000 dmg without citadels, most of the time. Like I said - fingers crossed - I hope the Legendary Module will allow me to hold the flanks with accurate fire, and not get rushed by underage ships and what not. o7 :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[OMPG]
Beta Tester
348 posts
6,314 battles
27 minutes ago, coyob said:

and when you get your moment of glory...a broadside cruiser...it fails, one shell hits it in the citadel area, you get 1400 dmg. WTF ? You see the shells go, and there's no result.

At close ranges maybe 10km or less if you catch a broadside cruiser and hit the citadel but get just 1480 overpen it is because sometimes the citadel armor belt of that cruiser is either too thin to arm the 460mm shell or the fuze time of said shell is so long that at close range velocities it exits through the ship before it has time to arm. In real life the shell would detonate on the other side of the ship at some distance depending on the fuze time. In this game this is considered as a overpenetration so 1480 dmg. I know it is frustrating but that´s the way it works. :cat_bubble:Maybe the trick here is to avoid flat broadside cruiser but to wait for him to turn a bit away and then blap it I don´t know.

 

460mm is best to use against heavily armored and / or angled targets (for example just like the german bbs) to make best use of it´s overmatch and raw penetration and arming treshold and fuze time mechanics. I for example am having huge problems citadeling worcesters full broadside 10-15km away but KM BB broadsides are extremely juicy targets on the other hand even at extreme ranges because possible citadels due to turtleback long-range weakness.

 

Republique has a turtleback too yes but it is nowhere near as effective as KM BB turtleback. A few weeks back I got to brawl a Rep closerange and put him easily out of his misery with citadels sailing my Fat Freddy 406mm AP of all the things.

 

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[OMPG]
Beta Tester
348 posts
6,314 battles

Here is a nice discussion about penetration mechanics: https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/174009-how-does-ap-work-at-90°/

 

Here is a nice tool to see penetrations, fuze times, flight curves etc: https://mustanghx.github.io/ship_ap_calculator/

 

Enjoy your reading if you are interested!

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UTW]
Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters
8,979 posts
7,359 battles

With a Moskva at a proper angle, I can guarantee I can bounce pretty much every single high caliber AP that doesn't go into my superstructure or my squishy 25mm part. The trick is to open a bit the angle to bait someone into firing in your citadel, and turn in the salvo to actually bait the shot into the angled armored belt.

That works with every single cruiser bar Minotaur (and even then, Minotaur got some armored parts it can use, too).

 

Yamato legendary IS good. It turns the second most accurate battleships in the game (because Goergia exists now) into an even more accurate ship.

 

If you have too much trouble hitting citadels, don't bother. Aim at the mid-section of the ship, right into the upper belt. It will prevent most overpenetration and you will hit for 20k+ with a good salvo. 20k is always better than nothing.

 

Against other tier 10 battleships, the best moment to aim for the citadel is a mid-range, when they are 3/4 angled. You can just aim under the first turret. République hates it. Montana hates it. Other Yamato hates it. Only Conq and GK tanks it, and both will lose a lot of HP.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
10 posts

So. Played it with the Legendary module.
I cannot believe it :DDDDD

First salvo - 22.1 km at Saint-Louis missed, so I used it as a ranging shot.
Second salvo at the forementioned ship, only shot with 2 front turrets - 19.5 km., 3 shells hit, 1 citadel penetration. ~20'000 damage

I couldn't believe it. With stock Yamato I kept shooting and shooting and shooting, all of the 19km. salvos missed every single time.
Ended the game laughing, 150'000 dmg, 1,9k base xp, 3 citadels, 1 ship sunk (1 got stolen :<). Every single salvo, that used to be 1/9 shell hits, is now 3/9, or 4/9 or even 5-6/9.

What the heck ?

 

4 hours ago, TohtoriP said:

 or the fuze time of said shell is so long that at close range velocities it exits through the ship before it has time to arm

If it is the way you described it, how useless is this ship then in such situations :DD
Some of the Yamato shells are the size of a medium sized man :DD
"No problem guys, the shell did not detonate, we're fine"
And thanks for the links, gonna bookmark them for later investigation. *thumbs up*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BGNAV]
Players
203 posts
8,927 battles
18 hours ago, coyob said:

I think they've made it too tanky. It has the most accurate guns of t10 BBs all round, most of them, it has great AA (used to be the best - still is ?) for a BB. 
I find this kind of "balance" ridiculous.

While what you say is correct, I don't think Monty is OP in any way. If you are in a BB and you angle against Montana's guns, only superstructure hits will yield damage.

 

Monty with accuracy upgrade feels on par with non-legendary Yamato (also with accuracy). The USN BBs get 11% dispersion improvement instead of the standard 7% from this upgrade. The drawback is that for Monty is that it uses the last slot and you have to choose between reload and accuracy. However, Montana throws more sh!t at the wall - 12 guns vs 9. So far it looks like it is winning, but you should take into account the overmatch mechanics and raw penetration. At mid to long ranges Yamato does a lot more consistent damage where Monty gets mostly overpens, shatters and bounces. 

 

Overall Montana is the better cruiser and DD killer, better tank and better AA platform (the latter is not that meaningful after the CV rework - you will still take lots of hits from planes). Against BBs (with captains who know what they're doing) Montana struggles compared to Yamato. Personally I love both ships, but Yamato feels more consistent in being able to damage anything on the battlefield.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LAFIE]
Beta Tester
4,853 posts
5,332 battles
5 hours ago, Mr_Tayto said:

This entire thread can be explained by:

 

RNG

And/or PBKAC.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-LD-]
Players
202 posts
8,203 battles

RNG is cruel.

I have had the very same issue with Yamato. Then, when I got the legendary module, ever since it feels like a sniper, even though mine is a secondary build.

 

Now, the supposedly accurate Georgia is trolling me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LAFIE]
Beta Tester
4,853 posts
5,332 battles
20 minutes ago, optimal_909 said:

RNG is cruel.

I have had the very same issue with Yamato. Then, when I got the legendary module, ever since it feels like a sniper, even though mine is a secondary build.

 

Now, the supposedly accurate Georgia is trolling me.

Georgia? Accurate? Surely you jest, regardless of what the wowswiki article says..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-LD-]
Players
202 posts
8,203 battles
10 minutes ago, lafeel said:

Georgia? Accurate? Surely you jest, regardless of what the wowswiki article says..

I was crucified on reddit when I said the Georgia isn't OP.

 

She has her moments, but guns are overrated and her armor is pretty vulnerable, bow-on it loses against most other BBs, broadside she can be deleted in one salvo almost. She feels like a giant IJN cruiser without the reliable damage output.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LAFIE]
Beta Tester
4,853 posts
5,332 battles
5 minutes ago, optimal_909 said:

I was crucified on reddit when I said the Georgia isn't OP.

 

She has her moments, but guns are overrated and her armor is pretty vulnerable, bow-on it loses against most other BBs, broadside she can be deleted in one salvo almost. She feels like a giant IJN cruiser without the reliable damage output.

Reddit is a waste of time tbh.

 

And nothing I have seen of the Georgia since she was announced has tempted me to get her. The best cure for thinking she's OP is to watch her being played.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×