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Seaswagger

literally no idea what I'm doing with Z-46

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Having fumbled my way through the German destroyer line, I arrive at Z-46. And I am met by so much hateful messages against me, it's unbelievable. I mean I'm not the best player but give me a break dangit I'm trying.

 

In any case, I'm trying to git gud, if you will, but asking for advice in game chat only results in people telling me to do wildly different things, followed by reports for playing poorly being filed against me after the people whose advice I inevitably had to ignore get angry with me for not listening to their advice. Like, calm down, I can't hide in a corner, defend C and rush A at the same time, I'm but a single squishy boat.

 

aaaaaanyway, that brings me here. I can no longer stand the toxicity of the general public so I hoped a more... filtered version of the player base would be able to give me some advice on how to play a Z-46 without getting reported.

 

 

tl;dr people hate me please help me fix this.

 

Edit: so far the plan is to go through various other types of ships until T6 or so, while also taking a step back and getting good with mid-tier German destroyers before I return to the Z-46

Edited by Seaswagger

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I suggest to go back a few Tiers and get used to german DD more.

Tier VI is a good point to start.

 

Try out which way you want to play the line or even each ship.

German DD can be played gun focussed, torpedo focussed or a mix of both.

 

When you know what works and what you like, you advance to Tier VII.

 

Your primary counter are other DD, CL and CV.

I suggest to also get experience in at least one of these lines to better understand how they counter you.

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I was pretty decent at the previous ones tbh. guns seemed to work better for me than torpedo's did, but as soon as I shoot with the Z-46 I die.

I have also put a little time in CV, so I've got some vague idea of what's annoying to aim at for a plane.

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You need to use more AP on the Germans against other DDs. Changing ammo in the right time is the key. But the more radars on high tiers the harder. Though get into the Z-52 , it has 6km hydro and more aggressive gun layout. The drawback is worse concealment than the Z-46. 

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13 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

You need to use more AP on the Germans against other DDs.

are you saying I should use AP on other destroyers, or that I should use AP more than I would using other destroyers?

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Just now, Seaswagger said:

are you saying I should use AP on other destroyers, or that I should use AP more than I would using other destroyers?

You should use AP on broadside targets. Against other DDs (especially Khaba that some of you HE will shatter - 50mm sections) that are giving broadside . 

Ofc you can't be a Minotaur and use only AP. As I told you, playing Germans you need to change ammo on the right time.

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1 minute ago, MacArthur92 said:

You should use AP on broadside targets. Against other DDs (especially Khaba that some of you HE will shatter - 50mm sections) that are giving broadside . 

Ofc you can't be a Minotaur and use only AP. As I told you, playing Germans you need to change ammo on the right time.

so AP on hulls when I can get at broadsides, HE on superstructures otherwise?

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10 minutes ago, Seaswagger said:

so AP on hulls when I can get at broadsides, HE on superstructures otherwise?

Yep. Try to shoot AP against khaba , you get 1.8-2k dmg per salvo. On HE you get 248-500 dmg. Pathetic. On lower tiers DDs had less armour so the shells just overpen. On higher tiers DDs have more armor so they so much more dmg.

And if there's a BB broadside, smoke up and AP him as much as you can.

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KM DD line is ok and you get pretty fast reloading torps however the fact that you have hydro doesn't mean you will clear the cap in a blink of an eye.  First be aware of enemy radars' positions, then you can approach the cap and use your smoke and hydro to avoid enemy torpedoes.  Don't expect to rush in the cap and use your hydro in the first minute of the match in order to sink the enemy dds because it won't work most of the times.

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4 hours ago, tsounts said:

Don't expect to rush in the cap and use your hydro in the first minute of the match in order to sink the enemy dds because it won't work most of the times.

Aaaand this is where I find the most hate. Not rushing points. It seems that every time I don't rush I get reported. 

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My dear friend, where do we start to get this thing fixed for you ?

 

Somewhere above you said: I was pretty decent at the previous ones tbh 

Honestly, you might have felt alright, but in terms of statistics you were very far from being ok with these ships. You might want to have a look at this: https://wows-numbers.com/de/player/558878467,Seaswagger/

 

From the T5 on up to your Z-46 you never were good ... sorry to say.

I dont want to bash with stats - i am far from being good too - but you didnt do any real damage in any of the DDs so far. Its just normal your Z-46 does not work.

 

Someone advised you to go back to T6 and try to get into the traits of this line. I would give the same advice.

Gaede at T6 is pretty typical for a german DD. Go get it and try to achieve at leat serverlevel with this ship. Then repeat with Maas and Z-23. 

If you just keep on dying your way to the TX, you wont have fun and your team either.

 

Really dude, you are shooting up the tree too fast, without having learned enough to survive at hightier.

 

And yes, maybe you try a cruiser line up the techtree to learn, how a DD (and its mistakes) are seen from the foes side.

 

Good luck :Smile_great:

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My advice to all "newish" players are: Play all the T1s, then all the T2s and so on. You will learn the ships, you will learn the classes, you will learn the maps, you will learn alot. At least start of this way. When you reach midtier you can start to peel of into the classes and nations you feel works best for you but play everything. You will benefit from it in the end.

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14 hours ago, MacArthur92 said:

Yep. Try to shoot AP against khaba , you get 1.8-2k dmg per salvo. On HE you get 248-500 dmg. Pathetic. On lower tiers DDs had less armour so the shells just overpen. On higher tiers DDs have more armor so they so much more dmg.

And if there's a BB broadside, smoke up and AP him as much as you can.

Most DDs should fire AP on a broadside Khabarovsk at close range, because the armour will make the shells penetrate. Same can be said for the Gearing. Gearing and Khabarovsk are the only destroyers in game with additional armour plating. The other high tier DDs all have 19mm hull, 13mm super structure. Correct me if I am wrong, see armour viewer yourself if you want to be sure. (EDIT: I believe there is another high tier DD with some different kind of armour, but I need to look that up in the game myself later on).

 

At OP
The reason most suggest to fire AP on broadside DD's with KM is because:
HE shell damage: 1,500

Penetration: 1/3 of 1,500 = 500

 

AP shell damage: 3,000 

Penetration: 1/3 of 3,000 = 1,000

Overpenetration: 1/10 of 3,000 = 300

 

You can test it for yourself in a training room, but if you are near an enemy DD and he is flat broadside your AP shells will over penetrate the DD, thus resulting in only 300 shell damage. In this instance you are better of firing HE shells. 
But if you are knife fighting an enemy DD it is most likely that he won't be flat broadside. This will increase the odds that some of your AP shells will fuse inside the ship, causing penetrations. As you can see above you don't need many penetrations to make it the better shell type, however when the target is at auto bounce angle your shells will bounce, thus  do 0 zero damage.

 

The easiest way to play the T9 and T10 DDs is to start in a training room and test it yourself against bots. Just make the bots stand still, so that you can test it at a couple of firing ranges and angles. Shima for instance is quite a narrow ship, so it is less likely that you will make penetrations happen on her.


The reason I think the German DD line is trash is because they nerfed flooding damage and improved HE shell damage of IJN torpedo boat line. Sure the hydro is a nice gimmick, but who's going to fall for that... It is also nice that you need to use your smokes nowadays vs CVs...


Anyhow good luck with the line. The RN DD line is much more enjoyable and also gives you hydro. The distance is shorter, but still gives you a 1km advantage against other DDs.

EDIT: The reason AP is often a good choice for the high tier RN DDs as well is because they have improved auto bounce shells. Increasing odds on penetrations as well. RN AP also fuse on 19mm, the typical DD armour layout. For some reason I am always having trouble finding the fuse timers list on the Wiki...

The reason that AP on broadside DDs at close range is useless for your Z is because your AP shells fuse on 21mm. Since typical DD armour layout is 19mm they won't fuse.

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when you click on "details", you will see, what the average player with this ship achieves in terms of damage and whatsoever. That would be the so called serverlevel.

 

There is no need to go completely nuts about statistics, they just can help in finding out what really goes on.

 

If you like the german DD, so go and play it. Its a game to have fun and not to please others. Just be aware that could be the reason why others flame you :Smile_smile:

 

Back to serious:

your experience is very limited in the moment. You just play these special DD almost exclusively and so you miss quite a lot of necessary experience to survive in hightier.

At T8 - T10 there are lots of hydros (up to 6 km range), lots of radars (up to 12 km) and some ships that have it all.

 

I would suggest to start additional shiplines, to get to know, what cruisers can do and waht they cant. How BB really behave and how these ships see DD, can fight them or cant.

Additionally try another DDline, that differs in playstyle, lets say the panasian with their deepwater torps, that are enormously powerful, but cannot hit a DD.

 

Just gather differnt experiences ... as many as you can

 

:Smile_Default:

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Let me add another thougt:

 

me personally, i dont prefer hightier (T8 - T10) that much. I researched almost every tree but kept only a few T9 and TX in port.

I dislike this static plastyle, these enormous differences between seasoned veterans and less experienced casual players (like me).

My favourite tierspread is T6, T7 and some T8. Especially T6 and T7 teach you the most.

Lots of different ships with wonderful gimmicks and you dont lose so painfully many credits if you get downtiered and get blapped  within the first minutes.

T9 and T10 are very difficult to play without losing credits.

 

As i mentioned before: my average tier (according to stats) is 6,3. That is where i have fun ... :Smile_honoring:

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28 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

Gearing and Khabarovsk are the only destroyers in game with additional armour plating

Gearing? As I remember just the khaba does have. Gearing is just pretty "thick" or wide. So the BB AP in the past was arming in him , not like the Shima. But it's a passé thing.

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1 minute ago, MacArthur92 said:

Gearing? As I remember just the khaba does have. Gearing is just pretty "thick" or wide. So the BB AP in the past was arming in him , not like the Shima. But it's a passé thing.

See the armour viewer in port for the Gearing. 

Gearing eats penetrations like a mad man from other DDs.

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Just now, LemonadeWarrior said:

See the armour viewer in port for the Gearing. 

Gearing eats penetrations like a mad man from other DDs.

Yes because it's big and thick one. So AP will arm. I did 8k AP dmg from Zao (I was expecting a broadside cruiser but instead I got the Gearing) 

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7 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

Yes because it's big and thick one. So AP will arm. I did 8k AP dmg from Zao (I was expecting a broadside cruiser but instead I got the Gearing) 

It doesn't matter how big or thick the Gearing is to arm AP shells. There are two ways an AP shell gets armed and that is by hitting armour that is 1/6 of the gun caliber or by water. 

The thicker a ship is the more likely it is that an ARMED AP shell will detonate inside it.

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7 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

It doesn't matter how big or thick the Gearing is to arm AP shells. There are two ways an AP shell gets armed and that is by hitting armour that is 1/6 of the gun caliber or by water. 

The thicker a ship is the more likely it is that an ARMED AP shell will detonate inside it.

That's what I meant. The thicker the ship the more distance the shell travels in it and detonates inside. 

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3 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

That's what I meant. The thicker the ship the more distance the shell travels in it and detonates inside. 

Sure, as long as you know that that is half of the story.

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As interesting as this technical dispute might be, imo its not that helpful for @Seaswagger and his problem ...

 

Anybody some more ideas for the threadowner, that might help him ?

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