Upcoming Monarch citadel nerf

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

OK so what they're testing on the PTS right now is to include Monarch into the British BB re-balancing, for some reason that I frankly can't fathom. That ship seems to be needing a straight-up buff.

 

To offset it, Monarch gets a somewhat better heal but what they are doing to the armour is they've basically split ther casemate horizontally at the waterline, declaring the lower half henceforth to be part of the citadel. Find details in the developer blog, link below.

 

I am not sufficiently versed in the whole armor thing to predict how badly that will actually affect the ship. When grinding through Monarch, frankly I didn't feel to be all that secure from citadels when broadsiding. The citadel is still below the waterline, and that upper former casemate part does seem to have fairly thick armour, 381mm forward and 356mm to the rear... what does it all mean?

 

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/public-test/bulletin-086/#balance

[El2aZeR]

It means if you know how to angle this is a straight up buff.

[Chaos_Umbra]

TBH what the entire line needs is a massive HE nerf with an accuracy buff cause all the ships are just not fun to play or play against rather than buffing the portable Dockyard and making the citadel bigger than the Montana's in the old days.... The whole lines concept it stupid from the get go so any changes they will do won't really fix the main issue...

[Mr_Snoww]

5 hours ago, Chaos_Umbra said:

TBH what the entire line needs is a massive HE nerf with an accuracy buff cause all the ships are just not fun to play or play against rather than buffing the portable Dockyard and making the citadel bigger than the Montana's in the old days.... The whole lines concept it stupid from the get go so any changes they will do won't really fix the main issue...

Except that wont happen because He is literally the entire point of the line. Well except for monarch. They are very easy to deal with now and will be even easier to deal with after the citadel nerf. I know its the nature of people to hate HE spam but seriously if you are having consistent problem with conqs etc you need to position better and well... just kill them faster.

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, Mr_Snoww said:

just kill them faster.

 

You're joking, right?

If the Conq just remotely knows how to angle this "nerf" has absolutely no effect. What WG is doing here is just unnerfing Conq heal (something they, you know, nerfed for a reason), the citadel adjustment will have little to no consequences for all but the most ed s so most Conqs you meet will be stupidly difficult to kill unless they misplay horribly.

[RenamedUser_92906789]

Gimmick, gimmick... they have to keep the gimmick at all cost ;)

[rnat]

19 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

If the Conq just remotely knows how to angle this "nerf" has absolutely no effect.

It makes her a significantly less forgiving brawler tho.

She used to be better at it than the Curry ('cept v. Yamatos and getting close under HE-spam) due to the better turret angles,

but now she can get deleted by the return-shot if she doesn't pull it off in the 1st salvo or can't get a perfect approach.

 

-sincerely

someone who's too retarded to play her safely ^^

[MoveZig]

I'm always leery of heal buffs, because afaik repairing can also reset damage saturation. As for the cit nerf... it could have been a nightmare on t7 and below (see Nelson), but I expect on t8+ it usually won't matter (as long as you angle even a bit) except vs. Musashi + Yamato.

[Hopeless_Guppy]

I feel some training rooms coming on I need to be an angling monster, I'll have a chat with my clan commander, who sadly refuses all voice comms, but hey ho nvm.

[ClappingLollies]

6 hours ago, Mr_Snoww said:

Except that wont happen because He is literally the entire point of the line. Well except for monarch. They are very easy to deal with now and will be even easier to deal with after the citadel nerf. I know its the nature of people to hate HE spam but seriously if you are having consistent problem with conqs etc you need to position better and well... just kill them faster.

The only issue with the Monq and other RN HE spammers now is that if you get hit by one salvo it strips most of your AA away. Not very great gamedesign when one salvo from one type of ship does that. Its great if you play CV's ofc. 

 

As for the citadel. Who cares?

[Panocek]

12 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

It means if you know how to angle this is a straight up buff.

Even then, citadel ends at waterline. I don't see Iowas and Montanas autoimploding when they broadside... unlike old glorious times.

 

Actually, this change might add UK BBs to list of viable AP bomb targets

[Skyllon]

How about raising citadells on ALL battleships, except brawlers?

 

As for RN BBs, how exactly vulnerable citadell impacts long range HE spamming?

[Donar79]

Vor 6 Stunden, Mr_Snoww sagte:

I know its the nature of people to hate HE spam but seriously if you are having consistent problem with conqs etc you need to position better and well... just kill them faster.

I don't think its hating HE spam. It's more about being forced to use HE on a BB.

 

[HaachamaShipping]

That this is no "nerf" has been stated by experienced players from the moment these changes were announced the first time. Conqueror is going to be way harder to kill if they know what they are doing and the Monarch will certainly get a whole lot more out of the ship, given the improved repair party and 75% repairable pen damage.

6 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Even then, citadel ends at waterline. I don't see Iowas and Montanas autoimploding when they broadside... unlike old glorious times.

Iowa and Montana also don't get 32 mm cit deck. Unless you are a Yamato/Musashi, if you don't hit at the waterline, your shell will just skip off the armoured deck for a normal pen.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

Surely the more proper technical term would be 'incoming'...

 

But seriously speaking, I don't like this kind of changes. The way they have configured the BB's and their armor layout in the game already makes them massively pre-nerfed in my opinion. If they start making BB's more vulnerable to incoming AP salvos and still keep them vulnerable to HE spamming as well, BB's will become entirely obsolete. While I advocate a tad more realistic approach in naval warfare games, I don't think they would need to copy the reality of WW2 and post war developments this faithfully and selectively....

 

For the record, I mostly prefer to play DD's on higher tiers. This type of changes would make the high tier BB's completely redundant for me.

[Panocek]

9 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

Surely the more proper technical term would be 'incoming'...

 

But seriously speaking, I don't like this kind of changes. The way they have configured the BB's and their armor layout in the game already makes them massively pre-nerfed in my opinion. If they start making BB's more vulnerable to incoming AP salvos and still keep them vulnerable to HE spamming as well, BB's will become entirely obsolete. While I advocate a tad more realistic approach in naval warfare games, I don't think they would need to copy the reality of WW2 and post war developments this faithfully and selectively....

 

For the record, I mostly prefer to play DD's on higher tiers. This type of changes would make the high tier BB's completely redundant for me.

If that means average amount of BBs per team goes from 5 to 4 then I'm all in

 

16 minutes ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

That this is no "nerf" has been stated by experienced players from the moment these changes were announced the first time. Conqueror is going to be way harder to kill if they know what they are doing and the Monarch will certainly get a whole lot more out of the ship, given the improved repair party and 75% repairable pen damage.

Iowa and Montana also don't get 32 mm cit deck. Unless you are a Yamato/Musashi, if you don't hit at the waterline, your shell will just skip off the armoured deck for a normal pen.

Actual armored deck is higher, this is/would be splinter deck. But conveniently bumped up from 19mm to important 32mm because reasons

[Karasu_Browarszky]

Just now, Panocek said:

If that means average amount of BBs per team goes from 5 to 4 then I'm all in

 

True.. the teams have become very BB heavy lately. As I can't really manage cruisers or carriers, I've been somewhat guilty of being party to that myself.

[Panocek]

2 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

True.. the teams have become very BB since 2016

Fixed.

 

WG "ackgnowledged" BB overpopulation as a thing around time of introduction of German BB... I've yet to see actual nerfs or MM changes related to battleships.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

5 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Fixed.

 

WG "ackgnowledged" BB overpopulation as a thing around time of introduction of German BB... I've yet to see actual nerfs or MM changes related to battleships.

 

Well, from my point of while the BB's are understandably overly popular compared to the other classes nerfing them is the wrong solution. I can only speak from how I experience the game, but what IMO needs to be done is make the BB game much less campy and more aggressive and also make the cruisers more competitive so they can do better what you'd expect cruisers to do. DD's in general I think are fine and the most balanced class out there.

[KillStealBoss]

This was needed because it was too stupid not getting citadeled . Though if you know how to angle it’s a buff cause they buffed the heal 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

6 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

This was needed because it was too stupid not getting citadeled . Though if you know how to angle it’s a buff cause they buffed the heal 

 

Does this mean they are now trying to encourage people bow tank even more? Why can't they just give us proper sizes maps so that we'd have actual room for tactical maneuvers?

[KillStealBoss]

Just now, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

Does this mean they are now trying to encourage people bow tank even more? Why can't they just give us proper sizes maps so that we'd have actual room for tactical maneuvers?

To maneuver more. I saw many Conquerors stationary broadside 20km. Too stupid. Conqueror has good legendary for better rudder. 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

2 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

To maneuver more. I saw many Conquerors stationary broadside 20km. Too stupid. Conqueror has good legendary for better rudder. 

 

I see.. I agree that stationary = stupid but how is bow tanking going to give us dynamic BB play?

[KillStealBoss]

1 minute ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

I see.. I agree that stationary = stupid but how is bow tanking going to give us dynamic BB play?

Do you see Montana bow tanking? Nope. It's wasting 50% of the fire power. Maybe the Monarch and Lion players will do this. Although Lion has good range so can be camping and maneuvering. Monarch has range problem and maybe you're right, players can bow tank on it. 

[Yedwy]

Dont know about monarch per se but i know most balancegrads are already salivating when they see those raised citadels