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Krumpir_3

Is this some kind of joke

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So recently I got put in a tier 10 battle with Bismarck (what a suprise),  the enemy pushed us hard and out of nowhere comes Kronshtadt full broadside on me (10-12 km) and i shoot whole salvo, guess what not even one citadel 2 overpens , 1 pen , and 2 ricochets for a total amount of 4k  dmg  , but that isn't even the best part  he shoots back while I am angled and gets a citadel on me.... So i tought well maybe it was my aim, after reload he is still broadsiding me and I  shoot him ( 3 pens and 3 ricochets ) guess what 4k dmg again, at this point i was mad so after THE 3rd RELOAD HE IS STILL BROADSIDING I SHOOT , you guessed it 4k dmg no citadel (3 pens ,3 overpens, 1 ricochet) and meanwhile he is doing 4-6k dmg(AP) on me while I am angled and it blew my mind. Like is this supposed to be some kind of a joke, because if it is I don't dig it. Fix your game Wargaming.

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6 minutes ago, Krumpir_3 said:

So recently I got put in a tier 10 battle with Bismarck (what a suprise),  the enemy pushed us hard and out of nowhere comes Kronshtadt full broadside on me (10-12 km) and i shoot whole salvo, guess what not even one citadel 2 overpens , 1 pen , and 2 ricochets for a total amount of 4k  dmg  , but that isn't even the best part  he shoots back while I am angled and gets a citadel on me.... So i tought well maybe it was my aim, after reload he is still broadsiding me and I  shoot him ( 3 pens and 3 ricochets ) guess what 4k dmg again, at this point i was mad so after THE 3rd RELOAD HE IS STILL BROADSIDING I SHOOT , you guessed it 4k dmg no citadel (3 pens ,3 overpens, 1 ricochet) and meanwhile he is doing 4-6k dmg(AP) on me while I am angled and it blew my mind. Like is this supposed to be some kind of a joke, because if it is I don't dig it. Fix your game Wargaming.

It is not a joke, it is of balans camrade

 

 

After all, you can't have German ship picking a fight with glorious Russian one in a game developed by Russians for (Belo)russian company:Smile_trollface:

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30 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Or fix your aim...

 

Don't be so hard on the man, everyone knows Bismarck's guns are far from reliable and capable of missing the target even at sub 8km ranges while being perfectly capable of serving exclusively overpens on broadside cruisers at the same time, all thanks to flat arcs and high velocity shells. When you shoot at a target 15km away at least you expect to miss, missing shots at ranges that are supposed to be the ships strong side is what makes the Bismarck a frustrating experience.

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Balans!

Bismarck does suffer from a fair degree of, how can we put it, randomness, when it works it is great, when it doesn't, ah well!

 

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9 minutes ago, Logan_MountStuart said:

Balans!

Bismarck does suffer from a fair degree of, how can we put it, randomness, when it works it is great, when it doesn't, ah well!

 

 

I find both it and the Tirpitz are "feast or famine" boats.  Either circumstances play out to your strengths and you have a good showing; or else you're pressured out of your bread-and-butter zone and just end up praying to RNGesus that your main battery keeps chunking out enough damage that you stay relevant and your team-mates don't suffer.

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1 hour ago, Krumpir_3 said:

you guessed it 4k dmg no citadel (3 pens ,3 overpens, 1 ricochet) and meanwhile he is doing 4-6k dmg(AP) on me while I am angled and it blew my mind. Like is this supposed to be some kind of a joke, because if it is I don't dig it. Fix your game Wargaming.

Here's the problem: 

-1. you hit plenty good enough (surprising as Bismarck has troll s dispersion and can miss the side of a barn), but most are overpens --> use the HE.

AP overpens on broadside cruisers unless you manage to hit the citadel. A very hard (and very lucky) job with Bismarck. 

HE will not overpen. In that case: 3 pens + 3 (non over!)pens = 6 x 4400 damage for that same salvo.

- 2. Him hitting you for 4-6K must be him shooting your superstructure and getting overpens or shooting like crap.

As his max damage from an AP shell is 9.000 PER SHELL you were lucky. And yes he can citadel you, too. 

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42 minutes ago, BlackYeti said:

Don't be so hard on the man, everyone knows Bismarck's guns are far from reliable and capable of missing the target even at sub 8km ranges while being perfectly capable of serving exclusively overpens on broadside cruisers at the same time, all thanks to flat arcs and high velocity shells. When you shoot at a target 15km away at least you expect to miss, missing shots at ranges that are supposed to be the ships strong side is what makes the Bismarck a frustrating experience.

If everyone knew, we would not have these threads.

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1 hour ago, Krumpir_3 said:

but that isn't even the best part  he shoots back while I am angled and gets a citadel on me...

How sure are you that it was a citadel?
At that range the turtleback tends to protect the Bismarck pretty well against cits in specific, and even rainbow arcs tend not to come into play.
Far more likely is he just got so many non-citadel pens on non-saturated parts of your ship and it played the massive-damage sound effect?  can't say I remember how well Kronstady's guns interact with Bismarck's armour scheme at that range, let alone at whatever angle you might've presented.

Also, secondaries buff incoming next patch, IIRC?  Should help a bit depending on your build?

Consider going into a training room with a load of Tier 8-10 CA bots and learning the angles and ranges that cause overpens for the Bismarck, when it's feasible to go for cits, and when it's better to load HE and commit to secondaries.

If you think this is a pain, you should feel my sorrow when my Yamato gets bounces because there's a funky immunity-zone around the 16km range and RNG pops my shells down their sides instead of through their decks.

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31 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

AP overpens on broadside cruisers unless you manage to hit the citadel. A very hard (and very lucky) job with Bismarck. 

In general yes but should hardly be a case with kron, that thing is enormous, you hit midships its citing time even from a Roma

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Post a battle replay - someone may be able to suggest something from watching it.

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15 minutes ago, BrusilovX said:

Post a battle replay - someone may be able to suggest something from watching it.

We never saw - and will never see - any replays is such threads.

Guess why?

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15 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

In general yes but should hardly be a case with kron, that thing is enormous, you hit midships its citing time even from a Roma

I hit them plenty in a Conqkek... citadel no problem.

But I have seen Bismarck miss my whole Conqkek at 7km... so...

Yes I can believe he'll not hit a cit in 3 salvoes. In fact I think it's likely...:Smile_veryhappy:

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53 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

1. you hit plenty good enough (surprising as Bismarck has troll s dispersion and can miss the side of a barn), but most are overpens --> use the HE.

Another brilliant playtip from Blub, shoot HE at broadside cruisers. :cap_popcorn:

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6 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I hit them plenty in a Conqkek... citadel no problem.

But I have seen Bismarck miss my whole Conqkek at 7km... so...

Yes I can believe he'll not hit a cit in 3 salvoes. In fact I think it's likely...:Smile_veryhappy:


I've had an Alaska beached broadside to my Izumo at 10km and only get hit by a third of the shells from all three turrets over the course of three or four salvoes.  And I think only a handful of those shells actually penetrated properly.

 

3 minutes ago, Lieut_Gruber said:

Another brilliant playtip from Blub, shoot HE at broadside cruisers. :cap_popcorn:


I'm genuinely interested in how the forum comes down on this:  Is it better to have a load of ovenpens for a fraction of the damage salvo-after-salvo, or to counter-intuitively load HE on a boat with "meh" HE damage and fire-chance on the grounds that "it's actually going to apply its damage AND AOE modules and maybe start a fire or two..."

My rule of thumb for Bismarck is "all AP all the time", but whenever the only damage I deal from a salvo happens to be overpens, I do rethink that policy very heavily.

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I have Bismarck.. have you got her set up right?

-7% dispersion helps...

 

Are your crosshairs right for you?

You can change them you know...

I used to have the most detailed crosshairs at the start then as i became more experienced didn't need them so use a more simplified set...

 

Are you aiming correctly?

 

 

 

Are you at the right range?

Close in Bismarck does little damage with her mains but at around 12km to 15km aim right citadel city...

 

Anyway Kron at the right angle can be a bloody hard nut to crack...

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45 minutes ago, WynnZeroOne said:

tbh all the BB's I've seen this week are shooting HE, even USN ones.

No surprise there if AP overpens or shatters, the just spam the HE, I alternate between the two on times.

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9 minutes ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

Are you at the right range?

Close in Bismarck does little damage with her mains but at around 12km to 15km aim right citadel city...

 

Anyway Kron at the right angle can be a bloody hard nut to crack.

 

2 hours ago, Krumpir_3 said:

out of nowhere comes Kronshtadt full broadside on me (10-12 km)

:cap_horn:

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15 minutes ago, Ace42X said:

I'm genuinely interested in how the forum comes down on this:  Is it better to have a load of ovenpens for a fraction of the damage salvo-after-salvo, or to counter-intuitively load HE on a boat with "meh" HE damage and fire-chance on the grounds that "it's actually going to apply its damage AND AOE modules and maybe start a fire or two..."

If you know where to aim, AP always gives better damage, and it is harder to repair. Use only HE if you have no chance to pen.

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23 minutes ago, Lieut_Gruber said:

Another brilliant playtip from Blub, shoot HE at broadside cruisers. :cap_popcorn:

Errr, no. Read again. This time put on the glasses. :cap_cool:

Actually normally you wouldn't. I'd dfinately shoot AP when in Hood, count on a few citadels.

But if you have Bismarck... count on overpens, because you'll be REALLY lucky to get a citadel. 

I'd get overpens with Hood too f if I miss the citadel (but I will not miss...). :Smile_trollface:

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2 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Errr, no. Read again. This time put on the glasses. :cap_cool:

Actually normally you wouldn't. I'd dfinately shoot AP when in Hood, count on a few citadels.

But if you have Bismarck... count on overpens, because you'll be REALLY lucky to get a citadel. 

I'd get overpens with Hood too f if I miss the citadel (but I will not miss...). :Smile_trollface:

 

1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Here's the problem: 

-1. you hit plenty good enough (surprising as Bismarck has troll s dispersion and can miss the side of a barn), but most are overpens --> use the HE.

What did i read wrong then?

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9 minutes ago, Lieut_Gruber said:

If you know where to aim, AP always gives better damage, and it is harder to repair. Use only HE if you have no chance to pen.


Given RNG, I'm interested to know how to tackle this, I mean if you're overpenning through the guts of a victim - where can you aim for a better chance at penning and how reliably can you hit it?  Surely not superstructure, as that's even thinner than the ship's belly; ditto for bow and stern if broadside.
Maybe higher above the waterline if there's an armour belt that's just thick enough to trigger a fuse?  Aren't there a load of ships where even that's not going to trigger a bismarck AP shell?  Not sure how generous RNG is to send shells there rather than into the sky and past her?

I've tried shooting into the water to test if that can force a fuse trigger, my results were mixed but I got the impression shells hitting the water were disappearing rather than arming.

I have the same situation when I'm trying to shoot at an angled ship on the grounds that "hey, there's gotta be enough bulkheads through that bow for this to work" and end up getting ricochets or bracketing the victim instead.

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3 minutes ago, Lieut_Gruber said:

 

What did i read wrong then?

the rest of the sentence? Bismarck getting many overpens?

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2 hours ago, Krumpir_3 said:

So recently I got put in a tier 10 battle with Bismarck (what a suprise),  the enemy pushed us hard and out of nowhere comes Kronshtadt full broadside on me (10-12 km) and i shoot whole salvo, guess what not even one citadel 2 overpens , 1 pen , and 2 ricochets for a total amount of 4k  dmg  , but that isn't even the best part  he shoots back while I am angled and gets a citadel on me.... So i tought well maybe it was my aim, after reload he is still broadsiding me and I  shoot him ( 3 pens and 3 ricochets ) guess what 4k dmg again, at this point i was mad so after THE 3rd RELOAD HE IS STILL BROADSIDING I SHOOT , you guessed it 4k dmg no citadel (3 pens ,3 overpens, 1 ricochet) and meanwhile he is doing 4-6k dmg(AP) on me while I am angled and it blew my mind. Like is this supposed to be some kind of a joke, because if it is I don't dig it. Fix your game Wargaming.

He didn't get a citadel on you. If you're full broadside maybe. From closer range Kron has no dispersion issues , has good pen so can make 12-16k only pens. 

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