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little_rowboat

A won bet, a little show off and some observations

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Well.. finally that I won my bet, I thought about if it's smart to write something about the experience or not.

On the one hand there probably is a wide mass being disgusted by margin of difference in results and call it a pure show off, on the other hand some might take the one or another fact to improve.

I'd be lying if I say it's not written for both, but let's keep it short on this behalf.

 

What was the bet about?

With the beginning of the rework of the CVs I had repeated (sometimes harsh) arguments with 2 friends, if it is possible to adapt or if WG makes it impossible to perform in the most affected class - the DDs.

I said whatever WG throws into meta, it always is possible to adapt - my 2 friends denied and that resulted in a bet if:

  1. it's possible to get rank 1 in wowsrating in europe in the 1k+ leaderboard
  2. it's possible to keep a solo 66,67% winrate in this meta
  3. it's possible to get rank 1 in at least 5 ships in the european wows rating leaderboard
  4. it's possible to get rank 1 in at least 1 ship worldwide in the wows rating leaderboard

 

General Conditions of the bet:

  • only Random Games count
  • only DDs allowed
  • every game must be played solo
  • at least 1000 games
  • no tier 1-3 for sealclubbing
  • at least 75% must be played tier 7 and above
  • at least 50 games in each tier
  • at least 60% winrate in each tier

 

So I undusted my test account in january  2019, sent my 1st account to sabbatical, and tried it.

No, it's no reroll and it will never be - because then those records would be deleted. If an account is a reroll you can easily see in the important moments section on the wows-profile: there will be new damage records lower than former damage records and there will be new ships that already had been there. The important moments section in reroll accounts is inconsistent.

 

What's the result of the bet?

Is it possible to get rank 1 in wowsrating in europe in the 1k+ leaderboard?

Yes it is - even world wide only 1 is higher (4068 wows-rating) in the RU area and this guy played 5494 games tier 2 chester - that's passion :etc_hide_turtle:.

Rating-Leaderboard 1k+ Europe:

Spoiler

Leaderboard.thumb.png.81c3df5bb97aff5ef2f3f9e24e732054.png

 

Is it possible to keep a solo 66,67% winrate in this meta?

It obviously was - in the end I dropped below 70 % with 67,93% - got a bit uncalm to finish this project within my holidays.

 

Is it possible to get rank 1 in at least 5 ships in the european wows rating leaderboard?

Yes it was - see the list of 6 Ships below

Spoiler
  • Sims
  • Nicholas
  • Kagero
  • Yugumo
  • Fubuki
  • Akatsuki

 

Is it possible to get rank 1 in at least 1 ship worldwide in the wows rating leaderboard?

Yes it was - see the list of 4 Ships below

Spoiler
  • Kagero - also world wide damage record with 329.502
  • Yugumo
  • Fubuki
  • Akatsuki

 

Sideffect of the bet was rank 5 worldwide in average EXP per game (2.515) for players with 1k + games (according to shipcomrade).

 

What's my conclusion out of the bet and it's results?

I mentioned it several times in the certain threads: No matter how tough the meta seem (for DDs) it's always possible to adapt and to perform well in both relations - relatively to the others (ratings) and absolute (average exp, winrate).

And I swear, I had a lot of fun adapting and doing so. That's also the reason why I denied to receive the stake the bet was about, because it was fun to do so.

Sure, I know it's almost impossible to do this leaderboard hunting with an existing account, but all those, that despise this effort I challenge to do it for at least 21 days (longest period shown in wows-stats) with like 200 games under similar conditions.

Not sure what to do now - stick to this or get back to the other account mainly.. time will show. :etc_hide_turtle:

 

Some observations I made on myself, ships and teammates/opponents

(1) The maximum rating in a certain ships correlates with the skillgap of the captains using it.

The higher the rating of the first in the leaderboard is, the higher is the difference of skill in using the ship. That's common sense as the rating is relatively to the others.

That means, that (besides Grozowoi) the Tier X DDs show no big skill variation between the captains using it.

This fact also might lead to which DDs (and all other classes) are easier to handle for starters than others because those who seem to be superunicums doesn't get a significant higher output than others.

 

(2) Cut bad streaks and continue good ones

There are ships that don't suit you - either every day or on some days. Don't force it - forcing it never works out and leads to overextending which reduces fun immediately.

 

(3) Don't feed the troll / don't argue with others while playing

Well, that's a challenge.

When you go into a game, you do certain things that result in a gameplan for yourself. Don't let others force you to throw this over because they bully you inside chat to do this and that.

Stick to your plan, adapt if the game situation necessitates it, but neither feel forced to do dumb things because som guy you don't know and who most probably has no clue tells you so, nor ffel the need to explain it ingame.

It only leads to unnecessary failures, uncomfortable gameplay and due to his reduced fun.

If you ffel the need to reply - do it after the battle - the need to reply mostly vanishes until then.

 

(4) Stick to the plan

Like mentioned in the section above - stick to the plan - but what plan?

The more you play and the more you stick to what you thought about your play will be like when you start a game, the more you will get evidence if it works or not - that's learning.

You will learn best by doing and getting instant feedback of your actions be results and ingame happenings. If you learn from those happenings you will improve.

Which level of improvement satisfies you and provides you fun - it's up to you.

Back to the plan.

You should have a certain idea what is up to you and what you want to do when your ship starts moving.

It depends on your class, your ship and your expectations out of the match (which may be influenced by missions, trying a certain build or whatever).

Your plan is up to you - depending on the plan there is some match preparation.

 

(5) match preparation

The loading time (depending on your hw-configuration) could easily be used to prepare for the match.

I will touch it from a DD point of view:

  • Check Team List for CVs, Radar Cruisers, enemy DDs and Divisions
    • Team Lists: are there certain solo classes or tiers? Matchmaking is gonna mirror our team to enemy team with spawn if those aren't in divisions. Meaning a single tier 9 radar cruiser will start from the mirrored position of our single tier 9 (radar) cruiser when both aren't in divisions and both are the only tier 9 cruisers - same for CVs, DDs, and other classes and/or tiers. It leads to additional information often but not every game.
    • CVs: If they are there and you dont have decent def aa have an eye where enemy CV sets focus in the early game.
    • Radar Cruisers: which are they, what's their range, where might be common spots for them to sit and cover areas - (might help as a shortcut: https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Consumables#Surveillance_Radar)
    • Enemy DDs: Who could you meet and what would you do when meeting them - engage, shoot/don't shoot, run, smoke/don't smoke,...
    • Divisions: Who of the enemy is in a division? - This might lead to more information during the game when one member pops up or it might have direct impact on the decision what to do with an enemy DD when it's in division.
  • Make a plan
    • What are you gonna do with the informations out of checking the team list and is that gonne be likely to work due to your experience or not. That's a progress and it will get better from time to time.
  • Talk about your plan and communicate effectively
    • I at least write which base I check or which enemy ship I'd like to be focused (mostly DDs or Radar Cruisers).
    • During the game you should avoid writing long text - it distracts yourself and teammates too. Use the ingame commands and mark targets.
    • Sometimes a hint to make teammates push the strong side while you block the weak side is a usefull hint, but like said, write no poems und dont react to/start principled dicussions during the game.

 

(6) error culture

Errors are not bad, just learn out of them - dont feel bad about making one, it's one more information that would result in a better gameplan next time.

No need to apalogize, no need to react to certain phrases like "noob", "learn to play" and stuff.. that get's thrown around by everybody to everybody.

Even I hear it on a regular basis. When I'm not calm enough to not feed the troll I sometimes reply get my results then call me noob, but that's stupid either. Such discussion neither help nor make sense.

 

(7) ship hopping

Many people tend to play the daily 100% (or atm 200%) bonus with as many ships as possible to grind.

If you want to improve on a certain clas or a certain ship, that's not conducive.

Stick to a certain ship or smilar ships for some time. I myself also have bad games when switching between US and RU DDs for example.

If the ships played while learning/trying to improve vary too much it makes that learning and progressing very hard. When playing DD a not so perfect aim or a misjudged agility of the ship on a DD knifefight will end bad.

When you reach a decent level that that ship hopping impact will reduce, but it will always be there.

In german we got a saying which translated means: humans are habitual animals.

 

(7) last but not least.. it's only a game

In the end this is only a game that should provide some fun - like said before: you can't force it.

You yourself define what the fun will be and only you yourself define if a certain game was fun or not.. no other troll will define and no stats page will define this.

The basics could be easily learned in the wiki, in this board with many willing to help fellows and simply by playing.

Above I mentioned some things that might help to go into a game with a plan and how to learn out of experiences made while playing.

The section about the bet was to show, that not every negativity in this board should be taken to serious - while it was not the intention to deny the negative personal experience that lead to those threads and stuff.

 

See you at the sea.. hope some of the mentioned things will help one or another.. :etc_hide_turtle:

 

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59 minutes ago, l_m_just_lucky said:

Snip*

 

Well done mate.:cap_like:

 

Quick question, did you completely AA spec your DD's? Because your planes kills are quite high with Sims and Nicolas (AA DD) being your most played by-far. 

 

Your top 6 DD's (most played) are all what i would call AA DD's. 

 

This is in no way dissing you at all but just an observation to others that are looking at playing DD's in the future.

 

I always AA spec my DD's and THIS is the reason why. 

 

You also favoured premium ships in their tiers (7, 8) with the Fletcher being a solid DD for it's teir (Also AA spec i presume).  Again that's an observation only as you really are good in your Yugumo (102,00 Av damage):cap_fainting:

 

But well done for all that good stuff.  Having that information to share shows that it can be done and you have evidence to back it up.  GJ. 

 

Having that WR too in SOLO games.:cap_fainting:

 

So do you think DD's are the easiest to play right now? Copes better with the MM than say Cruisers do? People will be interested that all mate. 

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It's just that i have switched to DD's and so far having a great time in them.

 

They suffer less to MM than any other line IMHO. 

 

KIDD, GROZ and LO-YANG being my favs. 

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Vor 38 Minuten, Redcap375 sagte:

 

Well done mate.:cap_like:

 

Quick question, did you completely AA spec your DD's? Because your planes kills are quite high with Sims and Nicolas (AA DD) being your most played by-far.

 

So do you think DD's are the easiest to play right now? Copes better with the MM than say Cruisers do? People will be interested that all mate. 

thx :etc_hide_turtle:

No, not really AA specced besides the def AA consumable. On Farra and Mahan I even forgot to use the C-hull where it would had been possible.

On the IJN DDs the AA would be a waste - didn't even played Kagero and Yugumo with smoke but with torp reload.

Biggest skillgap I witnessed on IJN. Easiest to learn, toughest to master I'd say.

 

No need to hide the settings - they don't vary too much over all ships

Sims

Spoiler

shot-19_07.08_13_00.51-0913.thumb.jpg.55493d54393f14e1cafddb25dbeea99c.jpg

Fletcher

Spoiler

shot-19_07.08_13_04.05-0555.thumb.jpg.02e50e086757bc30245fdd23d8345b9c.jpg

Blysz

Spoiler

shot-19_07.08_13_04.34-0157.thumb.jpg.348d3ee7a647d1525aaadd04466704e5.jpg

Yuki as an example for IJN - when TRB is available I always choose reload booster over smoke

Spoiler

shot-19_07.08_13_05.25-0474.thumb.jpg.65d9e38f3cb23c9aeda06b813c50b830.jpg

 

Vor 38 Minuten, Redcap375 sagte:

So do you think DD's are the easiest to play right now? Copes better with the MM than say Cruisers do? People will be interested that all mate. 

I wouldn't say so - I'd still say BBs.

DDs still are high risk, high reward and next to CVs the most decisive class for the outcome of a game.

Losing 1 or 2 more DDs than the enemy mostly means losing the game. Due to capping, spotting, smoking up, acting, damaging there is a direct impact on the game but the more effective and more often impact is when a DD caps and the enemy team has to make a (bad/desperate) move because points are ticking.

But with a bit of map awareness everybody should be able to contribute to a game in a DD.

Personally I think it's the most satisfying class due to the directly possible impact on a game and due to being less dependent on others - one has to align with what others do but if they do bad things you can adapt or micromamage to correct a bit.

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Great job mate.  Thanks. 

 

It shows that anyone, when they are good at a class, can achieve this solo WR. 

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1 hour ago, Redcap375 said:

It's just that i have switched to DD's and so far having a great time in them.

 

They suffer less to MM than any other line IMHO. 

 

KIDD, GROZ and LO-YANG being my favs. 

Yep . Asashio also is really good at any MM. And I can say it's better to be on T10 MM on it cause there's more damage to deal. And more credits and exp dealing damage to higher tier ships. 200k on it and I got 920k brutto credits with only Zulu signal. 

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[RONIN]
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Frankly, your account (also the hint in the name) seems a reroll account. 

I had an arround 60% WR in my first 10 k games, now as I am closing to 20 k games i had dropped to 58%. And this is played mostly (but not only) solo, not skipping the bad ships in a line (only started skipping ships in a line when you could get them in the lottery containers - another great invention of WG, who is now amazed there are not enough players in the lower tiers) , and refusing to play a lot some OP premiums (being a veteran player I have owned ships like Nikolai, Kamikaze, Belfast, etc. from the beginning). 

However, playing only strong dedicated AA DDs, what you did is maybe achievable in this CV heavy meta, but for a ln experienced player, not a 1 k games player. 

 

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Vor 11 Minuten, 22cm sagte:

Frankly, your account (also the hint in the name) seems a reroll account. 

I had an arround 60% WR in my first 10 k games, now as I am closing to 20 k games i had dropped to 58%. And this is played mostly (but not only) solo, not skipping the bad ships in a line (only started skipping ships in a line when you could get them in the lottery containers - another great invention of WG, who is now amazed there are not enough players in the lower tiers) , and refusing to play a lot some OP premiums (being a veteran player I have owned ships like Nikolai, Kamikaze, Belfast, etc. from the beginning). 

However, playing only strong dedicated AA DDs, what you did is maybe achievable in this CV heavy meta, but for a ln experienced player, not a 1 k games player. 

 

You should read the first post at least before commenting. There is everything mentioned and explained why it‘s no reroll and what was the purpose and that most records where on IJN silver DDs. :-)

 

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Congratulations!

 

Now I challenge you to write a good primer to teach people how to play DDs. LOL

I 'm joking LOL

 

Congratulations again

 

Regards

Saltface

 

 

 

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[WGP2W]
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Well done, your are way better than me! 

 

I am curious how you will perform with the smokeless French DDs, when the CV population is on the rise again. I tried a couple of times in my Le Terrible, but lost common sense after a few rocket strikes.

 

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[RONIN]
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39 minutes ago, l_m_just_lucky said:

You should read the first post at least before commenting. There is everything mentioned and explained why it‘s no reroll and what was the purpose and that most records where on IJN silver DDs. :-)

 

Good for you then. Is this account public? 

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@l_m_just_lucky

Well done mate! Followed your achievements on the achievement page and everytime you posted I was like "dis gon b gud" :cap_cool:

So.... Cruisers next? :Smile_trollface:

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Vor 3 Stunden, Saltface sagte:

Now I challenge you to write a good primer to teach people how to play DDs. LOL

I 'm joking LOL

That’s a question of time. A real guide for beginners and profound consideration of most aspects of the game and differences in nations would take a week for DDs only.

At least now I‘m free to team up someday. :etc_hide_turtle: 

I mentioned some of the things to consider, most improvement comes from individual play and made experience. Definitely worthy is what you already did: loading up replays and let the game be judged thru others eyes. Here are some  competent guys around who already gave advice in the other thread.

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Vor 3 Stunden, 22cm sagte:

Good for you then. Is this account public? 

You mean the other one? Yes it has public stats and sometimes is pretty close to this one in the rankings. :etc_hide_turtle:

But beside the two guys nobody knows the link to this one, not even the clan members in the other one.

I did not used it as this one here is in the KOKOS clan which is a community of interest to sum up oil for advantage.

It would not had been fair nor proper to use both at the same time.

There is no need to reveal the other one.

Either I drop this one the next weeks or the other one keeps sleeping or leaves clan and is handed over to my „little“ 26y old brother as he doesn’t like grinding and there is all inside beside the latest steel ships and after rework CVs.

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Vor 2 Stunden, GarrusBrutus sagte:

@l_m_just_lucky

Well done mate! Followed your achievements on the achievement page and everytime you posted I was like "dis gon b gud" :cap_cool:

So.... Cruisers next? :Smile_trollface:

Thx mate, I feel honored :etc_hide_turtle:

Cruisers would be the logic choice looking into the old account:Smile_trollface:

Let‘s see what floats my boat, at least I can promise not to play CV anymore. Skipped to use them regularly after the very first Midway nerf in 2014/2015 (?)  :Smile_teethhappy:

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Vor 4 Stunden, LemonadeWarrior sagte:

I am curious how you will perform with the smokeless French DDs, when the CV population is on the rise again. I tried a couple of times in my Le Terrible, but lost common sense after a few rocket strikes.

 

Do you experience the same with the russian gunboats in heal-setting? 

I don‘t really feel comfortable to play DDs that almost fully rely on guns. I consider the mixture of decent torps and guns to be stronger than without torps, but that’s individual and my personal preference (since the removal of stealth firing^^).

 

I consider it tough in the current meta, still playable at a superunicum level and some guys still can produce way more efficient than me. What I miss there is the game decisive factor in close ranges and contesting caps - on those things you mostly depend on others when choosing the gunboat-kiting-speedster DDs.

 

Like mentioned in the 1st observation in the 1st post, watching deeper into the rating-range of ships one can get a pretty good opinion which DDs are decisive and which DDs can be used really efficiently if you find out how. That’s those with the highest range of ratings. Mostly average exp and winrates correlate. And RU DDs (and french will) have a pretty small range compared to US and IJN (non gunboat line) for example.

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34 minutes ago, l_m_just_lucky said:

A real guide for beginners

should make the reader understand the intricacies of destroyer play and think how these can be adapted and made to perform in his own game.

 

And this my friend is hard work. Both from the side of the author and the side of the reader.

 

OFC I am a hopeless optimist. I would welcome any grouping of good players contributing to such a "book". The best thing we can do. Aren't we complaining for lack of tutorials? Darn, I got carried away again.

 

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16 hours ago, l_m_just_lucky said:

Do you experience the same with the russian gunboats in heal-setting? 

I don‘t really feel comfortable to play DDs that almost fully rely on guns. I consider the mixture of decent torps and guns to be stronger than without torps, but that’s individual and my personal preference (since the removal of stealth firing^^).

 

I consider it tough in the current meta, still playable at a superunicum level and some guys still can produce way more efficient than me. What I miss there is the game decisive factor in close ranges and contesting caps - on those things you mostly depend on others when choosing the gunboat-kiting-speedster DDs.

 

Like mentioned in the 1st observation in the 1st post, watching deeper into the rating-range of ships one can get a pretty good opinion which DDs are decisive and which DDs can be used really efficiently if you find out how. That’s those with the highest range of ratings. Mostly average exp and winrates correlate. And RU DDs (and french will) have a pretty small range compared to US and IJN (non gunboat line) for example.

I cannot tell yet, since I have barely played SN gun DDs with heal in the current meta. Been playing the Daring a lot lately and I kinda figured out that when I have to play against a CV that I need my smokes. I have 7 charges of smoke and it is only when there is a CV in the game that I run out of those charges. The plus side is that spotting isn't really necessary, but the downside is that I have to sit still, even when I am just a few km away from an enemy cap...

I guess it is fortunate for WG that they will release the MN gun boat line in a meta where the CVs are on a low population point again. They have some really good guns and very decent torpedoes, but when the difference between good and garbage is a CV it kinda sucks imo...
Anyhow I will try playing the Le Terrible again now there are less CVs around. She's a really fun ship to play :D

 

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Vor 5 Stunden, LemonadeWarrior sagte:

Anyhow I will try playing the Le Terrible again now there are less CVs around. She's a really fun ship to play :D

brings the rogue wave feeling to randoms, at least speedwise :Smile_child:

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Vor 21 Stunden, Saltface sagte:

A real guide for beginners should make the reader understand the intricacies of destroyer play and think how these can be adapted and made to perform in his own game.

 

And this my friend is hard work. Both from the side of the author and the side of the reader.

 

OFC I am a hopeless optimist. I would welcome any grouping of good players contributing to such a "book". The best thing we can do. Aren't we complaining for lack of tutorials? Darn, I got carried away again.

 

I doubt this is gonna happen.

WG got not the sense that it needs and the players having the knowledge got no serious interest in doing that for the love of the game because they either got no time or consider it unjustified to do WGs work for nothing when WG doesn‘t give the impression to community they are doing their part accordingly. They just don‘t even react to positive approaches of the community.. might be ok from a business point of view if there is no indicator the business lacks ignoring those approaches..

 

In fact everyone can see the disbalance in the intentions to do positive approaches between user community and service provider.. as long as this is that obvious, I doubt many will take the plunge to put in so much effort.. as sad and as counterproductive it is, it‘s totally comprehensible.

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Come on dude, now im 2nd place in Yugumo. But at least you couldn't get my Farragut :Smile_trollface:

 

To be serious, congrats to the results and thanks for showing that all the whining mostly comes from bad DD players which would be still bad without CVs in the game. DDs are playable and still have high impact on games.  This doesn't make the CV rework any good tho. 

 

Sadly none of these "special" DD players that are still charging caps with AA activated will read this.

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