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TruePhoenix

I'm absolutely rubbish, or so some say

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Hello,

 

An ordinary player here, I have about 12 months experience, with a large gap but I'm progressing nicely. I have spent a little, nothing big, just enough with premier to tick along nicely.

 

I aim reasonably well, I tend to position ok for the ship I'm in, eg I'll kite in my Hindi with HE from about 20.5k or a little lower, my Lazo is fun and the Lenin is interesting, Gnu is my favourite. I even torp when I can, although those Japanese CC are weird. So here is my little issue and its nothing too much to worry about, its a game after all.

 

1. I can end up in teams that constantly get wiped inside 5-10 minutes. They charge in, or stay away or run and not support (ie you are fighting like a madman and when you die, the 3 other ships that were beside you are now 15k to the rear, left or right. Never in front though).

 

2. I keep losing, I mean 9 out of 10 losses in random. Even if I do massive damage like 100k in a CC we still lose. What's with this?

 

3. Dead team members who have a go when you are dodging 4 of the enemies incoming fire, telling you to intercept DD at B or uninstall because you are near the edge of the map, whilst taking fire from 4 different directions. Is this normal or just the expected loser debate?  

 

4. So, is the game fixed? Is it about grabbing more cash from losers (I am so rarely on a winning team that it cannot be chance) so they think they will buy the way to winning?

 

Ta. 

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You are a victim of the simple fact that WOWS in its current iteration suffer from very poor game balance. You will also have to accept, that in probably 7-8 out of every 10 games you play, you will have absolutely zero impact on the battle outcome, due to several factors of which some, at least don't really exist in World Of Tanks. Whether or not you have fun playing WOWS, despite its shortcomings, well that's an entirely subjective thing.:)

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I've only been playing 5 months but I do think it evens out.

1. You will come up against other teams who manage to do the same in reverse and you can have a long streak of losing heavily and suddenly it will turn and you will have periods of team success, it is very, very random though.

2. When I say it evens out, sometimes it doesn't feel like it but today I was killed in a Ranked Battle in a Fiji on NA for absolutely no damage!  We won and I thanked the team profusely.

In 6 randoms battles that followed I did 143k, 163k, 188k, 160k, 138k and 155k, all in the Fiji and I have never ever had a run like that, we won 3 and lost 3! lol!

3. Yeah, there is a lot of toxicity in chat, had a guy calling me a retard today because I was firing AP at an Asashio, d'oh, it's an RN Cruiser he was told and replied with the immortal phrase "so what?"  So you have to take the rough with the smooth.

4. No I don't think it is set up that way, I have picked up a few Premium ships from containers, missions etc. and none of them are particularly better than the relevant tech tree ships they complement, although they do aid in buffing credits, XP, commander XP and so on. 

 

Stick with it, play the ships you enjoy and stay thick skinned!  :D

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Hello to you as well and welcome to the forum.

 

There is not much that I can tell you (or anyone else for that matter) for two reasons:

1. your profile is hidden/ Therefore, we don't know your performance indices in order to identify flaws in your game. So, not much can be told to help you.

2. descriptions are not enough to draw any kind of conclusions. I would strongly suggest you post a replay of your matches. Someone will look at them and give you feedback based on what you actually did in a given game.

 

Based on what you described above:

 

1. It is your responsibility to monitor what your teammates are doing. If they are turning around and leaving I would suggest you do the same. Or else - 

29 minutes ago, TruePhoenix said:

the 3 other ships that were beside you are now 15k to the rear, left or right.

Be careful and don't overextend.

 

2. If you are losing 9 out of 10 most probably you are not playing well. Out of 10 games you will lose 3 and win another 3 no matter what you do. 4 games remain that you can influence. 

30 minutes ago, TruePhoenix said:

I keep losing, I mean 9 out of 10 losses in random.

 

3. There are good advice and bad chatter that come in the chat box. Learn how to filter it. But avoid scraping the borders of the map. Generally speaking it is not a good place to be.

 

4. No - There is no pay to win. No matter how much you pay, if you don't play good you will not win.

 

Welcome once again to the forum, the warm, friendly, polite and welcoming place for help, tips and advice etc etc uhmmmm....take this with a pinch (or a truck load) of salt...

 

Regards

Saltface

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Saltface said:

4. No - There is no pay to win. No matter how much you pay, if you don't play good you will not win.

 

Last I checked, 18-19 of the top 20 ships with the highest win rate in the game, were all either gold, steel, coal or otherwise premium/special status ships.

 

If that is not a sign of an emerging trend of the P2W element being slowly but surely introduced into WOWS, I don't know what is.

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47 minutes ago, TruePhoenix said:

 

1. I can end up in teams that constantly get wiped inside 5-10 minutes. They charge in, or stay away or run and not support (ie you are fighting like a madman and when you die, the 3 other ships that were beside you are now 15k to the rear, left or right. Never in front though).

 

2. I keep losing, I mean 9 out of 10 losses in random. Even if I do massive damage like 100k in a CC we still lose. What's with this?

 

3. Dead team members who have a go when you are dodging 4 of the enemies incoming fire, telling you to intercept DD at B or uninstall because you are near the edge of the map, whilst taking fire from 4 different directions. Is this normal or just the expected loser debate?  

 

4. So, is the game fixed? Is it about grabbing more cash from losers (I am so rarely on a winning team that it cannot be chance) so they think they will buy the way to winning?

  1. You can prevent damage on your team by sinking enemies. In other words, getting better helps a bit. But when ships next to you are 15km away from you when you look around the next time, I suggest to look around more often. Minimap is your friend.
  2. Damage alone is nothing. It counts where and when you do your damage. Farming 50k fire damage on a BB at the end of battle rarely wins games. I suggest to take a break after three losses in row. Frustration often leads to bad play.
  3. When you are at the edge of the map, they might have a point, but take everything with a grain of salt. But it is important to question your gameplay after a loss.
  4. There are enough F2P unicums and hordes of cash throwing whales with deep red stats, so: no.
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First, OP. Open your stats so we can look with you to see clues what is going wrong. Second: winning has got nothing to do with your skills. If your team doesn't know what it's doing you can't save them.

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1 minute ago, thoso1973 said:

Last I checked, 18-19 of the top 20 ships with the highest win rate in the game, were all either gold, steel, coal or otherwise premium/special status ships.

 

If that is not a sign of an emerging trend of the P2W element being slowly but surely introduced into WOWS, I don't know what is.

 

If I am a potato no matter what ship you give me I will lose.

Is the Belfast a Gold rather powerful ship? Yes it is. Some say it is irritatingly OP. If I play it, I assure you it will fail miserably. I don't know how to play cruisers.

I can make a list if you want of all the Gold ships I have failed in. 

 

I also checked the stats.

The players that have the "good ships" actually perform very well in all other ships and classes.

 

No it is not a pay to win game. If you want to say something...it is a pay to progress faster (as in get to higher tiers faster).

 

Regards

Saltface

 

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, thoso1973 said:

 

Last I checked, 18-19 of the top 20 ships with the highest win rate in the game, were all either gold, steel, coal or otherwise premium/special status ships.

 

If that is not a sign of an emerging trend of the P2W element being slowly but surely introduced into WOWS, I don't know what is.

It is a sign that you do not know how stock ships and high point captains affect the server stats of ships.

You also ignore that some of these ships can be got for free and these ships tend to have a very skilled playerbase.

Unless you can quantify these effects on the WR, it is a bit bold to call it P2W.

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Sure, let's just ignore that WG have introduced premium ships in the past that were so strong/OP, that they were permanently removed from sale.

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A little bit of dirty truth:

 

Quote

I can end up in teams that constantly get wiped inside 5-10 minutes. They charge in, or stay away or run and not support (ie you are fighting like a madman and when you die, the 3 other ships that were beside you are now 15k to the rear, left or right. Never in front though).

 

If you want to have an impact, pretend the team is a bunch of bots and navigate *around* their inevitable potato maneuvers to try to make a play happen. This is a game about patience and sometimes an opening presents itself where you can snag a few ships. This will make coward players grow a pair of balls and push sometimes. Those games in which everyone charges in and dies in 10 minutes are kind of irredeemable, but you can farm a bit of damage in the sidelines until the game ends. That's about it.

 

Quote

I keep losing, I mean 9 out of 10 losses in random. Even if I do massive damage like 100k in a CC we still lose. What's with this?

The important thing in a game is not as much "how" much damage you do as "what" you're doing that damage to. Is it a DD that's annoyingly spamming torps at your BBs preventing their push? Or is it some battleship that's making himself some easy target by either going AFK or derping around broadside in the back line? I'm not even talking about the idea that hurting destroyers gives you more XP. I'm talking about choosing targets that are trying to make plays themselves and forcing them to trade unfavorably.

 

To help provide some perspective, let's say I'm in my Gearing and I see 2 BBs pushing hard into a cap while posing a significant threat to my cruisers.... I give them no indication that I am present. I sail away from radar ranges and slam the pushing BBs with torpedoes. Once I see the torps get close enough, and something else is spotting them, I smoke up and start as many fires as I can, weakening them for my teammates to take down. Most of the time, my teams aren't even aware that they're doing things that win the game, but my own play kind of influences the way they behave. Instincts like these will come as soon as you ask yourself after every win/loss, "What could I have done to do better?" Watch how good CCs play (check their stats first, because some of them aren't necessarily the most influential in their battles).

 

Going back to my Gearing, you have to understand some of the more subtle roles of your ship. In the Gearing, I'm not just torping targets and shooting at them; I'm also smoking up crucial positions after communicating with my cruisers, providing intelligence to my battleships, sailing ahead to spot torpedoes coming from a destroyer I haven't spotted, baiting radars and keeping them lit up in their campy positions, pushing flankers back so that they would have more difficulty farming my 11 temporary buddies, zoning off the enemy with torpedoes (i.e., they're not likely to sail there, but if they do, it's a crucial position and I want to force them to take damage and/or slow down so that my team has time to breathe), and finally capturing key areas in the map. I'm not 100% concentrated on capping because that's basically how you suicide. And when I do it, I find a way to point my butt at the enemy while doing it so I can quickly flee and continue to preserve my health as much as possible to continue my impact in the game.

 

This is just one example of subtle "extra" roles and instincts you have to develop for one ship, a class of ships, or a line. It's why learning to play the game should be a bigger goal than getting to tier 10.

 

Familiarize yourself with cruisers and destroyers as much as possible, since battleships (at least in my experience) inhibit the fundamental learning process you go through to acquire situational awareness due to their tankiness.

 

Quote

Dead team members who have a go when you are dodging 4 of the enemies incoming fire, telling you to intercept DD at B or uninstall because you are near the edge of the map, whilst taking fire from 4 different directions. Is this normal or just the expected loser debate?  

9 out of 10 times, the person chiding you in chat after they're dead (especially the one blaming you for them dying) is some 400-PR nobody. Take good advice, but be mindful of the fact that the majority of advice you'll get is essentially horrible. If you see my stats, you'll notice I used to have a 46% WR and an abysmal 700 PR I'm still recovering from 1000 games later because of listening to these people. Giving into social pressure inhibits you familiarizing yourself with your ship, an important factor in eventually getting to carry some games that seem unwinnable.

 

If you can keep your guns afloat and learn when to fire and when to hold your fire throughout a match (torpedoes being the exception as they don't bloom away your concealment), and do that consistently, you will notice yourself winning more games than you lose, eventually. Take it from someone who went from 46% WR at 2500 battles to nearly 52% solo WR at 3654 battles.

 

Quote

So, is the game fixed? Is it about grabbing more cash from losers (I am so rarely on a winning team that it cannot be chance) so they think they will buy the way to winning?

It may feel that way, especially when you see the immense impact that some ships have in some players' hands. But the truth is that the player is far more important than the ship. I've seen Belfasts (which many people consider highly overpowered) with 20k avg dmg and 42% WR over 100 battles, and Akatsukis (which many people consider to be trash) with 66% WR and 60k avg dmg over the same number. These are outliers of course, but only for the fact that a lot of players just feel like taking their easy ships out at those tiers since they spend a lot of time in more stressful environments like T10.

 

That doesn't mean I can't bait the hell out of Belfast's radar and make it look like a fluffy chew toy. Trust me, it feels good once you get the instincts necessary to do stuff like that and annoy the hell out of seal clubbers with a powercreeped ship like the Sims :P

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2 hours ago, Sturmtiger_304 said:

What's Gnu?

 

It's a Wildebeest. Never seen one in WoWS, maybe it's a new addition?!?!

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hit enter

hold ctrl

right click their name

select mute.

 

the worst people are the sub-sentients who blame everyone else in chat, because they lack self awareness to process their own mistakes.

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4 hours ago, TruePhoenix said:

1. I can end up in teams that constantly get wiped inside 5-10 minutes. They charge in, or stay away or run and not support (ie you are fighting like a madman and when you die, the 3 other ships that were beside you are now 15k to the rear, left or right. Never in front though).

 

2. I keep losing, I mean 9 out of 10 losses in random. Even if I do massive damage like 100k in a CC we still lose. What's with this?

 

3. Dead team members who have a go when you are dodging 4 of the enemies incoming fire, telling you to intercept DD at B or uninstall because you are near the edge of the map, whilst taking fire from 4 different directions. Is this normal or just the expected loser debate?  

 

4. So, is the game fixed? Is it about grabbing more cash from losers (I am so rarely on a winning team that it cannot be chance) so they think they will buy the way to winning?

 

Ta. 

 

1/ The logic driving some players is impenetrable. You have fun, and contribute as well as you can.

 

2/ Yeah that happens. Watch out for confirmation bias though as they really do tend to even out.

 

3/ Dead team members can be muted and can't use the F keys. 

 

4/ Nope, people plateau. I'm old and crippled, have a shitty internet and a ping of 180. I average about 52%, and have been averaging that for the last few thousand games. Other people plateau at lower levels, with the worst actively contributing to losses because they are so useless. Win rate is like the stock market, don't pay any attention to it from one day to the next. Ignore everything but the average in your summary.  As a boringly average player with a rocky start will usually be around 48%. Literally half the player base is worse than them, and the other half better. Use guides and watch videos by better players and work on your weaknesses and try to reach that 48% if you aren't there yet. 

 

This game can be addictive and a money sink, but as long as you are having fun, everyone else can go play in the traffic. 

 

The Advice.

 

1/ While damage is the primary metric in this game is is largely meaningless unless it results in dead ships. Doing 30k damage and sinking 2 DDs is a lot more use than doing 100k damage and not sinking anything. Most fire and flooding damage is fully repairable. Shoot at DDs and cruisers as a priority, they win games. BBs are usually too far away to hit anything and will often make themselves irrelevant to winning the game by humping the map edge. 

 

2/ Map awareness. Spend a lot of time checking the map. Also keep in mind you can enlarge it. 

 

3/ Don't hump islands. You will generally turn away when shot at while outnumbered, so always try to ensure you have room. This is a very specific reason to be map aware. 

 

That is basically it. There is a lot of detail you will pick up over time, but that is the basics. kill enemy ships, don't hump islands and keep track of as much of the enemy team as possible.

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7 hours ago, thoso1973 said:

Sure, let's just ignore that WG have introduced premium ships in the past that were so strong/OP, that they were permanently removed from sale.

We do not ignore it. That is why they are removed from regular sale...

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8 hours ago, thoso1973 said:

 

Last I checked, 18-19 of the top 20 ships with the highest win rate in the game, were all either gold, steel, coal or otherwise premium/special status ships.

 

If that is not a sign of an emerging trend of the P2W element being slowly but surely introduced into WOWS, I don't know what is.

You're surprised that people who have been in the game long enough to earn all that coal and steel and whatnot happen to be experienced enough to play well in them?

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So how can we help you to become better at this game, OP? Did you already watch the "How it Works" serie by WarGaming on YouTube?

 

Angling, overmatch, penetrations, ammunitions, aiming, setup, etcetera?

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9 hours ago, TruePhoenix said:

Hello,

 

An ordinary player here, I have about 12 months experience, with a large gap but I'm progressing nicely. I have spent a little, nothing big, just enough with premier to tick along nicely.

 

I aim reasonably well, I tend to position ok for the ship I'm in, eg I'll kite in my Hindi with HE from about 20.5k or a little lower, my Lazo is fun and the Lenin is interesting, Gnu is my favourite. I even torp when I can, although those Japanese CC are weird. So here is my little issue and its nothing too much to worry about, its a game after all.

 

1. I can end up in teams that constantly get wiped inside 5-10 minutes. They charge in, or stay away or run and not support (ie you are fighting like a madman and when you die, the 3 other ships that were beside you are now 15k to the rear, left or right. Never in front though).

 

2. I keep losing, I mean 9 out of 10 losses in random. Even if I do massive damage like 100k in a CC we still lose. What's with this?

 

3. Dead team members who have a go when you are dodging 4 of the enemies incoming fire, telling you to intercept DD at B or uninstall because you are near the edge of the map, whilst taking fire from 4 different directions. Is this normal or just the expected loser debate?  

 

4. So, is the game fixed? Is it about grabbing more cash from losers (I am so rarely on a winning team that it cannot be chance) so they think they will buy the way to winning?

 

Ta. 

 

Hello and welcome shippers!

 

Well hidden states don't really tell us much.  You see YOU might be be the reason for the poor show of teams, or you can be carrying them.  Stats don't tell us everything, but it's a good start so by locking them your not helping.  All we have now is your word that you are an ALRIGHT player.  Alright in WOWS is so subjective. 

 

Is there P2W? Of course there is. It's that kinda game we play.  Most except that because if it wasn't, then games like this wouldn't make money.  Belfast, Kuts, Kidd, Lenn, Lo-Yang ect all ships that make them stronger than their silver counterpart.  That's not to say they are ALL better, but most are. That's not includiong Coal and Steel ships which are mostly better.

 

Premium, Coal and steel ships are trashing the stats so yeah, it's not hard to see P2W is rife or those that do and those that don't mentality. 

 

What brings that down a peg is that a Muppet will still be a Muppet regardless.  But if 2 players are equally skilled then the player with the premium normally comes out on top. 

 

I feel your pain with losing like we all do but, my view is that if your team is made up of potatoes then no amount of carrying in the game will be enough.  You just have to expect that.  I find it's the side with the better Div wins the day.  If they work as a team then 3 ships can give the enemy enough time for even potato friendlies to capitalise on. 

 

People flame for a number of reasons.  Some because there simply dead and want to vent or sometimes it's actually warranted. Without seeing your stats, i don't know which one it might be.

 

Kiting with a Hindy at max range is sometimes called for but not all the time.  You see your not using that turtleback armour with good HP.  So that means some other cruiser will be taking the damage instead of you.  It's like BB players sniping at the back and not taking any damage thought out the game.  So where does the damage go? Yeah, the poor cruisers or DD's trying to support each other near the caps.  The less targets the enemy has to shoot at, the quicker the one that is contesting the caps gets focused and dies.  If you ALL kite and snipe, then the game is as good as over. 

 

Battleship players have a bad habit of this, especially German BB players that snipe max range with something like a Kurf.  It's shocking. 

 

I used to think damage was everything, but the Conq told me otherwise.  I can farm all the damage i want but if i'm not taking damage or contesting areas fast enough, then the team will crumble. Basically getting involved in the game and not just spamming damage. Battleships should not be leaving the game with full heal.  If you are, then your doing it wrong! Badly. 

 

I often think if i'm not taking damage then someone else is, however i know how to WASD so i would rather have people shooting at me instead. Just look at people sailing broadside to anything regardless.  I seen a full health jean sail right infront of a Des for like 30 secs without even trying to turn yesterday (under 7 km).  The Des eat him alive.  He deserves to be flamed :cap_viking:  That is a tier 9 player! Not a tier 5-6 which you could sort of understand, but that is tier 9-10 captains nowadays. It's at it's lowest skill ever. 

 

Fixed? I would like to think not.  But this is real life and companies will do whatever is required to stay alive, especially one from Belarus (so Russia).  No one is naive enough to think they are squeaky clean.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hedgehog1963 said:

You're surprised that people who have been in the game long enough to earn all that coal and steel and whatnot happen to be experienced enough to play well in them?

 

Not at all. That's not the point I'm making at all.

 

It is perfectly possible for skilled players to play well and boost their WR with whatever means to co-exist in a game that offers premium content that boosts your WR independently of this element.

 

I find it deeply bizarre how some players reject the notion that WOT and WOWS contain elements of P2W trends. But we can talk more about this in a couple of years, when WG have introduced 2-3 additional super tanky OP Russian premium/coal/steel Battleships/Battlecruisers behind a paywall into the game. We all know they are coming.

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10 hours ago, thoso1973 said:

You are a victim of the simple fact that WOWS in its current iteration suffer from very poor game balance. You will also have to accept, that in probably 7-8 out of every 10 games you play, you will have absolutely zero impact on the battle outcome, due to several factors of which some, at least don't really exist in World Of Tanks. Whether or not you have fun playing WOWS, despite its shortcomings, well that's an entirely subjective thing.:)

I can understand why YOU think you can have zero impact in 7/8 games out of 10. But the fact is you are wrong. YOU may not have an impact in those games, but better players impact EVERY game they play. Reinforcing the OP's belief  of ' its not me, it's the game ' does not help him. 

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21 minutes ago, thoso1973 said:

 

Not at all. That's not the point I'm making at all.

 

It is perfectly possible for skilled players to play well and boost their WR with whatever means to co-exist in a game that offers premium content that boosts your WR independently of this element.

 

I find it deeply bizarre how some players reject the notion that WOT and WOWS contain elements of P2W trends. But we can talk more about this in a couple of years, when WG have introduced 2-3 additional super tanky OP Russian premium/coal/steel Battleships/Battlecruisers behind a paywall into the game. We all know they are coming.

 

Dont know how steel ships are supposed to be p2w, as you basicly cant buy steel (well, one time you could so far).

Good player + Good ship = high WR.

 

Spoiler

image.png.924f0a560c932e1f835768229f31f64b.png

Guess thats also OP premium p2w...

 

If bad players should get a high WR, they need an idiot proof ship.

https://wows-numbers.com/de/ship/3760109008,Stalingrad/?order=win_rate__desc&p=12

Deep red WR... with a ship, that has caused such an uproar in the community about being totaly OP. Guess that still doesnt translates into autowins.

https://wows-numbers.com/de/player/508812102,arminmauer/

If you look at this guy, Stalingrad is his worst TX ship by WR (not including ships with low battle count).

 

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33 minutes ago, T0L0S said:

I can understand why YOU think you can have zero impact in 7/8 games out of 10. But the fact is you are wrong. YOU may not have an impact in those games, but better players impact EVERY game they play. Reinforcing the OP's belief  of ' its not me, it's the game ' does not help him. 

 

Try read my post again, before misquoting what I actually wrote.

 

Even unicum streamers such as Notser, Flamu, Flambass continuously admit to occasionally being participants in battles that are unwinnable from very early on and they sometimes explain exactly why that is during their live streams. And I agree with them. 

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13 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Dont know how steel ships are supposed to be p2w, as you basicly cant buy steel (well, one time you could so far).

Good player + Good ship = high WR.

 

  Hide contents

image.png.924f0a560c932e1f835768229f31f64b.png

Guess thats also OP premium p2w...

 

If bad players should get a high WR, they need an idiot proof ship.

https://wows-numbers.com/de/ship/3760109008,Stalingrad/?order=win_rate__desc&p=12

Deep red WR... with a ship, that has caused such an uproar in the community about being totaly OP. Guess that still doesnt translates into autowins.

https://wows-numbers.com/de/player/508812102,arminmauer/

If you look at this guy, Stalingrad is his worst TX ship by WR (not including ships with low battle count).

 

 

P2W doesn't mean 'autowins'.

 

P2W means offering game content that offers the player a significant advantage; content often accessible either directly or indirectly behind a paywall.

 

Besides, handpicking a single player and singling out some of his/hers player statistics (chosen by you) to underline (or dismiss) a generel trend in the game, doesn't really work.

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