Battleship Comparison

[Exustio]

Hello ladies and gentlemen, 

 

Hope this comparison list will help u guys make better decisions which tree to pick, how to play, and possibly notice any imbalances within the Battleship classes (BB's). 

 

!!!!Excel WoWs Comparison Sheet!!!!

 

The Destroyers and Battleships can be found in their Tabs on the Excel sheets!

 

Hope this comparison helped u guys in picking which line to play, which ship to cry over, or which one to drool over and which one to rage over. I also hope these statistics might encourage some changes, as some are really needed. If nerfing is too much of a problem, then buffing their respective counterparts might be the solution.

 

As i stated before, the comments are usually my opinion and yours might differ, and if i have made any mistakes in calculations/observations do point me in the right direction please

I will most likely see u guys on the battlefield, and i will be glad to sink u to the bottom with a AP shell or 2

 

Exustio

 

If u like the sheet, thumbs up will help

[DavidPym]

Thanks for info.

 

Hope boost the range a little on Warspite and the armor on citadel but even without those boosts im still enjoying getting to be a RN captain and not a [edited] ;)

[Dagon_NOR]

Looking forward to see the finished version.

[xBamBamx]

Please bear in mind the thickness of citadel in Warspite is irrelevant, at less than 14k you cant hit it as its located below the waterline, shots that hit it from range arc down and can pen however if your getting hit from 14k they are not playing it right as this thing is so manoeuvrable.

 

BTW - GREAT job on all your comparisons

[Mr_Sukebe]

Useful stuff, many thanks!

Hadn't previously calculated the DPM for the various ships.  Helps me understand why the Fuso is so common.

 

Couple of points to improve:

 - Add in damage for a broadside.  Useful to understand a ships "alpha" damage capability

 - Not sure if those stats are for the upgraded or not.  Certainly the speed is incorrect for an upgraded Kongo, which can hit 31 knots.

[Hauptbahnhof]

 

Tier 3	Kawachi	Michigan
HP	38.700	-
Armor Citadel/Forward-aft/Gun/Deck	19-305/6-102/6-178/25-31	-
Main armament/#turrets/rotatespeed	305mm/4/40sec	-
#guns/reload/range	8/30sec/9.8km	-
DPM HE/ DPM AP	60.640/140.640	-
Secondary Armament/#turrets/#guns/range	120mm/4/4/3km 152mm/5/5/3km	-
Anti-Air/#AA/DPM/range	76.2mm/4/16/2.3km	-
Speed/Turning radius/Rudder Shift	22knots/700m/14sec	-
Concealment enemy Ship/Aircraft	9.5km/8.3km	-

 

Tier 3 Battleship comments

• Not a lot to say really, seeing we dont have anything to compare it with

 

Tier 4	Myogi	Arkansas
HP	45.700	-
Armor Citadel/Forward-aft/Gun/Deck	19-203/6-76/6-203/19-25	-
Main armament/#turrets/rotatespeed	356mm/3/37.5sec	-
#guns/reload/range	6/30sec/15.3km	-
DPM HE/ DPM AP	49.200/129.460	-
Secondary Armament/#turrets/#guns/range	76mm/3/3/3.5km 152mm/8/8/3.5km	-
Anti-Air/#AA/DPM/range	-	-
Speed/Turning radius/Rudder Shift	32knots/900m/16sec	-
Concealment enemy Ship/Aircraft	17.1km/9.1km	-

 

Tier 4 Battleship comments: 

• In my opinion, this is a step back from the Kawachi, as this ship is worse at everything except speed (yay, this is one of the ships u want to skip threw as fast as u possibly can

 

Very nice stat comparisons.

 

But I don't agree with your tier 4 comments at all. The range of the tier 4 is a massive increase from 9.8 to 15.3km ( over 50% ), which lets you outrange cruisers and provides massive freedom. The small loss of pure AP damage is also not a disaster since you get heavier guns that can penetrate armor better without losing turret rotate speed ( instead a small gain ). You also gain hitpoints.

 

And the main advantage speed is huge, this is the fastest Battleship currently in the game and will outrun most cruisers and keep pace with destroyers, all while having 2/3:eds of it's firepower located in the rear and being able to rain down death from extreme ( for tier 4 ) range while kiting away.

[tajj7]

Warspite is pretty much worse in every way. GG

[Hauptbahnhof]

Warspite is pretty much worse in every way. GG

 

Except for maximum armor thickness, gun caliber ( penetration ), gun accuracy, armor layout making it's citadel immune in close range, secondary gun range & accuracy, smaller sized target to hit, smaller citadel, smaller turning radius ( massive ) and concealment allowing it to sneak up to well within gun range ( only the tier 3 battleship is harder to spot )...

 

Other then that yeah sure it has weaknesses just like the Fuso with it's massive citadel does

[Shepbur]

Remember to be aware that most of the armour values in the port are incorrect as well

 

[Exustio]

 

Very nice stat comparisons.

 

But I don't agree with your tier 4 comments at all. The range of the tier 4 is a massive increase from 9.8 to 15.3km ( over 50% ), which lets you outrange cruisers and provides massive freedom. The small loss of pure AP damage is also not a disaster since you get heavier guns that can penetrate armor better without losing turret rotate speed ( instead a small gain ). You also gain hitpoints.

 

And the main advantage speed is huge, this is the fastest Battleship currently in the game and will outrun most cruisers and keep pace with destroyers, all while having 2/3:eds of it's firepower located in the rear and being able to rain down death from extreme ( for tier 4 ) range while kiting away.

 

To each his own opinions, im not a real big BB player, and when i went past the Myogi, i found him inferior to the Kawachi. So, yea, opinions may differ, which is your right, as well as mine

 

Remember to be aware that most of the armour values in the port are incorrect as well

 

Hurr durr durr, all hail beta! 

 

Yea, would think bugs/misinformation would be present in the harbor, and will change stats accordingly when they are confirmed, till then, this is all i can do

[Historynerd]

Why for the Kawachi only 8 guns are considered? I know that at most only four turrets can fire in a broadside, but this might mislead some people... Perhaps it should be explained in the final conclusions, the fact that this ship (along with others, like the Nassau or the Dreadnought derivatives) has staggered turrets and therefore only X guns can fire in a broadside.

 

Also, small typo, it's "North Carolina", with a final a. Sorry for being a pain.

 

Otherwise, really interesting; can't wait to see what will happen when the USN BBs will come.

[tajj7]

 

Except for maximum armor thickness, gun caliber ( penetration ), gun accuracy, armor layout making it's citadel immune in close range, secondary gun range & accuracy, smaller sized target to hit, smaller citadel, smaller turning radius ( massive ) and concealment allowing it to sneak up to well within gun range ( only the tier 3 battleship is harder to spot )...

 

Other then that yeah sure it has weaknesses just like the Fuso with it's massive citadel does

 

 

Minor and meaningless in gameplay terms advantages  don't compensate for significant disadvantages in important categories. 

[Hauptbahnhof]

 

 

Minor and meaningless in gameplay terms advantages  don't compensate for significant disadvantages in important categories. 

 

Yes concealment is totally meaningless, it's not like it can totally negate all the stats you consider superior with the Fuso like range, range and wait... range...

 

And I bet that turning on a dime avoiding torpedoes with ease is also very minor and meaningless, it's not like any Battleship captains on the forums are complaining about torpedoes, right?

 

Or how about getting blasted in the citadel at close/medium range and blaiming aimbot? Never heard that one either, so being protected from citadel crits sure must be meaningless.

 

[ posting pictures, if you can't beat your opponent with words... ]

[Xevious_Red]

The problem here is although we have some stats, which are very nice they don't give anywhere near enough info to judge accurately.

 

For example armour, and citadels. We have a min value and a max value. But how big is the citadel? Where is it located? Because if its underwater then its armour is far less of an issue. How much of the citadrl is covered with the min value? How much the max value? What angle is the citadel armour?

For example if you had 2 ships, and one had citadel min 30mm max 300mm, and the other had citadel min 5mm max 200mm, which one sounds better?

What if I now said the first one's citadel was the entire ship, with completely flat armour, that was 30mm all over apart from a tiny patch that was 300mm, and that the other ships' citadel was minute, underwater, completely angled, and 200mm all over apart from a tiny patch on the bottom that was 5mm.

Now which sounds better?

 

To reference WoT the KV5 has nice armour values on paper. Shame its armour is completely flat and thus easy to penetrate, and has a huge weak spot on the front. Similarly the T34 has a huge turret armour value. Which only applies to a very small portion of the turret.

 

Same for guns, and DPM values. They're all taken off the theoretical max damage. So the fuso does more damage if all 12 of its shells hit and penetrate the citadel than the warspite will do if all 8 of its shells hit and penetrate the citadel. Thats fair enough.

Now how much more likely is a 381mm to penetrate armour than a 356mm? A lot? A bit? Nothing at all? Assuming there is a difference in pen values, at what point does the larger caliber become a hinderence because of over penetration?

We know the max damage with a citadel hit, but whats the average damage for a normal pen hit? If its 1k per shell for the fuso and 1.5k for the warspite then they'll actually do the same on average, since 12x 1k = 12k and 8x 1.5k = 12k (these numbers are made up to illustrate a point, i have no idea of actual values)

 

Then we have dispersion. Is this fixed or scaled? The fuso is listed as having worse dispersion, but it can shoot further. What dispersion does it have at the warspites range? Does it still potentially spread out up to the listed value even at very short ranges, or is it scaled. If so, whats its dispersion  at 16.7km?

 

The next question then is how much does this affect the number of shots? I.e. if they both only hit 75% of their shots because of the dispersion (so 8 shells for the fuso, 6 for the warspite), how does this affect the average damage? Lets use the hypothetical average of 1k per shell for the fuso and 1.5k for the warspite (again, numbers plucked out of the air to show point)

100% hits = 12k for both (even)

75% hits = 8k fuso, 9k warspite (warspite ahead)

50% hits = 6k both (even again)

25% hits = 4k fuso, 3k warspite (fuso ahead).

 

Similarly the secondary guns - the fuso has more. So stats indicate its better. However they all point in different directions, so it can never use all of them unless completely surrounded. The warspite has the vast majority of hers pointing forward and can bring them all to bear. So which is better?

 

 

Untill we start getting armour models, pen values, dispersion at certain ranges, and average shell damage then the stats as given are virtually worthless.

 

I know from my own experience that I seem to do more damage with the fuso than the warspite. By a reasonable amount. What I don't know is if this is because one is better than the other, or because I use them differently - the fuso I ahoot at BB, to (almost) the exclusion of everything else. The warspite I actively fight destroyers and cruisers, so where I might spend 5 mins fighting two DD in the warspite, kill both and have 26000 damage to show for it (all their HP), I could do the same amount in one good volley from.the fuso onto another BB.

 

[southjn]

The warspie vs Fuso is misleading doesn't take into account the warspites better concealment fuso won't see you till you closed within 13km your hitting power is 16.4km an warspite has amazing turn so you aim by moving the ship thus can aim just as fast as any other battleship and it also has the tightest dispersion of any battleship so if you know how to aim you will have more shots hit the target in a volley I have had more than one occasion where I have gone up to a fuso opened fire at 16 km (unseen by the fuso and had 5+ citadel hits in the first volley literally knocking them out before they even know what hit them then you just sit back an an watch the fuso accuse you of being an Aimbot an call you all sorts of stuff in chat

[SBS]

I am really looking forward to see how the USN BB will play against the IJN. 

[Exustio]

The problem here is although we have some stats, which are very nice they don't give anywhere near enough info to judge accurately.

 

For example armour, and citadels. We have a min value and a max value. But how big is the citadel? Where is it located? Because if its underwater then its armour is far less of an issue. How much of the citadrl is covered with the min value? How much the max value? What angle is the citadel armour?

For example if you had 2 ships, and one had citadel min 30mm max 300mm, and the other had citadel min 5mm max 200mm, which one sounds better?

What if I now said the first one's citadel was the entire ship, with completely flat armour, that was 30mm all over apart from a tiny patch that was 300mm, and that the other ships' citadel was minute, underwater, completely angled, and 200mm all over apart from a tiny patch on the bottom that was 5mm.

Now which sounds better?

 

To reference WoT the KV5 has nice armour values on paper. Shame its armour is completely flat and thus easy to penetrate, and has a huge weak spot on the front. Similarly the T34 has a huge turret armour value. Which only applies to a very small portion of the turret.

 

Same for guns, and DPM values. They're all taken off the theoretical max damage. So the fuso does more damage if all 12 of its shells hit and penetrate the citadel than the warspite will do if all 8 of its shells hit and penetrate the citadel. Thats fair enough.

Now how much more likely is a 381mm to penetrate armour than a 356mm? A lot? A bit? Nothing at all? Assuming there is a difference in pen values, at what point does the larger caliber become a hinderence because of over penetration?

We know the max damage with a citadel hit, but whats the average damage for a normal pen hit? If its 1k per shell for the fuso and 1.5k for the warspite then they'll actually do the same on average, since 12x 1k = 12k and 8x 1.5k = 12k (these numbers are made up to illustrate a point, i have no idea of actual values)

 

Then we have dispersion. Is this fixed or scaled? The fuso is listed as having worse dispersion, but it can shoot further. What dispersion does it have at the warspites range? Does it still potentially spread out up to the listed value even at very short ranges, or is it scaled. If so, whats its dispersion  at 16.7km?

 

The next question then is how much does this affect the number of shots? I.e. if they both only hit 75% of their shots because of the dispersion (so 8 shells for the fuso, 6 for the warspite), how does this affect the average damage? Lets use the hypothetical average of 1k per shell for the fuso and 1.5k for the warspite (again, numbers plucked out of the air to show point)

100% hits = 12k for both (even)

75% hits = 8k fuso, 9k warspite (warspite ahead)

50% hits = 6k both (even again)

25% hits = 4k fuso, 3k warspite (fuso ahead).

 

Similarly the secondary guns - the fuso has more. So stats indicate its better. However they all point in different directions, so it can never use all of them unless completely surrounded. The warspite has the vast majority of hers pointing forward and can bring them all to bear. So which is better?

 

 

Untill we start getting armour models, pen values, dispersion at certain ranges, and average shell damage then the stats as given are virtually worthless.

 

I know from my own experience that I seem to do more damage with the fuso than the warspite. By a reasonable amount. What I don't know is if this is because one is better than the other, or because I use them differently - the fuso I ahoot at BB, to (almost) the exclusion of everything else. The warspite I actively fight destroyers and cruisers, so where I might spend 5 mins fighting two DD in the warspite, kill both and have 26000 damage to show for it (all their HP), I could do the same amount in one good volley from.the fuso onto another BB.

 

 

 

• There are hidden stats like the width of the torpedo aiming arc, placement of main armament turrets etc. Keep this in mind!

 

I think this single line that was at the beginning of all my comparison threads answers about 75% of your whole post. 

 

 Untill we start getting armour models, pen values, dispersion at certain ranges, and average shell damage then the stats as given are virtually worthless.

 

Worthless? Hardly.... 

 

Seeing u are a WoT player, u are right to wonder where the weakpoints are on a tank (or ship) so u can do the highest amount of dmg with the least amount of effort. However, this thread (and the other ones i wrote) are made with the stats that anybody can look up. What u are referring to is tankinspector (and in due time probably ship inspector) to show the armor thickness on certain parts of tanks (ships) However, this is beta, thus me sticking to values that are shown is all i can do as these, and many other values are subject to change, which brings us to the following quote: 

 

•  These stats are as of 29th of april and are subject to balance changes! 

 

next quote: 

 

 Similarly the secondary guns - the fuso has more. So stats indicate its better. However they all point in different directions, so it can never use all of them unless completely surrounded. The warspite has the vast majority of hers pointing forward and can bring them all to bear. So which is better?

 

 I will look at the broadside of the ship, as that is the angle at which a ship will produce tthe most amount of DPM.

 I counted the amount of secondary guns u have per side, cause having 9 secondary guns on a fuso is....problamatic

 

aaaand the next one 

 

Same for guns, and DPM values. They're all taken off the theoretical max damage. So the fuso does more damage if all 12 of its shells hit and penetrate the citadel than the warspite will do if all 8 of its shells hit and penetrate the citadel. Thats fair enough.

Now how much more likely is a 381mm to penetrate armour than a 356mm? A lot? A bit? Nothing at all? Assuming there is a difference in pen values, at what point does the larger caliber become a hinderence because of over penetration?

We know the max damage with a citadel hit, but whats the average damage for a normal pen hit? If its 1k per shell for the fuso and 1.5k for the warspite then they'll actually do the same on average, since 12x 1k = 12k and 8x 1.5k = 12k (these numbers are made up to illustrate a point, i have no idea of actual values)

 

These actually all lead up to the following quote, as these stats are not known yet. And if so, then by all means, share. 

•  There are hidden stats like the width of the torpedo aiming arc, placement of main armament turrets etc. Keep this in mind!

 

I am sorry im poking holes in your rant of: 

 Untill we start getting armour models, pen values, dispersion at certain ranges, and average shell damage then the stats as given are virtually worthless.

However, your statement, eventhough i agree with u that at some point these should probably be known, is wrong, and u urself prove it: 

 They're all taken off the theoretical max damage. 

 Theoreticly, a Jgpz E100 (One of the biggest guns in WoT) should decimate a Leopard 1 (One of the thinnest armored tanks in WoT) however, i had bounced those shots before. Key word: Theoretical, as u have shown with the KV5 comparison. However, we can not compare if we "estimate" damages and accuracy's, reason: RNG. And because of it, the safest way for us to be somewhat sure of what is better and what not, is to take the maximum amount of armor/dpm/knots etc. 

 

Dont get me wrong, i would love to say:"armor this, DPM that & Disperion X" Unfortunatly, thats the half truth, as there will be games u hit nothing.....and other games u hit everything (Notice that in both instances, u will tell me im wrong with my average hit %), this being RNG, thus taking the certainty over uncertainty. Thus me saying, maximum amount of dmg in AP = x, HE = y etc etc. I am not saying u will do that amount of dmg for every shell (or not)......just saying RNG might be merciful with u. 

 

Worthless? Nope, overall stats for a overall view. That was the idea. If u want to min/max, go right ahead and share. In the end, it comes down to the player, not the ship (u should know this, seeing u play WoT, Bchat 25t for instance, on paper crap, in the hands of a pro, deadly)

 

P.S. I understand where u are coming from with your point of view, there is just no way for it to be put on paper in any other way. Even in Tank inspector, it might say its 10mm thick, it will be, on occasion, able to bounce shots......thats RNG, thus leading to comparisons with maximum amounts. 

[Xevious_Red]

[quote name=

If you have no access to the other factors, then viewable stats are obviously a way to compare, and untill we get a ship armour viewer then we won't know quite what their citadels are like.

 

However, some people take the written stats as gospel truth and will ignore all other factors.

[Exustio]

 

Realise that it looks like I was attacking your initial post - wasn't my intention.

Actually wrote that all to combat the assumption that people seem to have that the viewable stats are the be all and end all - see the "warspite is worse all round" style comments. 

If you have no access to the other factors, then viewable stats are obviously a way to compare, and untill we get a ship armour viewer then we won't know quite what their citadels are like.

 

However, some people take the written stats as gospel truth and will ignore all other factors.

 

Aye, i agree. Too bad there are quite a few of them

[kamuka]

The next question then is how much does this affect the number of shots? I.e. if they both only hit 75% of their shots because of the dispersion (so 8 shells for the fuso, 6 for the warspite), how does this affect the average damage? Lets use the hypothetical average of 1k per shell for the fuso and 1.5k for the warspite (again, numbers plucked out of the air to show point)

100% hits = 12k for both (even)

75% hits = 8k fuso, 9k warspite (warspite ahead)

50% hits = 6k both (even again)

25% hits = 4k fuso, 3k warspite (fuso ahead).

 

That math fail...

 

Obviously if both did the same damage at 100% hitrate, they'd do the same damage at any hitrate, as that's how multiplication works.

For your example the fuso would get 3 hits for 3k dmg at a .25 hitrate and 9 hit for 9k dmg at a .75 hitrate,

[Xevious_Red]

 

That math fail...

 

Obviously if both did the same damage at 100% hitrate, they'd do the same damage at any hitrate, as that's how multiplication works.

For your example the fuso would get 3 hits for 3k dmg at a .25 hitrate and 9 hit for 9k dmg at a .75 hitrate,

That is indeed massive math fail - what I get for typing when tired. For some reason I'd made 75% of 12 to be 8 instead of 9, and apparantly descided that 25% of 12 was 4

[kamuka]

That is indeed massive math fail - what I get for typing when tired. For some reason I'd made 75% of 12 to be 8 instead of 9, and apparantly descided that 25% of 12 was 4

 

Happens to the best.

 

Back when I started studying math, the prof went "half of the mistakes in exams are unneccesary mistakes with fractional arithmetics". He then proceded to make a mistake while calculating something like 1/3+3/5.

[Unintentional_submarine]

Now I don't really have an opinion on the Warspite as I don't have it and haven't played in it, but I have played against it. And being a CV-BB player I have yet to be surprised even once by a Warspite suddenly appearing either far inside my BB's range, or coming up behind or something like that. And in my CVs it is even less of an issue and I spot it easily for my team, provided it actually tries to go for teamplay over solo. Solo Warspites have been able to sneak around a few times. But otherwise I haven't seen any situation where the greater concealment rating has had a worthwhile positive effect for the Warspite.

I have however had great enjoyment of finding them trying to push hard down the middle to get close fast. Those lanes... Even a Warspite can't turn out of a TB attack if it is confined. Admittedly I have been trounced by a duo of Warspites that punched through on one flank, but that wasn't a case of me being unaware of them.

 

So my experience is that in the hands of really good and coordinated players they tend to perform even better than the other BBs (in their hands), but when a random Joe has it, it is a terrible ship that tends to get sunk a lot faster than other BBs.

[Exustio]

Hello lads, 

 

Sorry for the late update on this thread, was moving house. However i have updated the post with bold lettering being changes, green being an upgrade from previous stats and red(ish) a downgrade. 

 

A overview of changes for the Battleship line with patch 3.1. 

• Across the board HE is buffed and AP is nerfed. 
• Mobility buffs for almost all IJN Battlehips!
• Ofcourse, the brand new USN Battleships!

 

Comments: 

• Seems like the USN Battleships are the bruisers of the bunch, with lower range, but higher mobility!
• Overall, this class of ship is quite balanced, i have not seen any over the top imbalances (This doesnt mean tweaking isnt needed) 
• I do think AA on the IJN should be buffed slightly, granted USN ships should have higher AA as a result of kamikaze fighters, nevertheless, the differences sometimes are very high. 

 

Hope this will help u guys out, and as always, if i made a mistake somehwere, poke me, and ill change it

 

Exustio

[Exustio]

Hello ladies and gents, 

 

Once again, an update for the Battleship comparisons. Took me a while, as i havnt been updating this since 3.1 .... (sorry ) Nevertheless, here are the changes.

• HE nerf and buffs, strangely enough. This probably in conjunction with their slow reload times. 
• The speed nerfs/buffs are within 1 knot of eachother. Meaning a buff of 16.6 knots means it used to be 16 knots. 
• Americans got a massive overhaul on their AA capabilities, so much so, i decided not to color any of it, otherwise almost everything on the American side would be green (AA wise ofc)
• Will need help with a few premium ships i do not posses, the Warspite and the new Ishizuchi. 
• The Turn radius nerf is a left over from post 3.1, where the BB's were overbuffed and right after nerfed. 

 

Hope this will help u guys out, and as always, if i made a mistake somehwere, poke me, and ill change it

 

Happy Sinking

 

Exustio