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Steering mod 2.....

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Or Propulsion modification, what is the best one to use on all BB's?

 

So many times when creeping round an island, I find I cannot slow down and reverse if confronted by multiple, more manoeuvrable enemies.

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7 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

Or Propulsion modification, what is the best one to use on all BB's?

 

So many times when creeping round an island, I find I cannot slow down and reverse if confronted by multiple, more manoeuvrable enemies.

On BB you would want DamaCon mod2 for fire/flood reduction. Steering mod is less effective than it looks like, simply because "rudder shift time" stated in port is time needed from maximum to maximum position, not from neutral to maximum. Thus, its actual improvement is less than port stats would imply.

 

For maneuverability you would be better of with Propulsion on pretty much anything with possible exception being cruisers and BBs with Engine Boost, which acts as temporary Prop mod2. Thus you can stack rudder shift upgrades on FR cruisers for some open water shenanigans.

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18 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

Or Propulsion modification, what is the best one to use on all BB's?

I wouldn't use propulsion mod on BB. I have the feeling it is for DDs.

Try to do a bit of thinking here in what concerns acceleration and how the mod affects a BB vs a DD.

 

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1 minute ago, Saltface said:

I wouldn't use propulsion mod on BB. I have the feeling it is for DDs.

Try to do a bit of thinking here in what concerns acceleration and how the mod affects a BB vs a DD.

 

Propulsion mod 2 works just fine for BBs, especially engine output spike it delivers when accelerating from standstill. Same with cruisers. And DDs.

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Personally I use Steering Mod 2 mostly in Cruisers (helps to better doge those always-threatening citadels from BB's) and in those few DD's which have particularly poor turning characteristics (like Akitsuki, for example). Don't see any use for it in BB's tho. Better just take improved Damage Con. BB's will always be big and clumsy targets and get hit a lot whatever you do, so dodging anything is usually  not amongst one of your most viable options in any situatuon (ok sometimes it might work but you can't really count on it). Probably better to place your bets on improved survivability instead.:cap_old:

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21 minutes ago, Saltface said:

I wouldn't use propulsion mod on BB. I have the feeling it is for DDs.

Try to do a bit of thinking here in what concerns acceleration and how the mod affects a BB vs a DD.

 

I would not say that per se, i think almost all of my bbs run that mod, especially the 3 turret ships with two front guns.

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1 hour ago, NoobySkooby said:

Or Propulsion modification, what is the best one to use on all BB's?

 

So many times when creeping round an island, I find I cannot slow down and reverse if confronted by multiple, more manoeuvrable enemies.

Gneis and Tirpitz I use SM2 (I will on Scharn too if I ever buy her).
The reason, in case it isn't self-evident, is to bring my torpedo tubes into position quickly, and get my bum tucked back in to a safe angle quickly too.
Aside from that, I run survivability.  I only really find acceleration control valuable on ships with a smokescreen I don't want to over-shoot (so RN cruisers, notably).

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5 minutes ago, Ace42X said:

I only really find acceleration control valuable on ships with a smokescreen I don't want to over-shoot (so RN cruisers, notably).

Except tea cruisers can't mount it:Smile_smile:

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22 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Except tea cruisers can't mount it:Smile_smile:

Hah, you're totally right, derp!  So just DDs then.  I think I run improved consumable mods on my Perth (yes, CW not RN), and it's been a while since I outfitted my Emerald, so I probably went same way for that too?  Can't remember what the tier / slot limitations are on that either.

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1 hour ago, Panocek said:

Propulsion mod 2 works just fine for BBs, especially engine output spike it delivers when accelerating from standstill. Same with cruisers. And DDs.

1 hour ago, The_Reichtangle said:

I would not say that per se, i think almost all of my bbs run that mod, especially the 3 turret ships with two front guns.

 

Sourcehttps://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Upgrades

 

"Research seems to show that the specific effects are as follows:


-50% to time for reaching full power. This is the time needed to "spool" the engines to full power in the direction the ship is traveling, and thus achieve maximum acceleration away from 0 knots. In other words, it increases the second derivative of speed (until the engines reach full power). It will not decrease the time it takes to reverse the engines to decelerate towards 0 knots. This effect is applied at all speeds.
Increases engine power when the ship starts moving. This increases the ship's acceleration away from 0 knots when between -6 and 6 knots displayed speed. In other words, it increases the first derivative of speed (within this speed band). It does not improve the ship's deceleration towards 0 knots."

 

Sourcehttps://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/87597-propulsion-mod-2-precise-effects/?hl=propulsion&fromsearch=1

 

(TL:DR from above thread - Post #8)

 

"So the effects are:

  • Increased acceleration from 0 kts to 6 kts
  • Increased acceleration from 0 kts to -6 kts
  • No other effect whatsoever.
  • No deceleration effect (slowing down) whatsoever."

 

My question is:

How many times your BB is stationary? The effect of Prop Mod is clearly on accelerating from 0 Kts to 6 Kts either forward of aft. It doesn't help you decelerate to avoid a torpedo spread. Anyone in a smoke can benefit from this mod. But a BB?

 

Lets go to steering mod now

 

A very good work has been done by LWM 

Sourcehttps://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/151982-steering-gears-mod-2-vs-damage-control-system-mod-2-for-bbs/

 

(TL:DR I quote from LWM Post #27 & Post #29)

 

"The edge provided by SGM2 + SGM3 does help though not dramatically.  However, SGM2 on its own does not provide enough to be worth it based upon the data I've collected, especially for destroyers and battleships where there are much better options available."

 

"As best as I can ascertain, rudder shift makes handling more precise.  You're less likely to over-steer or under-steer with a rudder shift mod."

 

Saltface's opinion 

 

The alternative here is Damage Control Mod 2.

I agree with @RAHJAILARI

I would pick this one for BBs.

 

But what suits one doesn't suit all.

 

Regards

Saltface

 


 

 

Edited by Saltface
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4 minutes ago, Saltface said:

My question is:

How many times your BB is stationary? The effect of Prop Mod is clearly on accelerating from 0 Kts to 6 Kts either forward of aft. It doesn't help you decelerate to avoid a torpedo spread. Anyone in a smoke can benefit from this mod. But a BB?

With Prop Mod you can juke shots by bouncing forward/backward. Same with Henri IV, or any other ship with Engine Boost.

 

Also acceleration when going half speed to full speed increases.

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1 hour ago, Panocek said:

On BB you would want DamaCon mod2 for fire/flood reduction. Steering mod is less effective than it looks like, simply because "rudder shift time" stated in port is time needed from maximum to maximum position, not from neutral to maximum. Thus, its actual improvement is less than port stats would imply.

 

For maneuverability you would be better of with Propulsion on pretty much anything with possible exception being cruisers and BBs with Engine Boost, which acts as temporary Prop mod2. Thus you can stack rudder shift upgrades on FR cruisers for some open water shenanigans.

I think more important as to why steering mod is less useful than one might think is that on most BBs, either they are slow as hell or their turning circle limits their turning rate far more than rudder shift does, either way meaning that rudder shift will hardly get you of harms way with speedy dodges.

 

Also, RN cruisers are better off with steering gears... as they cannot mount prop mod.

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1 minute ago, Panocek said:

Henri IV

LOL it is a cruiser.

 

I argue about Battleships. I will agree if you go aft and forward a lot it could be useful. Any ship that utilizes terrain for cover and pops out, takes a shot and hides back again, might find use for it. When I play DD and shoot from smoke, yes it can be useful but I avoid it. I prefer torpedo boats so... I m on the run.

 

Anyway, I just gave my opinion and some food for thought.

 

Regards

Saltface

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19 hours ago, Saltface said:

But what suits one doesn't suit all.

Good advice here mate. Totally agree, before choosing a mod, one should look at each ship and its characteristics individually, also consider one's own playstyle generally and then pick those Module, consumable and Commander skills that best support  the way one intends to use the ship. Of course, this is not always obvious, something that seems to be mandatory at first, may turn out to be a bit MEH later on so a little bit of experimentation may be in order to find the best fit for each ship. :cap_haloween:

 

For example, my 155mm DD-hunter-specced Mogami. I originally had the Concealment mod mounted into it so i could get a bit closer unnoticed. But later on came to the conclusion that this was in fact superfluous, as I always go in to support our own DD and so have a spotter in front already and in any case an enemy DD would outspot me in any 1-on-1 engagement so I switched it into the Target Acquisition system mod instead. This was due to the fact that in knife-fights near a cap zone I am far more threatened by incoming torps and after having already fired one salvo, already spotted all the way up to 15km so I figured that concealment mod would not help me any in that situation + seeing and dodging those pesky torps would be much more useful in fact. I have not regretted the trade (never fear -  I still have CE for my Commander tho). :cap_old:

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7 minutes ago, Saltface said:

LOL it is a cruiser.

Have you tried to handle one? Because sure as hell it doesn't handle like a cruiser, unless you tack double rudder on it and have Engine Boost active.

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1 minute ago, Panocek said:

Have you tried to handle one? Because sure as hell it doesn't handle like a cruiser, unless you tack double rudder on it and have Engine Boost active.

Still better than Stalingrad or yoshino, which are "cruisers".

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Just now, Cagliostro_chan said:

Still better than Stalingrad or yoshino, which are "cruisers".

Prop modded Yoshie have actually decent handling, for an iceberg that is:cap_hmm: Same with Camrade Moskva. And all of them stretch definition of cruiser with guns bigger than 8"

 

I wonder if 1.3km surface detection is worth trading for SGM3, its not like you want to be at close to mid ranges with her anyway.

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28 minutes ago, Saltface said:

My question is:

How many times your BB is stationary? The effect of Prop Mod is clearly on accelerating from 0 Kts to 6 Kts either forward of aft. It doesn't help you decelerate to avoid a torpedo spread. Anyone in a smoke can benefit from this mod. But a BB?

 Lots of BBs bowcamping.... going FWD/RWD a lot. 

 

I took the steering mod for Conqkek... use that as a battlecruiser TBH.

Close (12.3 concealment, that's how) and shooting AP mostly. 

Yeah I'm weird. 

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13 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Prop modded Yoshie have actually decent handling, for an iceberg that is:cap_hmm: Same with Camrade Moskva. And all of them stretch definition of cruiser with guns bigger than 8"

 

I wonder if 1.3km surface detection is worth trading for SGM3, its not like you want to be at close to mid ranges with her anyway.

I don't take it, because for dodging at 20 km it's fine and most shells that hit me when dodging are strays. I prefer having the concealment, because

  • Unspotted Yoshinos don't get shot at
  • Unspotted Yoshinos can move around more freely. High visibility Yoshino would start feel Stalingrad syndrome of being often unable to disengage.
  • I prefer not to get vastly outspotted by Brit BBs, Roma, NC et al.
  • Having cruiser-like concealment is nice for any cruiser vs cruiser fights, where Yoshino is likely one of the better supercruisers against people who don't broadside.

Though Yoshino AP can be absolutely devastating to cruisers who don't angle at short to mid ranges. As stated in my other topic, the ship does have cruiser accuracy at 7 km and is about 14 m worse in horizontal dispersion at 15 km.

Spoiler

1629387270_YoshinoAP.thumb.png.e5deb2515035ef4762f33d96d17eec03.png

Two salvos, 5 cits. 13-16 km.

 

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9 minutes ago, Cagliostro_chan said:
  • Unspotted Yoshinos don't get shot at
  • Unspotted Yoshinos can move around more freely. High visibility Yoshino would start feel Stalingrad syndrome of being often unable to disengage.
  • I prefer not to get vastly outspotted by Brit BBs, Roma, NC et al.
  • Having cruiser-like concealment is nice for any cruiser vs cruiser fights, where Yoshino is likely one of the better supercruisers against people who don't broadside.

Which applies to pretty much every ship in game. Though HIV can take alternate approach with double rudder simply because of her overinflated Engine Boost, giving not-so temporary Propulsion mod2 effect as well cranking top speed up to 44kts because why not. And you don't need 305mm guns to citadel cruisers, when "regular" 203mm is more than sufficient against cruiser citadel plating at most combat ranges

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Propulsion  module is for DDs that have a good enough turning rate. Steering module is for cruisers (and DDs which turn poorly). Acceleration and steering on a BB are the worst in all classes, so reducing something bad with only 20% does not make it good. 

The only case where steering mode on a BB is good is on Vanguard, which has a cruiser turning rate, and bad shooting angles for its guns combined with bad armor. 

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Personally I use steering 2 on everything, and have no intention of changing it.

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9 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Which applies to pretty much every ship in game. Though HIV can take alternate approach with double rudder simply because of her overinflated Engine Boost, giving not-so temporary Propulsion mod2 effect as well cranking top speed up to 44kts because why not. And you don't need 305mm guns to citadel cruisers, when "regular" 203mm is more than sufficient against cruiser citadel plating at most combat ranges

305s theoretically can do it further out at more lenient angles (as long as no autobounce). I say theoretically, because you first need to hit things. Practically, it also matters against some of the better protected cruisers, as for example a Zao would struggle to citadel a Yoshino at 15 km, due to having an inclined 178 mm belt behind 30 mm plating. Yoshino meanwhile doesn't care as much. The only issue Yoshino has is that if targets angle, it bounces off and for normal pens, HE is a better option most of the time.

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3 hours ago, Panocek said:

Propulsion mod 2 works just fine for BBs, especially engine output spike it delivers when accelerating from standstill. Same with cruisers. And DDs.

 

Why would you be at a standstill in a BB in the middle of a battle? They are easy enough targets even without that. I prolly think it's more likely useful for smoke warriors such as DD's and some cruisers. The smart players will make use of it and get out of time. The less smart ones don't need it because they stay there long enough for your torpedoes to hit them. :Smile_trollface:

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12 hours ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

Why would you be at a standstill in a BB in the middle of a battle? They are easy enough targets even without that. I prolly think it's more likely useful for smoke warriors such as DD's and some cruisers. The smart players will make use of it and get out of time. The less smart ones don't need it because they stay there long enough for your torpedoes to hit them. :Smile_trollface:

My biggest problem is when coming around an island, sometimes you just need to hit reverse, steering mod is of no use then, unless you go for the open water jousting, which then usually provokes in game chat salt, because some folk don't realise that not all BB's have cruiser like manoeuvrability. and are therefore annoyed you are not right up there with them.

 

But a mod is coming in to disable chat if you wish from the setting, long, long overdue.

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