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Sunleader

Suggestion for Endgame Content and Time Sink.

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In Light of Wargaming feeling the Need to Create a Reason for People to Grind more.

I have a Suggestion!

 

Create an Uptier System for Ships.

Many Ships which People Love are only set to their Tier by Mandatory Restrictions like HP and Firing Range and Bow/Stern Armor.


So Instead of Forcing People to Regrind an entire Line of Ships in order to get the Better Ship which then messes up Balance because a Legacy 3 Upgraded Ship in T7 Suddenly got Stats like a T8 Ship and Abuses T5s


Lets do this.

When a Player has Reached T10 in a Line.

He gets the Option to Uptier the lower Tier Ships.

If he Chooses to Uptier a Ship. He will Activate a Project for Uptiering this Ship.

This Project will Start a List of Personal Missions which Require him to Earn a Set Number of Base Exp with each of the Lower Tier Ships of this Line.

(Which also means that the lower Tier the Ship you want to Uptier. The less Missions you need)

Each of these Missions will then upon Completion Reward some progress to the Uptier Project.

Alternatively the Uptier Project can also be Progressed by Free Exp.


When the Project is Finished.

A New Hull Module will be Available for Purchase on the Ship.

This Hull will Upgrade the Ships Stats to the level of the next Tier.

A T8 Cruiser Upgraded to Tier 9 will get additional Bow Armor, HP and Firing Range for example.

 

Example.

I have Reached the Hindenburg in the German Cruiser Line.

Now I like the Hipper however.

So I start the Uptier Project for Admiral Hipper.

So now I get a Bunch of Missions to Play the German Cruisers from Tier 4 to Tier 7.

I got 500k Free Exp. So I just Unlock it with Free Exp Instead.

Now I get a New Hull Module for Admiral Hipper which Costs about as much as a T9 Cruiser.


The Hull Module will make Admiral Hipper a T9 Ship.

Firing Range, AA and Hull HP are Upgraded to the level of the Roon.

And the Ship also gets the Tier 9 Enhancement Slot that the Roon has as well.


Which means you now have a Tier 9 Admiral Hipper.


Depending on the Ships Setup this could be done between 1 and 3 Times.

 

This would Create alot of new Options and also make other Ships more Interesting.

It would Create an Extra Money and Exp Sink.

It would Increase Variety in Battles.

It would allow Players to use their Best liked Ships in Higher Tiers.

And it would not result in this being Mandatory because you dont get any Super Big Advantage.


But most of all.

It would not Exclude Casual Players like me by making this a Boring REPEAT Grind that would take me 6 Months and which I thus would Never in Hell do

 

 

 

I for my Part would Love a Tier 9 Prinz Eugen.

And if my Tirpitz got an Accuracy Buff and Tier 10 HP you can take Bets I will be Uptiering it.

(I end up in T10 constantly anyways)

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As i understand; you are suggesting kind a modernization's like real life navy's does to old ships. It is more fair than the OP paper ships which never exist

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That sounds like an intrinsically bad idea. Most high tier cruisers have good armor as they have poor maneuverability which the armor compensates for. Whilst this kind of system isn't as inherently insane as what Weegee came up with, it's still fundamentally causing issues in that it just introduces an exponential number of moving elements that need balancing.

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1 minute ago, TCG_OliveBranch said:

As i understand; you are suggesting kind a modernization's like real life navy's does to old ships. It is more fair than the OP paper ships which never exist

 

In many cases its not even needed.

Take Admiral Hipper vs Roon for example.

 

Roon has 1 Gun more in the Main Battery.

But Hipper would have 4 Guns when going Headon.

And Roon has a few 15cm Secondaries.

Hipper has more Torpedoes instead.

 

So the only Reason Roon is T9 and Hipper is T8.

Is because Wargaming decided so.

 

HP.

AA Power.

Firing Range.

Minimum Armor.

 

All these Values are from the Start Unhistorical and decided based on Tier Level.

 

So you could Switch these Values and Make Roon a T8 while Hipper becomes a T9 without any Consequence.

 

 

8 minutes ago, dasCKD said:

That sounds like an intrinsically bad idea. Most high tier cruisers have good armor as they have poor maneuverability which the armor compensates for. Whilst this kind of system isn't as inherently insane as what Weegee came up with, it's still fundamentally causing issues in that it just introduces an exponential number of moving elements that need balancing.

 

Armor is mostly Unhistorical and decided by WG Based on Tier level.

 

So Armor can easily be Increased when the Ship is Uptiered.

Or in case of the Uptiered Ship being more Maneuverable. This could simply be kept as it would simply be a different Playstyle.

 

 

5 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

Could you imagine a Nelson at tier 8? Give it a spotter plane and imaginary secondaries like the Tirpitz, and yes it might work,  lol

 

Doesnt even need the Secondaries to be Honest.

Nelson is pretty Big BB.

3x3 406mm Guns.

If it got T8 BB HP and T8 Firing Range.

You would have a Bonafide T8 BB there.

 

Give it a Reload Buff and T9 HP as well as T9 Firing Range and you could even put it at T9 with these Guns.

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1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

 

In many cases its not even needed.

Take Admiral Hipper vs Roon for example.

 

Roon has 1 Gun more in the Main Battery.

But Hipper would have 4 Guns when going Headon.

And Roon has a few 15cm Secondaries.

Hipper has more Torpedoes instead.

 

So the only Reason Roon is T9 and Hipper is T8.

Is because Wargaming decided so.

 

HP.

AA Power.

Firing Range.

Minimum Armor.

 

All these Values are from the Start Unhistorical and decided based on Tier Level.

 

So you could Switch these Values and Make Roon a T8 while Hipper becomes a T9 without any Consequence.

 

 

 

Armor is mostly Unhistorical and decided by WG Based on Tier level.

 

So Armor can easily be Increased when the Ship is Uptiered.

Or in case of the Uptiered Ship being more Maneuverable. This could simply be kept as it would simply be a different Playstyle.

 

 

 

Doesnt even need the Secondaries to be Honest.

Nelson is pretty Big BB.

3x3 406mm Guns.

If it got T8 BB HP and T8 Firing Range.

You would have a Bonafide T8 BB there.

 

Give it a Reload Buff and T9 HP as well as T9 Firing Range and you could even put it at T9 with these Guns.

Ok fair point on the secondaries, spotter lane would be most useful,i would play it more if we were not always up tiered in the damn thing, gong towars its t8 stablemate the lenin, which I do like, it would be nice on that to have the option for a spotter too, but not to be, weird thing is with that ship though it has just a smidgen more range than the Vlad, odd that.

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8 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

In many cases its not even needed.

Take Admiral Hipper vs Roon for example.

 

Roon has 1 Gun more in the Main Battery.

But Hipper would have 4 Guns when going Headon.

And Roon has a few 15cm Secondaries.

Hipper has more Torpedoes instead.

 

So the only Reason Roon is T9 and Hipper is T8.

Is because Wargaming decided so.

She's also a ship that is of a more modern design, utilizing more modern shells that never entered service. The Roon is also, once more, a bigger ship.

8 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

HP.

AA Power.

Firing Range.

Minimum Armor.

 

All these Values are from the Start Unhistorical and decided based on Tier Level.

Perhaps, but I see little point in going through all this trouble. The USN Saint Louis can certainly be made to function at tier X by buffing the statistics, but what would be the point. Hit points is calculated by a combination of ship tier and ship estimate tonnage, which is why the Minotaur has less health than the Neptune. The performance of each separate AA gun might be arbitrary, but AA performance within the context of the game certainly isn't. An AA gun in this game has a DPS value and range that essentially doesn't vary across ships. An uptiered Hipper would therefore either require Weegee to entirely rework the Hipper's AA suite to suit the new tier or make it such that the AA guns on the Hipper arbitrarily performs better than every other identical AA gun on every other ship.

8 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

So you could Switch these Values and Make Roon a T8 while Hipper becomes a T9 without any Consequence.

No you can't. A tier 9 Hipper is, for all intents and purposes, an entirely new ship. This means that she will need her separate round of testing, balancing, and reworking before she can be fitted to the new tier. This will have to happen to EVERY SINGLE ship that this system applies to.

16 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Armor is mostly Unhistorical and decided by WG Based on Tier level.

 

So Armor can easily be Increased when the Ship is Uptiered.

No it certainly can't. A ship with identical health pool, near-identical armor, identical AA, but a better (smaller) hull size is a strict competitive advantage. If I took a Hemelin and uptiered her to tier X and gave her the AA, armor, firing range, and HP of a tier X ship I would make a completely overpowered ship.

16 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Or in case of the Uptiered Ship being more Maneuverable. This could simply be kept as it would simply be a different Playstyle.

Maneuverability and size isn't a different playstyle, it is a strict competitive advantage. There is no fundamental difference between a ship that is identical in all respects except that it has 10% more health or a ship that is identical in all respects except it is significantly more maneuverable and harder to hit. If you want to preserve balance then the Hipper needs to take a hit in the HP, AA, firepower, firing range, armor, or SOMETHING compared to the Roon or she would just essentially be the Roon but strictly better.

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To be honest when I first heard about the training thing, I thought it was a way to buff lower tier ships to play them in higher tier matches... :/

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4 minutes ago, dasCKD said:

She's also a ship that is of a more modern design, utilizing more modern shells that never entered service. The Roon is also, once more, a bigger ship.

Perhaps, but I see little point in going through all this trouble. The USN Saint Louis can certainly be made to function at tier X by buffing the statistics, but what would be the point. Hit points is calculated by a combination of ship tier and ship estimate tonnage, which is why the Minotaur has less health than the Neptune. The performance of each separate AA gun might be arbitrary, but AA performance within the context of the game certainly isn't. An AA gun in this game has a DPS value and range that essentially doesn't vary across ships. An uptiered Hipper would therefore either require Weegee to entirely rework the Hipper's AA suite to suit the new tier or make it such that the AA guns on the Hipper arbitrarily performs better than every other identical AA gun on every other ship.

No you can't. A tier 9 Hipper is, for all intents and purposes, an entirely new ship. This means that she will need her separate round of testing, balancing, and reworking before she can be fitted to the new tier. This will have to happen to EVERY SINGLE ship that this system applies to.

No it certainly can't. A ship with identical health pool, near-identical armor, identical AA, but a better (smaller) hull size is a strict competitive advantage. If I took a Hemelin and uptiered her to tier X and gave her the AA, armor, firing range, and HP of a tier X ship I would make a completely overpowered ship.

Maneuverability and size isn't a different playstyle, it is a strict competitive advantage. There is no fundamental difference between a ship that is identical in all respects except that it has 10% more health or a ship that is identical in all respects except it is significantly more maneuverable and harder to hit. If you want to preserve balance then the Hipper needs to take a hit in the HP, AA, firepower, firing range, armor, or SOMETHING compared to the Roon or she would just essentially be the Roon but strictly better.

 

1.

Irrelevant.

Because Damage Output is the same.

And Penetration as well as Range is set by WG Based on Tier not by Historical Values.

 

2.

Mate...

AA is decided by WG.

Its not Historical.

Admiral Hipper already has a ton of small extra Guns that dont exist.

WG does not change Performance of the Specific AA Gun.

It simply adds or removes a number of Fantasy Guns.

 

3.

And Yes of course this would Require some Balancing.

But compared to what WG is Planning to do.

The Effect of this on Balancing is laughable.

 

4.

A T10 with 4x128mm Guns that wont Hurt anybody.

It would be a DD with a Citadel and without Smoke or Stealth....

So yeah. Very OP.

Also I said 1-3 Tiers.

Not 9 Tiers.....

 

5.

The Joke is you Prove my Point and dont even Realize it....

Mate. I am listing Values that CAN be changed in order to Uptier a Ship.

NOT that you HAVE to CHANGE ALL VALUES in this Manner.

If Hipper is Faster and Smaller for example it wont get better Armor.

 

But thing is.

YOU CAN Balance this and Uptier Ships like this.

Unlike WGs Plan which will just create an actual Strictly Better Variant of the same Ship that is not Uptiered.

 

And Balancing this is barely a Problem.

Because a Tier 8 for Example is already part of T10 Battles.

So the Adjustments can be pretty Small.

 

As my Example.

Hipper I would only Increase HP to T9 Levels.

Would get a few extra 2cm Guns which just like more than half of the C-Hull 2cm Guns never existed lol.

And would get the Range of the Roon.

 

Firepower would be Slightly below the Roon.

Survivability would likely be a bit Better.

But Overall the Change would be Pretty Minor.

 

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5 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Mate...

AA is decided by WG.

Its not Historical.

Admiral Hipper already has a ton of small extra Guns that dont exist.

WG does not change Performance of the Specific AA Gun.

It simply adds or removes a number of Fantasy Guns.

Exactly like reality, then. The only compromise they have to make for that (and they do this, with ships like Monaghan) is that some ships designs were so tight that they had to lose main battery guns for additional AA guns. 

 

With regards to an extended end game and Naval Training....

 

There are lots of games which have a "New Game" system where, on completing the original game, you can take your maxed-out character and keep on playing it. But they don't allow you to keep on playing that character in the original game world.... it would be a re-rerolled world with enhanced difficulty. That's not in WG's proposal for NTA, and that's the deal-breaker.... you can't allow people to stack the bonuses of enhanced ships with the bonuses of 19pt captains or, worse, captains with special skills, and then put them back in standard randoms against inexperienced (or bad!) players in stock ships. 

 

WG can't keep on messing up the Random game because of new marketing data driven wheezes and expect the game to be fun to play. We've already seen what happens with this sort of thinking - oh, we need an all action class -  and who thinks the CV rework has been a success? It has broken all manner of things and isn't anywhere near finished.

 

They're also piling too many ideas into Tier X - post war ships, especially, are going to be massively problematic if that's all that they can think of to add as new lines.

 

NTA really needs to come along with new content which treats ship eras and theatres of war as individual game modes, free of the need to balance an upward grind to Tier X, so people can unlock WW1 Dreadnoughts and play them as seriously as they do Tier X Battleships, instead of them being a bit of a joke. In those modes you can have enhanced upgrades or whatever you like because the main Random game is unaffected; players get to pick what they want to play, and would go into matches understanding how things were going to be. Hence much less grumbling.

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How about this for a change, let us not try to find solutions to something that WG never should have tried in the first place.

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7 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Armor is mostly Unhistorical and decided by WG Based on Tier level.

Actual armor platings are surprisingly accurate, its just WG who considered constructional steel of bow/stern to be of any value. If you were to remove that, you would turn ships into armored shoebox, pretty much negating angling outside of minimizing target profile

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1 hour ago, ollonborre said:

How about this for a change, let us not try to find solutions to something that WG never should have tried in the first place.

The end game issue is still there, still real, and the idea of getting to Tier X and then unlocking something new by playing Tier X is a good one. It's just that WG didn't give their opening proposal for NTC enough thought, and that's a hallmark of their recent work. Too many disconnected ideas, too much haste, not enough of a master plan. 

 

I would like them to write more scenarios and operations for mid Tier ships, take the WW1 era more seriously rather than seeing 1944 as the game pinnacle, provide more campaigns for special captains and special upgrades for more ships (rather than grinding for currency) and make achieving Tier X open the possibility of grinding special ships: sisters of ships in the Tech Tree line with different properties, the odd duck ships of navies, things that don't form a whole line.... There's plenty of room for this sort of thing. 

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7 hours ago, Sunleader said:

1.

Irrelevant.

Because Damage Output is the same.

And Penetration as well as Range is set by WG Based on Tier not by Historical Values.

 

2.

Mate...

AA is decided by WG.

Its not Historical.

Admiral Hipper already has a ton of small extra Guns that dont exist.

WG does not change Performance of the Specific AA Gun.

It simply adds or removes a number of Fantasy Guns.

Which means that Wargaming would need to get their modelling team to essentially create two more hulls for most silver ships.

7 hours ago, Sunleader said:

3.

And Yes of course this would Require some Balancing.

But compared to what WG is Planning to do.

The Effect of this on Balancing is laughable.

When Weegee is suggesting that we build a house out of nitroglycerin and matchsticks, suggesting we build it out of gasoline and pressed wood is not the solution. 'It is better' is really not an argument when there really is no need for the game to receive either. 

7 hours ago, Sunleader said:

4.

A T10 with 4x128mm Guns that wont Hurt anybody.

It would be a DD with a Citadel and without Smoke or Stealth....

So yeah. Very OP.

You suggested that the firepower would be raised to match tier X levels which means, essentially, that the Hemelin would become a Colbert.

7 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Also I said 1-3 Tiers.

Not 9 Tiers.....

It is also a rhetoric device to show the base problems with the idea.

7 hours ago, Sunleader said:

5.

The Joke is you Prove my Point and dont even Realize it....

Mate. I am listing Values that CAN be changed in order to Uptier a Ship.

NOT that you HAVE to CHANGE ALL VALUES in this Manner.

If Hipper is Faster and Smaller for example it wont get better Armor.

In which case you communicated poorly when you stated that you wanted to take the Hipper, and raise, and I quote:

8 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Firing Range, AA and Hull HP are Upgraded to the level of the Roon.

7 hours ago, Sunleader said:

But thing is.

YOU CAN Balance this and Uptier Ships like this.

Unlike WGs Plan which will just create an actual Strictly Better Variant of the same Ship that is not Uptiered.

 

And Balancing this is barely a Problem.

Because a Tier 8 for Example is already part of T10 Battles.

So the Adjustments can be pretty Small.

You COULD balance it, but WHY would you WANT to balance it? There are also no points for coming with an idea less marginally awful that Weegee's plan to essentially burn their servers to the ground. It's also utterly insane to suggest that the adjustments designed to be small. Tier VIII ships might meet tier Xs, but then tier V ships also meet tier VIIs and I don't think anyone would argue that, say, a Baltimore is a match for a Des Moines just because we bump her armor and HP a bit.

7 hours ago, Sunleader said:

As my Example.

Hipper I would only Increase HP to T9 Levels.

Would get a few extra 2cm Guns which just like more than half of the C-Hull 2cm Guns never existed lol.

And would get the Range of the Roon.

 

Firepower would be Slightly below the Roon.

Survivability would likely be a bit Better.

But Overall the Change would be Pretty Minor.

But the amount of work needed to implement this change would be colossal. You stated no limits for which ships can be upgraded to a higher tier which means that with one lone change, you are effectively tripling the number of silver ships within the game. You are effectively taking this game, three or four years in the making, and tippling the work of:

  • The programming team who needs to create new scripts and names for the new ship variants to implement within the game.
  • The art team who needs to remodel every single silver ship potentially up to 3 more times. This also is discounting the render load on the computers to transfer the program data into usable rigs.
  • The debuggers who can make sure that the meshes for what are entirely new ships aren't clipping.
  • The balancing team who needs to decide what changes need to be made to make sure that the ships fit each specific tier.

And why? So they can create a niche product that is interesting to a tiny part of the population base. For all the obvious problems with the NTC, I can almost guarantee that the tiny parts of the population that sticks with the game after the change goes live will almost certainly be using it. If you're essentially going to balance a Hipper for tier 9, then what's the point of doing all that grind when the Roon can be acquired in the first pass of the grind? She's not a novel ship with novel mechanics, she's a slightly different German cruiser. For such a massive amount of investment poured into this undertaking that would handily eclipse the release of literally every single ship line since the start of the game combined, how many people do you think would actually invest their time in this inane exercise?

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4 hours ago, Panocek said:

Actual armor platings are surprisingly accurate, its just WG who considered constructional steel of bow/stern to be of any value. If you were to remove that, you would turn ships into armored shoebox, pretty much negating angling outside of minimizing target profile

 

I dont think I know a Single Ship where Armor is Accurate.

Mostly even Belt and Turret Armor are Different.

 

 

3 hours ago, dasCKD said:

Which means that Wargaming would need to get their modelling team to essentially create two more hulls for most silver ships.

When Weegee is suggesting that we build a house out of nitroglycerin and matchsticks, suggesting we build it out of gasoline and pressed wood is not the solution. 'It is better' is really not an argument when there really is no need for the game to receive either. 

You suggested that the firepower would be raised to match tier X levels which means, essentially, that the Hemelin would become a Colbert.

It is also a rhetoric device to show the base problems with the idea.

In which case you communicated poorly when you stated that you wanted to take the Hipper, and raise, and I quote:

You COULD balance it, but WHY would you WANT to balance it? There are also no points for coming with an idea less marginally awful that Weegee's plan to essentially burn their servers to the ground. It's also utterly insane to suggest that the adjustments designed to be small. Tier VIII ships might meet tier Xs, but then tier V ships also meet tier VIIs and I don't think anyone would argue that, say, a Baltimore is a match for a Des Moines just because we bump her armor and HP a bit.

But the amount of work needed to implement this change would be colossal. You stated no limits for which ships can be upgraded to a higher tier which means that with one lone change, you are effectively tripling the number of silver ships within the game. You are effectively taking this game, three or four years in the making, and tippling the work of:

  • The programming team who needs to create new scripts and names for the new ship variants to implement within the game.
  • The art team who needs to remodel every single silver ship potentially up to 3 more times. This also is discounting the render load on the computers to transfer the program data into usable rigs.
  • The debuggers who can make sure that the meshes for what are entirely new ships aren't clipping.
  • The balancing team who needs to decide what changes need to be made to make sure that the ships fit each specific tier.

And why? So they can create a niche product that is interesting to a tiny part of the population base. For all the obvious problems with the NTC, I can almost guarantee that the tiny parts of the population that sticks with the game after the change goes live will almost certainly be using it. If you're essentially going to balance a Hipper for tier 9, then what's the point of doing all that grind when the Roon can be acquired in the first pass of the grind? She's not a novel ship with novel mechanics, she's a slightly different German cruiser. For such a massive amount of investment poured into this undertaking that would handily eclipse the release of literally every single ship line since the start of the game combined, how many people do you think would actually invest their time in this inane exercise?

 

1.

This is not much Effort to be Honest.

In case you didnt Notice. For most Ships the Hull is not Actually Changed.

WG Simply Stuck some Additional Guns somewhere.

Partially even being as Lazy as just putting 4-5 Guns onto Bow or Stern because there is Open Space there.

 

Its the same as the Armor Changes that WG Regularily makes for Balance Adjustment.

So you 5mm Armor somewhere. Cool. But Graphic is not Changed for this.

You dont need to Model a New Hull just to Stick some Additional 2cm Guns Somewhere Mate.

 

3.

Mate no Offense.

But lets Face Reality.

The Community can turn up on its Head and WG will Still Implement this kind System.

We might have a Chance to Change their Idea of the System to Something we can Accept.

But sooner will Hell Freeze Over and become a Ski Paradies than WG abandoning the Idea entirely.

 

4.

Nope.

Maybe Read what I said.

I Said 1-3 Tiers. Not 9 Tiers.

And I listed OPTIONS of Values that can be Increased.

I never said ALL options have to Increased.

Take the Nelson Example. For the First Uptier I did not consider a Firepower Upgrade at all. I only Suggested to Increase the Range and HP.

Because Nelson with the 406mm Guns already has enough Firepower for Tier 8.

But for T9 I Suggested a Reload Buff because Nelson is Firing relative Slow and at Tier 9 would otherwise be Disadvantaged too heavily.

 

Same for the Hipper. For T9 as her Firepower is not really Different from the Roon. I did not Suggest an Reload Buff.

I also did not Suggest Armor Change for the Hipper by the way. Because it already is Capable of handling T9 with its Armor.

But on T10 Hipper would need a better Reload due to its much lower Number of Guns.

 

You just went ahead and just used ALL Values in a Ridiculous Manner.

 

5.

Yes. And now Read what you Quoted.

Firing Range, AA and Hull HP.

I on Purpose did not Increase Armor and also not Firepower.

Because these 2 Values are already Adequate for T9 on the Hipper. And thus do not need to be Raised.

Unlike what you Suggested by just Raising ALL Stats of a Ship into the Ridiculous Levels.

 

And Mate.

I actually like this Idea. Because it is actually a Wish of alot of People in the Community. To use her Favorite Ship in a Higher Tier.

And well Mate.

If you rather get NTC then be my Guest. Because if NTC comes I will be out of this Crab anyways and thus will no longer care.

 

6.

No.

The Effort for this would be Pretty much Nonexistent.

 

Creating a New Ship for the Hipper would be 2 Minutes Work for the Programmer. As he would Copy the File of the Hipper. Replace the Names with HipperT9 (File Call Names not Ingame Display Name)

 

Changing the Hull would Take ME about 15 Minutes. And I SUCK at GFX works. Because the Hull etc does not Change at all. All that Happens for the Hipper for Example. is that some of the Single 40mm AA Mounts get Replaced by the Stronger 55mm AA Mount. These are Single Graphic Dots. They can be Removed and Replaced with a few Clicks.

 

Debuggers are not Needed at all here. Because the Dimensions and Actually Modelled Hull Parts dont change. Neither do Hitboxes of AA Guns or anything that actually changes Gameplay.

 

The Balancing Team is the only one with some Work here. Because they Indeed have to make Decisions here. But thats Daily Part of their Job. Its not like doing this poses such a Big Burden on them.

 

 

And Mate. The Idea is to Create Something that is NOT Mandatory. But gives People something to do and a Reason for People to Play Lower Tiers etc.

Its a Time and Ressource Sink.

But there has to be some Incentive otherwise nobody will do it.

So WG Decided to go with something that will make this Mandatory. Even if they Deny that to be the Case.

And added Combat Buffs.

Getting a Hipper to Tier 9 is on Purpose NOT to get a Better Ship than the Roon. But to get a Different One that maybe you find more Fun to Play.

Unlike the NTC which will Simply give you Hipper +1+2+3 while still being in T8 and then Roflstomping anyone who has not Grinded his way there.

 

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10 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

I dont think I know a Single Ship where Armor is Accurate.

Mostly even Belt and Turret Armor are Different.

Dunno, from random three ships I googled off (Iowa, NC and Tirpitz) only Tirpitz have "inaccurate" upper hull plating, 160mm in game compared to some random armor sketch stating 145mm

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[BOA2Y]
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Many players or CCs offered suggestions that would have benefitted the game... 

But sadly WG seems to want only a lot money very fast, even if this will ruin the game in the long run. 

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TBH WGing have totally bodged the silver economy.

Adding Coal, Steel, and event-specific currencies makes credits less useful, and thus paradoxically leads to greater inflation.  An obvious demonstration of this is how unspent event-tokens turn into excess credits when an event ends.  Collection items from loot-boxes and the rewards they give add a tertiary "currency" to the game which further complicates this.
A currency can't act as a sink if you can't spend it freely!
This is compounded by the clan-port economy bonuses which increase the inflationary pressure on those currencies.

The in-game credit-sinks are all bypassed by give-aways:
Signal Flags get given away for in-game achievements, from containers and super-containers, from daily missions, from events, etc, etc.
Early on in the game a sizeable proportion of my low-tier income went on the for-credits camos; now I've got a page FULL of event camos building faster than I can burn through them.
Hell, WGing are even planning to get rid of Premium Consumables - one of the main credit-sinks still in the game!  What's the stack of premium consumables I've amassed from doing different missions and Yammy legendary module grind going to do for me then?  Do I get a refund, because that's more credits going out of sinks and into my pocket if they do!
They give away premium ships as event rewards / for event tokens, which generate - yep - more silver and cost less silver to float.

The in-game credit sinks are all negated by premium bloat:  I didn't want Siren camo with my Azur Lane captains pack, I'd rather have saved IRL money, or else had gold – but if you're going to force me to spend IRL money / gold on camo I don't want, I'm sure as hell not going to be sinking credits on non-premium camos.  Ditto for receiving stacks of flags.
Oh, you got a WOWS premium account?  Here's 10% more silver than you get with a WGing premium account - which we've got to give with one hand, and then take with another because it causes inflation.
Here, spend money on a perma-camo, you'll save a load of silver which we've got to pull right back out of the game again because it's inflationary.

You can buy credits for IRL money, and convert Gold to credits as an indirect extension of this.
When you're literally offering a store-feature that converts IRL money into credits (and indeed, doubloons that convert into cash as well) it's a [edited] move to then introduce economy-sinks to devalue that end-currency because you've introduced a million other forms of inflation.

Potential in-game credit sinks have instead been monetised:
Respeccing your CO?  Could take silver out of the game, instead it takes gold - and even that's bypassed by doing a clanwars battle.
Moved your CO to a new boat?  Well, you could spend 200k silver and still have a grind - or you could just spend gold and have no grind.  Could easily have it so that retraining a CO to 100% cost significantly more silver proportional to tier.
Want to boost your XP / CO grind with a special camo?  Could take silver out of the game, instead it costs gold.
Want to burn off some of that ship-XP you've got doing nothing on your elites?  That could burn off a load of credits, but instead it costs a ton of gold.

Makes me wonder if WGing are ignorant of what they're doing and are "indian giving" out of desperation, or if they've intentionally muddied the economy to confuse players into accepting ever more watered down and obfuscated promotions.

 

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23 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Dunno, from random three ships I googled off (Iowa, NC and Tirpitz) only Tirpitz have "inaccurate" upper hull plating, 160mm in game compared to some random armor sketch stating 145mm

 

Well Mate then lets take a Look at the Iowa.

 

In Reality the Iowa had. 3 Sections of Outer Layer on here Side.

And a Progressive Section of Internal Armor Belt.

 

The Outer Section from Top to Bottom was 16mm 38mm 16mm

In the Game the Outer Section is 38mm 32mm 32mm

This Change is because the 16mm it had in Reality. Would be Overmatched and Penetrated by HE in the Game.

And the Upper Section of this is Part of the Main Ship Armor. So Penetrations would Deal Full Pen Damage. (Lower Sections are Counted as Outer Shell and thus would not count like that)

 

The Progressive Armor Belt Starts with 307mm at the Top and goes down to about 15mm at the Bottom.

In the Game the Armor Belt also Starts with 307mm But its far Thicker in Overall. Around the Middle where it should be 150mm its still nearly 170mm

And then the entire Rest is just about 60mm while in Reality it would go below Half of that further Down.

Now Part of the Change can be Explained because the Game does not have Progressive Armor. And thus cant Variate the Thickness like that. So WG just was a bit Generous with the Sections Simply giving out the Higher Part of the Armor for an Entire Section Flat instead of the Lower Part.

The Remaining Change again is due to Wargaming Balancing. Because if they Reduced it to below 30mm like in Reality. These Sections could be Overmatched. And Result in Auto Citadel from Yamato for example.

And even if going down to 20mm even Auto Citadel from other Ships.

 

This is Pretty Normal.

Because Wargamings Penetration Mechanics are Unrealistic in the First Place.

And so is alot of the Damage Calculations.

 

Thats why Wargaming needs to Improve or Nerf some Areas of the Armor so it doesnt end up causing Automatic Citadels and HE Penetrations against a Ship Section not Intended to be Penetrated by HE.

I mean it would Certainly be Funny if a DD could Autopen the Side of an Iowa due to the Outer Armor Belt. But as you can Guess it would also be rather Frustrating.

Imagine an Z52 Pelting the Side of an Iowa with HE Shell and getting Pens into the Main Hull of the Ship while Hitting the Upper Belt Armor.

Not exactly how this is Intended to work right :)

 

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