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Littelfoot

Why are YOU playing this game?

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In light of the upcomming Naval Training Center (aka NTC) and the huge outrage becaue of it, I wanted to start from a different position to hopefully change something in this games development so here goes my first topic.

Main reason for this is seeing so many players beeing highly emotional while not beeing able to express what would matter, namely a solid reason for why the NTC is a bad idea.

If anyone looks in this forum or reddit they will notice that the community doesn't like NTC but the purpose of this thread is to find the reason for it. If you want to talk about something else please use the other threads to not derail my efforts.

 

After watching the Introduction and Q&A of the NTC to the CCs I was baffled that noone mentioned a good reason against this feature other than balance and the skill gap between old and new players, maybe they where all just so stuned by the implications this new feature proposes and maybe they talked about that later. No matter I'm not here to blame the CCs but to pick up an important topic that I think has been neglected so far.

Now we all know that balance is a thing that is measured by statistics at WG, same for the skill gap it seems like. I take that deduction from the vid and dev blog since they share some insight about the huge differences when talking about premium consumables.

 

 

 

So far with the introduction, now the main point of this thread. Since the developer are looking for ways to keep their players playing the game (by having to grind) and maybe even introduce new players I think we should share the most important reason we are playing this game and why so many people think this is the worst thing that ever happened. I too share the very negative feeling for the NTC but I know why I still play this game in particular:

 

  • The game is competitive

 

Yes that's all. Over all the games I played and am still playing this is the one deciding factor for me to keep playing a game or drop it in the corner after I'm finished with it. I can give you examples from MMORPGs to single player strategy games. Sure there are other reasons to why I play a game but the reason on top is the main reason why I keep playing. No graphics, no innovative gameplay mechanics can keep me bound to a game like the replay value of a competitive game does. I really just like to play something and get good in it. Maybe teach someone else, theorycraft about best builds and so on.
 

I know I know WoWS is not known to be a competitive game especially without a skill-based match making and people keeping their stars for farming the most damage and all of that.

But in the end it comes down to my ship against the enemies ship and thats what matters. I know that to expect, the radar and secondary ranges of several ships as well as their dispersion characteristics. I know that I can try to fight an German BB in open water in a cruiser if I am far enough away so his shells wont be able to hit me reliably.

Let's imagine a situation in ranked for the sake of having two fully upgraded ships (without NTC) to further specify the problem.

If I'm driving my Amagi and see a Bismarck on the opposite team I know what to expect. I know that the max range of his secondaries is 11.3km and that I have to try to keep him at a range bigger than that or I will lose the fight against him. I know that my health pool is already a bit smaller (2.900 health) and I know that my guns are more reliable. But all of this information gets completely changed with NTC. You now can't denounce the strenght of a ship by the name alone but have to factor unknown stuff like level two upgrades into account. It gets even worse if you take two of the same ship. Yes the players are never equally skilled and captain skills are maybe different and what not. But even if all of that was equal or better on my side I would still lose to someone with a higher upgrade level despite of beeing the better player.

 

The addition of the Naval Training Center will remove equality between players even more. Yes you have to buy modules and level your captain now. Yes this might be a bigger impact than what the NTC might bring in total.

But the grind for these things stops relativly soon. Most of the ships can be played in their "endgame" configuration with only a 14 point captain or even below that. Farming some extra credits to equip ones favourite ship with the best modules doesnt take more than a week. And most of the time you can play around this stuff which is also a major point the community expressed in regard of the CV rework. If I see another Bismarck in my own Bismarck but I know I dont have the longer range secondaries I can still stay out of range from him. With the new updates the game becomes much more of a guessing game than it already is.

 

Lastly I want to explain why a competitive game is important. If you have a competitive environment in your game the game itself has a high replay value. This means that players will play your game just to get better even if there are no rewards. Best example for this would be StarCraft. Even the old SC was still getting played by millions of players despite not having any new content from 1998 (SC:BW) to 2010 (SC2:WoL). No events, no new classes just the same old game for 12 (!) years. And some players even went back to BW after they didnt like WoL.

This means if you manage to balance your game up to perfection players will play it for the fun of competive gameplay alone. So please Wargaming do not let your game become another p2w title as the countless ones released by EA in the past years, ruining even the Star Wars franchise with it. A game is more fun if youre punished for mistakes and not just get a bigger an bigger weapon to beat anyone that you meet. Because as soon as you can kill everyone with ease you move on to the next game since this one is boring now.

 

 

 

So, despite my long rant about what the game needs in my opinion I would still like to know what are your reasons to play. Is it the competitive mindset like it is for me? Are you rather just playing for the visuals?

Or is it the potential to grind a ship into perfection like Wargaming thinks it is? If possible I would like to know from you why are YOU playing this game?

Feel free to add some reasons for it too and not just some rather short answer so we can convince the devs about this!

 

 

 

TL;DR: WG thinks you play game to grind, do you really?

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[HOO]
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I honestly don't know anymore.

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[-AP-]
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Because theres only 2 months left of the games lifespan, playing while i can

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3 minutes ago, Littelfoot said:

TL;DR: WG thinks you play game to grind, do you really?

 

I hate grinding. Can easily be seen by the ships i played, and the abysmal amount of TX ships i own :Smile_hiding:

I play the ships which are fun to play. Sadly, with all the stuff WG are changing, ships which were previously fun to play arent necessarily fun to play currently. Also powercreeps doesnt help in that matter. IDC which tier the ship has, but once again, WG is not helping by forcing me to play other stuff in order to keep up with their rediculous grinding missions.

 

- I like to play OPs - currently we have only 4 of them, which gets boring fast. Dynamo was removed with 0.8.0 which i enjoyed a lot. It helped me with grinding FreeXP which i could use to unlock ships/modules. Hopping randomly into OPs is extremely unfun aswell, because the players in there are below bot level :Smile_sceptic: So id play more OPs, if there would be more competent players in there and the variety would be bigger.

- Hightier gameplay is on abysmal levels now.

- Thx to current Meta (aka thx WG), even playing some midtier ships is as unfun as it can be. Oh i face a RU BB while playing Marblehead/Murmanks. I cant do anything against it. Fiji facing a RU BB? buahaha thats a good one. So playing Cruisers right now is mostly unfun. And i like Cruisers the most.

 

1 by 1, WG is killing the game for me, because they want to force people what to play. And now they make it out to be, that we want to play more midtiers :Smile_facepalm: How about dont ruin the game, then we can have fun again :Smile_sceptic:

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[OGHF]
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Beginning to wonder why thats for sure, thought the idea was to get to the top of the tree and learn how to play your ships with there pros and cons and making there pros work for you?

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Players
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I play for escapism, and for fun, also because of the competitiveness of it all,but changes are being made which i d not think is favourable, and things are not being added which could make things better, selling re-searchable ships,why bother grinding, premium ships being nerfed willy nilly, hard t imagine the WG offices as anything other than vodka swilling, pot smoking dens.

I came here from WoT's, a game I was addicted to, now I hate bitterly, here even I am seeing a decline and questioning as to why I play anymore, add to that a serious humongous amount of premium days which  certainly don't recall buying, I wounder if my premium account will out last the game itself?

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[BONI]
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- I like naval/marine stuff.

 

- Only real-time competitive game besides War Thunder that's reasonably playable on satellite internet, that I know of.

 

- War Thunder feels sloppy and unbalanced, at least low-rank RBs. Imagine in WoWS not being able to use DCP or Repair on stock ships. Gaijin doesn't give a ****, they've been doing NTC-level stuff for years.

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[B0TS]
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For me, I played naval miniture wargames when I was growing up (300 scale), an this is a way to sort of get that back a bit - so the PvP aspect with warships (even arcady versions/mechanics - up to a point). Didn't like Navy Field, and most others are against an AI, which is never that good (yet).

 

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[LO1]
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loved the game since Alpha.... But its not easy to play any more... the players that have the awareness of road kill... have stuck at the game and have infected t8 t9 t10. and the amount of them, plays a big part of a lot of the games, that one side just rolling over the other.   

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[MORIA]
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Why it is a bad idea? Becouse i got zero interest in grinding ships, i play tier 7-10, mostly 10, and thats about it. I play to improve, get better vs other other players. I have the tool to play now ( my tier 7-10s) and i dont want to suddently loose them, and having to start over. Yes that is what i would call it, why even bother going into a competitive game if you start at a disadvantage? Then some idiot will mention MM, tier 8 vs 10 etc, i dont [edited]care, if im a tier 8, it means enemy team have a tier 8 aswell so i have to play better than that guy on average to get higher winrate. But i will NEVER regrind my ships, infact i spent too much money freexping them all becouse i hate lowtiers.

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Why would I play WOWS?

 

Short and simple answer: For the real world WW1 and WW2 warships and aircraft.

 

The more WOWS is being pushed into the realm of a fantasy game with ships/aircraft that NEVER even had a finalized paper design, ships/aircraft whose construction was NEVER started or ships/aircraft that would NOT have had a chance to being anywhere near completion/deployment before August 1945, the less interested I become in WOWS.

 

Sadly, with this incessant focus in WOWS on making money on Tier 9 and Tier 10 ships in WOWS and the release of ever more fantasy ships/aircraft whose capabilities in game completely overshadow the real world WW1 and WW2 ships/aircraft that actually existed, the less interesting the game has become.

 

Looking at all the newly released fantasy ships in WOWS over the past few months, one cannot escape the conclusion that the people that are interested in real world WW1 and WW2 warships and aircraft are no longer the target audience of WOWS. If they ever really were that is.

 

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I play because I like blowing stuff up, Naval fiction; especially that featuring Admiral Lady Dame Honor Harrington.

And like all misguided children I know better than Naval officers how to drive warships!:cap_popcorn:

 

Internet cookie for anyone who recognises my screen name.

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Because I've invested to much time and money in it to totally abandon the game. That said I'm enjoying WoWs Legends on the PS4 a lot more. The biggest problem for me is that wargaming think I'm obsessed with owning and playing T10 blueprint only cold war ships, well I'm not. I'm much more happier playing historical ships I like, which means I'll be a lot happier playing top tier in legends.

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Vor 11 Stunden, Littelfoot sagte:

Main reason for this is seeing so many players beeing highly emotional while not beeing able to express what would matter, namely a solid reason for why the NTC is a bad idea.

Nono, that's just you failing to understand how good their reason was.

 

Zitat

After watching the Introduction and Q&A of the NTC to the CCs I was baffled that noone mentioned a good reason against this feature other than balance and the skill gap between old and new players,

 

Everything you go on to explain in your lengthy post is covered by the simple word "balance". If you just think about it for a second.

 

And when it comes to that, frankly the most stunning revelation was this morning on Flamu's stream, skipping through more conference vid, to the place where a developer actually admitted in so many words "Never mind balance, the main thing is the class/ship is popular."

 

Which is why, the guy announced then and there, they will for example nerf AA once again, should the carrier population drop below a certain threshold.

 

Never mind making the things fun to play or anything... frankly, this is what us Germans call an intellectual declaration of bankruptcy if ever I heard one.

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I originally planned to plead insanity... BUT :cap_hmm:

 

On the other hand what other alternative is there? MMO naval  wargames aren't exactly a dime in a dozen out there and I keep finding single-player games get boring really fast. So I guess there's not much choice. Of course there is Steel Ocean, but it's really not a "choice" any sane person would like to make and War Thunder is starting with some ships so maybe there is some future chance of that too. But for now, despite of all its shortcomings (like the glaringly horrifying  absence of IJN Tone from the roster) this still seems to be the best available option (aside of completely stopping to play, which i do not want to do).:cap_old:

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[THESO]
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Ladies and gentelmen,

Even though the Naval Training Station subject is the cause of this thread,

I'd like to read people's reasons why they really play this game...

So If you please keep it on that and lets not make it about NTS.

So we can have a very nice thread which stays open :)

 

Gd'd day,

 

PS: If I can find some time between moderation and my daily work (which I need to do because they are paying money to me to buy shiny pixel shipz!)

I will come back and add my reasons... !

 

 

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4 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

ships which are fun to play

 

And what make ship "fun to play"?

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9 minutes ago, Sigimundus said:

 

And what make ship "fun to play"?

Depends what playstyle you like. I enjoy proper div teamplay, so USN DDs or USN cruisers fit me well. Others might enjoy more agressive play and then like ships that fit that playstyle. 

 

Saying that tho i dont really play much anymore after WG started pumping out one OP ship after another. A few games  here and there is what i do. Thats about it. 

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Just now, Sigimundus said:

 

And what make ship "fun to play"?

 

Thats subjective ofc, everyone has their own favorites. Thats why we have mains for each class. Overall i prefer Cruisers, but lately a lot of people have been saying, why play Cruisers at all? And i can understand that to a certain degree, it feels its getting worse and worse. Well, now with AA change atleast against CVs it got a bit better. But playing against Russian BB(ias) is extremely unfun - that everyone is playing them atm doesnt make it any better + i can see people continueing to play them because they are pretty tanky and can perform close-midrange better than other BBs.

Playing BB feels much easier and less frustrating, you get your results almost every game, (roflstomp)win or loss:

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.006cc5aada0acc2f95d5756b999ad90b.png

 

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I really don't think naming just one reason is enough to explain my feelings on the matter. But my most important reason is my love for history. That is why I have chosen to grind the ship lines that actually existed and played important roles in history - in other words no Russians, and I don't give a damn about the French or Asians either. I have exceptions to this, like the Nicholas which is fun to play, and the Amagi which is simply beautiful, but even they are part of ship lines that were very real. This is also why I have so far been willing to forgive this game for its many faults, especially technical ones. I play on Mac, and the Mac wrapper for this game is garbage. If I wanted to play a game that worked better on my Mac, anything would be better than this.

 

Another reason why I have favored this game is that it is not pay to win. Yes, there have been premium ships that were overpowered, but overall player ability is still a far more significant factor of success. And that is something that is threatened by the Naval Training Center. It is not just about the balance which is already bad, but the pay to win aspect of it. I have never had huge amounts of free experience to spare, and what I get I hoard for the next ships that require it. I have never used any of it to get new ship lines immediately at release, in fact I have never used any in the tech tree at all. Who would even have that much to spare? That's right, the people who pay money, the people who buy premium time, the people who convert free experience with doubloons. This plan is not about giving players something new to do. It is a blatant pay to win cash grab.

 

And that brings me to my final reason why I dread this change. It appears to signal the end of this game's lifespan. Why else would Wargaming cut back on releasing new content and cash in?

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1 minute ago, MortenTardo said:

Depends what playstyle you like. I enjoy proper div teamplay, so USN DDs or USN cruisers fit me well. Others might enjoy more agressive play and then like ships that fit that playstyle. 

 

Saying that tho i dont really play much anymore after WG started pumping out one OP ship after another. A few games  here and there is what i do. Thats about it. 

 

11 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Thats subjective ofc, everyone has their own favorites. Thats why we have mains for each class. Overall i prefer Cruisers, but lately a lot of people have been saying, why play Cruisers at all? And i can understand that to a certain degree, it feels its getting worse and worse. Well, now with AA change atleast against CVs it got a bit better. But playing against Russian BB(ias) is extremely unfun - that everyone is playing them atm doesnt make it any better + i can see people continueing to play them because they are pretty tanky and can perform close-midrange better than other BBs.

Playing BB feels much easier and less frustrating, you get your results almost every game, (roflstomp)win or loss:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.006cc5aada0acc2f95d5756b999ad90b.png

 

 

 

Yes you are right that is subjective and it also depends on playstyle. But I think it should be something deeper.

Because for me most fun ships now are Shimakaze, Haraguno and secondary build GK . . . . two DD with totally different playstyle and suboptional skill/modules build BB. Also for some worst t10 DD, OP t10 DD and meh t10 BB.

So it is not by easienest of playing the ship or of OP status of the ship . . . so it is about destroying enemy ships? I'm not shure because i tried different "OP" ships as for example Stalingrad and dont like to play with them . . .

So what is the atomic reason we play this game and have fun by it?

I personally do not know exact rational reasons make fun ship, but i feel it when I play wow.

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THE reason?

 

The combination of what it brings.

 

Mostly consisting of:

A bit of (mostly) real naval history

An environment where you can measure and (try to) improve individual performance (aka competitive, even in solo randoms)

F2P and not (quite yet) P2W like many are

Requires (sort of) more strategy/awareness than just point and click and fast reactions of (some) FPS

An active playerbase

Choice, in what ships to play, lines to grind and ways to play (random, co-op and ops. Would like to see more ops!)

And having fun of course... mostly

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4 minutes ago, Sigimundus said:

So it is not by easienest of playing the ship or of OP status of the ship . . . so it is about destroying enemy ships? I'm not shure because i tried different "OP" ships as for example Stalingrad and dont like to play with them . . .

So what is the atomic reason we play this game and have fun by it? 

I personally do not know exact rational reasons make fun ship, but i feel it when I play wow.

 

I like Omaha + Premium version Cruisers of it :Smile_hiding:

Spoiler

image.png.6dfc03f7baa8901de1e9141c2f568f7a.png

Same problem however: Not that much fun lately :Smile_sad:

 

I think, the more consistently you can have nice games (wins + damage/kills), the more fun a ship is for me. Thats why i dont really like BBs too much... too much RNG for my taste. Alltho some are better, some are worse. Musashi is nice f.e.

Baltimore was quite fun lately, almost every game is ~+80k damage which is not bad.

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Why do I play this game? A few reasons, I guess.

 

The pacing is perfect for me. I have been a gamer for many years but I am getting old now, and older by the day, and so my reaction times are not what they once were and this puts me at a disadvantage when playing other games. I have always liked the "shoot and kill stuff" sort of games, whether that be RTS or FPS, but the pacing of those is often times too fast for me now. WoWS fits perfectly.

 

WoWS is a "thinking man's game" and I am a thinking man. It allows me to use my brain to compensate for my lack of reflexes and where age has deteriorated the latter it has, so far, been kind to the former.

 

I have invested a lot of time in this game and have finally become (relatively) good at it. I occasionally try other games but, to be honest, I find the whole learning a game from scratch in order to be good at it far too time consuming and a bit too much effort now and so I always fall back to this one where I (more or less) know what I am doing.

 

Lastly, for the most part, the community is fantastic - one of the best gaming communities I have ever known. Sure we get one or two "bad apples" but they tend to be the exception rather than the rule. People talk to each other respectfully (on the whole) and with very little of the "internet tough guy" silliness that I find in other communities. You guys are great!

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