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Aotearas

Premium/Alternative ammunition when?

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So, when are we going to get premium/alternative ammunition? Can't take much longer considering the route WG is going.

 

Would probably even balans at that point, new players would need it to bridge the performance gap to experienced players with tier III improvements on their Stalingrads/Belfasts/etc..

 

I want this discussion to be about the mechanical feasability of premium/alternative ammunition and NOT about WG's latest PR stunt as noted in the below quotation.

 

1 hour ago, Excavatus said:

I know @Aotearas

So, after a couple PM exchange in between us, we've agreed on that this topic was a little bit sarcastic reaction to the devblog news,

but again, he said following the developments, prem ammo may be a real thread in wows future so he wanted the discussion about that subject to continue...

and talking about that in devblog would be offtopic.

 

So, as I promised him, this topic is unlocked.
But please keep the topic on prem ammunation.

with the current heat going around for the last hour, If topic de-rails into something else,

I'd have to close it again.

 

 

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Considering how WoT leaked over here and the way they vocally preach for more of the same i'd say it's about 2-3 patches away.

Calling it - premium SAP shell with both citadels and fire chances. (also proximity fuse HE-VT as another premium option)

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Also, premium planes, when?

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1 minute ago, 22cm said:

Also, premium planes, when?

I presume that would be encompassed in the CV specific improvements.

 

But airplanes could drop premium bombs/rockets/torpedoes.

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I know @Aotearas

So, after a couple PM exchange in between us, we've agreed on that this topic was a little bit sarcastic reaction to the devblog news,

but again, he said following the developments, prem ammo may be a real thread in wows future so he wanted the discussion about that subject to continue...

and talking about that in devblog would be offtopic.

 

So, as I promised him, this topic is unlocked.
But please keep the topic on prem ammunation.

with the current heat going around for the last hour, If topic de-rails into something else,

I'd have to close it again.

 

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

I know @Aotearas

So, after a couple PM exchange in between us, we've agreed on that this topic was a little bit sarcastic reaction to the devblog news,

but again, he said following the developments, prem ammo may be a real thread in wows future so he wanted the discussion about that subject to continue...

and talking about that in devblog would be offtopic.

 

So, as I promised him, this topic is unlocked.
But please keep the topic on prem ammunation.

with the current heat going around for the last hour, If topic de-rails into something else,

I'd have to close it again.

 

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

We can obviously draw conclusions from how premium ammunition works from WoT, however I haven't played that title so I'm not particularily experienced with the effects of it.

 

First thing that would need be discussed would be the definition of premium ammunition, or more accurately how it should differentiate from normal ammunition. Obvisiously it shouldn't simply be better in every regard, because that would make the game unbalanced in favour of everyone who's willing to thrown enough money at WG (I'm presuming premium ammunition would also be available for credits to make availability independent from spending IRL money on doubloons).

 

Rather than for example have premium HE (improved damage and fire chance) and premium AP (improved damage, penetration and/or pen angles) we could have different types of ammunition that would offer advantages in specific gameplay scenarious.

 

Things like Semi-Armour Piercing High Explosive shells could act like AP shells (standard AP penetration mechanics and no fire chance) but with the added characteristics of say having a much reduced fuze timer to make the more effective against ships your normal AP would regularily overpenetrate.

 

Other ideas or examples based on real ammunition types used during/around WW2?

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I personally think,

as a player who has more than 20K battles in WOT,

there should be more than 2 ammo types, but lets not call them prem ammo..

 

If you balance them good enoug, people may choose different types of ammunation for different builds..

lets say, we can give HE shells and HEAP shells.. which can have half the pen value of regular AP and half the explosive charge of the HE (I'm just creating this idea right now from my behind so don't take it as a concept!)

 

or we can have different ammunation for different type of ships.. like some ammunation doing less damage or may be no damage but can only create fires..

but when you hit a ship with it.. it loses detectability for a given time.. and you can give this ammunation to the DDs..

I don't know..

Regular prem ammo, and even in WOT it is changing now, is no good idea for me..

but different types of ammunation??? may be good..

but it will need a lot of rework for a lot of game mechanics.. including the XP system.. because right now it is too heavily leaning on damage..

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I also have more than 20,000 battles in WoT and yes I use Premium ammo when needed. But at the same time it is the biggest bone of contention for those that want to play a free game.  Coming  to WoWs was a big relief from those in game accusations and endless forum discussions. Just let's not have it here as well.

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3 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

there should be more than 2 ammo types, but lets not call them prem ammo..

Good point ... there's enough negative connotations to the premium prefix.

 

I for one had always liked the idea of the german CAs getting improved penetration angles rather than improved HE penetrations. Having say RN CL AP penetration angles and short fuze would offer a good compromise between keeping the national flavour of strong german AP alpha and maintaining its effectiveness in sitautions where the enemy isn't cooperatively showing a nice broadside, or in case of soft targets like squishy CLs or DDs the ability to still deal consistent damage that isn't just overpens or having to rely on the frankly anemic HE performance.

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17 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Other ideas or examples based on real ammunition types used during/around WW2?

 

Only one comes to my mind, that " Beehive " ammo the Japanese tried to use against aircraft.

 

The French tried to load their normal ammo with poison gas, but that wouldnt be useful here, since it was designed against the ships's crew.

 

Edit : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Shiki_(anti-aircraft_shell)

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12 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

I personally think,

as a player who has more than 20K battles in WOT,

there should be more than 2 ammo types, but lets not call them prem ammo..

Oh, you mean call it "special ammo"?:Smile_trollface:

Jokes aside,

how would it even work? I still have Vietnam flashbacks from WoT...it's the whole reason I started playing this roflmao

edit:i'm not being sarcastic, I'm not being passive aggressive, I just realized my sarcasm sounded like passive aggression but I don't want it to be interpreted that way, thank you.

Edited by Filipin00
disclaimer added

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Just now, K82J said:

Only one comes to my mind, that " Beehive " ammo the Japanese tried to use against aircraft.

Would be interesting. Historically those have only really been used effectively in shore bombardment as the massive mainguns where woefully inadequate as AA platforms (plus the whole thing about having to clear the deck to fire the mainguns as the blastwave could kill anyone caught on deck when those massive guns fired).

 

Ingame they could be used like an AoE scattershot, i.e.: a HE shotgun. Would make for a competent anti-DD ammunition to ensure at least some hits with each fragment dealing a proportionally lower amount of damage (sacrificing HE alpha and firechance for much improved hitratio). Would also be extremely good at blindfiring into smokes.

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3 minutes ago, 250swb said:

I also have more than 20,000 battles in WoT and yes I use Premium ammo when needed. But at the same time it is the biggest bone of contention for those that want to play a free game.  Coming  to WoWs was a big relief from those in game accusations and endless forum discussions. Just let's not have it here as well.

Looks like WoW's and WOT's are in collusion about how to ruin games then, sad just really sad, it is bad enoughif your called out a HE spam, lol,now we get gold ammo too?

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Just now, Aotearas said:

Would be interesting. Historically those have only really been used effectively in shore bombardment as the massive mainguns where woefully inadequate as AA platforms (plus the whole thing about having to clear the deck to fire the mainguns as the blastwave could kill anyone caught on deck when those massive guns fired).

 

Ingame they could be used like an AoE scattershot, i.e.: a HE shotgun. Would make for a competent anti-DD ammunition to ensure at least some hits with each fragment dealing a proportionally lower amount of damage (sacrificing HE alpha and firechance for much improved hitratio). Would also be extremely good at blindfiring into smokes.

That sounds great for secondaries.

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2 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Would be interesting. Historically those have only really been used effectively in shore bombardment as the massive mainguns where woefully inadequate as AA platforms (plus the whole thing about having to clear the deck to fire the mainguns as the blastwave could kill anyone caught on deck when those massive guns fired).

 

Ingame they could be used like an AoE scattershot, i.e.: a HE shotgun. Would make for a competent anti-DD ammunition to ensure at least some hits with each fragment dealing a proportionally lower amount of damage (sacrificing HE alpha and firechance for much improved hitratio). Would also be extremely good at blindfiring into smokes.

 

Didnt thought about to use them so, but it is an interesting idea.

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8 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

That sounds great for secondaries.

Problem is that I haven't seen any example of those tpes of shells being used for anything other than BB caliber ammunition. And though one could halfway reasonably handwave that problem to some extent to extend the availability of such ammunition to other gun calibers, I believe secondaries would be a bit of a stretch even for that.

 

Doesn't mean though that secondaries as a whole would need be exempted from the option of using different ammunition types. HE was always considered superiour because of the nature of where the AI aimed the secondaries at making AP secondaries typically inferiour as they bounced at angle or shattered on mainbelts (though they could be hilarious if you got the broadside of something with those IJN 140mm AP secs). Perhaps a new targeting profile could be tied to secondary shell type and you could choose between HE (guns aim at superstructure) and AP (guns aim for upper hull).

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1 hour ago, CptBarney said:

Don't forget Super consumables!

How could you forget Premium Armor? It's only fair for everyone else to fork out more doubloons so they don't get shot by premium ammo.

 

I think I'll pass on premium ammo, the concept of it reeks of EA and litterally brings nothing to the game.

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"our data shows that the community reacted very positive towards this idea" - wg about gold ammo, late 2019

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2 hours ago, Aotearas said:

But airplanes could drop premium bombs/rockets/torpedoes.

 

13VnVKI.jpg

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2 hours ago, Aotearas said:

Thank you.

 

 

We can obviously draw conclusions from how premium ammunition works from WoT, however I haven't played that title so I'm not particularily experienced with the effects of it.

 

First thing that would need be discussed would be the definition of premium ammunition, or more accurately how it should differentiate from normal ammunition. Obvisiously it shouldn't simply be better in every regard, because that would make the game unbalanced in favour of everyone who's willing to thrown enough money at WG (I'm presuming premium ammunition would also be available for credits to make availability independent from spending IRL money on doubloons).

 

Rather than for example have premium HE (improved damage and fire chance) and premium AP (improved damage, penetration and/or pen angles) we could have different types of ammunition that would offer advantages in specific gameplay scenarious.

 

Things like Semi-Armour Piercing High Explosive shells could act like AP shells (standard AP penetration mechanics and no fire chance) but with the added characteristics of say having a much reduced fuze timer to make the more effective against ships your normal AP would regularily overpenetrate.

 

Other ideas or examples based on real ammunition types used during/around WW2?

premium HE could basically be like German HE, higher pen, less everything else.

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'Lets not call it premium ammo' + 'good idea' = wtf

Gold/Premium ammo = me leaving WOWs as fast as I left WOT.

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2 hours ago, Filipin00 said:

Oh, you mean call it "special ammo"?

13 minutes ago, Europizza said:

'Lets not call it premium ammo' + 'good idea' = wtf

Gold/Premium ammo = me leaving WOWs as fast as I left WOT.

 

By that I just I meant, different ammo types you can get free,

without paying more from regular ammo..

so this way evey ammo has its own plus and minus features.

If people start to pay, anything, any currency, they will expect it to be better in somehow.

thats what I meant

 

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29 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

13VnVKI.jpg

but Enterprise will be unable to slot them!

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