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The Addictive Cost Of Predatory Videogame Monetization, courtesy of US forums

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Very good post by yacskn  https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/195100-the-addictive-cost-of-predatory-videogame-monetization/ , showcasing recent Jim Sterling video on aggresive monetisation in gaming, and tricks used to enforce it:

 

Also good link to article, mentioning methods of addicting people to gambling:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement#Gambling_–_variable_ratio_scheduling

 

Just food for thought, its good to know tricks, that can be used against you.

 

Take care everyone.

Joe

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Social engineering is at the heart of all corporate consumer strategy. we are literally being sold products that we are programmed to buy.

 

I was a victim of this strategy myself for e.g. I bought the T-61 package just for the T-61 commemorative flag so that I could put it on all my German ships.

 

The best way to combat this stuff is to become addicted to the free stuff and be a collector of that instead.

 

Now I am always combing the forums, blogs and news channels for that bonus code or next mission to get a free patch, flag or other collectible.

 

I dont pay for anything!!!!!!

 

 

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Nothing that hasn't already been seen in any market economy anywhere around the world. 

 

If people didn't buy them (making the practice so wildly profitable) then loot boxes, micro-transactions, etc. wouldn't be a thing. 

 

Pragmatism aside, I do believe that if hell existed - it would(should) be full of marketing people. They could keep the traffic wardens, estate agents and WOT arty players company.

 

^To be taken in jest. Just marketing people, really.

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3 minutes ago, Gvozdika said:

Nothing that hasn't already been seen in any market economy anywhere around the world. 

 

If people didn't buy them (making the practice so wildly profitable) then loot boxes, micro-transactions, etc. wouldn't be a thing. 

 

Pragmatism aside, I do believe that if hell existed - it would(should) be full of marketing people. They could keep the traffic wardens, estate agents and WOT arty players company.

 

^To be taken in jest. Just marketing people, really.

 

 

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Yes but nobody forced anybody to press the 'buy' button. If things don't work out like they think they should people claim they are 'victims' but when they do turn out well they stay quiet. Just look at the forum for people who think WG is ripping them off, but if their new ship turns out to suit them,well then we get the screenshots of results.

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I've heard of rigged slot machines that are designed to give you a small prize on your first pull to get you hooked right off the bat. Those would be illegal. In ''surprise mechanics'', you have absolutely no idea what methods are being used to manipulate you, ain't no one checking except the people who stand to gain from it. Never mind the fact you're rarely told the odds of winning, and there's no one who could verify that either. Ban that crap.

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Obligatory insertion of the lootbox-free soundtrack.

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18 minutes ago, 250swb said:

Yes but nobody forced anybody to press the 'buy' button. If things don't work out like they think they should people claim they are 'victims' but when they do turn out well they stay quiet. Just look at the forum for people who think WG is ripping them off, but if their new ship turns out to suit them,well then we get the screenshots of results.

Congratulations, you just showed everyone in here that you didn't watch the video, nor even bothered to read it's rather self-explanatory title. That means you're not even superficially wrong, but just wrong in the entirity of the subject.

 

In case you need a small primer, the video and its discussion isn't about "microtransactions are bad because I didn't get what I wanted" like you appear to think it is.

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Interestingly enough a few hours earlier on this forum:

 

 

Think I can save my time on typing where I would stand in that discussion.

 

 

17 minutes ago, 250swb said:

Yes but nobody forced anybody to press the 'buy' button. If things don't work out like they think they should people claim they are 'victims' but when they do turn out well they stay quiet. Just look at the forum for people who think WG is ripping them off, but if their new ship turns out to suit them,well then we get the screenshots of results.

 

He types that, and actually doesnt recognise the problem. Amazing. No, even better, its the tested and tried "just dont"-platitude of "wisdom" on top.

 

No again, even better with that video just being located a single, yes a single click, away from him. Thats obviously to far.

 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Congratulations, you just showed everyone in here that you didn't watch the video, nor even bothered to read it's rather self-explanatory title. That means you're not even superficially wrong, but just wrong in the entirity of the subject.

 

In case you need a small primer, the video and its discussion isn't about "microtransactions are bad because I didn't get what I wanted" like you appear to think it is.

I did watch the video, so you can cut the innuendo out.

 

It's about compulsive and addicted people not being able to control their compulsion and blaming it on the games industry. At any other time without a games industry they would be compulsive about something else. It's about people who want things they can't get and don't know when to stop going after it. But that isn't much different from people obsessing about 'likes' on Facebook.

 

If you are so impressed by a video of somebody 'stating the bleeding obvious' then it must be a total revelation to you that the games industry does tempt people to spend what they don't have for what they think they need, just like the washing machine manufacturer promises the best in the world whiteness.

 

Anybody with a obsessive compulsion or addiction knows about it because their lives suffer as a result. An alcoholic knows about it, a gamer who spends days playing a game like Fortnite knows about it, but these are squarely societietal problems. Yes innocents shouldn't be encouraged to engage in compulsive behaviour by big companies. But if behaviour such as hours online or money spent is met with bans or 'corporate moderation' from the platform then they are compulsive anyway, placing the blame and on one industry just shifts the problem onto another industry. 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, 250swb said:

I did watch the video, so you can cut the innuendo out.

Watching = Understanding, evidently.

 

32 minutes ago, 250swb said:

It's about compulsive and addicted people not being able to control their compulsion and blaming it on the games industry.

No it's not. It's about showcasing how the gaming industry does deliberately and systematically incentivizes and exploits such behaviour. Not being able to control one's compulsion is one thing, having a medium tailor-made specifically to exploit such compulsions is another. The fact you can't seem to comprehend that rather obvious distinction is rather telling on how deep you thought your opinion through.

32 minutes ago, 250swb said:

At any other time without a games industry they would be compulsive about something else. It's about people who want things they can't get and don't know when to stop going after it.

"Hey guys, this dude's an addict, but he would be an addict to something else anyway so it's okay" ... do you see how ridiculous that line of thought is?

 

32 minutes ago, 250swb said:

If you are so impressed by a video of somebody 'stating the bleeding obvious' then it must be a total revelation to you that the games industry does tempt people to spend what they don't have for what they think they need, just like the washing machine manufacturer promises the best in the world whiteness.

Funny you say that when it's you who appears to have trouble seeing the obvious as evidenced by your earlier statement.

 

32 minutes ago, 250swb said:

Anybody with a obsessive compulsion or addiction knows about it because their lives suffer as a result. An alcoholic knows about it, a gamer who spends days playing a game like Fortnite knows about it, but these are squarely societietal problems. Yes innocents shouldn't be encouraged to engage in compulsive behaviour by big companies.

Now it gets hilarious. You're contradicting your own first comment:

1 hour ago, 250swb said:

Yes but nobody forced anybody to press the 'buy' button.

 

Something tells me you don't know a whole lot on how compulsive behaviour actually makes people tick. Or do you seriously mean to make the argument that carefully orchestrated incentivation to get people hooked and subsequently develope spending habits isn't problematic because it wasn't done by physical force? That the effects of psychological manipulation are somehow irrelevant for this subject? Are you seriously making the "we didn't put a gun to their heads" excuse?

 

32 minutes ago, 250swb said:

But if behaviour such as hours online or money spent is met with bans from the platform then they are compulsive anyway, placing the blame and on one industry just shifts the problem onto another industry.

I'm not even sure what you mean to say with this bit. It's not the people being obsessively compulsive that should be regulated (or more accurately, not in this specific context, obviously they should get help but that isn't the gaming industries' responsibility), it's the monetization methods that ought to be. And yes, it's entirely reasonable to blame the gaming industry for what they're doing, the same way other industries making money off compulsive behaviour have been blamed and ultimately ended up getting regulated as consequence (gambling, tobacco, alcohol, etc.).

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39 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Watching = Understanding, evidently.

 

No it's not. It's about showcasing how the gaming industry does deliberately and systematically incentivizes and exploits such behaviour. Not being able to control one's compulsion is one thing, having a medium tailor-made specifically to exploit such compulsions is another. The fact you can't seem to comprehend that rather obvious distinction is rather telling on how deep you thought your opinion through.

"Hey guys, this dude's an addict, but he would be an addict to something else anyway so it's okay" ... do you see how ridiculous that line of thought is?

 

Funny you say that when it's you who appears to have trouble seeing the obvious as evidenced by your earlier statement.

 

Now it gets hilarious. You're contradicting your own first comment:

 

Something tells me you don't know a whole lot on how compulsive behaviour actually makes people tick. Or do you seriously mean to make the argument that carefully orchestrated incentivation to get people hooked and subsequently develope spending habits isn't problematic because it wasn't done by physical force? That the effects of psychological manipulation are somehow irrelevant for this subject? Are you seriously making the "we didn't put a gun to their heads" excuse?

 

I'm not even sure what you mean to say with this bit. It's not the people being obsessively compulsive that should be regulated (or more accurately, not in this specific context, obviously they should get help but that isn't the gaming industries' responsibility), it's the monetization methods that ought to be. And yes, it's entirely reasonable to blame the gaming industry for what they're doing, the same way other industries making money off compulsive behaviour have been blamed and ultimately ended up getting regulated as consequence (gambling, tobacco, alcohol, etc.).

Do not bother mate, he's probably working in the :etc_swear: marketing himself:cap_haloween:

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37 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Watching = Understanding, evidently.

 

No it's not. It's about showcasing how the gaming industry does deliberately and systematically incentivizes and exploits such behaviour. Not being able to control one's compulsion is one thing, having a medium tailor-made specifically to exploit such compulsions is another. The fact you can't seem to comprehend that rather obvious distinction is rather telling on how deep you thought your opinion through.

"Hey guys, this dude's an addict, but he would be an addict to something else anyway so it's okay" ... do you see how ridiculous that line of thought is?

 

Funny you say that when it's you who appears to have trouble seeing the obvious as evidenced by your earlier statement.

 

Now it gets hilarious. You're contradicting your own first comment:

 

Something tells me you don't know a whole lot on how compulsive behaviour actually makes people tick. Or do you seriously mean to make the argument that carefully orchestrated incentivation to get people hooked and subsequently develope spending habits isn't problematic because it wasn't done by physical force? That the effects of psychological manipulation are somehow irrelevant for this subject? Are you seriously making the "we didn't put a gun to their heads" excuse?

 

I'm not even sure what you mean to say with this bit. It's not the people being obsessively compulsive that should be regulated (or more accurately, not in this specific context, obviously they should get help but that isn't the gaming industries' responsibility), it's the monetization methods that ought to be. And yes, it's entirely reasonable to blame the gaming industry for what they're doing, the same way other industries making money off compulsive behaviour have been blamed and ultimately ended up getting regulated as consequence (gambling, tobacco, alcohol, etc.).

You are behaving like you just discovered something and haven't quite thought it through yet. 

 

You cant stop compulsive behaviour because if the person has a compulsive nature they will find an outlet for it one way or another. Saying the gaming industry tempts them is as stupid as it's obverse in that nothing else would tempt them.

 

But the bottom line is that you seem to think compulsive behaviour is bad, and that because you play pixel games that is where you vent your expertise. Compulsive behaviour is not bad and is not to be discouraged, without it we would still be in the stone age with no science, no art, and no gaming industry. Compulsive behaviour is however in need of channeling and given a realistic face, a more complicated process when compulsions in the modern age go from wanting to be a celebrity to wanting a winning bet on the Grand National. It is regressive and idiotic to simply ban compulsive behaviour and dreams and leave people with a void

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26 minutes ago, DariusJacek said:

Do not bother mate, he's probably working in the :etc_swear: marketing himself:cap_haloween:

No, much simpler than that. You've just watched a video and had the wool pulled from your eyes because none of you normally go off on one each time a special offer is on about how manipulative WG is screwing with people's minds. And because of this born again status you are spreading the gospel of what you've seen in the video and missing the fundamental point, it's the person who presses 'Buy' or 'Play' that is incentivised by society, the corporate body's are simply taping into a hope for easy success. 

 

If you want to grab gaming companies by the balls and bring them to account one of the first places to start is reality TV and sites such as Facebook and YouTube influencers. They are the places more people start to waste their lives on false dreams. Obviously the gaming industry has something to answer for, but saying it's a massive problem is sticking your head in the sand to everything else that is stopping people from using compulsion creatively and not destructively.

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1 hour ago, 250swb said:

You cant stop compulsive behaviour because if the person has a compulsive nature they will find an outlet for it one way or another.

You really claim you've watched the video? At no point during the video is the discussion about stopping compulsive behaviour. It's about stopping predatory tactics to exploit compulsive behaviour.

 

1 hour ago, 250swb said:

Saying the gaming industry tempts them is as stupid as it's obverse in that nothing else would tempt them.

What kind of drugs do I have to take to arrive at this conclusion? The gaming industry is tempting them (simple fact) and making the claim that it somehow has to be mutually exclusive with the absence of temptation elsewhere is mental contortionism on a level that would earn you the Golden Clown in Monte Carlo. Murder isn't unproblematic just because everything dies at some point anyway ...

 

1 hour ago, 250swb said:

But the bottom line is that you seem to think compulsive behaviour is bad [...]

No, I think your reading comprehension is bad, abysmal even, because what I've been denouncing is the exploitation of compulsive behaviour.

 

1 hour ago, 250swb said:

It is regressive and idiotic to simply ban compulsive behaviour [...]

Who wants to ban compulsive behaviour?

 

1 hour ago, 250swb said:

and leave people with a void

Serious question: are you high right now? There is no call to bereft people of their humanity by turning them into biological processors speaking binary or some such ethos you're brewing up on your head right now.

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This thread is not related to gameplay.
-> Moved to "Off-Topic"

 

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