battleship secondaries rebalance sugggestion

[eatthisvr6]

imo the secondaries on battleships arnt fit for purpose and need a rebalance/buff.

i can understand the appalling range as a balance issue to give dds and cruisers a safe(ish) zone where the main guns dont track and the secondaries are out of range.

 

where the issue arises  is in suicide run dds who get to 1km and then drop all their torps which is pretty much garaunteed to ruin your day! 

i do agree they SHOULD have that option but it should also be just that, suicide.

i had 1 last night where the dd ran straight at me to within 1km and dropped 6 torps with no chance of avoidence he killed me from 90% health, i have no problem with that but i do have a problem with the secondaries doing almost no damage at all to him,

i actually killed him with a  lucky/desperate shot from the main guns. 

heres what i think would balance secondaires

 

1 dds within range for more than 2 volleys should have 80%+ of being killed (50/50 chance of getting their torp load off 1st) and most cruisers should have 40-50% chance of the same 

in short i think they should increase the (horrific) accuracy but keep the terribad range of secondaries)

cruisers and even dds getting VERY close should be absolutely annihalated instead of being able to do it with near impunity

 

[shrapnel_bait]

It's not so much the range of the secondaries on battleships that annoy the heck out of me but the appalling accuracy, even at under 1km range with the enemy ship sailing parallel to me I find most shots from my battleships secondary guns seem to hit the water around the target.

[Seinta]

Question is: Why did you let a DD get so close?

And what you are asking is a insta death area?

Secondaries are fine as they are, if you improve on your secondaries they will do wonders, if you don't ....... this thread exists.

[Wraitteli]

 

BS are ATM utterly toothless that are intimidating on their looks but that's about it. BSs main guns shoot way too slowly, accuracy is hilariously poor. Any ship that get under 6-5 km range from BS will notice its main guns shoot all over oceans. Secondary guns are for graphic effect only as I have NEVER see them to do anything purposeful on fights and I use Kongo that is tier V BS.

 

Perhaps most amusing is that some DDs  seems to know that BS condition these days so they push them-self  right next to BS and torp living hell out of them.

[Pastaiolo]

If a DD runs at you, you just turn away from him. Problem solved.

 

If he manage to get close enough so that you can't manouver, or you are in between icebergs or islands which limits your manouvers, then the fault lies in yourself and your team.

[Blue_Bug]

Question is: Why did you let a DD get so close?

And what you are asking is a insta death area?

Secondaries are fine as they are, if you improve on your secondaries they will do wonders, if you don't ....... this thread exists.

 

 

Second question : Where was your support of a CA ?

 

BB's need a escort of a CA just for these events. If you don't get a escort , stay close to an allied CA. (But look out for that he is not going places where you don't belong)

 

DD's are the main enemy of a BB. It is difficult  (as it should) for a BB to protect it self against a DD. This while the secondairy guns already most of the time kill a DD in range. This is especially the case with the captains skill where the range of the secondairies is increased with 20%.

 

 

[Historynerd]

 

BS are ATM utterly toothless that are intimidating on their looks but that's about it. BSs main guns shoot way too slowly, accuracy is hilariously poor. Any ship that get under 6-5 km range from BS will notice its main guns shoot all over oceans. Secondary guns are for graphic effect only as I have NEVER see them to do anything purposeful on fights and I use Kongo that is tier V BS.

 

Perhaps most amusing is that some DDs  seems to know that BS condition these days so they push them-self  right next to BS and torp living hell out of them.

 

In my Fuso I once managed to deal with and sink a Phoenix or Omaha first and a similarly-tiered American DD then, all alone and with them shooting torpedoes as fast as they could. How? Because they weren't too good at it, I admit, but also because I did everything I could to keep away, and to aim carefully with my main guns. And eventually I was able to get them.

 

So, BBs are not completely defenseless against DDs, even without close escort; you just have to play them right and possibly get a little luck.

 

In any case, there is a stat page in which is detailed how many ships were destroyed by the secondary guns; we can all look how much "useless" are them.

[Blue_Bug]

 

BS are ATM utterly toothless that are intimidating on their looks but that's about it. BSs main guns shoot way too slowly, accuracy is hilariously poor. Any ship that get under 6-5 km range from BS will notice its main guns shoot all over oceans. Secondary guns are for graphic effect only as I have NEVER see them to do anything purposeful on fights and I use Kongo that is tier V BS.

 

Perhaps most amusing is that some DDs  seems to know that BS condition these days so they push them-self  right next to BS and torp living hell out of them.

 

Please use BB as abbreviation of batleship. BS is an abbreviation of something totally different (beginning with Bull...).

 

I don't know where you are talking about. I use my BB's for mid range and short range too. And it is always a nice moment when the secondairies kick in.  The  accuracy of the main guns only get's better on short range. So if you hardly do any damage on mid range, I'm very curious how you are doing on long range.

 

 

[Sharana]

There are captains skills + modules to improve the range and accuracy. With them and 6-7km range Amagi and Yamato can pretty much deals tons of damage. Once my Amagi was ambushed by 2 tier 6 DDs on the icebergs and my job was only to dodge the torps, the secondaries killed them both in 15-20 sec. They are also great against cruisers, when you are close (~5km). In most cases I just take away 60% of their hp with the main guns salvo and the rest 40% are gone before the main guns are ready to fire again.

 

So on tier 6+ the secondaries are good enough, you just need to invest in them if you want from them to actually be really good. Also they are not intended to be your shield against suiciding DDs, you need CAs for that job. Also keep in mind that it's not sim and the ships are balanced to be fun for everyone. Small DDs are supposed to have very good chances to kill the BB in 1vs1, so no you are sailing mighty BB and won't own the battle, so the secondaries are fine as they are.

[NecroFlex]

 

Please use BB as abbreviation of batleship. BS is an abbreviation of something totally different (beginning with Bull...).

 

I don't know where you are talking about. I use my BB's for mid range and short range too. And it is always a nice moment when the secondairies kick in.  The  accuracy of the main guns only get's better on short range. So if you hardly do any damage on mid range, I'm very curious how you are doing on long range.

 

 

 

Man you got it wrong, BS=BattleShip....BB=BattleBi**h

anyway, the ''BBs'' are slightly underpowered in some conditions, the main guns are powerful, but the issue lies with overpen...how many times did i run into a DD with my Kongo only to fire my full salvo, hit 5 of my shots and either deal 300dmg or get lucky and actually deal 3k dmg ....and then get torped, the secondary guns are ok-ish, the accuracy is utter crap, like, i'm aiming my main guns at him when he's like 1.5km away and i see the 152mm secondaries shooting and hitting the water...idk if the AI is drunk or sth, but come on, a mile away and they shoot the water below...the 152mm secondaries...same guns that are used on Cruisers and there u have godlike accuracy, i'm not saying make every shot hit, but make most shots hit, i see more shells hitting the water than hitting the enemy ship (be it a DD or another BB), the Kongo has 14 of them, 3 actually hit and they do 200, maybe 250 dmg and the secondaries can easily get taken out with HE shells and they can't be repaired. IMO at this moment, the BBs are there to eat shots and torps while your Cruisers do dmg (yes i do hit with my Kongo, but the overpens are just...no comment...)

[MudMonkey]

I have the feeling that it is mainly the BB players that want a buff for their favorite ship class and a nerf for everything else that is bugging them. Now I say: buff DDs! They are too weak. I want bounceanium armor plating and them guns need to do more damage anyway. And concerning those secondarys, if a BB is going too close to those islands i think it would be fair if those guns are not able to fire anymore, because of...uhm...gun depression. Yes, thats it. That way it will be easier for those poor DDs to wreck it, because I dont want my precious little DD damaged.

[Zepheris_]

If a DD can get into 1km range of my BB and I have no cruisers near me then I deserve to be sunk. That said, I've managed a few kills using only secondary armaments.

 

Don't go solo, stay with other ships, teamwork helps.

[Kyono]

My Nagato has a 7km range on secondaries with all the captain skills / modules. She eats American DDs for breakfast before they can drop their torps.

[NecroFlex]

I have the feeling that it is mainly the BB players that want a buff for their favorite ship class and a nerf for everything else that is bugging them. Now I say: buff DDs! They are too weak. I want bounceanium armor plating and them guns need to do more damage anyway. And concerning those secondarys, if a BB is going too close to those islands i think it would be fair if those guns are not able to fire anymore, because of...uhm...gun depression. Yes, thats it. That way it will be easier for those poor DDs to wreck it, because I dont want my precious little DD damaged.

 

 

Are you serious (not the ''buff DDs'' but what u wrote before)...i like both BBs and Criusers, i don't like DDs cause they don't fit my play stile, also, i said the secondaries need a bit of an accuracy buff, either that or BBs need a dmg overhaul, in a game i hit an average of 40-50 shots (Kongo), depending on the game, length and how far they are and most of those shots that hit overpen and deal 300 dmg, i do get some lucky 3k dmg shots and sometimes if RNG is on my side i get citadel hits (11k dmg), but mostly overpens, i can shoot it in the gun, hull front/mid/rear, facing forward, backwards or side, it will mostly overpen (unless i'm shooting other BBs which i can actually hit for 3k dmg :O )

 

EDIT: also it's not about getting damaged, it's about not dealing damage

[MudMonkey]

 

 

Are you serious (not the ''buff DDs'' but what u wrote before)...i like both BBs and Criusers, i don't like DDs cause they don't fit my play stile, also, i said the secondaries need a bit of an accuracy buff, either that or BBs need a dmg overhaul, in a game i hit an average of 40-50 shots (Kongo), depending on the game, length and how far they are and most of those shots that hit overpen and deal 300 dmg, i do get some lucky 3k dmg shots and sometimes if RNG is on my side i get citadel hits (11k dmg), but mostly overpens, i can shoot it in the gun, hull front/mid/rear, facing forward, backwards or side, it will mostly overpen (unless i'm shooting other BBs which i can actually hit for 3k dmg :O )

 

EDIT: also it's not about getting damaged, it's about not dealing damage

 

It is not about getting damaged? Then why buff your secondarys? They are only for very short ranged encounters. And in those you probably got whacked by an DD. Therefore you want to kill the DDs faster so you wont receive that much damage.

BBs do a lot of damage with their secondarys. And I have seen many DDs getting wrecked by them. I say those DDs dont fit you playstyle if they are attacking you. Thats why I can only see this in your post:

[NecroFlex]

 

It is not about getting damaged? Then why buff your secondarys? They are only for very short ranged encounters. And in those you probably got whacked by an DD. Therefore you want to kill the DDs faster so you wont receive that much damage.

BBs do a lot of damage with their secondarys. And I have seen many DDs getting wrecked by them. I say those DDs dont fit you playstyle if they are attacking you. Thats why I can only see this in your post:

 

Did you know, there's a difference between getting damaged and getting instakilled?

TIL!!!! if you say BBs are a bit underpowered, ppl start crying but if they say DDs are underpowered it's ok...oh wait, they aren't, they are above average

 

EDIT: forgot to say, DDs have this thing called smoke, which makes them almost undetectable and their torps are invis until it's too late, even if you try to avoid the smoke, the torps will still hunt you down and kill you since the DD is invis in there and can get into position and send torps

[MudMonkey]

 

Did you know, there's a difference between getting damaged and getting instakilled?

TIL!!!! if you say BBs are a bit underpowered, ppl start crying but if they say DDs are underpowered it's ok...oh wait, they aren't, they are above average

 

If you want to tell me, that I say that DDs are underpowered, you are wrong. They are kinda ok. Might be different in high tier games, but the highest tier DD i have is tier 6. Cant tell you about that.

Did you know that you can get instakilled in a DD, too? And did you know how often that happens? And if it happens its not because of a very rare hit into the magazines. If you want to survive a game in a DD you have to be good or lucky. Not so much with BBs. Obviously your "TIL" is wrong because you dont understand anything at all. I just say paper, stone scissors and game concept. What you want is and op BB so you dont have to take care of your surroundings like everybody else has to.

[NecroFlex]

 

If you want to tell me, that I say that DDs are underpowered, you are wrong. They are kinda ok. Might be different in high tier games, but the highest tier DD i have is tier 6. Cant tell you about that.

Did you know that you can get instakilled in a DD, too? And did you know how often that happens? And if it happens its not because of a very rare hit into the magazines. If you want to survive a game in a DD you have to be good or lucky. Not so much with BBs. Obviously your "TIL" is wrong because you dont understand anything at all. I just say paper, stone scissors and game concept. What you want is and op BB so you dont have to take care of your surroundings like everybody else has to.

 

you're pathetic...

but i don't want to argue with a rudimentary single-cell organism like you anymore, just not worth it

cause by your logic, we should buff DDs and nerf BBs, since BBs do WAAAAY too much overpe...i mean damage, yeah..damage...sure...

i've played dessies, u drive around, see an enemy BB, start going at it (if it's alone), bait shots, maybe get hit by a whooping 300 dmg and then start smoking it up, drop torps, ?????, profit

it's not THAT hard, only skill u need is a brain cell for left and a brain cell for right, that's about it

for BBs, u need to think where to hit the enemy to not overpen him and...well...get rekt cause of it, i always look at my surroundings, mostly cause i see a dessie nearby and look there, no smoke, no torps, then i focus back on shooting another enemy, suddenly torps that haven't been there suddenly appear out of thin air ^^

[MudMonkey]

I am pathetic because you cant understand the game concept? And now you start with calling me names? Wohooo, I am so sad now. Btw, I never said, that i want DDs buffed. Dont lay words into my mouth. You are the only one here who wants a buff for his precious ship class.

Just looked at your account. You have 4 games in PVP. Not even one in a DD. Most of your games are against Bots!1!!11! And of those only 2 were in DDs.....

So dont tell me you know ANYTHING about DDs or CVs.

 

[NecroFlex]

>Don't understand the game concept

>Playing against bots

>MFW

 

U do know those 2 things make sense right? but your tiny little brain can't comprehend that. 

 Btw, I never said, that i want DDs buffed.

Now I say: buff DDs! They are too weak. I want bounceanium armor plating and them guns need to do more damage anyway. And concerning those secondarys, if a BB is going too close to those islands i think it would be fair if those guns are not able to fire anymore, because of...uhm...gun depression. Yes, thats it. That way it will be easier for those poor DDs to wreck it, because I dont want my precious little DD damaged.

Yeah, sry, my bad, u never said it

 Dont lay words into my mouth. You are the only one here who wants a buff for his precious ship class.

 

Hey, i'm not laying anything in your mouth, that's your dad's job, don't involve me in your..erm..rituals

also, i never said i WANTED BBs buffed, i just replied to OP giving my thoughts which are valid, but wouldn't mind some actual damage against DDs, not overpens all over the place and i never said BBs are my precious ship class, i like CRs better, that's why i bought the Yubari...

Just looked at your account. You have 4 games in PVP. Not even one in a DD. Most of your games are against Bots!1!!11! And of those only 2 were in DDs.....

So dont tell me you know ANYTHING about DDs or CVs.

Sooooo, u want me to get a DD, have no experience whatsoever and just jump into a random battle? Great thinking man, best...that's why i stopped playing PvP, there u get players who think like u and don't even try the ship in co-op but just jump into PvP and get rekt blaming the team (or wreck their own team with torps). Also, u get more ppl who torp you intentionally, i never got that in co-op only got torped 2-3 times cause teammate didn't look before shooting, but meh, on the other hand, first PvP battle i've been in was in the open sea map (which is cancer and i got it 2 or 3 times out of those 4 battles) and the first thing i see are my ally torps going right at me at the start of the game, get hit by 3 i think and then get rekt by an enemy who i would have killed otherwise...but hey, don't want to trigger your feminazi instincts.

I'm not even telling you ANYTHING about CVs...where did u get that, wtf, go see a mental institution, you need a checkup.

And the 2 games i played in the DDs were enough to get first impressions, drop smoke and blaze the enemy.

 

P.S. Early tier bots are more challenging than PvP

[Magni56]

Ahahaha, what? I'd say you need to start playing some DDs. Because let me tell you about secondaries. Secondaries are goddamn harsh even on ships like the Kongo and Fuso, where you will lose half your health or more to get into point-blank range on an open run. And they're downright terrifying on later BBs - a Nagato, even moreso with upgraded secondaries is already flat-out suicide to charge at. You torp it from long range or from ambushes or the secondaries will chew you into pieces.

 

I've been running the Nagato with upgrades and done tens of thousands of damage with the secondaries in some games. They chew up cruisers scarily fast, let alone what hapens to poor little tincans that pop up anywhere near you.

 

 

P.S. Early tier bots are more challenging than PvP

 

 

 That you actually seriously just claimed this makes literally everything you try to argue invalid and disqualifies you totally from making any argument pertaining the game. Try to get some actual experience before shooting off your mouth next time.

[Battledragon]

I would really like to see a buff to secondary accuracy. the number of times I've  seen a destroyer jump out from behind an island and litrally run between two battleships to make his torpedo run, and the combined firepower of TWO battleship's secondaries won't kill him before he launches..  As for cruisers.  I always try to stick with them when I drive BB but you depend on them not racing away and leaving you behind, or turning round and running away if they see an enemy battleship.  You cannot rely on you team mates in random battles.  battleship secondaries need buffing.  I'm not demanding instant death to all destroyers in range but if they close to 1-2 km before launching they should take more than light damage.  The entire POINT of secondaries was to stop destroyers getting within knife range and force them to launch 4-5km out.  as is they're so useless destroyers can come as close as they like and have all the time in the world to fire on you. and half the time if there is a cruiser there with you he'll ignore it to chase carriers.

[eatthisvr6]

I would really like to see a buff to secondary accuracy. the number of times I've  seen a destroyer jump out from behind an island and litrally run between two battleships to make his torpedo run, and the combined firepower of TWO battleship's secondaries won't kill him before he launches..  As for cruisers.  I always try to stick with them when I drive BB but you depend on them not racing away and leaving you behind, or turning round and running away if they see an enemy battleship.  You cannot rely on you team mates in random battles.  battleship secondaries need buffing.  I'm not demanding instant death to all destroyers in range but if they close to 1-2 km before launching they should take more than light damage.  The entire POINT of secondaries was to stop destroyers getting within knife range and force them to launch 4-5km out.  as is they're so useless destroyers can come as close as they like and have all the time in the world to fire on you. and half the time if there is a cruiser there with you he'll ignore it to chase carriers.

 

1st sensible post in the entire thread apart from mine! 

[dan_can]

Play DDs more and than please tell me again that sec. guns are too weak. Got half of my HP ripped away by 1 hit of a BB sec gun  2 days ago.  Do I run to the forums demanding a nerf ?

 

Even sec guns on a carrier can kill a DD if you come too close and kill it not fast enough.

 

 

[Maglor_the_rum]

I would really like to see a buff to secondary accuracy. the number of times I've  seen a destroyer jump out from behind an island and litrally run between two battleships to make his torpedo run, and the combined firepower of TWO battleship's secondaries won't kill him before he launches..  As for cruisers.  I always try to stick with them when I drive BB but you depend on them not racing away and leaving you behind, or turning round and running away if they see an enemy battleship.  You cannot rely on you team mates in random battles.  battleship secondaries need buffing.  I'm not demanding instant death to all destroyers in range but if they close to 1-2 km before launching they should take more than light damage.  The entire POINT of secondaries was to stop destroyers getting within knife range and force them to launch 4-5km out.  as is they're so useless destroyers can come as close as they like and have all the time in the world to fire on you. and half the time if there is a cruiser there with you he'll ignore it to chase carriers.

 

1 What are you doing near a island? a part giving a DD a friendly cover from your secondaries? and tampering with your already limited manovrability? Asking for a CV to send in his Torpedo bombers?

 

2 This is even for a DD with a cover a near as hell suicide run, but you deserved every torpedo. In the smoke and in the island live monsters, stay away, a DD can't come near a BB in open sea becose the secondaries can kill him easily.

 

3 Where was your CA or DD escort? you aren't suppose to "go in" if someone don't spot the area before, even some CV planes.