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When does this quest become banging ones head against a the wall?

 

 

Cruisers, feelings to those warm and cool depending on my mood at any given time, but DD's, most definitely, this is major ongoing WIP, especially as I have now decided to grind the US line of DD's, this over the UK or German ones, and yes even the vaunted IJN ones, probably the very highest skill ships in the game.

 

I could no master LT's in WoT's but in here I do plan to master them, do I need a stronger wall?:Smile_teethhappy:

 

 

 

 

Slightly related, in all your humble opinions, which are the best in game DD' and of what nation?

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For me the US destroyers are very good at winning games. Bit old and boring, but very good. Funniest DDs are russians however, with Kiev as a highlight. Almost as fun as Khabarovsk was

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T-61, KIDD, GROZ and LO-YANG for me.  The Fetcher is the next one on my list. The Harra is quite good too if your a cruiser player. 

 

3 of which have gimmicks to shine.  The Groz is so comfortable to sail and you never feel out-gunned.  Just play to her strengths (Medium range fighting).  It's prob the best in this meta to be honest as you always manage to get away with Speed boost and Heal.

 

However, the frustrating thing is when even taking all the caps and killing 3 DD's on the way, your team STILL ends up losing and throwing it away. 

 

Just happened on the last game. :cap_tea:

 

Makes you feel it's all pointless to be honest. If your team are muppets, then whatever you do, it's for nothing anyway.  All about MM.

 

CV's used to be the hardest to master, now it's the DD's. 

 

Anyone here use the LM for the Groz? Worth it?

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13 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

Anyone here use the LM for the Groz? Worth it?

Now on 0.8.5 I think I'll continue grinding it.

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Just now, B0Tato said:

Now on 0.8.5 I think I'll continue grinding it.

 

I was never a DD man.  But I have a select few DD I sail and the Groz is one of them.  The most muti-tool DD there is IMHO.  Used to be the Gearing, but lack of Defensive AA (if he doesn't use it), heal and flatter arcs from medium range is just better IMHO.

 

Only way the gearing will come out on top if it's an ambush, the Groz doesn't heal and it gets to use all his guns within 5-6km.  That's what I've noticed anyway. 

 

Gearing it still a good ship, In CB more so due to the long smoke and longer torps, but randoms with CV's around?  yeah, I keep the Groz thanks. 

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24 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

Anyone here use the LM for the Groz? Worth it?

I tried it for a bit, but found the AA module was more useful with all the CVs running around, plus the increase in torp reload time hurt; it's quite possible that a) I didn't give it long enough, and b) I'm not skilled enough to get the most out of it, of course.

 

My feeling is that it would be worthwhile taking for non-CV modes, and if you want to place a much greater emphasis on the guns, rather than as an all-rounder.

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11 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

 

I was never a DD man.  But I have a select few DD I sail and the Groz is one of them.  The most muti-tool DD there is IMHO.  Used to be the Gearing, but lack of Defensive AA (if he doesn't use it), heal and flatter arcs from medium range is just better IMHO.

 

Only way the gearing will come out on top if it's an ambush, the Groz doesn't heal and it gets to use all his guns within 5-6km.  That's what I've noticed anyway. 

 

Gearing it still a good ship, In CB more so due to the long smoke and longer torps, but randoms with CV's around?  yeah, I keep the Groz thanks. 

Grozovoi is one of the few ships I play and were I consider the unique upgrade worth using. Moskva is another one, however I haven't decided yet, if I like the upgrade that much.

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1 hour ago, NoobySkooby said:

Slightly related, in all your humble opinions, which are the best in game DD' and of what nation?

As a big DD enthusiast, I (predictably) have a few nominations - in no particular order:

  • Kidd: the heal is really nice to have, and you're getting a Fletcher at T8 (kind of), although the single torp launcher requires you to play more of a support role much of the time. The AA is, of course, pretty decent so you'll hold up well against CVs much of the time.
  • T-61 and/or Z-39: similar beasts, in my view, with the rather glorious smoke/hydro combination that makes Loyang so good. Besides that, they're decent hybrids and have good enough AA to fend off at least some CV attacks. Z-39 gets access to concealment mod too, although they're both not the sneakiest ships around (not disastrous though). Be mindful that Z-39 has Big Guns (for a DD), so you won't get the BFT bonus on them.
  • Loyang: not exactly new, but the smoke/ridiculous hydro is still very potent (unless you face someone who practiced a lot in competitive modes against them); in other respects, she's C-hull Benson, so an excellent all-rounder. You have two torp options too - the usual 9.2 km American efforts, or the 6.7 km YOLO option - faster, more damage, but a lot riskier to use. AA is reasonable for a DD.
  • Groz: one of my favourite ships in the game of any type. The combination of good dakka, usable torps, heal, and a positively naughty turn of speed make her great fun to play. Good AA, combined with DefAA can really make a lot of CVs regret their decisions.
  • Gearing: holds up against CVs, decent guns, and the 16 km reach of her torps makes her a lot more comfortable to play in a heavy CV/radar environment; lacks a heal, alas, but she'd be OP if she had one.
  • Sims: kind of a T7 Gearing, if built with an eye to AA; the recent torp buff made her fish a lot more usable.

If I were to suggest one nation to play, I would probably go with the US (the same as earlier posters), as they have a nice combination of guns and torps (stealth torp window from T7 onwards), and respectable AA for DDs (you get DefAA from T5, although not on all hulls, and have to give up a turret in some cases); they aren't the stealthiest of ships, but with all the CVs around lately, who cares? American smoke is pretty much god-tier too, so you can make yourself useful screening your allies (and hiding from enemies, until they fire up the radar). One other nice aspect of the US line is that pretty much the same captain skills work for all the ships, so there isn't much need for weird builds anywhere (although you can get a bit frisky with Gearing, depending on whether you want to focus on dakka or torps).

 

Besides the US, the KM line is worthwhile, as you get the smoke/hydro combination at the business end of the tree, as well as tolerable AA. They tend to be reasonably robust, albeit at the cost of some stealth. The PA DDs are quite interesting and varied (although most certainly not as a first line): DWT, and the radar option from T8 make them unlike other trees. The 'US' ships have okay AA too, but bear in mind that the T10 has been over-nerfed (although see recent ST announcement), so you don't have much of an 'end-tree' target to go for.

 

You'll note that my list doesn't include Harekaze: this isn't because she isn't good (she's excellent), but rather because she's no longer available. I've also avoided anything that doesn't do well in the face of CVs (as much as any DD can - you are going to get scragged by any serious CV player). I'm assuming at least some focus on AA, both in terms of modules and captain skills. Before the rework, I would have focused a lot more on stealthier designs, but the prevalence of CVs has rendered that aspect moot much of the time; a lot of the better options now are those that are less stealthy, as they were balanced around being easier to spot, so they've lost less with all the planes about.

 

All very much IMO, of course, and I'm not even within waving distance of being a good player...

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1 hour ago, Verblonde said:

As a big DD enthusiast, I (predictably) have a few nominations - in no particular order:

  • Kidd: the heal is really nice to have, and you're getting a Fletcher at T8 (kind of), although the single torp launcher requires you to play more of a support role much of the time. The AA is, of course, pretty decent so you'll hold up well against CVs much of the time.
  • T-61 and/or Z-39: similar beasts, in my view, with the rather glorious smoke/hydro combination that makes Loyang so good. Besides that, they're decent hybrids and have good enough AA to fend off at least some CV attacks. Z-39 gets access to concealment mod too, although they're both not the sneakiest ships around (not disastrous though). Be mindful that Z-39 has Big Guns (for a DD), so you won't get the BFT bonus on them.
  • Loyang: not exactly new, but the smoke/ridiculous hydro is still very potent (unless you face someone who practiced a lot in competitive modes against them); in other respects, she's C-hull Benson, so an excellent all-rounder. You have two torp options too - the usual 9.2 km American efforts, or the 6.7 km YOLO option - faster, more damage, but a lot riskier to use. AA is reasonable for a DD.
  • Groz: one of my favourite ships in the game of any type. The combination of good dakka, usable torps, heal, and a positively naughty turn of speed make her great fun to play. Good AA, combined with DefAA can really make a lot of CVs regret their decisions.
  • Gearing: holds up against CVs, decent guns, and the 16 km reach of her torps makes her a lot more comfortable to play in a heavy CV/radar environment; lacks a heal, alas, but she'd be OP if she had one.
  • Sims: kind of a T7 Gearing, if built with an eye to AA; the recent torp buff made her fish a lot more usable.

If I were to suggest one nation to play, I would probably go with the US (the same as earlier posters), as they have a nice combination of guns and torps (stealth torp window from T7 onwards), and respectable AA for DDs (you get DefAA from T5, although not on all hulls, and have to give up a turret in some cases); they aren't the stealthiest of ships, but with all the CVs around lately, who cares? American smoke is pretty much god-tier too, so you can make yourself useful screening your allies (and hiding from enemies, until they fire up the radar). One other nice aspect of the US line is that pretty much the same captain skills work for all the ships, so there isn't much need for weird builds anywhere (although you can get a bit frisky with Gearing, depending on whether you want to focus on dakka or torps).

 

Besides the US, the KM line is worthwhile, as you get the smoke/hydro combination at the business end of the tree, as well as tolerable AA. They tend to be reasonably robust, albeit at the cost of some stealth. The PA DDs are quite interesting and varied (although most certainly not as a first line): DWT, and the radar option from T8 make them unlike other trees. The 'US' ships have okay AA too, but bear in mind that the T10 has been over-nerfed (although see recent ST announcement), so you don't have much of an 'end-tree' target to go for.

 

You'll note that my list doesn't include Harekaze: this isn't because she isn't good (she's excellent), but rather because she's no longer available. I've also avoided anything that doesn't do well in the face of CVs (as much as any DD can - you are going to get scragged by any serious CV player). I'm assuming at least some focus on AA, both in terms of modules and captain skills. Before the rework, I would have focused a lot more on stealthier designs, but the prevalence of CVs has rendered that aspect moot much of the time; a lot of the better options now are those that are less stealthy, as they were balanced around being easier to spot, so they've lost less with all the planes about.

 

All very much IMO, of course, and I'm not even within waving distance of being a good player...

Ha ha, I have divisioned with you, you do a hell of a lot better than me fella, no one mentions the RN destroyers then,lack of speed boost on them, and well they are British, sort of puts me off, shame gearing does not have a heal, she is the obvious one which will keep my Haragumo company at that tier, lol

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13 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

Ha ha, I have divisioned with you, you do a hell of a lot better than me fella, no one mentions the RN destroyers then,lack of speed boost on them, and well they are British, sort of puts me off, shame gearing does not have a heal, she is the obvious one which will keep my Haragumo company at that tier, lol

Isn’t the hydro the RN DDs have more useful than speed boost?

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31 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

no one mentions the RN destroyers then

I like them a lot (although I'm not great with them); the main reasons I didn't put them in my earlier post were that they suffer a bit more from CVs (although the degree varies a bit), and they aren't the best candidates for one's first line of DDs - my feeling is that the skill-set required to get the most from them is more usefully acquired elsewhere first.

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Anshan is good with her normal torps and built - in +100% free xp. She is cheap, and has excellent russian guns too.

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Dear @NoobySkooby

 

If you want to learn DD the first thing you need to learn is how not to be seen.

I will agree with most of what the above friends said, however, before you jump to T6 I would suggest you do a bit of ground work.

 

Get the Isokaze and learn how to position yourself, how to set up a good torp salvo and above all how NOT TO BE SEEN.

The Isokaze is a good teacher. By going to higher tiers you will not learn but instead you will get frustrated. I strongly advise to start with torpedo boats rather than gun boats. A gun boat will be exposed to more dangers than a torpedo boat. 

 

That is what I believe would work best for you.

 

Regards

Saltface

 

P.S. The advise given to me when I wanted to learn DD play is in the following thread. It is a really good read

 

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2 hours ago, urr027 said:

Isn’t the hydro the RN DDs have more useful than speed boost?

When you're being chased down by a pair of Derpitz's and you're in a Lightning and you are last man standing, you will REALLY want the speed boost...

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7 hours ago, NoobySkooby said:

 

I could no master LT's in WoT's but in here I do plan to master them, do I need a stronger wall?:Smile_teethhappy:

 

Same here, light tanks and DD's seem to be reserved for the people who think surviving for five minutes is a win. But I know that isn't entirely true and DD's are something that will be on my own radar for improvement in the near future.

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7 hours ago, NoobySkooby said:

Slightly related, in all your humble opinions, which are the best in game DDs and of what nation?

In my not at all biased opinion - Minekaze of the IJN and Nicholas of the USN.

 

I'm not saying so just because they are my most played ships by a huge margin. I believe that tier 5 is where the relative power of DDs is at its peak. Higher tier DDs of course get stronger, but the opposition gets stronger still. Tier 6 and 7 suffer badly from being outspotted by both lower and higher tier DDs, and all high tier DDs have to deal with radar and planes. At tier 5 all of these dangers are much less significant, not least because lower tier ships don't have the accuracy to take advantage of carrier spotting the way higher tier ships can.

 

Isokaze and Clemson are also great, and they have protected matchmaking too. You want to learn how to play DDs, play them.

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Lightning is fantastic - great guns, good torps, 5.5 km detection, good aa if needed and 7 smokes. And 360 degree rear turret. Brilliant ship - even a potato like me has a 59% WR in it.

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1 hour ago, 250swb said:

surviving for five minutes is a win

DD rule No. 1: Don't die

DD rule No. 2: Read rule No. 1

 

Early game you have to contest caps (with rule No. 1 in mind) and spot for your team. OFC targets of opportunity are welcome.

Mid game you have either to defend a flank and delay the push of the reds, or help your own team push (with rule No. 1 in mind)

Late game is where you shine and win the game for your team. Stay alive and win the games for your team. The team that has DDs alive late match usually wins.

 

Always observe rule No. 1

 

Here is my last battle. Just see why I say stay alive.

20190701_000108_PJSD025-True-Kamikaze_46_Estuary.wowsreplay

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39 minutes ago, Saltface said:

DD rule No. 1: Don't die

DD rule No. 2: Read rule No. 1

Yup, the same thing goes for the rest of the team. I always tell 'em:

- Protect our DDs, shoot at whatever is threatening them;

- kill the enemy DDs (it is like sawing their legs off and poking their eyes out).

 

39 minutes ago, Saltface said:

Early game you have to contest caps (with rule No. 1 in mind) and spot for your team. OFC targets of opportunity are welcome.

Mid game you have either to defend a flank and delay the push of the reds, or help your own team push (with rule No. 1 in mind)

Late game is where you shine and win the game for your team. Stay alive and win the games for your team. The team that has DDs alive late match usually wins.

DDs are better at finishing off anything than BBs, CA/CL or even CVs. 

If your DD is alive at the end of the game (and preferably has more than 10HP...) and the enemy DDs are dead,

then most likely you will win the game by capping or by the DD torping all enemy ships from stealth.

 

 

 

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There are quite a lot of differences between different DD's. Not just individual ships but also nations. Mostly US DD's are gunboats but some of them also have decent torpedoes. You would need to figure out if you are more of brawling knife fighter type of gunboat player, DD hunter, or a stealthy scout that shoots out wave after wave of torpedoes that are so easy to detect most of your targets find it laughably easy to dodge them.

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1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

 

DDs are better at finishing off anything than BBs, CA/CL or even CVs. 

If your DD is alive at the end of the game (and preferably has more than 10HP...) and the enemy DDs are dead,

then most likely you will win the game by capping or by the DD torping all enemy ships from stealth.

 

 

 

 

I remembered having a battle once , where i had less than 10 HP like after 6 min from starting. Was a real " adrenaline rush " . Thats why i begun slowly to play DD more and more before the rework.

 

662048_shot-18_10_22_14_33_04-0172.thumb.jpg.5a494de8fa09e5951c9cb8eff1e0a025.jpg

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Saltface said:

DD rule No. 1: Don't die

DD rule No. 2: Read rule No. 1

 

Early game you have to contest caps (with rule No. 1 in mind) and spot for your team. OFC targets of opportunity are welcome.

Mid game you have either to defend a flank and delay the push of the reds, or help your own team push (with rule No. 1 in mind)

Late game is where you shine and win the game for your team. Stay alive and win the games for your team. The team that has DDs alive late match usually wins.

 

Always observe rule No. 1

 

Here is my last battle. Just see why I say stay alive.

20190701_000108_PJSD025-True-Kamikaze_46_Estuary.wowsreplay

Hell you beat me to it, you seem like the EL2Zer (wish he would get a proper name so I could spell it right, lol) of DD's and I was going to ask for a replay, lol

 

 

Off to the study room right now, many thanks:cap_like:

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Well played in that last game @Saltface, feel like I learned something.

 

 

So far getting nowhere near the damage you did, so still doing plenty wrong, but he next question is, Maps without caps? What to do as, this throws me in any ship, at least with caps you have a goal to aim for.

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