reason to take dcff over other t1 skill?

[SkollUlfr]

i cant think of one. used to be useful as spotting and for having a fighter each side of your ship, now... the skill seems like complete scrap.

 

anyone got a scenario where this would be useful? even on a full aa build i feel like pt or pm would still be better choices.

[22cm]

You mean the +1 fighter skill? 

Is the best cost/effect AA skill, for 1 point it will increase the number of your fighters with 33 or 25%. 

 

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

When it's a ship where you don't need to switch ammo type very often or quickly, and have a single skill point left.

 

Spotter planes as such are absolutely useful in certain situations, like smoke shooting, or Zao HE spamming from the flank in Clan Battles. This skill wil generally make the utility more resilient because two planes need to be shot down before you lose the benefit.

 

 I don't have it in a single build currently though, which could also have something to do with me avoiding high tier gameplay as much as possible except for clan battles.

 

 

[SkollUlfr]

37 minutes ago, 22cm said:

 

Is the best cost/effect AA skill, for 1 point it will increase the number of your fighters with 33 or 25%. 

thats best case scenario.

its as easily avoided as regular cat fighter since its easy to attack around it or just wait one minute for the fighter to run out.

 

19 minutes ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

 

 I don't have it in a single build currently though, which could also have something to do with me avoiding high tier gameplay as much as possible except for clan battles.

yea, past t7 the mm is just cancerous. and also reflects my seeing no utility for this skill. for a fighter not a spotter, it seems completly wasted.

[22cm]

1 minute ago, SkollUlfr said:

thats best case scenario.

its as easily avoided as regular cat fighter since its easy to attack around it or just wait one minute for the fighter to run out.

I alternate it with the def AA, because the carrier can use another squadron faster than your def AA cooldown, and never use them together unless my ship is really low on HP and/or carier can oneshot me (AP bombers). 

[Spunyarn]

3 hours ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

Spotter planes as such are absolutely useful in certain situations, like smoke shooting, or Zao HE spamming from the flank in Clan Battles. This skill wil generally make the utility more resilient because two planes need to be shot down before you lose the benefit.

 

The skill only works with catapult fighters rather than with those and spotter planes, so you would still only have one spotter.

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Vor 1 Stunde, Johmie sagte:

The skill only works with catapult fighters

One more reason to hate this botched carrier rework.

[Odo_Toothless]

Previously +1 plane (100% more) meaned something. Now they all are doing almost nothing. Especially when uptiered. Deployed plenty of them from Scharnhorst lately vs VIII, and 0-1/game planes shot down. So this perk is useless, as it is now.

[DasTongle]

The Planes lost their ability to spot torpedoes and if you deploy them correctly they still hammer down enough of the enemy planes even without the second set of fighters.

[E4GLEyE]

I really wish the whole fighter thing would face a rework... They aggro way too slow and can be left in the dust by the attacked planes (for example GZ) so even when I play as a CV and deploy them over a friendly who is already getting pounded, while my planes descend and start circling the enemy planes are already gone and likely wont return for that 1 minute while the CAP is out... Then you get bashed and reported for not helping friendlies vs the other CV... Gosh I miss my pre rework Saipan 3-1 loadout full air superiority spotting 3 cap points at the same time and hosing down enemy planes when they go in for an attack run...

[WashedandDeceased]

I can't really see why one would pick the extra fighter over, say, Priority target 

Still, I have it on my Katori just for the Lolz. Two fighters vs T4 CVs can occasionally help 

[KillStealBoss]

16 hours ago, 22cm said:

You mean the +1 fighter skill? 

Is the best cost/effect AA skill, for 1 point it will increase the number of your fighters with 33 or 25%. 

 

Ah so it's adding a fighter into the fighter squad you already launch? I thought it should launch 2 fighter squads so I did take it off from some ships. It seems to be useful on Musashi I guess. 

[lup3s]

Correct me if I'm wrong; I think your squadron of catapult fighters will only shoot as many bombers as their are fighters in the squadron (e.g. squadron of 3 will down at most 3 bombers).

So, with this perk, you get 1 extra catapult fighter per squadron, so (potentially) 1 extra bomber shot down?

[Cambera_1]

1 hour ago, lup3s said:

Correct me if I'm wrong; I think your squadron of catapult fighters will only shoot as many bombers as their are fighters in the squadron (e.g. squadron of 3 will down at most 3 bombers).

So, with this perk, you get 1 extra catapult fighter per squadron, so (potentially) 1 extra bomber shot down?

That is correct.

 

Provided that they are launched early enough to intercept the bombers.

As CV I see the fighters launching as I drop and I am out before they can intercept. 

[RAHJAILARI]

20 hours ago, SkollUlfr said:

i cant think of one. used to be useful as spotting and for having a fighter each side of your ship, now... the skill seems like complete scrap.

 

anyone got a scenario where this would be useful? even on a full aa build i feel like pt or pm would still be better choices.

Hmm, yes - A good question. I have taken it for all my 203mm Japanese Cruiser Commanders (Furutaka, Aoba, Myoko, Atago, Ibuki) to buff their AA a bit further, because IJN AA tends to be quite underwhelming on its own (Yes even with DefAA and especially, when uptiered by a CV). So what I usually do is to take the DefAA + DCFF (with PREMIUM Catapult Fighter consumable this gives you 2 extra fighters, which can be counted on to down 2 more enemy planes each) and then use the consumables alternatively. In practice this gives me double the amount of  AA-buff consumables when compared to just having DefAA by itself. Also, if ever in a game with multiple CV's and under attack by 2 or 3 squadrons at the same time, using both these consumables simultaneously hugely helps in trying to survive the maelstrom of incoming torps, missiles and bombs. But yeah, just like any other skills, it depends on how you use your ship. For purebred AA build it is an ideal choice tho.

 

[elblancogringo]

12 hours ago, Odo_Toothless said:

Previously +1 plane (100% more) meaned something. Now they all are doing almost nothing. Especially when uptiered. Deployed plenty of them from Scharnhorst lately vs VIII, and 0-1/game planes shot down. So this perk is useless, as it is now.

How is it useless?

Catapult fighters give you inevitable plane kills if a CV attacks you while they're in the air. The number of fighters being correlated to the number of CV planes kills, this is not only useful, it is the best AA mechanic of the game, better than DefAA.

[Odo_Toothless]

15 minutes ago, elblancogringo said:

Catapult fighters give you inevitable plane kills if a CV attacks you while they're in the air

From my latest 27 games in Scharnhorstn, having SI and plenty of them, I had games vs VIII tier CV-s, where they killed 0 planes. At most I saw 5 of them vs VI. Mayby we are playing another games then ? Buffing something which is not working, seems uselless.

 

Before You had +100% more planes which could spot torps, thay forced enemy into panick mode, so they worked like def AA and you could had 2 spotters too. Now 33% more of them, is just a joke. Waste of 1 point.

 

Anyway before rework AA specced Scharn (not talking about Gneis) with manual AA, would just shred all VI tiers and kills many VIII, so I was not afraid, having 20-30 kills after the game. Is it posssible now ? Have You can 95% immunity to at least VI tier. I don't think so.

[NothingButTheRain]

1 hour ago, Odo_Toothless said:

From my latest 27 games in Scharnhorstn, having SI and plenty of them, I had games vs VIII tier CV-s, where they killed 0 planes. At most I saw 5 of them vs VI. Mayby we are playing another games then ? Buffing something which is not working, seems uselless.

 

Before You had +100% more planes which could spot torps, thay forced enemy into panick mode, so they worked like def AA and you could had 2 spotters too. Now 33% more of them, is just a joke. Waste of 1 point.

 

Anyway before rework AA specced Scharn (not talking about Gneis) with manual AA, would just shred all VI tiers and kills many VIII, so I was not afraid, having 20-30 kills after the game. Is it posssible now ? Have You can 95% immunity to at least VI tier. I don't think so.

Perhaps this skill could be made more useful if it were to for example also increase the duration by 20% or so?

 

And the reason why I think it may be the 'best' AA skill right now is more to do with how mediocre the other AA skills have become compared to how much points they cost since the rework was introduced.

[elblancogringo]

3 hours ago, Odo_Toothless said:

From my latest 27 games in Scharnhorstn, having SI and plenty of them, I had games vs VIII tier CV-s, where they killed 0 planes. At most I saw 5 of them vs VI. Mayby we are playing another games then ? Buffing something which is not working, seems uselless.

If the CV doesn't stay in the fighters area then of course they won't destroy CV planes. If the CV commits to the attack while your fighters are in the air there is no way he won't suffer losses. The only way I see is that you're too close from an enemy ship, his AA will instantly shred your fighters, as they now have a ridiculously small amount of HP to prevent them from spotting a ship for an extended period of time.

So I actually feel that yes you're not playing the same game. Catapult fighters work well.

[HaachamaShipping]

It doubles the amount of fighters you get on Kuma. Best AA skill at T4.

[Odo_Toothless]

2 hours ago, elblancogringo said:

If the CV doesn't stay in the fighters area then of course they won't destroy CV planes. If the CV commits to the attack while your fighters are in the air there is no way he won't suffer losses. The only way I see is that you're too close from an enemy ship, his AA will instantly shred your fighters, as they now have a ridiculously small amount of HP to prevent them from spotting a ship for an extended period of time.

So I actually feel that yes you're not playing the same game. Catapult fighters work well.

Actually it's not working that way (kills are not quaranteed). I tested it right now in training room with a friend. Both ships VIII tier. CA had 4x3 figthers.They was deployed a liitle earlier to be ready and CV attacked CA time after time, as long planes was in the air. So CV launched multiple attacks when planes was active.

 

There was a few attacks, when fighter did nothing. they missed completely, but I did return and attacked again. In the end I lost 7 planes, he deployed 12 of them. But in real world CV could wait a little after succesfull attack, to let them down or just change a target without them. So let's assume they have 50% efficiency in the best scenenario, that CV is not changing targets and they are wasted.  Then +1 plane more perk would give us 2 killed plane/game. Is it worth a 1 point skill ? I don't think so.

 

But in my real games i was solo vs CV, she attacked no matter what and I had 0-1 kills per game from planes. Just VII tier did any real kills to VIII. Why ? I don't know. But it was game after game. Build your commanders as You want, for me this perk is a nonsense.