z-52 unsung heroes

[gyrostabilizer]

I am playing ranked. 7th level, 5 games win in a row. Almost always in the bottom half of the players. It seems that Z-52 game play is not exactly rewarding by the game's point system. You always do something, capturing points (very high probability, z-52 is born to capture), smoking your allies up, providing intelligence on torps and other dds via sonar. Combat wise it's hmmm... torps are just at radar range, guns are average, not really to compete with real gun fighters. Your sonar is your best friend. Sonar and smoke. But then you look into score screen and it's meh. I also play Yamato. In Yamato whole game you do like 15 salvos with almost no real effort and hey - you're hero! I kinda don't pay much attention to score screen in Z-52, anymore. You know you did really good but game ranked you second from the bottom, but win is a win. 

----

In Yamato I rarely receive compliments from fellow captains. In Z-52 I am at the bottom but every 3-4 games somebody types "thanks" and "well done". 

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So what I am complaining? While playing destroyer like z-52 is really satisfying, but not earning silver or exp for this is rather annoying. Because you understand you put 3x effort to this compared to armored BB but not getting much for it. Well... except of satisfaction for games won!

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

There are multiple topics about the flaws of the current exp system, so WG should know about it by now. Previous Ranked seasons had the same issue.

My advice is to get gut in Hakuryu and rank out.

[Beastofwar]

1 hour ago, gyrostabilizer said:

I am playing ranked. 7th level, 5 games win in a row. Almost always in the bottom half of the players. It seems that Z-52 game play is not exactly rewarding by the game's point system. You always do something, capturing points (very high probability, z-52 is born to capture), smoking your allies up, providing intelligence on torps and other dds via sonar. Combat wise it's hmmm... torps are just at radar range, guns are average, not really to compete with real gun fighters. Your sonar is your best friend. Sonar and smoke. But then you look into score screen and it's meh. I also play Yamato. In Yamato whole game you do like 15 salvos with almost no real effort and hey - you're hero! I kinda don't pay much attention to score screen in Z-52, anymore. You know you did really good but game ranked you second from the bottom, but win is a win. 

----

In Yamato I rarely receive compliments from fellow captains. In Z-52 I am at the bottom but every 3-4 games somebody types "thanks" and "well done". 

----

So what I am complaining? While playing destroyer like z-52 is really satisfying, but not earning silver or exp for this is rather annoying. Because you understand you put 3x effort to this compared to armored BB but not getting much for it. Well... except of satisfaction for games won!

 

Jack of all (DD) trades, master of none.

 

They seem to do especially well ( cooperating) with close support of a CV i have noticed. Perhaps because they do not excel in any specific DD speciality, but are resonable  at all of them, only needing some form of support ( other DD, Cruiser, CV ) to give them to edge they need.

[veslingr]

3 hours ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

There are multiple topics about the flaws of the current exp system, so WG should know about it by now. Previous Ranked seasons had the same issue.

My advice is to get gut in Hakuryu and rank out.

Lol. Or not.

 

Top 5 star savers are BBs

 

Haku is no near top in wr or dmg.

 

Choose Conq/kremlin for pure WR and DMG (star saver).

[Skyllon]

15 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

Perhaps because they do not excel in any specific DD speciality (...)

Fastest torpedo reload?

 

On top of that strongest AP + Hydro.

[DasTongle]

Without a radar the Z has the best staying power in any cap. With a Radar and CVs she rapidly loses her edge sadly.

Still saw to many Z players that went DMG farming even tried it on me in the Monty in the back....

[Taliesn]

1 hour ago, Skyllon said:

Fastest torpedo reload?

 

On top of that strongest AP + Hydro.

 

Torps are very meh though. The usefulness of having the strongest AP on a DD is debatable.

Hydro is fantastic, mind.

 

@_Teob_ go get him! 

 

[Bear__Necessities]

1 hour ago, Skyllon said:

Fastest torpedo reload?

 

On top of that strongest AP + Hydro.

You think he knows anything about top tier DD's?? Or anything useful about DD's full stop?? Optimistic you are. 

[Redcap375]

Quick question chaps, looking for another DD to grind.

 

LOVE the Groz, Harra and KIDD for different reasons.  The Groz/Kidd does well in this Rework and the Harra is just an out right damage dealer when played correctly.

 

8

Grozovoi

10

U.S.S.R.

44

65.91%

1 505

47 612

0.93

4.41

Details

Harugumo

10

Japan

58

56.9%

1 470

68 028

1

1.69

Details

44

Kidd

8

U.S.A.

94

64.89%

1 601

31 444

0.93

5.56

Details

 

Considering DD's were the last line I ground. Never thought i would but because they are so instrumental in winning games and old CV's are dead, I thought i would give them a go.  Getting fed up of DD players just dying within seconds.

 

So would you recommend the Daring or Z52 at an end result? 

 

Something that does alright against a tier 8 CV (or planes), can gunboat and give as good as it gets doing it and can cap contest.  Who would would come out on top Daring vs Z52 Brawl? Both have Hydro and both can do abit of everything.

 

Personally i think the Groz is the DD jack of all trades king. 

[_Teob_]

3 hours ago, Skyllon said:

Fastest torpedo reload?

 

On top of that strongest AP + Hydro.

 

1 hour ago, Bear_Necessities said:

You think he knows anything about top tier DD's?? Or anything useful about DD's full stop?? Optimistic you are. 

 

I mean it is true that the Z52 is in a bad spot a the moment. I keep getting involved in topics about it because I used to love it to bits. It was my favorite DD in the game (and I played over 1400 battles in it as a result). I find it upsetting that this DD is now at the bottom of the pack in terms of performance.

 

The AP suffers greatly from bounces and overpens. The DPM is not great to begin with.

And if you go for the torpedo reload, then obviously your guns aren't going to be nearly as good. On top of that, torpedo DPM is also lackluster. Fully specced, you get the same DPM as the Gearing with the 16km torpedoes. Honestly, if you're looking for a well rounded torpedo boat, the Gearing is a much better choice.

 

And the Hydro, while still being a great tool, is nowhere near as useful as it was before all the radar ships were introduced.

 

The Z52 as a package is probably the worst DD at t10 currently. And I would absolutely love it for that to not be the case.

[Redcap375]

2 minutes ago, _Teob_ said:

 

 

I mean it is true that the Z52 is in a bad spot a the moment. I keep getting involved in topics about it because I used to love it to bits. It was my favorite DD in the game (and I played over 1400 battles in it as a result). I find it upsetting that this DD is now at the bottom of the pack in terms of performance.

 

The AP suffers greatly from bounces and overpens. The DPM is not great to begin with.

And if you go for the torpedo reload, then obviously your guns aren't going to be nearly as good. On top of that, torpedo DPM is also lackluster. Fully specced, you get the same DPM as the Gearing with the 16km torpedoes. Honestly, if you're looking for a well rounded torpedo boat, the Gearing is a much better choice.

 

And the Hydro, while still being a grea

 

So maybe the Daring then instead of the Z52?

 

How come you did so well in it and now it's fell from grace?  You would have still had those bounces and low DPM as such. What changed?

[Bear__Necessities]

17 minutes ago, _Teob_ said:

 

 

I mean it is true that the Z52 is in a bad spot a the moment. I keep getting involved in topics about it because I used to love it to bits. It was my favorite DD in the game (and I played over 1400 battles in it as a result). I find it upsetting that this DD is now at the bottom of the pack in terms of performance.

 

The AP suffers greatly from bounces and overpens. The DPM is not great to begin with.

And if you go for the torpedo reload, then obviously your guns aren't going to be nearly as good. On top of that, torpedo DPM is also lackluster. Fully specced, you get the same DPM as the Gearing with the 16km torpedoes. Honestly, if you're looking for a well rounded torpedo boat, the Gearing is a much better choice.

 

And the Hydro, while still being a great tool, is nowhere near as useful as it was before all the radar ships were introduced.

 

The Z52 as a package is probably the worst DD at t10 currently. And I would absolutely love it for that to not be the case.

I'm gonna have to make a concerted effort to get back into it. I love the German DD adaptability. Maass, Z-23 and Z-46 I have very soft spots for. 

[Takru]

Have a look here for example, it's an incomplete breakdown of Ranked Battles Season 12. When you copy the table and sort by DDs and average damage, Z-52 is in the last spot, only ahead of rental DDs.

Since Ranked is basically random with better rewards, I'd argue that it is a fairly accurate depiction of the state of the ship in the game.

[Aotearas]

1 hour ago, Redcap375 said:

So would you recommend the Daring or Z52 at an end result? 

 

Something that does alright against a tier 8 CV (or planes), can gunboat and give as good as it gets doing it and can cap contest.  Who would would come out on top Daring vs Z52 Brawl? Both have hydro* and both can do abit of everything.

*Corrected.

 

Between the two the Daring is more versatile. Without DFAA neither of the two have particularily good AA to fend of a CV (even a tier VIII one) if they absolutely want you, but the Daring edges out a slight bit on AA, plus it has the heal to recuperate some of the lost HP.

Z-52 has much better hydro and can monopolize a cap by itself if there's nothing to counter it, however as soon as there's a radar involved or aircraft spotting the Z-52 after its short duration smoke ran out she's not exactly in a great spot to keep monopolizing the cap if the enemy pushes it.

 

Daring also has the concealment advantage and the sheer dpm on its guns are nasty. HE dpm is substantial if you have IFHE, but she also gets the Rn CL AP treatment with greatly improved pen angles and short fuze so any DD giving you their side is going to find out the hard way to not do that again (and a Z-52 is a whole lot of fat side for a Daring to lay into).

 

 

Currently I'd favour neither due to how a CV throws a spanner in their works (and it just so happens that most of the radar cruisers are also popular to play since they have good AA so you'll see lots of those too), but if I had to chose between those two, the Daring. The heal alone provides so much staying power which something most other DDs simply don't have.

[Taliesn]

24 minutes ago, _Teob_ said:

 

 

I mean it is true that the Z52 is in a bad spot a the moment. I keep getting involved in topics about it because I used to love it to bits. It was my favorite DD in the game (and I played over 1400 battles in it as a result). I find it upsetting that this DD is now at the bottom of the pack in terms of performance.

 

The AP suffers greatly from bounces and overpens. The DPM is not great to begin with.

And if you go for the torpedo reload, then obviously your guns aren't going to be nearly as good. On top of that, torpedo DPM is also lackluster. Fully specced, you get the same DPM as the Gearing with the 16km torpedoes. Honestly, if you're looking for a well rounded torpedo boat, the Gearing is a much better choice.

 

And the Hydro, while still being a great tool, is nowhere near as useful as it was before all the radar ships were introduced.

 

The Z52 as a package is probably the worst DD at t10 currently. And I would absolutely love it for that to not be the case.

 

There is my boy 

 

22 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

 

So maybe the Daring then instead of the Z52?

 

How come you did so well in it and now it's fell from grace?  You would have still had those bounces and low DPM as such. What changed?

 

She was once (and very briefly) top of the chain at capping. The number of radar ships keeps creeping up though, limiting her usefulness and as a torpedo boat or gunboating from smoke she is poor. 

[Redcap375]

Nice one lads, thanks.

 

Daring it is.  Got to the lightning and was enjoying that but stopped after rework and switched to Groz.

 

@Aotearas, @Taliesn your preferred captain skills and mods?

 

What do you give up for IFHE on the daring (if really required)? BFT, SE or SI? 

 

 

[Aotearas]

3 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

Nice one lads, thanks.

 

Daring it is.  Got to the lightning and was enjoying that but stopped after rework and switched to Groz.

I forgot to mention, with meh base speed and no option to use the spoodbeast, the Daring can get a wee bit uncomfortable if you have a ship or two breathing down your neck because chances are they're considerably faster than you.

 

In unreleated news, why is there two Redcap375 users? Unique account name wut?

[Redcap375]

3 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

I forgot to mention, with meh base speed and no option to use the spoodbeast, the Daring can get a wee bit uncomfortable if you have a ship or two breathing down your neck because chances are they're considerably faster than you.

 

Used to it with the USS KIDD.  Just always have an escape route and look at the enemy DD's your facing and do the maths.

 

Quote

 

In unreleated news, why is there two Redcap375 users? Unique account name wut?

 

Really?  Haven't got a clue...Hummm.

 

The server was awful yesterday and didn't even had a clan tag after crashing out of a battle.  Maybe something to do with that?

[Redcap375]

Oh yeah, strange....

 

@Crysantos have you got a sec mate?

[Aotearas]

7 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

@Aotearas, @Taliesn your preferred captain skills and mods?

PT - LS - SE - CE - IFHE - AR - SI

MAM mk.1 - PM mk.1 - AAGM mk.1 - STG mk.2 - CSM mk.1 - TTM mk.3

 

You can also easily replace the torpedo reload modification for the mainbattery reload modification if you want to focus more on guns.

[Taliesn]

3 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

PT - LS - SE - CE - IFHE - AR - SI

MAM mk.1 - PM mk.1 - AAGM mk.1 - STG mk.2 - CSM mk.1 - TTM mk.3

 

You can also easily replace the torpedo reload modification for the mainbattery reload modification if you want to focus more on guns.

 

15 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

Nice one lads, thanks.

 

Daring it is.  Got to the lightning and was enjoying that but stopped after rework and switched to Groz.

 

@Aotearas, @Taliesn your preferred captain skills and mods?

 

What do you give up for IFHE on the daring (if really required)? BFT, SE or SI? 

 

 

 

What @Aotearas said.

 

To be honest I enjoyed Jutland, a lot, but found Daring pretty underwhelming. In other words, I took her out for a spin a few times, sucked big time and she got relegated to the port ever since.

 

I have rpf on Z-52 but you can't have that and IFHE on Daring (on top of CE unless you miss on SI)

 

Also, bear in mind Daring's hydro is for defence only, great to evade torps but that's about it.

[_Teob_]

2 hours ago, Redcap375 said:

 

So maybe the Daring then instead of the Z52?

 

How come you did so well in it and now it's fell from grace?  You would have still had those bounces and low DPM as such. What changed?

 

1 hour ago, Redcap375 said:

Nice one lads, thanks.

 

Daring it is.  Got to the lightning and was enjoying that but stopped after rework and switched to Groz.

 

@Aotearas, @Taliesn your preferred captain skills and mods?

 

What do you give up for IFHE on the daring (if really required)? BFT, SE or SI? 

 

 

 

I don't do that well in it anymore. I mean, I do but compared to my performance in the Daring or the Grozo, it's not that great. And I am a DD nut, I can make any DD work but it might not be a very fun experience.

 

I know you didn't ask me, but I thought I'd share my Daring build for as well.  I don't believe you should be putting any points in torpedoes. My build has considerably more gun DPM and I consider your guns to be your main source of damage. With the amount of smokes at your disposal, as long as you do at least 10k dmg per smoke (so fire like 6-7 times) you will have a pretty big impact on the match.

[Redcap375]

17 minutes ago, _Teob_ said:

 

 

I don't do that well in it anymore. I mean, I do but compared to my performance in the Daring or the Grozo, it's not that great. And I am a DD nut, I can make any DD work but it might not be a very fun experience.

 

I know you didn't ask me, but I thought I'd share my build for it as well.  I don't believe you should be putting any points in torpedoes. My build has considerably more gun DPM and I consider your guns to be your main source of damage. With the amount of smokes at your disposal, as long as you do at least 10k dmg per smoke (so fire like 6-7 times) you will have a pretty big impact on the match.

 

Nice one.  Thanks for the heads-up.

 

And i'm starting to become a DD fan. I'm taking up the responsibility. Too many DD players losing the game for teams and getting a bit fed up with it.

 

After all those years in a CV hunting them, i'm finally becoming one.    Shame about the meta for it tho.

[_Teob_]

3 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

 

Nice one.  Thanks for the heads-up.

 

And i'm starting to become a DD fan. I'm taking up the responsibility. Too many DD players losing the game for teams and getting a bit fed up with it.

 

After all those years in a CV hunting them, i'm finally becoming one.    Shame about the meta for it tho.

 

The Daring is quite good to deal with CVs. The number of smoke charges and the short cooldown means that it's difficult for CVs to hunt you down effectively. No CV wants to chill with his planes over you for 40-50s until your smoke runs out.