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mel1111

ranked matches and rented ships

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After playing quite a few ranked matches I think I now know what the problem is with these rented ships. 

 

Their renters get a ship to play with they are not used to and then start making all the mistakes, we used to make when we finally grinded to get one of those ships. The difference is, that we made all our mistakes during random or coop matches and because of it we got to know the ship. 

However in ranked matches you do not have the time to get to know the ship, you need to perform!

 

So what I am saying is that it is a really bad decision from wows to introduce these ships both in ranked, but also in clan wars, because it screws up the game of those who took a long time to get to that level. And since the play in the last months shows disasterous battles anyway, it would have been nice to make ranked and clan wars available for those who did the grind and not some tourists, who would like to have a go.

 

Please join me in my complaint to WOWS about this issue and let us hope the game will get a bit nicer to play again

 

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So people buying new Tier X do not do these mistakes?

People using rented ships lose all tactical ability?

People with bought Tier X ships have suffcient tactical ability?

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ppl with normal tier 10 ships make dumb mistakes in ranked  most of the times.

At least with rentals u know what you are dealing with.

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24 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

So people buying new Tier X do not do these mistakes?

People using rented ships lose all tactical ability?

People with bought Tier X ships have suffcient tactical ability?

Yes

 

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9 minutes ago, mel1111 said:

Yes

So, basicly any logic based discussion is pointless with you :Smile_great:

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39 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

So people buying new Tier X do not do these mistakes?

People using rented ships lose all tactical ability?

People with bought Tier X ships have suffcient tactical ability?

 

I think you misunderstood what the OP wrote. As I see it the OP accepted that people buying new T10 ships do make mistakes, but as the probability of someone buying a new ship doesn't correlate (much) with ranked then they tend to buy those ships during normal periods of gameplay and go on to use those ships in randoms where they make mistakes. Normal people learn from mistakes and make them less often in future. As most people would have bought the rental they're using in ranked outside of ranked battles or at least have used the ship in randoms before taking it to ranked they make mistakes in random battles. Rental ships means that the only way to play the ship outside the training room which most people don't use is in ranked, which means people are playing a new ship without having made the mistakes relevant to that ship in a less competitive game mode like randoms.

 

I don't think the OP hinted at people in rental ships losing all tactical ability because they're sailing rentals, nor do I think that the OP made any claims regarding the general ability of the sea of potatoes in game.

 

It's a simple enough statement. Player X will be better in ship Y after 100 battles in ship Y than after 0 battles in ship Y, therefore giving any player access to a competitive game mode with a new ship that they by haven't played before is silly.

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2 minutes ago, Caughtintherain said:

It's a simple enough statement. Player X will be better in ship Y after 100 battles in ship Y than after 0 battles in ship Y, therefore giving any player access to a competitive game mode with a new ship that they by haven't played before is silly.

Most ranked players do not have 100 battle in their bought ships...

Not all players in a rented ship did not play Tier X before or even the ship they rented.

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9 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Most ranked players do not have 100 battle in their bought ships...

Not all players in a rented ship did not play Tier X before or even the ship they rented.

 

You are technically correct. The best kind of correct! We're discussing probabilities though, not absolutes. My favourite part of your post is when you claim that someone with a Yamato will play a rental Yamato in ranked, presumably as a grand jest. You are quite correct, I'm sure it has happened, but not in large enough numbers to be relevant to this discussion.

 

You seem to have skipped my main explanation but I'm not sure if it's because it was bad or because you're tired so I'll repeat it but in a less complicated fashion. It is more likely that players in rental ships in ranked have less experience with that ship than players in regular ships in ranked.

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3 minutes ago, Caughtintherain said:

My favourite part of your post is when you claim that someone with a Yamato will play a rental Yamato in ranked, presumably as a grand jest.

I did not claim that. There are other options, like a second account (got bored, reroll for stats, changed server,...)

4 minutes ago, Caughtintherain said:

It is more likely that players in rental ships in ranked have less experience with that ship than players in regular ships in ranked.

The difference is small, nothing to complain about. That is basicly complaining that somebody is worse than you and therefore not carrying you.

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1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

I did not claim that. There are other options, like a second account (got bored, reroll for stats, changed server,...)

 

15 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Not all players in a rented ship did not play Tier X before or even the ship they rented.

 

I'm sorry but you did not sufficiently qualify your statement and I cannot read minds, at the time of posting you did in fact claim that people with a Yamato would in fact play a rental Yamato in ranked. Since we both enjoy being technically correct I do feel the need to point out that I am technically correct here.

 

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

The difference is small, nothing to complain about. That is basicly complaining that somebody is worse than you and therefore not carrying you.

 

I disagree with your claim that the difference is small. I haven't played much ranked because I'm working on my solo random WR at the moment and ranked would take away time I'm using to do that, I have played a few games in the Des Moines though and I have a related but irrelevant anecdote I'd like to share.

 

There I was on Tears of the Desert with the reworked epicentre mode, but the reworked epicentre mode is a thread of its own, so there I was in my Des Moines sailing along north east and gently plinking away at oblivious targets on the north west of the map, I went around an island and briefly marvelled at the visual appeal of it until I was met by a rental Yamato not 10k off my bow, fortunately I was almost nose on to it, unfortunately it was a Yamato and we all know what Yamatos do to nose on Des Moines.

 

I knew the end was near so I swallowed my pride and suppressed any thoughts of a monster damage match, switched to AP and began the traditional death chant of my people. The first salvo came... It was HE. I returned fire, my mind racing with the possibilities. I came to the conclusion almost instantaneously, I had been blessed with an extra 30 seconds of life because of this HE spamming yolo sniper pr0 elite player's decision to load HE in the Yamato. Blap, blap, blap, my AP shells slammed in to the juicy broadside of the Yamato. I began to feel excited, could I win here? Was this going to be one of those moments when the fate of my comrades was in my hands and with the judicious application of small miracles I could win the day?

 

Excitement turned to fear and panic when I saw the muzzle flash from the Yamato, surely this was the end. My health was good but I was going to lose 1/3rd of it at least. Again the salvo was HE! The damage insignificant I continued firing. At this point my ability to form coherent thoughts was gone and the extensive training from my random battles took over, I aimed for the cheeks as I closed the distance, blap, blap, blap, no citadels but some hefty chunks of damage. The Yamato was almost in critical condition. Boom came the retort at 8km, more high explosive shells. I began to chuckle though my pixelated life and the lives of hundreds of virtual sailors was still in danger. My aim jiggled along with my large man boobs and I continued to return fire.

 

The Yamato was down to 10k, I could win this exchange. I was sweating. The heat of the desert was producing its fabled tears. Another blast from the monster in front of me, I dodge most of the ineffectual shrapnel and took aim for my crowning kill of the game. Then the Yamato had disappeared. A friendly BB had rushed to my aid in defeating this battleship of myth and legend. Without even acknowledging his heroism the brave BB 20km behind me had saved my life from this roving 10k HP Yamato. "Kill secure" I typed in the chat.

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26 minutes ago, Caughtintherain said:

It is more likely that players in rental ships in ranked have less experience with that ship than players in regular ships in ranked

experience in a ship Likely. But the chance that a rental and  normal player in your team  are just as good is just as high.

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1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

So people buying new Tier X do not do these mistakes?

People using rented ships lose all tactical ability?

People with bought Tier X ships have suffcient tactical ability?

On average, Yes.

 

Statistically, most of the normal ships played in ranked will have been played before that ranked season started, while most if not all rental ships will have completely new captains in them(who would play a rental if they owned the ship?)

Furthermore, it is possible to own rentals without having reached more than t8, which you might even have done by buying a premium, this also means that the average experience of rental captains will be lower than that of normal captains.

 

 On average, the answer to all your points is yes, and it is the average result that matters.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, lameoll said:

experience in a ship Likely. But the chance that a rental and  normal player in your team  are just as good is just as high.

 

Only if natural talent can outweigh experience. On average it can't though in a small number of cases it can and as @thiextar said it's the average that matters.

 

Let's take a natural 55% player. He plays a new ship, his WR in it is 50% because he's good at the game but bad at the ship. After a few games he gets better until he meets his natural 55%-57% WR and the ship stats level out.

 

The same scenario with a natural 50% player leads to a 45% WR in a new ship until he learns the ship at which point he reaches his natural 50%-52% WR with it.

 

If I have two 55% players in a game in the same ship on different teams they're both good but more often than not the one with more experience in that ship will win.

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3 minutes ago, Caughtintherain said:

I'm sorry but you did not sufficiently qualify your statement and I cannot read minds, at the time of posting you did in fact claim that people with a Yamato would in fact play a rental Yamato in ranked. Since we both enjoy being technically correct I do feel the need to point out that I am technically correct here.

I did not even use the word Yamato... :Smile_smile:

It is not my problem when you come to wrong conclusions.

 

2 minutes ago, thiextar said:

On average, Yes.

So the average rental player loses his tactical ability...

Riiiight :fish_palm:

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1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

So the average rental player loses his tactical ability...

Riiiight :fish_palm:

The average rental player has a much worse tactical ability than other players.

 

So in other news, having a rental player on your team, while the enemy team does not, means that you on average have one less player with anything that can be called a tactical ability.

 

I wouldnt say that a player with 50%wr and 1000pr for example has any tactical ability, if he did, he would have better stats.

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2 minutes ago, Caughtintherain said:

 

If I have two 55% players in a game in the same ship on different teams they're both good but more often than not the one with more experience in that ship will win.

if there is a guy with a 55 % wr in 1 ship with 1000 games he wont likely improve annymore.

Now if there is one with a 55 % wr in a ship with only 20 games there is a high chance he could still up his game.

So no i dont trust experience over skill 

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1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

I did not even use the word Yamato... :Smile_smile:

 

Objection! The Yamato is a ship, therefore the Yamato exists as a subset of a word you used as the expansion of the word ship includes every ship in the game. In context your use of the word ship can be said to only include the ships offered as rentals for ranked, a group which the Yamato is included in. The only logical conclusion is that the word ship from your post was a truncation of the list of available rental ships otherwise your post is nonsensical. 

 

4 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

It is not my problem when you come to wrong conclusions.

 

Communication is really hard but it's a two way street. It can be really tempting to wash your hands of a conversation when you're unable to put your point across in a manner which can be understood by other people but please don't give up. You can do it and I will help you improve. I believe in you ColonelPete.

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1 minute ago, lameoll said:

if there is a guy with a 55 % wr in 1 ship with 1000 games he wont likely improve annymore.

Now if there is one with a 55 % wr in a ship with only 20 games there is a high chance he could still up his game.

So no i dont trust experience over skill 

 

But if both players are equally good and have a different amount of experience...

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Just now, Caughtintherain said:

But if both players are equally good and have a different amount of experience...

yes equally good. But most ppl on their T10 ships wont improve and they will stick to their bad habits.

A lot even think their doing the right thing in ranked while their literally the reason u lose Even tho they topped the score.

While on the other hand a rental player You know what your dealing with. and usualy that is the only difference.

 

 

 

 

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Just now, lameoll said:

yes equally good. But most ppl on their T10 ships wont improve and they will stick to their bad habits.

A lot even think their doing the right thing in ranked while their literally the reason u lose Even tho they topped the score.

While on the other hand a rental player You know what your dealing with. and usualy that is the only difference.

 

 

 

 

 

But the exact same guy having played 0 battles in a ship and the exact same guy having played 100 battles in a ship...

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2 minutes ago, thiextar said:

The average rental player has a much worse tactical ability than other players.

Apart from being a bold claim, I did not say that. I talked about losing tactical ability.

1 minute ago, Caughtintherain said:

Objection! The Yamato is a ship, therefore the Yamato exists as a subset of a word you used as the expansion of the word ship includes every ship in the game. In context your use of the word ship can be said to only include the ships offered as rentals for ranked, a group which the Yamato is included in. The only logical conclusion is that the word ship from your post was a truncation of the list of available rental ships otherwise your post is nonsensical.

Never try that with lawyer!

When you say you saw "somebody" steal in the store, that means according to your "logic" that the Queen of England stole something, as she is "somebody"...

3 minutes ago, Caughtintherain said:

Communication is really hard but it's a two way street. It can be really tempting to wash your hands of a conversation when you're unable to put your point across in a manner which can be understood by other people but please don't give up. You can do it and I will help you improve. I believe in you ColonelPete.

I expect people to put more thought into a game theoretical discussion.

 

And since some people are so keen on averages, consider this:

 

Since you do not use rental ships (otherwise you would not complain about them), there are six possible slots for rental ships on your team, while the enemy team has seven possible rental slots.

That means on AVERAGE, the enemy team has more rentals ships than your team.

According to your logic, on AVERAGE the enemy team is weaker, thanks to the introduction of rental ships....

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There is a huge amount of toxicity in chat against people playing with ranked ships which is reflected in some of the comments here as well. All sorts of comments about 'go back to T8 potato' 'you shouldn't be playing TX' etc etc, even at the beginning of the game before a shot has been fired. Rented ships should not be marked in game as such, it serves no purpose other than to give the trolls and bullies something to harrass people about. And as a counterargument to some of the comments here I've seen many times rented ships coming out better than even premiums or even top of the team.

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1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

When you say you saw "somebody" steal in the store, that means according to your "logic" that the Queen of England stole something, as she is "somebody"...

 

Ah but you missed the context again. Was the Queen of England in the store at the time of the robbery? If so then it's possible that she stole something by the colloquial definition of the word steal as in taking without consent though I'm not certain that she can steal anything from anywhere in England in a legal sense. But to use your example (this is how you should react when somebody uses a reasonable example that you didn't post yourself btw, don't poo poo it, roll with it, this communication tip is free for you as I know you want to improve) yes, if the Queen was part of the subset of the word then if someone was to use Her Majesty as an example given the statement in your scenario I would understand it and they would be technically correct that I said that if the Queen fulfilled all the implied parameters of the word such as being in the store at the time. Like how the Yamato fills the parameters of being a ship that can be used in rental form in ranked. So if someone can use "a rental ship" in ranked they can use "a rental Yamato" in ranked.

 

5 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

I expect people to put more thought into a game theoretical discussion.

 

Why?

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6 minutes ago, Caughtintherain said:

But the exact same guy having played 0 battles in a ship and the exact same guy having played 100 battles in a ship...

wont Mather l never played conquerer. but i was playing on NA so i started playing Rental conq i had no cammo / no flags / no premium consumables.

And i had a normal conq against me and he stood no chance against me. Even tho i had no experience in that ship. just because i had the map awareness  i knew how to pre aim and all.

Playing a ship for the first time does not say a lot in this game .  

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