What makes a ship OP?

[KielYourself]

Lately, with all of the new premium/silver ships released and announced, people tend to call them overpowered. But what is the actual definition of an OP ship in the context of World Of Warships? Is it the amount of gimmicks it has? Game design, matchmaking, exclusivity or something else? 

 

I am sure there will be a lot of different opinions and thoughts on the definition so I ask you all to present your opinion. Would be nice if you can exclude CVs since there are already many topics on them. 

 

Personally, when it comes to most classes and ships(excluding CVs) I think the game has a relatively small amount of ships that are considered OP and that the game is fairly balanced. 

[DasTongle]

It is OP the moment Ship Jesus tells you it is.

Obviously. 

 

In all seriousness there are a few very strong ships like Kremlin or Stalin that played right can be very tough nuts to crack.

I for myself find myself agreeing with you that there are very few broken ships like Belfast.

 

[___V_E_N_O_M___]

6 minutes ago, Miki12345 said:

Lately, with all of the new premium/silver ships released and announced, people tend to call them overpowered. But what is the actual definition of an OP ship in the context of World Of Warships? Is it the amount of gimmicks it has? Game design, matchmaking, exclusivity or something else? 

 

I am sure there will be a lot of different opinions and thoughts on the definition so I ask you all to present your opinion. Would be nice if you can exclude CVs since there are already many topics on them. 

 

Personally, when it comes to most classes and ships(excluding CVs) I think the game has a relatively small amount of ships that are considered OP and that the game is fairly balanced. 

Ships deemed OP are ships that outperform others in the same class / tier.

 

They could have excessive firepower or survivability or both, which make them harder to kill thus they are classed as OP.

[KielYourself]

2 minutes ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

Ships deemed OP are ships that outperform others in the same class / tier.

That is up to the players not the ships themselves. A unicum can make a bad ship op and a potato can make an op ship bad. I think its just not that simple. 

[Aotearas]

1 minute ago, Miki12345 said:

That is up to the players not the ships themselves. A unicum can make a bad ship op and a potato can make an op ship bad. I think its just not that simple. 

That's why this is filtered for server averages.

[1MajorKoenig]

13 minutes ago, Miki12345 said:

Lately, with all of the new premium/silver ships released and announced, people tend to call them overpowered. But what is the actual definition of an OP ship in the context of World Of Warships? Is it the amount of gimmicks it has? Game design, matchmaking, exclusivity or something else? 

 

I am sure there will be a lot of different opinions and thoughts on the definition so I ask you all to present your opinion. Would be nice if you can exclude CVs since there are already many topics on them. 

 

Personally, when it comes to most classes and ships(excluding CVs) I think the game has a relatively small amount of ships that are considered OP and that the game is fairly balanced. 

 

OP means that a certain ship gives the player an unfair advantage over his adversaries 

[___V_E_N_O_M___]

2 minutes ago, Miki12345 said:

That is up to the players not the ships themselves. A unicum can make a bad ship op and a potato can make an op ship bad. I think its just not that simple. 

Thats true to a degree but on average an OP ship will perform better than their counterparts.

[KielYourself]

3 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

OP means that a certain ship gives the player an unfair advantage over his adversaries 

Define unfair. Some ships have lets say have radar and others dont but there are certainly strong ships without radar. 

[1MajorKoenig]

Just now, Miki12345 said:

Define unfair. Some ships have lets say radar and others dont but there certainly strong ships without radar. 

 

You can’t define “unfair” or “appropriate”.

 

It’s the combination of factors usually. Radar CAN make a ship unfair if it has too many other advantages already or can just be a situational gimmick. 

 

It is the package.

 

In the context of WOWS a lot of times the offensive strike is what makes ships imbalanced. As the nature of the game asks do that mostly 

[Excavatus]

For me it is all about consistency,

Every player has a consistent WR after a certain amount of battles.

an OP ship means for me, a given ship which breaks this consistency and gives an artifical boost to that number.

 

For example, If I'm winning %50 of my battles in my 8 9 and 10 cruisers, and If I started to win with yoshino or stalingrad or khronstad for %60 - 65 of my battles.

That means that ship is OP for me.. but again, a good amount of numbers needed for me to reach that conclusion :)

 

I usually look for %25-30 boost (of his actual WR) on ones WR..

[Asakka]

My 85% winrate with Enterprise 

[_Lupastro_]

Belfast is OP

[Hanse77SWE]

"A ship that take little to no skill to dominate in."

[CptBarney]

Ships that require little to no skill to basically rekt the enemy team.

 

Also ships that have non-existant weaknesses that allow them to dominate easier.

 

Hanse basically gave the best explanation.

[Redcap375]

To me, and this is in my eyes, it's when a ship has far too many strengths to counter it's weakness. 

 

The balance is tipped to one side before the player gets into the ship.

 

The Belfast for instance.  Having a cruiser with GREAT concealment, speed, workable AA,  RADAR and SMOKE (Gimmicks also another factor) and HE which can ALSO use workable AP is OP.  It's strengths and in this instance, gimmicks far far out weight its weakness.......Low HP and armour. 

 

The Blanacegrad.  It's got the HEAVIEST guns found on a cruiser and it's the most ACCURATE considering the callabar. It takes up a cruiser spot when it's more like a BB, It's got Defensive AA AND Radar (double gimmicks again) and is a beast to move due to its very good armour for a cruiser  and highest HP pool of any tier 10 cruiser, this far outweighs it's weakness......Crap concealment.  You cant really count burn duration as you can bring that down to nearly normal cruiser levels with captain skills.

 

The old Kaga.  It was the most destructive force in a tier 5-6 game.  It had the most planes and reserves and hardly ever ran out of planes.  The AA at those tiers couldnt cope and you can drop 2 x DD killing drop torps that nearly always hit (due to the spread, the dd when turning use to eat at least one).  Fighers were weak but you still had 2 of them, and you had the highest HE damage and fire starting bombers. 

 

The Saipan...Need i say more.

 

So for me, it's the balance of a ship.  A monkey is still a monkey so any ship will do crap when sailed by one regardless of how OP a ship is.

 

Balance.

[veslingr]

1 hour ago, Miki12345 said:

Lately, with all of the new premium/silver ships released and announced, people tend to call them overpowered. But what is the actual definition of an OP ship in the context of World Of Warships? Is it the amount of gimmicks it has? Game design, matchmaking, exclusivity or something else? 

 

I am sure there will be a lot of different opinions and thoughts on the definition so I ask you all to present your opinion. Would be nice if you can exclude CVs since there are already many topics on them. 

 

Personally, when it comes to most classes and ships(excluding CVs) I think the game has a relatively small amount of ships that are considered OP and that the game is fairly balanced. 

OPnes of ship i would define as formula of how bad captain can be to do average results, the more potato captain that can do the average rsult= more OP ship

 

OP (higher number you get more OP ship is)= average resault/captain skill (where captain skill goes from 1 (worst) to 10 (best)

 

 

[KielYourself]

11 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

 

The Blanacegrad.  It's got the HEAVIEST guns found on a cruiser and it's the most ACCURATE considering the callabar. It takes up a cruiser spot when it's more like a BB, It's got Defensive AA AND Radar (double gimmicks again) and is a beast to move due to its very good armour for a cruiser  and highest HP pool of any tier 10 cruiser, this far outweighs it's weakness......Crap concealment.  You cant really count burn duration as you can bring that down to nearly normal cruiser levels with captain skills.

 

When i play stalin i usually get 1.5million potential and use up all of my heals, that thing just eats he damage. I can do much more potential damage with far less armored an less hp cruisers just by dodging. And it has great ap but its he is unusuable imo. While it can mount radar and def aa, its counter part moskva can mount hydro instead of def aa which is really helpful in competitive gamemodes without cvs. Id say it is an okay ship. Dont crucify me pls. /s

 

I think the problem with stalin is that its classified as a cruiser when it isnt, like many other "mislabeled" cruisers like graf spee, alaska, krohn etc. It would be much better if WG can make a new class like battlecruisers and label them properly but that is another topic. 

[Redcap375]

24 minutes ago, Miki12345 said:

When i play stalin i usually get 1.5million potential and use up all of my heals, that thing just eats he damage. I can do much more potential damage with far less armored an less hp cruisers just by dodging. And it has great ap but its he is unusuable imo. While it can mount radar and def aa, its counter part moskva can mount hydro instead of def aa which is really helpful in competitive gamemodes without cvs. Id say it is an okay ship. Dont crucify me pls. /s

 

I think the problem with stalin is that its classified as a cruiser when it isnt, like many other "mislabeled" cruisers like graf spee, alaska, krohn etc. It would be much better if WG can make a new class like battlecruisers and label them properly but that is another topic. 

 

Any ship in the game eats damage. What would outright kill a Des you can shrug off in a Grad. 

 

Hey you have your opinion mate like I do and people are on both sides of the fence. But the balance is tipped far to one side and the classification is one such strength.  I didn't even mention it's fantastic range and ability to even lad constant shells with Cit potential. 

 

But the BalanceGrad debate will just go round in circles.  

 

 ALL the streamers (including Flamu, Zoup and Noster) said the same thing, not since the Belfast have they all agreed think about that.

 

But anyway, to me it's the balance that makes a ship OP. 

 

Some people say that the Henry is OP, but it's still a Cruiser and doesn't think it's anything else.  It hasn't got 50 mm plating armour straped to it's front, it's armour is good but nothing special, its got the longest reload when not using reload boost, it's shells float, it eats damage from the front and side (not a bow-on kinda ship), it's not got radar and its got the worst concealment of the "other" cruisers and its totally blind with no planes.

 

The guns and it's large HP pool make it strong with IFHE and reload, but it pays for that with other things.  It's strong don't get me wrong, but it's weakness bring it it down a peg. it's more balanced. You can always sneak up on a Henri and I love doing it. 

 

Team spots a Henri and the Grad punishes it from the other side of the map with a cit or 2. The Henri couldn't do that.

 

IMHO.

 

 

 

[DFens_666]

4 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

Some people say that the Henry is OP,

 

I wouldnt say Henri is OP, but its definetely too strong right now. Same as Zao imo. The torpbuff was unnecessary. For Henri its just the fear of the MBRB. You just cant do anything, against another Cruiser you could try to turn away, get punished yes but most likely you wouldnt die. Against Henri you can forget that. And if you reverse, he can HE spam you with MBRB too.

And for longrange spamming HE pop your speed boost, accelerate + break all the time you are almost impossible to get hit. Maybe it should lose the speedboost, would it make a bit easier to hit it at longer ranges.

[Ubertron_X]

The real question is not "what makes a ship OP" but "by what measure can a ship be considered OP"? Is a ship already OP when a unicum outperforms in it (even by unicum standards) or is a ship only considered OP when an average or even subpar player outperforms in it? So which ship is more OP? The ship with a very high skill ceiling that however brings 10 unicums from 65% to 85% win rate while tomatoes still struggle with it or the ship with a low skill ceiling that brings 10000 average players from 49% to 54% win rate?

[Donar79]

1 hour ago, Excavatus said:

For me it is all about consistency,

Every player has a consistent WR after a certain amount of battles.

an OP ship means for me, a given ship which breaks this consistency and gives an artifical boost to that number.

 

For example, If I'm winning %50 of my battles in my 8 9 and 10 cruisers, and If I started to win with yoshino or stalingrad or khronstad for %60 - 65 of my battles.

That means that ship is OP for me.. but again, a good amount of numbers needed for me to reach that conclusion :)

 

I usually look for %25-30 boost (of his actual WR) on ones WR..

There come ships to my mind whose name should not be mentioned

58 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

...Low HP and armour. 

and no torps. Can still remember first battles where i got in situations which i wanted to solve like in Fiji only to got reminded there are no problem solver on board

[Miragetank90]

@Redcap375Stalin is strong when played correctly. This is how it should be. But it's not OP.

 

There are many weaknesses to the ship that are not necessarily apparent at face value, beyond ''crap concealment''. 

Actually, some very good players swear by Moskva rather than Stalin. They are pretty similar, the chief difference being Moskva's AP doesn't perform as well unless they are flush broadside. 

But, Moskva has better HE spam potential, better DPM, and is more manoeuvrable and comes with greater flexibility. All this while having a similar armour scheme, radar, def AA and all the things you mentioned. 

 

So... is Moskva OP to you?

 

[Captain_Hook_]

If someone may give me a sample of a potentially overpowered, average and underpowered ship of one tier and type.

[Redcap375]

10 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

I wouldnt say Henri is OP, but its definetely too strong right now. Same as Zao imo. The torpbuff was unnecessary. For Henri its just the fear of the MBRB. You just cant do anything, against another Cruiser you could try to turn away, get punished yes but most likely you wouldnt die. Against Henri you can forget that. And if you reverse, he can HE spam you with MBRB too.

And for longrange spamming HE pop your speed boost, accelerate + break all the time you are almost impossible to get hit. Maybe it should lose the speedboost, would it make a bit easier to hit it at longer ranges.

 

I fear a Zao far more than i do an Henri in a cruiser.  Especially in a Des when you can see a Henri coming a mile off. 

 

The ability to stealth torp and with it's fanatic concealment makes it deadly.  You can get into some fantastic spots the Henri simply couldn't go .  You cant sneak up on a Zao without using radar or being a Mino. That priceless.

 

However, as soon as a Zao gets spotted it gets blown to pieces because of it plastic broadside armour and risen cit. It hasn't got the DPM to fight a fair fight and relies on its concealment  to keep it alive.  The Henri is far more tankier in that respect but has a good 5-6km more concealment to stay in before it goes invis. 

 

But both are strong and both good to use in CB. However, in IMHO not OP. 

[KielYourself]

15 minutes ago, Ubertron_X said:

The real question is not "what makes a ship OP" but "by what measure can a ship be considered OP"? Is a ship already OP when a unicum outperforms in it (even by unicum standards) or is a ship only considered OP when an average or even subpar player outperforms in it? So which ship is more OP? The ship with a very high skill ceiling that however brings 10 unicums from 65% to 85% win rate while tomatoes still struggle with it or the ship with a low skill ceiling that brings 10000 average players from 49% to 54% win rate?

That is also what my question intends to ask. Like said be4 univums can make almost any ship op.