Destroyer smoke needs a rework. Tired of ninja ships shooting me.

[Kyono]

Just now I was in my Mogami and was up against a Farragut DD. He suicide rushes in, spams his torps and misses, pops smoke from a range of 5km and instantly vanishes and then proceeds to spam HE shells at me, wrecking each and every one of my guns without him ever popping up. My recon plane was in action yet he was not appearing. Yet because he was able to see ME, all of his team mates could too.

 

Has there been some sort of super buff to DD smoke that grants them the ability to see you clear as day at all times? Because I find this happening a lot now.

 

I'm reminded of this....

 

[Nechrom]

Yup. Worse is when the DD lays the smoke and then invisible CAs shoot you with impunity from behind the cloud while remaining cloaked.

[Verdius]

I wonder how bad this will get when KTKM gets her smokescreen, getting torpwalled from point blank range and mauled by BB/CA at the same time without your team being able to return fire.

[DestoryerO_o]

In the case of USN DD that just fired her torps, i would charge into the smoke right after her. IMHO, the safest thing to do in those circumstances.

Kill the DD and then use that same smoke as your cover for nuking the guys out in the open.

[OVanBruce]

If he could attack you from the smoke then something must have been spotting you cause the smoke works both ways. How this tactic usually works is: You pop up smoke, you then move forward the smoke screen while staying out of detection range of the enemy ships and then all the ships that are behind the fog can shoot because you are providing then spotting.

 

So if the DD was actually inside the smoke and shooting you, he must have had spotting from something else like a plane or another DD.

 

The main problem with this tactic imo is that it's easier to execute than to counter it. The DD player can easily set it up by himself without cooperation from anyone on his team but to actually counter it you need cooperation from someone on your team, specially the CVs which usually don't want to spare any of their squadrons for counter spotting.

[Celandri]

usualy you would rush into the smoke to detect them.

but i seen also the other way where i run as a DD with smoketrail behind me zigzaging so i cloak the whole ship but still get the you got detected warning constantly. so yes there is something about the smoke thats not 100% working right

i also been staying into smoke totaly still and nothing happens but lots of warnings saying you got detected (captains skill)

even been shot at while driving DD and cant see a crap where enemy ships are, and they pops up middle of nowhere 3km from me so feels like the detection instrumentals arent fully optimized (was a sims should been seen at 7km range.

[ddod]

All you guys suggesting "charge the smoke" are crzy.

 

[OVanBruce]

All you guys suggesting "charge the smoke" are crzy.

 

It can work if you know the DD doesn't have torps and there is nothing behind that smokescreen.

[Devantejah]

All you guys suggesting "charge the smoke" are crzy.

 

 

 

Full steam ahead, let's show that DD who's boss!

[ddod]

I wish more ppl were doing the "charge the smoke" thing when Im playing DDs. Sadly thats not the case.

 

[Devantejah]

I wish more ppl were doing the "charge the smoke" thing when Im playing DDs. Sadly thats not the case.

 

DD's wish I weren't.

 

I enjoy the art of DD hunting!

[Coenraad]

He rushed you who sailed a mogami? Sounds to me you where too far forward in your mogami?

Smoke works fine and predictable. If a DD pops smoke i turn away, evade torps that might come and see if he gets drawn out. If not i'll find another target

[Pastaiolo]

Players dealing with DDs needs rework. Your fault for being so close to him.

[Bobbydylan]

Yeah, I thought that opening fire should make you visible.  It's really annoying that I can take fire from someone inside smoke, but not be able to return fire. 

 

If I can't see him, then he shouldn't be able to see me. 

[dennez]

Player gets outplayed and creates a nerf thread on the forum.. Now where did i hear that one before..

[OnboardG1]

It sounds like you had every opportunity to kill him when he was being stupid and then got salty when he started playing smart.

[Kyono]

OVanBruce, on 28 April 2015 - 05:21 AM, said:

If he could attack you from the smoke then something must have been spotting you cause the smoke works both ways. How this tactic usually works is: You pop up smoke, you then move forward the smoke screen while staying out of detection range of the enemy ships and then all the ships that are behind the fog can shoot because you are providing then spotting.

 

So if the DD was actually inside the smoke and shooting you, he must have had spotting from something else like a plane or another DD.

 

The main problem with this tactic imo is that it's easier to execute than to counter it. The DD player can easily set it up by himself without cooperation from anyone on his team but to actually counter it you need cooperation from someone on your team, specially the CVs which usually don't want to spare any of their squadrons for counter spotting.

 

He was the only DD alive on their team. He had an enemy CA about 8k behind him and the other three BBs alive were the opposite side of the map. There was nothing to spot me yet the Farragut was spamming HE shells and the CA behind was joining in. Yet the DD player who was inside the smoke was not appearing to me despite him firing constantly while inside of it.
 

OnboardG1, on 28 April 2015 - 07:53 AM, said:

It sounds like you had every opportunity to kill him when he was being stupid and then got salty when he started playing smart.

 

Salty? Not at all. Just stating that the spotting mechanics either works one way or the other. In total favour of the DD or in total favour of the enemy team.
 

dennez, on 28 April 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

Player gets outplayed and creates a nerf thread on the forum.. Now where did i hear that one before..

 

Please point out the sentence where I said nerf.
 

[OVanBruce]

 

He was the only DD alive on their team. He had an enemy CA about 8k behind him and the other three BBs alive were the opposite side of the map. There was nothing to spot me yet the Farragut was spamming HE shells and the CA behind was joining in. Yet the DD player who was inside the smoke was not appearing to me despite him firing constantly while inside of it.

 

 Which map were you playing on? were you firing at then?

[Aerroon]

You can always fire from smoke and stay invisible. Working as intended. This is literally the only reason why smoke is useful in most situations and it balances destroyer gun range out with other classes.

[playarci]

 

Please point out the sentence where I said nerf.

 

In the title? Quote: 

Destroyer smoke needs a rework. Tired of ninja ships shooting me.

 

If you were happy with it the way it is then it would have read something like this: Destroyer smoke doesnt need a rework. Not tired of ninja ships shooting me. See?

 

 

[2ndaryBattleTank]

Bit of a repost, but I think it is still valid so I'll leave this here:

 

Fun though the game is, I am not entirely happy with the way smokescreens are implemented. They are of course an essential part of the toolbox of a destroyer, but in their current form lack intuition and lend themselves to unrealistic and even unfair exploits.

 

The first problem is the lack of visual indication that you are actually inside a smokescreen. From a distance on the outside they look like a solid grey cloud, clearly marking the edge of the screen. From the inside however there is only a barely perceptible haze that makes it difficult to determine whether you are actually being covered or not. It happens fairly often that, thinking you should be safe from enemy observation, you get shot at by players who seem to have no trouble knowing where you are. This happens even when not firing the guns and when there is obviously no other observer nearby who could be spotting you.

 

The explanation must be that I've unwittingly ventured outside of the cover of the smokescreen without the game giving sufficient feedback that this is the case. The solution would be to make the smoke, when inside the screen, much thicker visually, restricting the view two no more than a couple of kilometers, becoming more translucent towards the edges. The transparency of the smokescreen should correspond to what actually can be spotted. This way you can be sure that if you can see the enemy through the smoke they can see you as well. Appropriate action can then be taken.

 

The second problem is that smokescreens can also be used as an exploit by destroyers and sometimes other ships as well. If you are properly inside the screen, or behind it, the enemy obviously cannot see you. By rights this should mean that you can't see him either. Most of the time however he will be spotted by one of your teammates allowing you to know where to aim your guns and torpedoes while the enemy has no clue where you are. Particularly dangerous are destroyers circling around in their own smoke spamming torps at anything that passes by without the targets ever being able to see their attacker. Of course this means that you should do everything you can to keep away as far away as possible from a suspicious smokescreen, but it is still a gamey and unrealistic exploit.

 

In my view smoke should be a great tool to cover your retreat after you've made an attack run. It should not allow you to sit back and shoot at targets that can't see you and that you shouldn't be able to see either. Until the advent of radar, which made smokescreens redundant, being able to visually spot the target was essential to being able to engage it. For the game this means that if you trade visibility for protection it should also mean that you will not be shooting at anything yourself through the smokescreen because you can't see it.

 

In short, the game should give better indication that you are properly covered from the enemy by smoke, but once you're in there it should also mean you can't see him either.

 

 

[1000guns]

All you guys suggesting "charge the smoke" are crzy.

 

 did that yesterday and it was a hell of a chase, one of the most fun moments I've had so far because oh yes it is a GAME  kudos to the fellow who evaded me and survived for  so long!  seriously though I agree with the cannot be seen/can't see yourself smoke rework.. shooting tops randomly is alright I guess and would be a logical thing to do since you can't actually see and just go with spray and pray tacticts... hammering someone without any chance of them fighting back is a little unfair

 

[ArrNgee]

Smoke feels broken from inside, when you don't fire your guns, you shouldn't be spotted, when you do you should. Just like bushes In WOT really..

 

I hate being spotted and unspotted every 2 seconds when not shooting from inside smok. You will notice it when you have SA on your commander that the spotting ticks on and off every 2-3 seconds or so.

[delaci76]

Players dealing with DDs needs rework. Your fault for being so close to him.

 

+this.

[deifyer]

Players inside smoke should not be able to see enemies even if their teammates outside of it are spotting, unless you get to the indicated minimum range where both you and the target can see each other. Show reported positions on map/minimap but you should not be able to see any targets on your screen.

This way DD will have a tool which helps them approach targets and disappear but makes it harder to exploit it. Same should apply to ships which get smoke deployed between them, allies can still report you enemy position but you should not be able to fire at them if nothing shows up in your own vision range.

Might need to tweak smoke ability to make it function like that but for me it would make things more..natural.