Parking a CV a mountain ridge away from the enemy.

[Beastofwar]

I have been in many 4 CV matches where the second CV positions itself almost in the middle of the enemy ships, only protected by a(n island)  mountain ridge. As i understand this is a way to lower fly time to a target as you are practially upon them after lauching aircraft.

 

While this may seem a sublime way to increase your stats, it is in fact an "all or nothing" approach CV weren't designed for, and consequently are punished for by Destroyers and Cruisers coming around the corner and actually torpedoing these CV's point blanc range. This never ends well as a CV in such tight positions cannot manoeuvre efficiently anymore. Neither does +24 % concealment justify being so close to the enemy....with a ship that can be seen from outer space ! Even if enemies can't hit you, they know you are there all of the time and will counterplay.

 

In other words they are hurting their team/ are a huge burden for their team  for their performance ( stats )  obsession. Maybe this has become more apparent after the speed (duration ) nerf prompting such players to go even closer to the enemy instread of accepting slightly less performance.

 

To me it is taking the "glass cannon" build/approach even further to squeeze any high stats out of a ( hopefully ) win, but completly pants down when the enemy can overcome their unnaturally high attack rate.

 

As a player that can defend his CV and usually kill the attackers this "all or nothing" just for high stats is very ugly play.  I cannot refuse to defend their CV against enemy (AA) cruisers and DD seeking to kill them as that will deprive my team of 65 points and take a way a chunk of team power, but is does cost me a lot of aircraft.

 

What is your opinion ? Arguments based on a view that can be explained/defended in a civil manner are welcome, flaming/blaming is not ( welcome to my block list so i don't have  to ever read your  again )

 

 

[Mr_Snoww]

19 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

welcome to my block list so i don't have  to ever read your  again

so basically anyone who doesnt agree with your waffle? 

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

4 minutes ago, Mr_Snoww said:

so basically anyone who doesnt agree with your waffle? 

He better makes a list for the people he like.... 

 

[AirSupremacy]

Side note:

As T10 CV player I nowadays can only enjoy having another CV on the green team in 0.1% of matches.

As a non-CV participant in a match...I find that T8 carriers have too little direct influence on me.

I'm always sad if no CV`s are in a match, I find that CV matches are much more lively,

as the mountain parking lot huggers then get a kick up the butt.

As non-CV player in matches, I also encounter more and more matches without any CV`s in it at all.

 

Feedback, regarding CV at the frontline:

IMHO operating at the front line with a CV can pay off well if the damage counter already shows 80K-160K.

Surrounding green ships can then enjoy excellent AA protection within the AA range of a CV.

Full stop parking is always risky, for front line CV operations I recommend circling navigation within a map quadrant.

This confined circling maneuvering adds additional target challenges for the red team.

 

Sailing with weak AA ships, like the Musashi - Can provide great AA escort cover.

However, I can only recommend frontline sailing within a bunch of green ships, as rotating green Cv flak bunker the red team CV has little chance - The biggest danger at the frontline is HE rainbow spam, long-range shelling or torpedos.

 

I wish there where more matches with CV`s or with 2 CV`s, I always find that the air stuff adds greatly to the theatre of war feeling.

In the few times where I had 4 CV`s in match, it was always nice fun to care about the other carrier or to make up for the other CV if it was a bad player.

 

Happy WoWs,

it's weekend :)

 

 

46 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

I have been in many 4 CV matches where the second CV positions itself almost in the middle of the enemy ships, only protected by a(n island)  mountain ridge. As i understand this is a way to lower fly time to a target as you are practially upon them after lauching aircraft.

 

While this may seem a sublime way to increase your stats, it is in fact an "all or nothing" approach CV weren't designed for, and consequently are punished for by Destroyers and Cruisers coming around the corner and actually torpedoing these CV's point blanc range. This never ends well as a CV in such tight positions cannot manoeuvre efficiently anymore. Neither does +24 % concealment justify being so close to the enemy....with a ship that can be seen from outer space ! Even if enemies can't hit you, they know you are there all of the time and will counterplay.

 

In other words they are hurting their team/ are a huge burden for their team  for their performance ( stats )  obsession. Maybe this has become more apparent after the speed (duration ) nerf prompting such players to go even closer to the enemy instread of accepting slightly less performance.

 

To me it is taking the "glass cannon" build/approach even further to squeeze any high stats out of a ( hopefully ) win, but completly pants down when the enemy can overcome their unnaturally high attack rate.

 

As a player that can defend his CV and usually kill the attackers this "all or nothing" just for high stats is very ugly play.  I cannot refuse to defend their CV against enemy (AA) cruisers and DD seeking to kill them as that will deprive my team of 65 points and take a way a chunk of team power, but is does cost me a lot of aircraft.

 

What is your opinion ? Arguments based on a view that can be explained/defended in a civil manner are welcome, flaming/blaming is not ( welcome to my block list so i don't have  to ever read your  again )

 

 

[Beastofwar]

13 minutes ago, Mr_Snoww said:

so basically anyone who doesnt agree with your waffle? 

 

No read that again...you just need to explain why you see something your way so i can understand it too.

 

Those that are on the list get no further then senseless flaming without any explaintion other then flaming/shaming  stats, and attack on the person. Why they are never banned for consistently violating forum rules but having their targets  banned if they flame back  is beyond me......but knowing forums in general not new i suppose. So the "be silent" button is the next best thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Beastofwar]

11 minutes ago, AirSupremacy said:

 

 

Surrounding green ships can then enjoy excellent AA protection within the AA range of a CV.

 

That is a very valid argument.

 

Quote

Full stop parking is always risky, for front line CV operations I recommend circling navigation within a map quadrant.

This confined circling maneuvering adds additional target challenges for the red team.

 

 

 

Yeah the ones that are so easily snuffed are parked or surrounded by enemies coming around the corners front and rear.

 

Often little room to do anything but go forward or back....that is also why they are so easily executed by torpedo's fired at very close range.

[CptBarney]

I only move up when i know my team has control over a portion of the map, especially since my lexi captain isnt fully specced out.

 

I've done it a few times at tier 6 or tier 8 but still. I'd rather hang back and push up when needed i'm too passive most of the time unless the ship plays otherwise.

[lup3s]

I had a battle where the CV reduced the flight time even more by just sailing between enemy ships

 

[GulvkluderGuld]

1 hour ago, lup3s said:

I had a battle where the CV reduced the flight time even more by just sailing between enemy ships

 

 Probably Autopilot on vodka again.

 

Player clicked a waypoint on the Salem (3E) after setting a waypoint to come south, but autopilot couldn't make the turn and decided to take the long way around 

 

I once put my CV behind the H10 island and tried to set a waypoint to reverse. Io and behold, Autopilot decided the quickest route was to sail full ahead around the island in front of 2 BBs and a DD who were so shocked they didnt even sink me.

[thiextar]

5 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

 

you just need to explain why you see something your way so i can understand it too.

How do i learn this superpower?

[veslingr]

1 minute ago, thiextar said:

How do i learn this superpower?

you dont,...you cry on forum :)

[El2aZeR]

One of these days you will realize that you're supposed to sail behind the frontline to maximize damage output, not in the middle of it.

And if you can't kill a lone flanking DD or cruiser you deserve to die as it is down to your own incompetence.

[asalonen]

6 hours ago, AirSupremacy said:

IMHO operating at the front line with a CV can pay off well if the damage counter already shows 80K-160K.

Surrounding green ships can then enjoy excellent AA protection within the AA range of a CV.

Full stop parking is always risky, for front line CV operations I recommend circling navigation within a map quadrant.

I often push my CV pretty far towards the middle of the map already at the beginning. It's always a gamble, but there may be no good reason to wait until late-game. This typically means stationary, behind cover, since I assume that the enemy will come within my detection range. I try to park so that I can still move forward, but it's not critical.

 

The closer you are, the faster you can deal damage and the better you can carry your team. Your reaction time is shorter, whatever you need to do. When you're top-tier, the enemy AA is unlikely to deplete your reserves even if you attack with very high frequency. I feel this is often the case when playing T8 CV's in T8 battles, or even T9. T10 AA can be very harsh.

 

Also, as you said, you can provide excellent AA cover for your team. CV's have some of the best AA in tier. The more central your location the better: not only is your AA cover more useful, but your teammates can also cover your flanks better from overall good positions. It's a win-win. You need to watch out for flanking DD's, and if the matchmaking is infested with DD's it may be a good reason to stay back.

 

Most of my really high-damage games have come after moving to a somewhat reckless position early-on. Consider the screenshot below of a game with the Lexington as top-tier. I was sunk eventually (Youtube link) after an epic brawl for B, but I did get Confederate, High Caliber and Kraken, and the battle was won. It paid off, and it often does!

[BLUB__BLUB]

Usually I take my CV a bit up the channel in the Two Brothers map. 

It's a small map and usually when you sit behind one of the islands it is over soon.

You will be overrun left/right pretty quickly unless you have a good team (and those are rare...).

 

When you sit in the channel, the reds CANNOT cap your cap... if they come around you can easily spam them to death, too. 

Even AA cruisers do not manage to avoid torps as you come straight over the mountain ridge.

ANd if there are TOO MANY then I just sail up the channel... a DD in there is no problem, he'll be dead soon.

 

Most effective is if there is  cruiser or DD with you, or a fat BB staying behind.

But it can turn to crap as well when some BBs think they should ALSO go through the channel... 

 

[El2aZeR]

4 minutes ago, asalonen said:

Also, as you said, you can provide excellent AA cover for your team.

 

I fail to see how you're providing AA in a position such as the one shown in the screenshot.

Since you'll want to hide behind hard cover when doing something like this it'll inevitably block your AA.

 

And honestly you should've evacuated earlier as there is a fundamental problem when the enemy comes too close. Your returning planes can get shot down, denying you plane reserves. There is a happy medium between being too reckless and too safe, represented perfectly by you and the Furious in this particular example. Sitting somewhere in between would've been ideal. The match could've easily resulted in a loss had the enemy CVs been even halfway competent. Killing both Amagi and Gneisenau should've been no issue at all.

 

I've seen far too many matches thrown away because of a CV positioning too aggressively.

[asalonen]

14 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

There is a happy medium between being too reckless and too safe, represented perfectly by you and the Furious in this particular example. Sitting somewhere in between would've been ideal. 

Agreed, but that's somewhat with hindsight. The reds had exactly 0 ships with strong AA, so it wasn't a concern. I ended stuck behind the island, barely in cover, and was in survival mode. It's definitely an example of almost losing the gamble. 

 

I generally don't assume the enemy CV to be "halfway competent"... The average CV player is not a big threat, skill floor being pretty high.