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shonai

ST, changes to Graf Zeppelin

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German aircraft carrier Graf Zeppelin, tier VIII:

  • Torpedo damage increased from 4 533 to 5 333;
  • Flooding chance increased from 25% to 29%;
  • Bomb normalization improved by 5 degrees.

 

According to the analysis of statistics, the change to the Graf Zeppelin bombers in 0.8.4 was not enough to balance her against other tier VIII CVs. Changes to torpedoes will increase the total damage dealt by the CV, and the improved normalization will increase the effective armor penetration at certain angles and will slightly reduce the number of bomb armed against ship superstructures.

 

Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

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Still the airplanes will die instantly. The problem is the survivability of the airplanes. Especially the rocketplanes are so weak in all aspects, low DMG, and low Hp. 

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Well, it's something, at least. 

 

The torp buffs are good. 

However, the AP bombers are still going to be pathetic, and I'm not talking about the bombs themselves. Rather, the fact that you drop 2 bombs with such massive RNG that even perfect aimed and timed drops habitually miss completely. 

 

But yeah. On top of the last buffs, 5 degree greater normalization... we'll see. 

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Thank you for the information and that you had a look into the worse GZ performance.

 

When can we expect this changes to go life? Would really appreciate such a fast hotfix as you did when you nerved the torpedoes in May (in the morning announced and the fix went life the same day at 1400)

 

Best regards

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I feel the need to add that dive bombers drop too few bombs to have such bad rng, if they were HE it wouldn't matter, they'd do damage wherever they fall, but AP needs to hit vital parts of ship just like surface ships ap shells to do any considerable damage. Maybe revert the dispersion to what it was before the nerf but reduce the maximum damage?

And rockets could also either get a speed or health buff, the way they are now even tier 7 ships rip them apart with continuous dps(not flak, I can dodge flak) so fast that I often can't even commence an attack:Smile_teethhappy:

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14 minutes ago, s73r01d said:

Give planes speed back, that ship selling point was the aircraft speed, which is gone now!

 

Honestly the main reason I bought it was the jericho trumpets(sirens) on dive bombers :Smile_veryhappy:

then speed.

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While it is good to see that there are some issues addressed I doubt that this will be remotely enough to fix her in her pitiful state she is in. She was the worst T8 CV before the Nerf and now she is the worst by a Pretty comfy margin.

 

I am curious if the normalization fixes teh abysmal AP bombs but I doubt it.

 

I think she Needs:

 

  • old Speed boost back OR significant HP buff to the planes
  • AND drastic AP pen increase OR different dive pattern
  • AND higher torp Damage (higher as in much higher)

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3 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

While it is good to see that there are some issues addressed I doubt that this won't be enough to fix her in her pitiful state she is in. She was the worst T8 CV before the Nerf and now she is the worst by a Pretty comfy margin.

 

I am curious if the normalization fixes teh abysmal AP bombs but I doubt it.

 

I think she Needs:

 

  • old Speed boost back OR significant HP buff to the planes
  • AND drastic AP pen increase OR different dive pattern
  • AND higher torp Damage (higher as in much higher)

 

I agree with those points. Each tier 8 premium CV in their current form have something going for them except Graf Zeppelin. Kaga has enormous reserves, Saipan tier 10 planes, Enterprise....well overall it's good idk much about its characteristics..

only Graf Zeppelin has well....nothing....at least it had speed before the nerf but even then it wasn't as good as other tier 8 CVs :Smile_sceptic:

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15 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

While it is good to see that there are some issues addressed I doubt that this will be remotely enough to fix her in her pitiful state she is in. She was the worst T8 CV before the Nerf and now she is the worst by a Pretty comfy margin.

 

I am curious if the normalization fixes teh abysmal AP bombs but I doubt it.

 

I think she Needs:

 

  • old Speed boost back OR significant HP buff to the planes
  • AND drastic AP pen increase OR different dive pattern
  • AND higher torp Damage (higher as in much higher)
  • maybe
  • No, the AP bombs will not get better with a better pen. they already have the second most pen out of all AP bombs. The issue is the flight pattern and we can only hope 5 degrees of normalisation helps there, to keep bombs from ricochetting off or penning through some upper deck but too shallow to ever hit a citadel.
  • No. The current buff imo is good for bringing the torp bombers back to where theywere before speed nerf in terms of dpm. Any buff in lethality should now go to the dive bombers, as the current state of the ship, just like before, is that the torp bombers are the go-to plane type all the time and the AP bombers are just some utter niche plane you use when out of torp bombers or you feel like challenging yourself. it always was that due to the bad damage output per drop and being harder to line up than the torps and it has only gotten worse with the dive pattern "buff".

And no, normalisation alone doesn't make it better, because frankly, the dive pattern fucked up more than what normalisation can fix. The new dive pattern also reduces time for aiming and at times shells don't even land within the friggin circle. Only WG thinks that this is somehow "useful" to have this fast a dive.

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1 hour ago, Cagliostro_chan said:
  • No, the AP bombs will not get better with a better pen. they already have the second most pen out of all AP bombs. The issue is the flight pattern and we can only hope 5 degrees of normalisation helps there, to keep bombs from ricochetting off or penning through some upper deck but too shallow to ever hit a citadel.

 

May I ask, where can I find the exact NUMBERS for this? I'm searching the internet like a mad man trying to find the exact numbers for pen, bomb speed and other characteristics but can't find anything. I was resorting to testing which ships I can citadel with ap bombs without using boost at all to find approximate values lmao :Smile_teethhappy:

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1 minute ago, Filipin00 said:

 

May I ask, where can I find the exact NUMBERS for this? I'm searching the internet like a mad man trying to find the exact numbers for pen, bomb speed and other characteristics but can't find anything. I was resorting to testing which ships I can citadel with ap bombs without using boost at all to find approximate values lmao :Smile_teethhappy:

Don't have the time to look them up, but I think S_O dropped them in a QnA once. GZ is second best behind Hakuryu.

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31 minutes ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

Don't have the time to look them up, but I think S_O dropped them in a QnA once. GZ is second best behind Hakuryu.

So, if we consider nominal approach when attacking - the one without using speed boost for neither speeding nor slowing down, before or during an attack, if it hit citadel of a bismarck/tirpitz with all 4 attacks (that I did), then nominal penetration would be like....superstructure 16mm + deck 20something mm plus citadel armor around ~130...?:fish_book:

Would that be like the correct way to calculate? Because after figuring that out I had over 300% success rate in hitting any ship citadel regardless of ship type, by simply adjusting plane diving speed during attack, I was able to do 5,6 or 7 citadels per battle, before I barely did 1 citadel hit in 5 battles :Smile_teethhappy:

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17 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

While it is good to see that there are some issues addressed I doubt that this will be remotely enough to fix her in her pitiful state she is in. She was the worst T8 CV before the Nerf and now she is the worst by a Pretty comfy margin.

 

I am curious if the normalization fixes teh abysmal AP bombs but I doubt it.

 

I think she Needs:

 

  • old Speed boost back OR significant HP buff to the planes
  • AND drastic AP pen increase OR different dive pattern
  • AND higher torp Damage (higher as in much higher)

AP bomb penetration rarely is an issue, thickest deck plating you will ever encounter is 200mm + 57mm main deck on Yamato, something that even Shokaku can on good day punch through. Main AP bomb limitation is short fuse time, so bomb doesn't reach citadel

 

34 minutes ago, Filipin00 said:

So, if we consider nominal approach when attacking - the one without using speed boost for neither speeding nor slowing down, before or during an attack, if it hit citadel of a bismarck/tirpitz with all 4 attacks (that I did), then nominal penetration would be like....superstructure 16mm + deck 20something mm plus citadel armor around ~130...?:fish_book:

Would that be like the correct way to calculate? Because after figuring that out I had over 300% success rate in hitting any ship citadel regardless of ship type, by simply adjusting plane diving speed during attack, I was able to do 5,6 or 7 citadels per battle, before I barely did 1 citadel hit in 5 battles :Smile_teethhappy:

What matters for AP bombs is trajectory, as penetration is pretty much not an issue. Dunno about GZ bomb drop pattern, but on IJN you can get bit steeper dive when slowing down.

And AFAIK penetration is subtracted for simplicity

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Imo the biggest issue of the GZ ap bombs is that they are useless due to only dropping two which drop as inaccurate as can be and in turn if both would hit a citadel at the same time would only do a total of 14k damage. This compared to say an 18k+fire chance of a Lexington makes it a joke to use. Even the enterprise throws off more bombs with a higher bomb damage potential. 

 

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47 minutes ago, leeuwbart said:

Imo the biggest issue of the GZ ap bombs is that they are useless due to only dropping two which drop as inaccurate as can be and in turn if both would hit a citadel at the same time would only do a total of 14k damage. This compared to say an 18k+fire chance of a Lexington makes it a joke to use. Even the enterprise throws off more bombs with a higher bomb damage potential. 

 

Then the solution is simple, either change the squadron to have 9 planes with 3 on each attack run, or improve RNG :cap_yes:

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So - as the dedicated GZ threads get all closed by the moderators - what is happening with Graf Zeppelin now?

 

The fix was nice but not even close to sufficient. Are there further adjustments planned?

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On 7/12/2019 at 2:17 AM, 1MajorKoenig said:

So - as the dedicated GZ threads get all closed by the moderators - what is happening with Graf Zeppelin now?

 

The fix was nice but not even close to sufficient. Are there further adjustments planned?

I have to add something here

Dive bombers are severely underperforming - I find it disturbing how an almost same priced Enterprise can do a whooping 15-20k damage per drop with all the citadels while Graf Zeppelin struggles to even connect bombs let alone do full damage, losing 8 planes to do 700 damage is a bad risk/reward ratio you know......? And people paid money for it, I expect at least being able to do what tech tree counterparts can(shokaku hits more citadels than Graf Zeppelin)

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