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___V_E_N_O_M___

Can you play the Stalingrad like an Alaska or Kron?

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i.e. as an open water cruiser, it has a powerful MB but feels handicapped if it can only be effective bow in?

 

All the stalins I ever see just camp an island and shoot forward ....

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Quality Poster, In AlfaTesters
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The citadel of the Stalingrad is large and easily penetrated, Stalingrad also has very poor agility, with a very long 12.5s rudder shift time and a turning circle of 1130m exceeding most battleships and rivaling CVs. Its only saving grace in terms of mobility comes in the form of its surprising top speed.

 

If threatened from the side Stalingrad requires far too much time to react and change position and if subject to crossfire can quickly fall to AP damage if unable to sufficiently angle against the threats. Because of this, keeping distance is one of the best ways to keep Stalingrads very vulnerable flanks safe. Using Stalingrads speed can quickly lead you to overextend and that only further increases the risk of exposing your flank to something with the capability to delete Stalingrad.

 

Further to this, Stalingrad doesn't have the option of bringing Hydroacoustic Search to battles, so you must rely on DDs being spotted and personal ability to predict potential torpedo attacks without the confirmation of Hydro to provide added reaction time. Without reliable intelligence of enemy DDs, maintaining distance is again the best way to reduce the risk of potentially lethal torpedo damage.

 

Lastly is Stalingrads terrible concealment, 17.58km as stock, 14.2km at best, leaves it with a worse concealment than most BBs as well forcing the ship to maintain a great distance if it ever wishes to disengage. While it can be safest at a distance, HE shells with 50mm penetration such as Hinden and IFHE Henris, risk of being outflanked and significant numbers of fires (which burn for 43 seconds on Stalingrad, even with a full survivability build) will all give a Stalin a reason to want to disengage and recover which it cannot do if it has gotten too close to the engagement.

 

Not only are Stalingrads weaknesses compensated for by keeping a distance, but her main battery holds extremely good penetration at a distance and the shell velocity makes reaching out to targets at maximum range easier than in many other tier 10s. It's also easier to take advantage of Stalingrads armor scheme at a distance, reducing the attack surface of the ship, with the bottom half of the bow too thick for any AP to overmatch and the 50mm deck also causing ricochets against the majority of AP shells leaves only the 25mm upper bow and bow deck vulnerable to large calibre AP.

 

I am certain you will find much more success playing Stalingrad with caution, the powerful AP on such a platform can make it a great opportunist to punish cruisers and BBs who overextend or fail to protect their sides, but likewise Stalingrads can quickly be punished for misplaying and it can be very difficult to salvage the situation if you misposition the ship.

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4 hours ago, Astolfo_Is_My_Waifu said:

The citadel of the Stalingrad is large and easily penetrated, Stalingrad also has very poor agility, with a very long 12.5s rudder shift time and a turning circle of 1130m exceeding most battleships and rivaling CVs. Its only saving grace in terms of mobility comes in the form of its surprising top speed.

 

If threatened from the side Stalingrad requires far too much time to react and change position and if subject to crossfire can quickly fall to AP damage if unable to sufficiently angle against the threats. Because of this, keeping distance is one of the best ways to keep Stalingrads very vulnerable flanks safe. Using Stalingrads speed can quickly lead you to overextend and that only further increases the risk of exposing your flank to something with the capability to delete Stalingrad.

 

Further to this, Stalingrad doesn't have the option of bringing Hydroacoustic Search to battles, so you must rely on DDs being spotted and personal ability to predict potential torpedo attacks without the confirmation of Hydro to provide added reaction time. Without reliable intelligence of enemy DDs, maintaining distance is again the best way to reduce the risk of potentially lethal torpedo damage.

 

Lastly is Stalingrads terrible concealment, 17.58km as stock, 14.2km at best, leaves it with a worse concealment than most BBs as well forcing the ship to maintain a great distance if it ever wishes to disengage. While it can be safest at a distance, HE shells with 50mm penetration such as Hinden and IFHE Henris, risk of being outflanked and significant numbers of fires (which burn for 43 seconds on Stalingrad, even with a full survivability build) will all give a Stalin a reason to want to disengage and recover which it cannot do if it has gotten too close to the engagement.

 

Not only are Stalingrads weaknesses compensated for by keeping a distance, but her main battery holds extremely good penetration at a distance and the shell velocity makes reaching out to targets at maximum range easier than in many other tier 10s. It's also easier to take advantage of Stalingrads armor scheme at a distance, reducing the attack surface of the ship, with the bottom half of the bow too thick for any AP to overmatch and the 50mm deck also causing ricochets against the majority of AP shells leaves only the 25mm upper bow and bow deck vulnerable to large calibre AP.

 

I am certain you will find much more success playing Stalingrad with caution, the powerful AP on such a platform can make it a great opportunist to punish cruisers and BBs who overextend or fail to protect their sides, but likewise Stalingrads can quickly be punished for misplaying and it can be very difficult to salvage the situation if you misposition the ship.

I play my Stalin angled at range on the edge of its concealment. Bow tanking islands is a job for a desmo. 

 

You have excellent guns and excellent pen and I quite happily farm citadels at 20km. From mid game, I move in and put the radar to work to secure and hold a cap but once you’ve committed that’s it. Very hard to move on - just keep away from IFHEnrys.

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[FJAKA]
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6 hours ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

i.e. as an open water cruiser, it has a powerful MB but feels handicapped if it can only be effective bow in?

 

All the stalins I ever see just camp an island and shoot forward ....

more or a less yes, Stalingrad is position cruiser with devastating crossfire ability. His worst enemies ate IFHE Henry (range) and DM (close) that will eat them alive due to low DPM of Stalingrad to angled targets

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In randoms, it'd recommend it over anything since you don't have the usual security that clanmates provide in keep your flanks clear. After all sitting next to an island is only good protection for as long as no one gets your other side and I wouldn't trust a random teammate to help much if at all.

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If you have a div mate or some randoms that are willing pick a line 1 or 10 and push down it and punish the enemy's broadside. This can back fire tho...

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Good advice from @Astolfo_Is_My_Waifu so that much to add.

 

You play your ships to their strengths. People don't always (including me) do that and wonder why it isn't working as much. Easier said then done. 

 

Camping at an island protects one of it's sides and give a place to hide when under alot of HE spam.  Now, other cruisers go down faster, but its the grads only real weakness armour wise so you need to cover that regardless.

 

That doesn't always mean camping bow-on, but keeping a distance.  If you are always bow-on, your not using 1/3 of your firepower. Just keep at range and use those stupidly deadly accurate guns to your advantage. 

 

Bow-on is great if you can read the lay-out of the map and assessing choke points.  If you know that the enemy has to come around half the map just to expose your broadside, then your 1/2 safe for most of the game.  It's nose and angled is fantastic for a cruiser.  I am always looking at the map and planning my next move in the Grad, but you have time to do that as your slowing edging forward.

 

Ploughing forward at the start in a Grad which can be spotted from the moon isnt a great idea.  A Des/ Woster ect can do that, you really can't. You let the game develop then slowly edge forwards.  Remember, Starlin approved guns will make sure your always hitting something hard from across the map.  That's why it is so deadly. 

 

Game starts and I immediately look for a position i can get to without exposing myself, islands are great for that.  Even move slightly backward if i have to because being spotted when trying to get somewhere isn't a good idea.  But when your nestled into a good spot, it's incredibly difficult to dig you out.  IFHE Henri's wreck tier 10 BB ships and your no different. No heavy armoured ship is safe from a Henri really (well, until the Krem showed up, whats the odds). 

 

So....Move slowly but surely and you will do more than fine. In randoms with 12 enemy ships scurrying around the map, you ALWAYS get a broadside to shoot at because you have the tools to do it with. 

 

Now the Alaska is more of medium range support ship.  It's more of a multi role ship and operates closer to the front line. 

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Oh, creating a "L" as i call it.

 

Move forward (maybe what, 1/4 - 1/2 half up the map)   until you see a opportunity to suddenly shunt into a space that gives you broadside protection from the enemy and then simply shoot into the flanks of the enemy trying to push your weak side.

 

Now any ship can do this, but it's the Grads hard hitting guns, bow-on madness and range that can touch everyone on the map which makes it really shine.  It can suddenly stop any enemy push they might have.

 

Hence why it's strong in CB with only 7 players. 

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7 hours ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

i.e. as an open water cruiser, it has a powerful MB but feels handicapped if it can only be effective bow in?

 

All the stalins I ever see just camp an island and shoot forward ....

I am bit confused. 

 

You can't play Stalin as Alaska but you definitely MUST play it as Kronstadt. 

 

You CANNOT play Kronshtadt as Alaska either. 

 

In essence Kronstadt is weaker Stalingrad which trade accuracy and survivability for slightly better concealment and maneuver ability. 

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2 minutes ago, Episparh said:

In essence Kronstadt is weaker Stalingrad which trade accuracy and survivability for slightly better concealment and maneuver ability. 

 

That is such a bad trade off :Smile_teethhappy:

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6 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

You will have to, because I delete every stationary Stalingrad immediately in my Hakuryu. :Smile_trollface:

 

Like you can with most ships.  The Grad really isn't any different.  You can death drop a Des and Mino so....

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1 hour ago, Redcap375 said:

 

That is such a bad trade off :Smile_teethhappy:

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. 

 

P. S. I still like my Kronshtadt more than Stalingrad. She requires special care and every good battle in her feels like achievement. Stalingrad on other hand just made me feel dirty even if I just think of getting her to randoms. 

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10 hours ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

i.e. as an open water cruiser, it has a powerful MB but feels handicapped if it can only be effective bow in?

 

All the stalins I ever see just camp an island and shoot forward ....

Stalingrads in the open are just vulnerable, caught one trying to push up the side of the map last time I played Roma and he lost what was more or less a 1v1 with a tier 8 BB.

 

I don’t have a Stalingrad but it looks pretty similar to a Kronstadt except the accuracy, if so they play best in a cover position going for crossfire into enemy broadsides.

 

Where Alaska is very different, much tougher and has better capabilities vs angled enemies, you can play closer and more mobile.

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16 minutes ago, Alex_Connor said:

Stalingrads in the open are just vulnerable, caught one trying to push up the side of the map last time I played Roma and he lost what was more or less a 1v1 with a tier 8 BB.

 

I don’t have a Stalingrad but it looks pretty similar to a Kronstadt except the accuracy, if so they play best in a cover position going for crossfire into enemy broadsides.

 

Where Alaska is very different, much tougher and has better capabilities vs angled enemies, you can play closer and more mobile.

I dunno, playing the Stalin in a stationary position feels so vulnerable. You get rushed by DDs, long-range he spammed or cv raped. 

 

Open water doesn't mean, sit nose in stationary at 20km. Open water means sailing in a kiting position being able to turn away when pushed and turn in if the situation asks for it. 

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4 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

I dunno, playing the Stalin in a stationary position feels so vulnerable. You get rushed by DDs, long-range he spammed or cv raped. 

 

Open water doesn't mean, sit nose in stationary at 20km. Open water means sailing in a kiting position being able to turn away when pushed and turn in if the situation asks for it. 

Well, going off Kronstadt experience I don’t play the ship in cover all the time, in fact moving use of cover seems to work best but you are quite limited and vulnerable in mobile mid-range play because BBs can and will citadel the ship from any angle (both playing with and against Kronstadt). 

 

I haven’t had as much experience against Stalingrad but they also seem to eat citadels very easily.

 

Of course both ships are devastating in mid-range because of the firepower but they can also get deleted or crippled in seconds so it’s a risky game.

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15 minutes ago, Alex_Connor said:

Well, going off Kronstadt experience I don’t play the ship in cover all the time, in fact moving use of cover seems to work best but you are quite limited and vulnerable in mobile mid-range play because BBs can and will citadel the ship from any angle (both playing with and against Kronstadt). 

 

I haven’t had as much experience against Stalingrad but they also seem to eat citadels very easily.

 

Of course both ships are devastating in mid-range because of the firepower but they can also get deleted or crippled in seconds so it’s a risky game.

Yeah indeed, if you lose focus for a second and neglect your angling towards the enemies you can lose a great portion of your HP with a single salvo. But in essence that counts for every cruiser ofcourse.

I'd recommend playing the longerange Stalin at the start of the game. The shells are so fast that you cant shoot over most island if your close to them, which makes large open water areas excellent for this ship.

Combine that with the great range at which it can still deliver accurate salvos and voila: A longerange citadel monster.

Most enemies do not angle against enemies 20km away and that is exactly where this ship shines.

Only when the enemies are fewer dare I go in closer with the stalin. TFewer enemies make angling towards them easier. Because you have to make absolutely sure that your sides are safe, otherwise you push into crossfires.

 

 

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[MORIA]
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I'm playing it like Moskva. Both have same front armour and both are having almost same concealment and range. At the beginning you have to be bit passive, then go forward. Overextending can be punished hard. 

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