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HMS Lion....

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Your thoughts please, sometimes I have good games in the Monarch, enough to get up to the Lion, now fully pimped out, even to the point of the larger guns, in fact, talking of guns which are the most consistently reliable,the 406's or the 419 mm?

 

 

Obviously my next tier X will be the Conqueror, so how does that fare against Yamato's and the new Kremlin not to mention Monty' and Republique's, and the odd Kurnfurst thrown in for good measure?

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1 hour ago, NoobySkooby said:

Your thoughts please, sometimes I have good games in the Monarch, enough to get up to the Lion, now fully pimped out, even to the point of the larger guns, in fact, talking of guns which are the most consistently reliable,the 406's or the 419 mm?

Lion's guns are garbage, whatever option you choose. 

Saying "consistently reliable" in a sentence when talking about Lion's armament is quite funny.

I hate that ship, because the shells land everywhere except where you aimed, even at close range.

I'm winning nearly all my games with her, but I'll most likely spend free exp to unlock Conqueror soon, because Lions guns are extremely frustrating.

At least, conq has 12 of them, and that should lead to more shell hits...

 

1 hour ago, NoobySkooby said:

Obviously my next tier X will be the Conqueror, so how does that fare against Yamato's and the new Kremlin not to mention Monty' and Republique's, and the odd Kurnfurst thrown in for good measure?

I'm not an expert, but from what I've seen Yamato and Republique are excellent. If you want consistent guns, you should go for the Jap or French tier 10, or eventually the Monty, always a solid choice. Can't speak about Kremlin yet as I'm still grinding the line, and Kurfurst is... meh now. I'd say the successive Conq nerfs put her in a difficult spot, but I think she will receive a buff of some sort soon, no? Someone might confirm this.

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4 hours ago, NoobySkooby said:

Your thoughts please, sometimes I have good games in the Monarch, enough to get up to the Lion, now fully pimped out, even to the point of the larger guns, in fact, talking of guns which are the most consistently reliable,the 406's or the 419 mm?

 

 

Obviously my next tier X will be the Conqueror, so how does that fare against Yamato's and the new Kremlin not to mention Monty' and Republique's, and the odd Kurnfurst thrown in for good measure?

What does it matter how good the guns are. 7 games in a Monarch and you are now on a Lion...usual pattern for you. Why don't you learn the game first before heading off to T10.....I really don't get where you actually get your enjoyment in playing from. And as for your question about the Conquerer.....you will be no threat  :Smile_sad:

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I took the 419th. More Damage same reload. Damagewise Lion is ok. But Guns seem not very accurate. If RNGsus loves you, you get good Damage with HE  and fires and dont forget the AP. The thing with Lion is to not get in focusfire. There is a long cooldown between Superheals.  

 

The other thing is, that you should use Orion, not  Lion to play. This i guess this  would obviously better for your teammates nerves also. I dont mean this impolite. But Hightier is not the Tier to learn basics. 

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3 hours ago, bushwacker001 said:

What does it matter how good the guns are. 7 games in a Monarch and you are now on a Lion...usual pattern for you. Why don't you learn the game first before heading off to T10.....I really don't get where you actually get your enjoyment in playing from. And as for your question about the Conquerer.....you will be no threat  :Smile_sad:

Wow, you sound like a certain someone from WoT's, I forget who now, tier X is the end game,and as I have so many day premium I am not going anywhere, but thank you for your thoughts, just because I have the tier X does not mean I always play them.

 

By team mates you mean those that cut and run and don't push,or cap when they can, yeah those team mate I couldn't give a stuff about, however I will support those that do.

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21 minutes ago, belalugosisdead said:

I took the 419th. More Damage same reload. Damagewise Lion is ok. But Guns seem not very accurate. If RNGsus loves you, you get good Damage with HE  and fires and dont forget the AP. The thing with Lion is to not get in focusfire. There is a long cooldown between Superheals.  

 

The other thing is, that you should use Orion, not  Lion to play. This i guess this  would obviously better for your teammates nerves also. I dont mean this impolite. But Hightier is not the Tier to learn basics. 

Ah yeah the Orion,forgot about her, all true but low tiers are no fun if you are up tiered all the time, and I am quite  away of the Conq yet anyway, but again thank you for your thoughts.

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5 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

Wow, you sound like a certain someone from WoT's, I forget who now, tier X is the end game,and as I have so many day premium I am not going anywhere, but thank you for your thoughts, just because I have the tier X does not mean I always play them.

No surprise that you have heard it all before then....

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2 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

No surprise I am stubborn too,

Not always a good thing..... a will to learn would be a better quality.

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26 minutes ago, bushwacker001 said:

Not always a good thing..... a will to learn would be a better quality.

The people I play do teach, and are more than helpful, plus they build up confidence too, none of which I suppose you would do, but hey ho nvm.

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26 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

The people I play do teach, and are more than helpful, plus they build up confidence too, none of which I suppose you would do, but hey ho nvm.

But what do they teach you? for example, in your OP you state "sometimes I have good games in the Monarch, enough to get up to the Lion, now fully pimped out, even to the point of the larger guns"

Well 7 battles in a Monarch is learning nothing and still you move to a Lion. You should be told to learn a ship before moving up so basically anything you are taught (if you actually are) is wasted...you fail to do this over and over, just free XP them.

I am trying to write this without insulting you by the way. I am sure you must have been told to learn your ships before moving up a tier in the past. 

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You don’t see too many Lions but plenty of Conquerors, that’s the best indicator for you. It’s a moot point anyway as you seem intent to just rip through the tiers! But in the end that’s your choice mate.

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Okay - Lion. Here's what I've learned in mine (halfway to Conq.).

 

Monarch suffered from anaemic AP that struggled at T8. Yes, it was good for blapping cruisers. Yes, it was okay if at close range and pumping shells into a BB broadside. However it just didn't cut it compared to other guns at the tier - I think even the German 15" is better (although good luck hitting anything with it). HE is a cliché but it kind of is a needed alternative vs. any hard target at long range or anything heavy that angles.

 

Lion also suffers from similarly pants AP that struggles at T9. The same caveats apply. Cruisers make excellent targets for it's AP - after all it may be a bit crap in pen vs. BBs but it isn't so much a problem if you find something softer to dump on. At close ranges - e.g. where your shells virtually fly horizontally - they are punishing if you find a nice flat surface to smack them into. Lob HE when closing in - switch to AP once you get into effective combat range but be willing to change back to HE if you encounter a hard target that is angled.

 

Specific to the Lion I also found the third turret to be an utter pain - don't be tempted to swing your ship around to use it unless you are CERTAIN nobody happens to be looking/shooting at you. Concealment is VITAL - you want to be constantly skirting into and out of concealment range - not getting too close but not getting so far away that those AP shells lose their bite. Kind of like the fast-battleship style of the Missouri or Iowa - around 12km and maintaining that range as appropriate. The Lion isn't quick and it isn't agile - but I've found using it this way had worked reasonably well.

 

Treat the Lion as a fairly unarmoured ship - you'll take plenty of AP damage from BBs, heavy cruisers and 'super-cruisers' like the Alaska/Krondstadt. Your main 'armour' is concealment - choosing when to engage and when to stop shooting is a constant decision-making process. Your heal is fantastic but takes an age to recharge - so the key is to fight your battles in short bursts - break out of concealment, do some shooting, get shot a bit in return, go back into concealment and heal up. Rinse and repeat. Do not get into a drawn-out shell-trading contest or slugging match - your low HP pool and poor armour mean you lack the sustained staying power of other T9 BBs.

 

AA is pretty good but primarily for self-defence - use the sector system and you can sometimes inflict plane losses that will make a CV bugger off and ruin someone else's game for a while instead. 

 

 

 

 

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The Lion....Yeah, hummm.

 

It's better then the Monarch IMHO, alot worse than the Conq about sums it up.

 

When you say the word "Lion" i immediatly think of shell inconsistency and accuracy. In fact, more than any other (maybe the Yam sometimes). 

 

AP is meh, Armour is very meh, turn and agility is meh, range is meh.  It's a big bag of Meh apart from the Somewhat good HE and usable concealment, quite good AA too i would say.  All good, but nothing great.

 

I originally thought (before using it) that it would finally be my BB tier 9 keeper (before the Alsace came out).  yeah, got the Conq and sold it:Smile_teethhappy:.

 

Sovetsky Soyuz U.S.S.R. 14 555 54.06 % 0.87 77 537 1 843 3.86 1.50 Missouri U.S.A. 3 602 856 53.43 % 0.80 67 789 1 630 2.56 1.35 Musashi Japan 2 043 237 52.50 % 0.82 82 352 1 600 0.88 1.58 Alsace France 1 686 967 51.93 % 0.80 70 415 1 556 1.94 1.36 Jean Bart France 794 026 51.69 % 0.84 79 405 1 727 3.78 1.39 Lion U.K. 1 168 824 50.87 % 0.67 71 728 1 525 1.72 1.39 Iowa U.S.A. 5 313 696 48.76 % 0.65 58 264 1 330 2.45 1.11 Friedrich der Große Germany 4 597 365 48.67 % 0.59 54 861 1 266 1.62 0.97 Izumo Japan 3 336 446 48.34 % 0.60 56 321 1 357 1.39 0.98

 

Smack in the middle of "meh land". 

 

The rest of the tier is about right (WR wise).  Missouri is..Well yeah, that BB.  The Musashi is just a monster in a tier 7-8-9 games.  The Alsace is solid (but nerfed) and the Jean Bart rewards a certain play style.  Iowa gets deleted when broadside quick time and the poor FdG is in the wrong meta.

 

So glad the Izumo is last as I HATED that ship with a passion. Else i would have to admit that it's a "get gud" comment will be trown at me. :Smile_hiding:

 

On 6/5/2019 at 2:04 AM, NoobySkooby said:

Your thoughts please, sometimes I have good games in the Monarch, enough to get up to the Lion, now fully pimped out, even to the point of the larger guns, in fact, talking of guns which are the most consistently reliable,the 406's or the 419 mm?

 

Obviously my next tier X will be the Conqueror, so how does that fare against Yamato's and the new Kremlin not to mention Monty' and Republique's, and the odd Kurnfurst thrown in for good measure?

 

Each tier 10 BB will own you if you want the brutal truth mate.  If all things are equal.  But you are a tier 9 remember, you probably already know that. 

 

The Yam will course horrific AP damage, The Monty with outgun you both in HE and AP, The Kurf will out gun/armour (use HE only) you and god forbid he gets within secondary range with IFHE, The Republic with simply wreak your face with AP every 20- secs regardless if your angled, the Conq will burn you to a crisp with more guns and HE damage and the Kemil will.....Yeah, bow-on and curve stomp you through the nose.. 

 

But you will fair alot better with tier 9's.  However, its the guns that really did my head in.

 

Tactics

Shoot and scoot, use that decent concealment to your advantage.  You get into a knife fight...Your dead.  You shoot it out with 3/4 of the BB's...Your dead.  So play like an Exerter.  Get into that lovely position and open up.  Cause that fire and stack damage, in and out of visibility. Your AA is good defensively so your better off against planes than some. 

 

When you see a Cruiser, switch to AP and you can devastate it (and wont over pen than say the Yam). Don't just also rely on your HE which alot of people do.  it works, but not great when you could have wiped the floor with that Broadside cruiser. 

 

There are worse tier 9 BB's so it's not all bad. But man those guns really never worked for me.  Some games they just didn't go where i aimed and had a mind of it's own. 

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Well I tried to use the AP when possible and was rewarded with at most 1 over-pen... hence why I mostly stuck with HE unless at close ranges cause the AP does work when 2km from a broadside Yamato, though immediately after I fired a full salvo at an also broadside Worcester at 6km and got 0 hits... had another incident where the enemy Lion 5km from me was on 2k HP left and I just needed to hit it with the rear turret... Middle shell went low into the water, left shell went High over the rear turret and the right shell went high over the front turrets...

 

Also had an incident where I could not hit a stationary bow in Moskva reliably with HE at 9km, I think the most hits I got in a Salvo was 2 and most didn't even hit it at all...

 

Thank god the Conqueror can actually hit things... most games I have had so far in it I have been mostly using the AP with reasonable results...

 

I think the poor accuracy was meant to balance out the god damn OP HE shells, but all it does is punish good ammo selection, if WG ever realise that they F***'d up the line completely and revisit it and make the HE more normal and the AP normal as well then we can have reasonable accuracy to go with it... But I don't see that happening this decade, luckily there are 3 Premiums with normal AP and good accuracy (Warspite, Hood & Vanguard) and the announced Thunderer is also meant to be similar in play-style to the Vanguard... hopefully they turn down the stupid HE before release...

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14 hours ago, NoobySkooby said:

Your thoughts please, sometimes I have good games in the Monarch, enough to get up to the Lion, now fully pimped out, even to the point of the larger guns, in fact, talking of guns which are the most consistently reliable,the 406's or the 419 mm?

Take the fatter ones, they are same as Conqueror - and have no disadvantages over the smaller ones.

They'll just give more pen/more damage. The guns have better accuracy than Monarch, or so it seemed to me. 

 

How you play this ship - use the STEALTH and the fire chance (put the two fire flags on it). 

Also, SPEC THE CAPTAIN. He must have the concealment skill. This must ALSO be on the ship... 

Further, make it a tank-build. With the extra  consumables-perk. It will be almost impossible to kill. 

 

The way to play it, get neart other ships but make sure you have a way out... what I usually did was approach to to the detection-limit,

have the proper ammo loaded (more on that later) and turn broadside (unspotted) - then FIRE when already turning away. 

In 20 secs you are gone from view... change direction.. repeat...

 

One thing it is GOOD at is blapping cruisers (that do not know you are there). Cruisers WILL go broadside to try and get your DD...

So I usually was even closer to the DD that my own cruisers... and BLAPPED a lot of red cruisers... USE AP FOR THAT.

But watch the red DDs... you can also blap these, no matter what angle - use HE. ALso the HE is suprisingly effective for shooting DDS at upto 14km or so.

Make sure every game you pump HE in every BB you see... start fires...it PAYS OFF to wwatch when a BB puts out a fire... count to 20... set him on fire again.

I used to stop shooting at a BB when he had ONE fire... see if he lets it burn (20k for you) and if not... Hehehehehh (HE HE HE...).

 

Main thing... keep the distance such that you can always stealth up by just turning tail on them and stopping firing. 

Then, when you have 'disappeared', go other direction and use the heal.

 

14 hours ago, NoobySkooby said:

Obviously my next tier X will be the Conqueror, so how does that fare against Yamato's and the new Kremlin not to mention Monty' and Republique's, and the odd Kurnfurst thrown in for good measure?

Rule 1: NEVER try to take on one of those 1 vs 1... unless you have much more health than them. 

Because THEY WILL shoot you down to 1/4 health, and be able to kick you down so much your ZOMBIEheal will not save you.

But... remember where you are strong... which is at ~15km... and AT LEAST that distance in case of Kurfurst.

Rule 2:

- never fight fair... if somebody else spots them, why should you? Stay hidden... wait your chance.

- never fight fair: if you spot them, somebody else is spamming them, why not wait until they sc how broadside?

THE AP IS GOOD. Use it, when the occasion comes - or better: MAKE the occasion come.

You can BLAP a broadside Yamato to < 50%... multi-citadels no problem.

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Some jolly good advice there guys and many thanks, much appreciated:cap_like:

 

One or two people raised certain things and I will attempt to address these now, first and foremost, yes I like to grind up the lines, all that way, i am in a clan and when other clan members want a certain tier in a battle, i can match them, secondly I like all my ships elite. (too much time in WoT's possibly)

 

As to learning, and more to the point what people teach etc, this is why I am in a clan, they are quite friendly and tolerant of me to which is something I like, other places I learn is here in the forums and on the YouTube vids, even though the vids can be misleading as by and large it is their best games the CC's show (out of how many?)

 

As for different tiers, sure, but bad games can happen in the lowest tiers as well as the higher ones, make no difference to me if  a BB is a tier 4 or a tier 8.

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17 hours ago, NoobySkooby said:

Some jolly good advice there guys and many thanks, much appreciated:cap_like:

No problem. Mind that everyone his his own playstyle... mine may not suit you (in fact it may not suit anyone..).

What I do is follow the DDs closely at first, then shoot whatever sits in/near the cap they want to cap - like Lion (or Conqkek) is a battle cruiser instead of a BB.

AFter taking pkenty damage (being a spam magnet, so they do not shoot our DDs) I use the concealment and then use the heal. If I'm too late then I'm dead.

If not, that means I have a period of (usually) HE-spamming from the rear. This is when you deal with Kurfurst/Montana/that lot. Burn them down as much as possible.

Meanwhile, I look which cap needs assistance and move over there trying to repeat the trick (Zombie-heal shoud be ready to go). Sometimes this means I'll cap in the BB...

Often you face off against the other BBS, which will have moved near the cap - if it is one of those Frenchies he'll try bowtank you.

Which will not work, as you can use the HE - and when he is already burning shoot AP straight at his turrets. I've had it they were kaputt 100% so my secondaries finished him off... :Smile_trollface:

 

17 hours ago, NoobySkooby said:

One or two people raised certain things and I will attempt to address these now, first and foremost, yes I like to grind up the lines, all that way, i am in a clan and when other clan members want a certain tier in a battle, i can match them, secondly I like all my ships elite. (too much time in WoT's possibly)

I'm still grinding too, so far Conqkek is my only TX. Not much interested in the gameplay > T7 though so I'll just keep the ships I like and sell the rest...

 

17 hours ago, NoobySkooby said:

As to learning, and more to the point what people teach etc, this is why I am in a clan, they are quite friendly and tolerant of me to which is something I like, other places I learn is here in the forums and on the YouTube vids, even though the vids can be misleading as by and large it is their best games the CC's show (out of how many?)

I've seen CCs in game... one rammed a Graf Spee, got stuck on an island and then potatoed...:Smile_teethhappy:

 

17 hours ago, NoobySkooby said:

As for different tiers, sure, but bad games can happen in the lowest tiers as well as the higher ones, make no difference to me if  a BB is a tier 4 or a tier 8.

Bad games in high tiers happen just as much (maybe even more) as in low tiers, but at least low tiers do not have insane service cost,

personally I find T5-7 much more fun (and sometimes absolutely hilarious). :Smile_veryhappy:

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