Japan carriers

[Navi001]

I would like to share a few things about playing cv (especially Japan). Do not know if you have a similar feeling...

 

Before cv change, I like play japan cv, they have:

- decent torpedoes (not many, but with high dmg), and always a chance to inflict damaging flood

- he bombs which very fine if you want to finish enemy ship (after torpedo run which causes flood you can try it set in flames)

 

Now I have a feeling that nothing left... (even comparing to other non-japs cv's in the game):

- torpedoes were nerfed (for all cv, and japan cv have (the strongest?)), but...: after the drop and before the show up at the surface is very long, so I can forget about effectively attacking maneuverable ships. It is good for camping/slow/can't move enemies but which enemy playing tier X will be waiting patiently to be torped? Sometimes good for clustered enemies when dropping from different angles, but it takes a long time (comparing to other no-japs cvs) to makes another torpedo run. Another thing - flood, which was the most efficient weapons is nerfed (short, and so damaging).  So..., the most decent weapons of japans cv... is gone.

- so maybe bombs which can set still damaging fire? No, no, no... forget! We can give you know what American carrier had - AP bombs - enjoy! But why? Flooding/fire was a deadly combination - now is gone. Ok, AP are sometimes very useful - the can significant dmg (the most dmg playing Haku is done via 'citadels'), but... like torpedo planes bomber have some (rather long time) to start attack, and even then the eclipse is rather big (surprisingly big comparing to eclipse for  Furious tier VI GB cv - which at the end of aiming is rather small) - why? before cv change, American cv had AP bombs, but their eclipse was smaller than Japan cv HE.

It is true you can hurt or sunk enemy ship with AP bombs, but it is a lottery also - sometimes at he end of aiming (the smallest eclipse and right into the middle of enemy ship): 3 citadels, and sometimes 1 hit, 1 ricochet.

- maybe the missiles planes, at least? They can be deadly for finishing lone, low on life ships, that's true, but comparing to other cvs even in the description it was told that they have rather the weaker missiles among cv...

 

Generally/conclusion:

- fine that japan planes are fast, really fine thing. But... so what? Because when they get in the middle of the action they are more fragile than other non-japan planes (especially GB planes) and combined with rather a long attack preparation time they die sometimes like flies. So what they get faster into action when they die faster there, so at some point (playing Haku) I can have a depleted/almost empty/empty planes squads...

- fast planes are very good at spotting enemy, so in able hands low chance to be left unspotted - it is a great thing for the team, but the much lower chance that you can make a decent dmg for your team

- why do not let the players choose which one's bombs (AP or HE) their bombers will carry? Historically I'm not sure if they had or not AP, however if in-game it is possible for developers to attach fo American or for Japan bombers, AP maybe give to the players' option in port to choose if bombers will carry HE or AP bombs (at the margin: that japan bombers in run can drop 4? bombs and in compare to BG bomber in which 2 bombers in 1 run can drop 6 bombs is rather joke for me (Haku bombers vs. Furious bombers)

-can't be added an attack path for torpedo planes (as is for torpedoes launched from dd)??? - it is very difficult to catch a glimpse of an enemy ship is moving or not, how fast, and in which direction turn.

- at the end: maybe Japan carriers are still powerful cv on paper but in the game, their power is a shadow to what they can do before cv change (speed is not recompensated by changes). Maybe in able hands and when enemy and circumstances allow can as deadly as before, but... how many players playing tier X is inexperienced players which can't handle with enemy planes? Playing Haku now is hard, difficult, i.e. when attacking with torpedo planes I make first run from 10 km and can have very focused torpedoes, then need to turn around back to around 5 km, turn around start 2nd run which give me much more spreaded torpedoes and then again turn around 5 km when enemy ships started changing course for the 4th time? and the angle from which I can well attack need a very long time to approach/very hard maneuverable with planes/impossible cos there is no space to drop torpedoes (drop on island or no way they swim out before reach target)/need to try from side where is lots of enemy ships... but comparing it to Furious: planes are not so fast (ok), but when they get into action I have a feeling they can take much more dmg, and another thing their attack path is... rather short, so: attacking with torpedo planes i can make 1st run, then turn around, almost again turn around and make 2nd run, and then 3rd... no need to fly far away and to calculate if my torps hit island/reach target before they swim out, easy, fun, and efficient (no need to much worry if planes survive - usually enemy aa is not so damaging to them and if is high you see that they started to be damaged (not shot down - first damaged) then you have time to call them off, but Japan planes when enemy fire is high they die like flies, and no chance to save them). So in able hands, you can torped a dd, rather impossible thing trying japan torpedo planes (i have on mind a dd on full speed actively maneuvering).

[22cm]

Now, the short version, please. 

[Profilus]

Use torpedoes that are launched by 2 and u will be fine. Haku is totally ok when u look at it as a player who's using it.

[Bear__Necessities]

IJN CV’s are great.

 

Next. 

[RenamedUser_92906789]

58 minutes ago, Navi001 said:

-can't be added an attack path for torpedo planes (as is for torpedoes launched from dd)??? - it is very difficult to catch a glimpse of an enemy ship is moving or not, how fast, and in which direction turn.

[GulvkluderGuld]

1 hour ago, Navi001 said:

I would like to share a few things about playing cv (especially Japan). Do not know if you have a similar feeling...

 

Before cv change, I like play japan cv, they have:

- decent torpedoes (not many, but with high dmg), and always a chance to inflict damaging flood

- he bombs which very fine if you want to finish enemy ship (after torpedo run which causes flood you can try it set in flames)

That was a LOOOONG time ago.

[anonym_RGvUdEcxWWvD]

The more I improve the less I think Haku needs a buff. I have been crying for a Haku buff for a long time and its time for me to part ways with this nonsense. The current rank meta also heavily favours Haku. There are very little DD so basicaly whats left are Cruisers camping behind islands waiting to be AP bombed or slow manouvering BB who can never dodge my 2 torp setup.

 

Im basicaly always nr 1 on scoreboard so its a easy rank up. Currently ranked 5, and lost star only twice because I tried to save the game. From then on I decided to as soon as I see my BB camping or my dd suiciding, I ignore all game concept and farm dmg so I eventualy dont get dragged down by these clowns. Easy life.

[GulvkluderGuld]

7 minutes ago, Zlaraki said:

The more I improve the less I think Haku needs a buff. I have been crying for a Haku buff for a long time and its time for me to part ways with this nonsense. The current rank meta also heavily favours Haku. There are very little DD so basicaly whats left are Cruisers camping behind islands waiting to be AP bombed or slow manouvering BB who can never dodge my 2 torp setup.

 

Im basicaly always nr 1 on scoreboard so its a easy rank up. Currently ranked 5, and lost star only twice because I tried to save the game. From then on I decided to as soon as I see my BB camping or my dd suiciding, I ignore all game concept and farm dmg so I eventualy dont get dragged down by these clowns. Easy life.

Mirrors my experience too.

 

Minos are a pain in the [edited]tho, as are dds smoking up their cruiser buddies, but that goes for any CV.

 

Haku atm hardcounters DM/Salem and Stalingrad/Moskva so hard it isnt even funny, at least if they kemp island.

[anonym_RGvUdEcxWWvD]

10 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Mirrors my experience too.

 

Minos are a pain in the [edited]tho, as are dds smoking up their cruiser buddies, but that goes for any CV.

 

Haku atm hardcounters DM/Salem and Stalingrad/Moskva so hard it isnt even funny, at least if they kemp island.

I believe Haku counters any camping cruiser but Mino and worchester are indeed a pain in the [edited]. Its basicaly a one way trip if you are going for those 2. I hate DD in my haku and being forced to focus them. I also hate all the BB who I cant citadel which are quite alot nowadays. Mino and worchester should be a nobrainer, so its not always sunshine when it comes to Haku.

[Bear__Necessities]

40 minutes ago, Zlaraki said:

The more I improve the less I think Haku needs a buff. I have been crying for a Haku buff for a long time and its time for me to part ways with this nonsense. The current rank meta also heavily favours Haku. There are very little DD so basicaly whats left are Cruisers camping behind islands waiting to be AP bombed or slow manouvering BB who can never dodge my 2 torp setup.

 

Im basicaly always nr 1 on scoreboard so its a easy rank up. Currently ranked 5, and lost star only twice because I tried to save the game. From then on I decided to as soon as I see my BB camping or my dd suiciding, I ignore all game concept and farm dmg so I eventualy dont get dragged down by these clowns. Easy life.

 

32 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Mirrors my experience too.

 

Minos are a pain in the [edited]tho, as are dds smoking up their cruiser buddies, but that goes for any CV.

 

Haku atm hardcounters DM/Salem and Stalingrad/Moskva so hard it isnt even funny, at least if they kemp island.

 

IJN are very Strong. Hak and Shokaku are DPM monster. Yes you will lose planes AP bombing AA cruisers but unlike HE DB from lex and Midway AP damage lost has a bigger effect on the target. And when you line up a line of torp drops? magnifique! 

 

I'm really enjoying them and have had some great results.

 

Including managing nearly 80k dmg in only 5 mins ish.

 

[Panocek]

26 minutes ago, Zlaraki said:

I believe Haku counters any camping cruiser but Mino and worchester are indeed a pain in the [edited]. Its basicaly a one way trip if you are going for those 2. I hate DD in my haku and being forced to focus them. I also hate all the BB who I cant citadel which are quite alot nowadays. Mino and worchester should be a nobrainer, so its not always sunshine when it comes to Haku.

On other hand, you can stealth spot these two with TB squadron, assuming max concealment build

[Hopeless_Guppy]

1 minute ago, Bear_Necessities said:

 

 

IJN are very Strong. Hak and Shokaku are DPM monster. Yes you will lose planes AP bombing AA cruisers but unlike HE DB from lex and Midway AP damage lost has a bigger effect on the target. And when you line up a line of torp drops? magnifique! 

 

I'm really enjoying them and have had some great results.

 

Including managing nearly 80k dmg in only 5 mins ish.

 

I wish I had your optimism,for me the only good ones are the Ryujo in Ops, and Kaga, which feels weak even though it shouldn't a tier 8, oh how I wish the Shocking had the four torp drop, as for Haku, that thing I cannot even make work in a training room,torps are too slow, you lead the drop, and the ship just turns and avoids, and your planes get deleted on both the Shocking and the Haku.

[Bear__Necessities]

1 minute ago, NoobySkooby said:

I wish I had your optimism,for me the only good ones are the Ryujo in Ops, and Kaga, which feels weak even though it shouldn't a tier 8, oh how I wish the Shocking had the four torp drop, as for Haku, that thing I cannot even make work in a training room,torps are too slow, you lead the drop, and the ship just turns and avoids, and your planes get deleted on both the Shocking and the Haku.

Practice buddy, you'll get to a point where they feel comfortable, I learnt all my skills and Ironed out the kinks playing Ryujo which is why T8 Shok and Hak feel easier. Kaga is ridiculous fun. I won't spam this with results screenies but the potential in all of the IJN CV's is off the charts. 

[CptBarney]

What about brit cv’s are they completely worthless now?

[Hopeless_Guppy]

14 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Practice buddy, you'll get to a point where they feel comfortable, I learnt all my skills and Ironed out the kinks playing Ryujo which is why T8 Shok and Hak feel easier. Kaga is ridiculous fun. I won't spam this with results screenies but the potential in all of the IJN CV's is off the charts. 

Off the charts is right and probably sold for scrap, either tier 8 or 10 do not work for me, same as midway and we are talking co ops here, sub 25 k damage, I don't know what the main damage dealers are on the Shok and Haku but is certainly isn't torpedo's. I know midway it is DB' and rockets that do the trick, bu his is back to front to me,it should be the torps that are the most lethal, torps are the stand off weapon of choices, especially when up against AA ships.

 

I just wish the port section had a berth where you could dock all unwanted ships, like a digital mothball navy.

[Hopeless_Guppy]

Just now, CptBarney said:

What about brit cv’s are they completely worthless now?

Yes, Furious ok for ops, higher that that, I don't think even Einstein could figure out how to make them work, only ever once got a 60k damage game in randoms with the Atrocious and that is only because I was in a division.

 

I personally thing the whole tier'ing of CV's need a rework, ie, Saipan and kaga used to be tier & I am sure of that, so why are they at tiers 8 now?

 

Not sure where the Atrocious belongs but it sure is not at tier X

[CptBarney]

Hmm maybe the audacious could be out at tier 7 or buffed in the dot area so maybe a focus on he carpet bombers and some torp bombers?

 

or get lusty and the gang in for some propah brish justus ladz!

[anonym_RGvUdEcxWWvD]

19 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

Off the charts is right and probably sold for scrap, either tier 8 or 10 do not work for me, same as midway and we are talking co ops here, sub 25 k damage, I don't know what the main damage dealers are on the Shok and Haku but is certainly isn't torpedo's. I know midway it is DB' and rockets that do the trick, bu his is back to front to me,it should be the torps that are the most lethal, torps are the stand off weapon of choices, especially when up against AA ships.

 

I just wish the port section had a berth where you could dock all unwanted ships, like a digital mothball navy.

Torps are your bread and butter, AP bombs are situational but a good second dmg dealer. Just make sure you are using the 2 torp setup. 4 torps are worthless. I also have my torp speed upgraded to 55 knots. There is no escaping that.

[Hopeless_Guppy]

18 minutes ago, Zlaraki said:

Torps are your bread and butter, AP bombs are situational but a good second dmg dealer. Just make sure you are using the 2 torp setup. 4 torps are worthless. I also have my torp speed upgraded to 55 knots. There is no escaping that.

Thats what I have, I thought the two torps option was automatically set to 55 knots, the four torp option is at 44 knots or something.

[GulvkluderGuld]

1 hour ago, Zlaraki said:

I believe Haku counters any camping cruiser but Mino and worchester are indeed a pain in the [edited]. Its basicaly a one way trip if you are going for those 2. I hate DD in my haku and being forced to focus them. I also hate all the BB who I cant citadel which are quite alot nowadays. Mino and worchester should be a nobrainer, so its not always sunshine when it comes to Haku.

Conq and Repub says Hi! 

 

Worse, at lot of people have (unsurprisingly) figured out those two CLs are a royal pain to deal with in Haku and are very common in R1R5  

 

Anything else i pretty much food for Haku though....i've even started landing multiple citadels on Zaos now (it helps when even hurricane clan players thinks turning parallel to my course will throw off my aim)

 

[anonym_RGvUdEcxWWvD]

6 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

Thats what I have, I thought the two torps option was automatically set to 55 knots, the four torp option is at 44 knots or something.

I also go full stealth giving them minimal time to react combined with 55 knots, no BB can dodge those torps if theyr caught broadside, even cruisers struggle to deal with them. 

[GulvkluderGuld]

19 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

Thats what I have, I thought the two torps option was automatically set to 55 knots, the four torp option is at 44 knots or something.

 

12 minutes ago, Zlaraki said:

I also go full stealth giving them minimal time to react combined with 55 knots, no BB can dodge those torps if theyr caught broadside, even cruisers struggle to deal with them. 

Just wondering, what build are you using if you have room to fit in TA? This is what i use.

I guess keep Air supremacy and drop the other 2 tier 1 skills?

My damage (in ranked) is about evenly distributed between AP bombs and Torps since BBs eat those AP citadels.

 

 

[Hopeless_Guppy]

1 minute ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

 

Just wondering, what build are you using if you have room to fit in TA? This is what i use.

I guess keep Air supremacy and drop the other 2 tier 1 skills?

My damage (in ranked) is about evenly distributed between AP bombs and Torps since BBs eat those AP citadels.

 

 

Thank you for that, I was wondering is it something to do with captain skills, maybe I will put my Mushashi captain in as I do not a have a full 19 skill captain yet

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

2 hours ago, Zlaraki said:

The more I improve the less I think Haku needs a buff

You all know that the current AA system is broken right?  

If you're trying to maximise your AA on a ship going off her stats, you will be severely let down. Bascially, The AA flag, Air Defense mod, BFT, AFT, Manual fire for AA. From low to high. 

Once the AA is properly fixed, CV players will cry havoc and will all have more problems dealing out damages.

 

[anonym_RGvUdEcxWWvD]

 

53 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

 

Just wondering, what build are you using if you have room to fit in TA? This is what i use.

I guess keep Air supremacy and drop the other 2 tier 1 skills?

My damage (in ranked) is about evenly distributed between AP bombs and Torps since BBs eat those AP citadels.

 

 

 

All I know is since I changed from 4 torps to 2 and with this setup, my average dmg on Haku which was 70k at that time went to 150k~. Part of this is ofcourse improvement but I like to believe I have the right setup.

Here is mine:

 

55 knots is crucial for me. I dont have to do any thinking or predicting, with that speed and stealth the enemies BB simply cant react, cruisers very often get punished as well.