summon9fire Players 2 posts 547 battles Report post #1 Posted June 1, 2019 The bismarck nowadays is really hard to work with, I can't even brawl with it consistently. A NC rips me apart like carving a cake. Downsides: - Not even the best secondary build anymore in tier 8 - Always get uptiered, turrets can't penetrate T10 BB's - Really bad spread - I had to save up a lot of in-game currency to buy it and upgrade it. - Bismarck always get taken out at the start of the game, because they're "dangerous" if they get up close (not anymore imo) - It's not fun anymore to play it, I had a blast with the gneisenau, Kaiser and König - No decent AA, mid-range Does the Bismarck need a buff? If so, why? If not, why? P.S. I know i'm not the best player, but my win rate with the Bismarck is the worst... 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
veslingr Players 2,975 posts 477 battles Report post #2 Posted June 1, 2019 Whole KM line is outdated. T9 is worst ship in tier. T10 is worst BB of tx......secondaries needs rework 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Atankean Players 203 posts 3,270 battles Report post #3 Posted June 1, 2019 yep, what veslingr just said basically. The German BBs got powercreeped to oblivion. Also, CV Rework made sure you cant push too hard to get into this "sweet spot" where you can actually hit something. Still my favorite line but not because of efficiency...thats for sure. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[RL7S] Alex_Connor Players 248 posts 3,311 battles Report post #4 Posted June 1, 2019 Needs accuracy buff, Russian BBs have show the way to go with brawling focused lines. Perhaps not as much accuracy because German BBs have better citadel protection and secondaries (although RU have better penetration and overmatch), but at least up close you should be able to hit reliably. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[ENUF] Ze_Reckless [ENUF] Players 2,532 posts 23,427 battles Report post #5 Posted June 1, 2019 'Worst ship in T9.' Spoiler Either I was lucky with dispersion or the guns aren't as bad as everyone says. And they do stuff when they hit unlike Bismarck. 10 point weeb captain btw, nothing fancy. Well, actually it is the worst ship in Tier 9. Especially when you compare it to such balanced ships like Musashi. But as long as they are being played WG will see no reason to help them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[RONIN] 22cm Beta Tester 6,377 posts 36,667 battles Report post #6 Posted June 1, 2019 Best secondaries ship is Alsace now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anonym_RGvUdEcxWWvD Players 315 posts Report post #7 Posted June 1, 2019 Secundaries are a joke, not just Bismarck but Wurst as well. Brawlers are nonexistance which encourages camping. Bad game design if you ask me, but Im sure WG will fix this in the future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[I-J-N] Karasu_Browarszky [I-J-N] Players 13,025 posts Report post #8 Posted June 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Zlaraki said: Secundaries are a joke, not just Bismarck but Wurst as well. Brawlers are nonexistance which encourages camping. Bad game design if you ask me, but Im sure WG will fix this in the future. Well.. the Russians are coming! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cambera_1 Players 1,018 posts 23,940 battles Report post #9 Posted June 1, 2019 Can't have these German newcomers out "Russian"ing the Russians! It wouldn't be proper! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
I0I_KK_I0I Players 162 posts Report post #10 Posted June 1, 2019 The weird thing is: A Sec-Build is brawling by nature, but it is punished with almost no room for survival skills. A sniper build, on the other hand, can have a lot more survival skills. Thats's paradoxical. Secondary and Survival Skills need a rework. 9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CHEFT] DFens_666 Players 13,162 posts 11,029 battles Report post #11 Posted June 1, 2019 6 hours ago, summon9fire said: - Not even the best secondary build anymore in tier 8 - Always get uptiered, turrets can't penetrate T10 BB's - Really bad spread - I had to save up a lot of in-game currency to buy it and upgrade it. - Bismarck always get taken out at the start of the game, because they're "dangerous" if they get up close (not anymore imo) - It's not fun anymore to play it, I had a blast with the gneisenau, Kaiser and König - No decent AA, mid-range Does the Bismarck need a buff? If so, why? If not, why? P.S. I know i'm not the best player, but my win rate with the Bismarck is the worst... 1. Dont play secondary build, try something else. Nobody says, that Secondary build is THE best build for german ships. Its an option to play it like that, some like it, other dont. Bismarck for me was manageable with Secondaries, but the T9/10 certainly not. With GK i went tank build, and its much more fun. 2. Not a Bismarck problem, its T8. Also, Bismarck can do the same to a Montana and vice versa. Both shoot each others bow -> both will bounce. Germans have much better armor, try playing a NC or Amagi and face a Musashi / Yamato. They cant bounce at all. Bismarck can bounce Upper Belt/ Deck where others cant. 3. Thats a german BB problem in general 4. I think it would be beneficial for you to play more midtier games. Play Cruisers and DDs aswell, will teach you a lot. There is no "endgame" at TX. If anything, frustration will be waiting for you. Its already showing. If you go to TX, it will almost guaranteed get only worse. 5. Again more a problem of T8. Why not shoot the lower tier ships? They have less HP, but get the same damage. If you play Gneisenau, wouldnt you shoot a T5 Cruiser aswell? 6. Then play those. Games should be about having fun, why you wanna waste your free time by not having fun? 7. Eh... who has tho? Does Bismarck need a buff? You could say so for other german BBs too, but it might end in a tradeoff, where something else gets nerfed in return (like getting a citadel?). The Meta is crap for closerange ships, but if you buff them, and meta changes, suddenly they might become OP. As i said before, go back to low-midtiers. You are not experienced enough to compete in hightier matchmaking, especially in ships which in this meta are subpar. The FDG and GK will feel even worse compared to the Bismarck. They are much larger in size, they move like bricks, the dispersion is still "questionable" and you eat even more superstructure pens compared to Bismarck. The only way you will get a better WR, is by learning more about the game. If you could swap your Bismarck for another T8 BB, the results will most likely look similiar. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TNDF] KratosTheUnforgiving Players 1,010 posts Report post #12 Posted June 1, 2019 6 hours ago, Alex_Connor said: Russian BBs have show the way to go with brawling focused lines That is only true due to WG wanting the Russian line to be the flag ship range, they are delibertaly OP just to make the paper ships look good. Even in reaity, Russia produces badly designed warships. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[I401] That_Other_Nid Players 969 posts 11,943 battles Report post #13 Posted June 2, 2019 4 hours ago, Mr_Wolfclaw said: That is only true due to WG wanting the Russian line to be the flag ship range, they are delibertaly OP just to make the paper ships look good. Even in reaity, Russia produces badly designed warships. Still better than German and Nazi designs. Nazi ships had comical armour arrangements. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] MaxL_1023 Players 34 posts 16,899 battles Report post #14 Posted June 2, 2019 The issue is the firing angles - 35 degrees is just enough to take full pen damage through the front half of your ship. The FDG and GK are even worse - a GK using all 12 guns will take damage as if it was full broadside most of the time. You need to be careful to not angle more than ~25-30 degrees when something is looking at you, even if it means only using 4 guns. You can use the back turrets while they are reloading if you have a chance. The Bismarck, FDG and GK ARE very difficult to take down by AP or HE damage in terms of the raw amount required, however they are often in positions where they take more damage due to either captain error or a forced situation. They just don't fit the bow tanking meta and can't pull off the kind of long range volleys the USN or IJN BBs can, or the short range punishment the new RU BBs have for that matter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NWP] 159Hunter Players 4,528 posts Report post #15 Posted June 2, 2019 17 hours ago, veslingr said: Whole KM line is outdated. T9 is worst ship in tier. T10 is worst BB of tx......secondaries needs rework @Bear_Necessities I summon thee 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[THESO] MrWastee Players 4,255 posts 33,584 battles Report post #16 Posted June 2, 2019 last 3 weeks sayin' nope Bismarck VIII 6 50%Average 2 726Super Unicum 91 218 1.67 10.17 nope Tirpitz VIII 5 60%Unicum 2 353Unicum 65 817 1.2 4.6 nope Prinz Eitel Friedrich VI 2 50%Average 2 253Unicum 75 597 2.5 13 nope Friedrich der Große IX 4 50%Average 2 127Unicum 85 428 1 3 nope Gneisenau VII 2 100%Super Unicum 2 030Great 44 033 2 0 nope Scharnhorst VII 8 62.5%Unicum 1 656Very Good 58 421 1.25 4.88 ...... well, wasn't too good on last 2 GK matches no idea which km ships u're talking bout, mine are fine! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NWP] Bear__Necessities Players 5,291 posts 15,379 battles Report post #17 Posted June 2, 2019 1 hour ago, 159Hunter said: @Bear_Necessities I summon thee *reads* 19 hours ago, veslingr said: Whole KM line is outdated. T9 is worst ship in tier. T10 is worst BB of tx......secondaries needs rework *looks lovingly at KM BB's* and I'm not even that good in BB's. I'm a DD main and better in all the other classes and I can make them work no issue. As for th re-work. It is actually better for KM BB's as a good RTS CV player could practically dev strike them. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
veslingr Players 2,975 posts 477 battles Report post #18 Posted June 2, 2019 2 hours ago, MrWastee said: last 3 weeks sayin' nope Bismarck VIII 6 50%Average 2 726Super Unicum 91 218 1.67 10.17 nope Tirpitz VIII 5 60%Unicum 2 353Unicum 65 817 1.2 4.6 nope Prinz Eitel Friedrich VI 2 50%Average 2 253Unicum 75 597 2.5 13 nope Friedrich der Große IX 4 50%Average 2 127Unicum 85 428 1 3 nope Gneisenau VII 2 100%Super Unicum 2 030Great 44 033 2 0 nope Scharnhorst VII 8 62.5%Unicum 1 656Very Good 58 421 1.25 4.88 ...... well, wasn't too good on last 2 GK matches no idea which km ships u're talking bout, mine are fine! nice try...but lets look how your t9 performs...oh surprize..look who is last on list by dmg and second from back on WR :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dCK_Ad_Hominem Players 1,176 posts 5,859 battles Report post #19 Posted June 2, 2019 GK is fine in my book, running secondary build. The thing is that the km is a case of glass half full/half empty. They are probably the most situational of the bunch, but with the right timing and planning they can be absolutely devastating. This is also due to the fact that the turtle back concept on them was done the right way, unlike some other ships which will take little full pen damage, unless flush broadside, as well. And at least the GK is far more accurate than people would have you believe. Apart from Freddie they are fine (12 380mms might be an idea). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
veslingr Players 2,975 posts 477 battles Report post #20 Posted June 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Bear_Necessities said: *reads* *looks lovingly at KM BB's* and I'm not even that good in BB's. I'm a DD main and better in all the other classes and I can make them work no issue. As for th re-work. It is actually better for KM BB's as a good RTS CV player could practically dev strike them. no idea what this shoould prove? On pleyer can have same stats in them as his whole stats? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[THESO] MrWastee Players 4,255 posts 33,584 battles Report post #21 Posted June 2, 2019 12 minutes ago, veslingr said: nice try...but lets look how your t9 performs...oh surprize..look who is last on list by dmg and second from back on WR :) lol.... erm, while talking bout recent performance of km ships u might not should refer to stats from a players overall playtime, including stats on iowa, which i kinda played the last time 1979... so to say.... sec builds are very match dependend either, but thats on nther sheet. also freddy got changed recently, while i do play since its out. +, u mainly went for bismarck, so might get those in..... btw: bismarck and sec builds more foten nge dd's than backyard campers, thus dmg is no real measure in that regard.... Warship Tier Nation Battles Win rate PR Average Damage Avg. frags Avg. planes destroyed 1 Tirpitz 8 Germany 1 247 58.46% 2 033 59 488 0.99 2.14 Details 2 Bismarck 8 Germany 279 63.08% 1 837 63 301 1.01 3.45 Details 3 Amagi 8 Japan 93 51.61% 1 485 65 194 1.09 2.6 Details 4 North Carolina 8 U.S.A. 71 42.25% 1 301 53 842 0.94 3.04 Details 5 Massachusetts 8 U.S.A. 65 64.62% 1 907 83 768 1.37 7.26 Details 6 Alabama 8 U.S.A. 38 65.79% 1 578 66 012 0.82 5.18 Details 7 Richelieu 8 France 32 65.63% 1 198 58 558 0.91 3.44 Details 8 Monarch 8 U.K. 15 60% 1 408 68 194 0.87 1.93 Details 9 Gascogne 8 France 12 58.33% 1 490 54 858 1.42 1.33 Details 10 Kii 8 Japan 4 50% 1 344 60 468 0.75 8 Details 11 Roma 8 Italy 4 75% 1 219 51 623 0.75 0 Details Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
veslingr Players 2,975 posts 477 battles Report post #22 Posted June 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, MrWastee said: lol.... erm, while talking bout recent performance of km ships u might not should refer to stats from a players overall playtime, including stats on iowa, which i kinda played the last time 1979... so to say.... sec builds are very match dependend either, but thats on nther sheet. also freddy got changed recently, while i do play since its out. +, u mainly went for bismarck, so might get those in..... btw: bismarck and sec builds more foten nge dd's than backyard campers, thus dmg is no real measure in that regard.... Warship Tier Nation Battles Win rate PR Average Damage Avg. frags Avg. planes destroyed 1 Tirpitz 8 Germany 1 247 58.46% 2 033 59 488 0.99 2.14 Details 2 Bismarck 8 Germany 279 63.08% 1 837 63 301 1.01 3.45 Details 3 Amagi 8 Japan 93 51.61% 1 485 65 194 1.09 2.6 Details 4 North Carolina 8 U.S.A. 71 42.25% 1 301 53 842 0.94 3.04 Details 5 Massachusetts 8 U.S.A. 65 64.62% 1 907 83 768 1.37 7.26 Details 6 Alabama 8 U.S.A. 38 65.79% 1 578 66 012 0.82 5.18 Details 7 Richelieu 8 France 32 65.63% 1 198 58 558 0.91 3.44 Details 8 Monarch 8 U.K. 15 60% 1 408 68 194 0.87 1.93 Details 9 Gascogne 8 France 12 58.33% 1 490 54 858 1.42 1.33 Details 10 Kii 8 Japan 4 50% 1 344 60 468 0.75 8 Details 11 Roma 8 Italy 4 75% 1 219 51 623 0.75 0 Details 42% on carolina is enoughtt for me :) objective they are worst ships in tier form t9 up (BB vise) even you can have ok stats in it..this is mine 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[THESO] MrWastee Players 4,255 posts 33,584 battles Report post #23 Posted June 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, veslingr said: 42% on carolina is enoughtt for me :) objective they are worst ships in tier form t9 up (BB vise) even you can have ok stats in it..this is mine yeah, the n-cal i played as noob b4 iiowa.....so, 1978... "oooh i'm winning on ship, but it suX" or woat? *shrug edit: oh wait, most importantly: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NWP] Bear__Necessities Players 5,291 posts 15,379 battles Report post #24 Posted June 2, 2019 24 minutes ago, veslingr said: no idea what this shoould prove? On pleyer can have same stats in them as his whole stats? That any ship and class can be played well and it’s a learn to play issue. Really quite simple. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
veslingr Players 2,975 posts 477 battles Report post #25 Posted June 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, MrWastee said: yeah, the n-cal i played as noob b4 iiowa.....so, 1978... "oooh i'm winning on ship, but it suX" or woat? *shrug still, no matter wins, all other BBs on t9 feels more comfortable....8 bad precision guns is too much for me, with hughe size + secondaries that are more or less gimick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
