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Belustigungspanda

How about some happy little clouds?

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After raging once again over having over 60% of my HP stripped off by planes in the first 2 minutes of the match, i decided to go for a run in the woods, get some fresh air and make up my mind. And guess what...i spotted something that might help us solve or at least alleviate one of the main concerns with carriers these days. I didn't even have to come up with a far fetched solution. I just had to look upwards. And there they were...some happy little clouds.

 

 

Carrier planes these days combine several problematic traits, but one of the main issues is that they negate positioning and intelligent vision play. You can't run away from them since they are faster. You can't permanently hide from them because islands don't block their vision (well...they do...but planes can just go around casually) and smoke screens don't last forever. You don't want to use your smoke screens every time a CV plane spots you because they have limited charges and you will most likely get hit for big when slowing down. And last but not least, your own CV neither has the means nor the incentive to fly over and provide you with some fighter cover. Going stealth has become so much harder since the rework hit the servers and you clearly see where this has lead to: Flanking and bold offensive plays get punished more than ever while the big blob lemming trail prevails. So what to do?

 

The answer is simple: CV planes use another layer on the map where sea level obstacles like islands don't work. We just need to add obstacles to their own raised layer, which is the sky. And what obstacles do we spot when we open the window? Clouds! Happy little clouds.

 

Clouds in WoWs could work like this:

  • They could be both stationary or moving, depending on balancing considerations. I think they should be moving slowly to prevent camping.
  • They would block vision around planes of all sorts: Ships that hide below clouds wouldn't be spotted by planes and CV players would either have to wait until these ships get surface spotted or leave the cloud area.
  • Firing your main guns could maybe lead to ships in cloud areas being visible for planes again just like with surface vision and the gun bloom mechanic that we all know. But this would have to be tested. Maybe we would need separate modifiers.
  • Clouds would also obstruct vision from surface ships to planes, so it would be possible to hide your planes in or behind clouds as long as there is no line of sight to other planes or surface ships, making attack runs of AA heavy targets possible when there's a cloud area behind them to slip in.
  • EDIT: As soon as planes initiate their attack run, their visibility would be affected by the same modifiers as surface ships are when firing their main guns. As a result, they would get spotted and targeted by AA even when they attack a ship that's inside a cloud area.
  • Clouds wouldn't affect surface spotting at all.

 

As a result, surface ships get some passive counterplay against CV planes and competent CV players might even develop some more elaborate tactics. It's a win-win on our constant struggle for a fun and engaging meta where noone has to feel completely at the opponent's mercy.

 

What do you think?

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As long as i can fall upon a hapless AA cruiser - that i could track between clouds - unable to fire on me untill i rush out of a cloud while i relaese my bombs before his AA guns even get a fix on me.....it is ok with me.

 

That isn't going to be very populair though......nor are any visual imparing effects if you might have noticed....unless for those vulnerable that love to close in unseen.

 

You real "problem" is that any new mechanics or nerfs may not effect DPS and performance. Right now CV are pretty on par with other ships in DPS and scoring, hard to believe as it may be to those that think CV are hellspawn.  Hamper CV DPS  and not other ships DPS upsets that balance, so WG needs to buff  CV damage....no one wants that i think.

 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

As long as i can fall upon a hapless AA cruiser - that i could track between clouds - unable to fire on me untill i rush out of a cloud while i relaese my bombs before his AA guns even get a fix on me.....it is ok with me.

This would depend on the size and movement speed of the clouds...and on the cruiser captain's movement and positioning. There should be a possibility for each one of you to outplay the other, depending on situational awareness and skill.

 

16 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

That isn't going to be very populair though......nor are any visual imparing effects if you might have noticed....unless for those vulnerable that love to close in unseen.

It's not only for those. It's also for players who do high (calculated) risk, high reward actions that might win the match but after which you need some time to recover. Planes prey on these situations and either take you out or spot you for other ships while your repair is on cooldown after the intense fight.

 

16 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

You real "problem" is that it may not effect DPS and performance. Right now CV are pretty on par with others ships in DPS and scoring. Hamper them and not others upsets that balance, so WG needs to buff their damage....no one wants that i think.

As long as WG doesn't cover the map in clouds, there should always be some visible target for the CV to go for. Clouds would just add some possibility for surface ships to decide "nah, i don't want to be the target this time, even if i have to change course or stop firing for a minute"...which again lowers their DPS and performance.

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It would just be a crutch.

Ultimately, CVs need to go.

Either go away completely as a playable class, or be capped to less than 20% of Random battles.

Boycott+sabotage is the only fitting answer.

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6 hours ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

It would just be a crutch.

Ultimately, CVs need to go.

Either go away completely as a playable class, or be capped to less than 20% of Random battles.

Boycott+sabotage is the only fitting answer.

Where did the bad CV touch you. Seriously though stop whining and just play the game, it's getting boring at this point mate 

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and I thought at the start, this is just another CV whine thread that should be locked.

But have I ever been so wrong??

 

I actually loved the idea personally.

Clouds = islands in the sky..

 

and they can always do different things for storms, cyclones etc.

then the RPF or radar for support CV line would mean a lot of thing.

 

 

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We already have weather that seriously favor surface peasants, ever tried to find DD who mastered location of P key in blizzard/thunderstorm? The same weather effects have no effect on plane detection tho

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not all mushrooms are eatable, remember that OP next time pls 

 

you enjoy storms? 8 km detection? basicly 10 minures of ussles idiot play? so you would add another? 

 

You really want clouds that hide planes and AAA is not working, an they go to dive on you (spoted form dd) form cloud cover with 0 dmg to them?

 

you really want that? :)

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3 hours ago, Mr_Snoww said:

Where did the bad CV touch you. Seriously though stop whining and just play the game, it's getting boring at this point mate 

As a player I cannot praise you enough. You are more than twice the player that I would ever be, and you perform to a level of high excellence in all classes, which indicates to me that you have a great feel for the game...almost an instinct you might say.:Smile_honoring:

 

But as a poster on the forum you lack empathy with players weaker than yourself who are understandably frustrated by the CV rework.

 

You can only see the carrier issue from your own elitist standpoint as someone who can do extremely well at the game, both at individual level and as a member of a great clan.

And let us not forget that the pre-rework Midway was your top ship in terms of enemies destroyed - and your excellent performances in the "new" Midway can hardly be called shabby with a 72% win rate.

(Which is just to say that you have an interest in carriers from your own paricular experience, just like the rest of us)

 

Of course most us have tried to improve through study and practice, so smug advice to "git gud" are just insulting. I'm glad that you did not use that particular cliche.:Smile_honoring:

"Mr Average" is  nowhere near your level and thus don't see it as a simple matter of "stop whining and just play the game"  (and act as targets for the likes of great player such as yourself).

 

Here's the bottom line. Wargaming are risking losing lots of players, either totally, or in people playing a lot less because they are trying to keep Carrier fans happy.

In an ideal world Wargaming could keep players of all classes happy with perfect balancing nd gameplay. But it is not an ideal world.

Carriers are still a minority interest, and it feels strongly to me that we are in a situation described by the old English saying: "The tail is wagging the dog".

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Admiral_H_Nelson said:

 

 

But as a poster on the forum you lack empathy with players weaker than yourself who are understandably frustrated by the CV rework.

 

 

 

 

nothing is understandably in this exaggerated whining 

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10 hours ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

 

Ultimately, CVs need to go.

Either go away completely as a playable class, or be capped to less than 20% of Random battles.

Boycott+sabotage is the only fitting answer.

No and No and can i have your stuff  when you leave game?

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4 minutes ago, veslingr said:

No and No and can i have your stuff  when you leave game?

If he says "No", then keep in touch

I have 194 ships, including 61 premiums, and 18 at tier 10

Also 13 Nineteen-point captains , about 86 million in silver, 1.7 million in Free Xp, over 4 million in Elite XP and a few gold doubloons.

Not that marvelous compared to most - but worth having for some players i suppose.

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Overall, I love the idea. I would be surprised if somebody at the WG ivory tower hasn't been toying around with this, or even more?

 

It would have to be very carefully balanced so that while providing cover from the average CV player, it wouldn't actually benefit the CV unicums.

 

I'm imagining the situation where a surface ship is hiding under cloud cover. The CV unicum makes good use of the minimap and/or anticipation, and drops from above cloud cover to a torpedo attack run, enjoying the 30 % damage reduction. After the attack run he returns back to cloud cover, again 100 % safe from harm. Fun and engaging?

 

(My assumption here is that clouds wouldn't provide cover against the sea-skimming attacking torpedo planes, whose attack runs can be as long as 15 seconds.)

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14 hours ago, Excavatus said:

and I thought at the start, this is just another CV whine thread that should be locked.

But have I ever been so wrong??

 

*g* Thx. I thought i should give the constructive approach a try. I'll spare the whining for the next matches and the ingame chat... :Smile_hiding:

 

11 hours ago, veslingr said:

not all mushrooms are eatable, remember that OP next time pls 

 

you enjoy storms? 8 km detection? basicly 10 minures of ussles idiot play? so you would add another? 

 

You really want clouds that hide planes and AAA is not working, an they go to dive on you (spoted form dd) form cloud cover with 0 dmg to them?

 

you really want that? :)

 

Actually no, i don't want that. As soon as planes that have so far been hiding behind a cloud initiate their attack run, they should be treated just like ships that fire their main guns.

Concerning the storm comparison, i think you severely overestimate the cloud size that i imagine so far. Two or three Kurfürsts in diametre should most likely do it for a single cloud area, but you'd have the next one available after some few km. Of course that's only a rough concept by now. WG would have to tweak the variables until they finally fit.

 

8 hours ago, asalonen said:

Overall, I love the idea. I would be surprised if somebody at the WG ivory tower hasn't been toying around with this, or even more?

 

It would have to be very carefully balanced so that while providing cover from the average CV player, it wouldn't actually benefit the CV unicums.

 

I'm imagining the situation where a surface ship is hiding under cloud cover. The CV unicum makes good use of the minimap and/or anticipation, and drops from above cloud cover to a torpedo attack run, enjoying the 30 % damage reduction. After the attack run he returns back to cloud cover, again 100 % safe from harm. Fun and engaging?

 

(My assumption here is that clouds wouldn't provide cover against the sea-skimming attacking torpedo planes, whose attack runs can be as long as 15 seconds.)

See above. All carrier squadrons except for british bombers approach to sea level when they attack, so the clouds shouldn't cover them any more when they go ham, giving the attacked ship at least some window of opportunity for its AA. (Planes should also  be visible and vulnerable some seconds after the drop until they regain altitude.) And even though british bombers actually don't get that close to sea level, i think they should also lose their cover as soon as they start their attack run due to balancing reasons.

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