Confusion regarding upcoming v0.8.4 WoWs and CV changes - are dive bombers nerfed or buffed?

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

Confusion regarding upcoming v0.8.4 WoWs and CV changes - are dive bombers nerfed or buffed?

 

 

According to official announcement:

 

"Update 0.8.4: Soviet Battleships!"

 

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/game-updates/update-084-soviet-battleships/

 

Quote

Owing to the specifics of their in-game mechanics, as well as the peculiarities of aiming and bomb dispersion, dive bombers carrying HE bombs were able to easily deliver multiple hits on a destroyer. Even maneuverable targets, like destroyers, could do little to escape the painful punch that dive bombers were able to connect. To provide destroyers with an opportunity to take countermeasures in such situations, we’ve:

• Increased the altitude at which bombs are released.
• Narrowed the reticle's ellipse and made it longer in shape.
• Changed the distribution of bombs within the reticle's ellipse (bombs will now fall closer to the edge of the aiming edge more often, and more rarely at its center).

 

The reticle aiming settings have also been changed in order to preserve the interaction between HE dive bombers and other ship types. Aiming will begin during the preparation stage for an attack and will happen quicker, while flight maneuvering will have less of an effect on it.

 

 

The above changes will apply to all aircraft carriers in the game.

 

But if you watch the official video:

 

 

At 03:30 you can see that dive bombers can now pull hard maneuvers during their attack run without the dispersion ellipse of their targeting reticle getting wider!

 

 

So... are dive bombers nerfed or buffed?

 

Will the DDs be safer or not?

 

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[Yosha_AtaIante]

DBs are buffed.

[Prospect_b]

I know @El2aZeR has been looking forward to this patch for weeks now, so what do you think?

[RAHJAILARI]

Kinda buffed is my thinking also... All planes in fact, but perhaps DD chances of evading fatal hits might increase. But then again,. There are still the Rocket planes.

35 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

I know @El2aZeR has been looking forward to this patch for weeks now, so what do you think?

Uh oh, in that case there's probably something sinister at work here and we're all seriously screwed...

Might have to re-think my Grand Plan of trying out more DD's and NonAA-Specced Cruisers this weekend.

[Aotearas]

Overall the intent was to make them less effective against DDs so they changed the bomb dispersion to fall more regularily along the edges of the drop ellipsis rather than in the center, resulting in fewer hits on manouvering DDs. The change in the drop ellipsis also means you can saturate a larger target and even with bombs dropping closer to the edges they will still hit something bigger like a battleship.

 

So against DDs, DB got a nerf, against CL/CAs it depends on the size of the ship, but probably a slight nerf depending on how regularily the bombs drop along the edges of the drop ellipsis (the improved manouvering during a drop attack should help though) and against battleships it's arguably a buff because the hit ratio against such big targets should stay the same, but greater bomb dispersion partially counters saturation a little bit and you stand a slightly better chance at getting multiple fires as bombs land on different fire zones.

 

At least that's how I understand the theory behind the change.

[Bics93]

5 minuti fa, Aotearas ha scritto:

Overall the intent was to make them less effective against DDs so they changed the bomb dispersion to fall more regularily along the edges of the drop ellipsis rather than in the center, resulting in fewer hits on manouvering DDs. The change in the drop ellipsis also means you can saturate a larger target and even with bombs dropping closer to the edges they will still hit something bigger like a battleship.

 

So against DDs, DB got a nerf, against CL/CAs it depends on the size of the ship, but probably a slight nerf depending on how regularily the bombs drop along the edges of the drop ellipsis (the improved manouvering during a drop attack should help though) and against battleships it's arguably a buff because the hit ratio against such big targets should stay the same, but greater bomb dispersion partially counters saturation a little bit and you stand a slightly better chance at getting multiple fires as bombs land on different fire zones.

 

At least that's how I understand the theory behind the change.

 

This seems a good and exhaustive analysis 

[veslingr]

as stated before, when hordes of rhomboids gloated, DB got slight nerf to aiming DDS and considerable buff for BBs (new ellipse and maneuvers not [edited]aim).

 

so yeah...it is a buf....suckitttt crayeeers :)

 

Africa soon be become new ocean from tiers of the cryers :)

[Saltface]

I will say what I think after I play the new patch.

Now it is premature to draw any conclusion.

 

Regards

Saltface

[22cm]

Your question implies the fact that WG knows what they are doing and follow a certain logic. 

In reality they screwed up with the CV rework and are trying different things to see if some of them miraculously work. 

 

[CptBarney]

Yes!

 

i can finally apporach dds at any angle and not have to use my brain except for dodging flak.

 

balans!

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

They are buffed in general and the GZ DBs receive an extra hefty buff.

[Blixies]

3 minutes ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

They are buffed in general and the GZ DBs receive an extra hefty buff.

Along with a hefty nerf of speed (as do all CVs, but GZ loses out the most along with Sai-pain, IMHO).

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Vor 2 Minuten, Blixies sagte:

Along with a hefty nerf of speed (as do all CVs, but GZ loses out the most along with Sai-pain, IMHO).

"The cruising speed of Japanese aircraft, VIII Graf Zeppelin's aircraft, and the attack aircraft of all nations has been increased by 40 knots."

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/game-updates/update-084-soviet-battleships/#aircraft-carriers

[Blixies]

4 minutes ago, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

"The cruising speed of Japanese aircraft, VIII Graf Zeppelin's aircraft, and the attack aircraft of all nations has been increased by 40 knots."

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/game-updates/update-084-soviet-battleships/#aircraft-carriers

I see the cryptic WG wording has fooled you too :)

The speed of the aircraft is not increased. Those are the new engine boost values - i.e. heavy nerf to GZ and Saipan, less of a nerf to the other tier 8.

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Vor 4 Minuten, Blixies sagte:

The speed of the aircraft is not increased.

If that is true than it's not a wording or translation issue, it's a blatant lie.

Because it says literally "the speed is increased".

[Ze_Reckless]

2 hours ago, Aotearas said:

Overall the intent was to make them less effective against DDs so they changed the bomb dispersion to fall more regularily along the edges of the drop ellipsis rather than in the center, resulting in fewer hits on manouvering DDs.

Can't you just aim the edge of the ellipse at the DD a.k.a. miss the target for semi-guaranteed hits? The change can only work if the ellipse is significantly bigger than the DD.

[Prospect_b]

1 hour ago, Ze_Reckless said:

Can't you just aim the edge of the ellipse at the DD a.k.a. miss the target for semi-guaranteed hits? The change can only work if the ellipse is significantly bigger than the DD.

Thanks for the suggestion to test in training room :)

[Pandafaust]

12 minutes ago, Ze_Reckless said:

Can't you just aim the edge of the ellipse at the DD a.k.a. miss the target for semi-guaranteed hits? The change can only work if the ellipse is significantly bigger than the DD.

"Semi" is very much the key word in that sentence - the bombs have just as much chance of dropping at the other extreme of the ellipse that you'd have just moved further from the DD. I'd also note that the ellipse was only a guide at best, as bombs can still fall outside it entirely.

 

That said, the change in ellipse shape is minimal - I think any benefit DDs feel depends on the statement that bombs are dropped from a higher altitude, so would cover a larger area. Haven't seen how much higher they're dropped from yet though .

[Blixies]

11 minutes ago, Pandafaust said:

The cruising speed (I.e the speed the planes travel at when no keys are being pressed) has been increased slightly.

Source? By how much? I never heard of this.

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

2 hours ago, Aotearas said:

Overall the intent was to make them less effective against DDs so they changed the bomb dispersion to fall more regularily along the edges of the drop ellipsis rather than in the center, resulting in fewer hits on manouvering DDs. The change in the drop ellipsis also means you can saturate a larger target and even with bombs dropping closer to the edges they will still hit something bigger like a battleship.

 

So against DDs, DB got a nerf, against CL/CAs it depends on the size of the ship, but probably a slight nerf depending on how regularily the bombs drop along the edges of the drop ellipsis (the improved manouvering during a drop attack should help though) and against battleships it's arguably a buff because the hit ratio against such big targets should stay the same, but greater bomb dispersion partially counters saturation a little bit and you stand a slightly better chance at getting multiple fires as bombs land on different fire zones.

 

At least that's how I understand the theory behind the change.

 

That is what they have said from the beginning, but the reality on PTS was allegedly different, as it was still as easy to hit DDs according to @El2aZeR and some others. 

 

My conclusion was that maybe the dispersion change hadn't been properly implemented yet, only the reticle change. If dispersion change was also already included, it will probably not help much, as it allegedly didn't on PTS. 

 

 

 

[Aotearas]

33 minutes ago, Ze_Reckless said:

Can't you just aim the edge of the ellipse at the DD a.k.a. miss the target for semi-guaranteed hits? The change can only work if the ellipse is significantly bigger than the DD.

Well, you can only aim a fraction of your drop ellipsis' edge on the DD so even if the bomb hits were consistent along the edge, the number of hits would still be fewer than compared to before where most bombs hit among the center.

[El2aZeR]

5 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Well, you can only aim a fraction of your drop ellipsis' edge on the DD so even if the bomb hits were consistent along the edge, the number of hits would still be fewer than compared to before where most bombs hit among the center.

 

The question is rather whether you get more bomb hits if you have better sigma but won't get many perfect drop angles by virtue of the DD maneuvering, OR if you get more bomb hits with less sigma but you can pretty much always get a perfect drop angle via new maneuverability.

 

My bet is on the latter and PTS testing hasn't made me believe otherwise.

[Ze_Reckless]

We had the radar nerf from 11.7 to 12 km plus longer duration, now this DB nerf. DDs rejoice! Our complaints have been heard.

 

Do I have to say it's /s?

[Pandafaust]

10 minutes ago, Blixies said:

Source? By how much? I never heard of this.

Do you know,  I think you're right - I've had a bit of a browse and I can't find any mention of a change to the cruising speed other than on the 0.8.4 update notes, and it does seem a mighty coincidence that the cruising speed would be updated by the same values as the new boost speeds. Looks as though they've just screwed up the wording.

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Vor 50 Minuten, Blixies sagte:

Source? By how much? I never heard of this.

The patch notes of course.

 

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/game-updates/update-084-soviet-battleships/