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Tanatoy

Changes to CV in 0.8.4 and after

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Plans for introducing aircraft preparation time at the beginning of each battle, aircraft carrier matchmaking.

 

Aircraft preparation time at the beginning of the battle was tested on the 0.8.4 Public Test.

 

The purpose of the change was not only to delay the detection of the enemy team but also to achieve the almost simultaneous beginning of battle for all ships. Destroyers are fighting at the control area, cruisers and battleships are firing at the spotted targets. Presently, this flow is broken by early detection from the air. We want to bring the timing of battle to the point that the aircraft are near the control area at close to the same time as other classes.

 

Preparation time influenced the battle as it was intended: later spotting allowed destroyers to reach the control areas undetected, which ensured active battle for other classes. 

 

However this change created a long waiting period for the aircraft carrier player without any actions to perform other than setting the ship's route. We want to preserve battle dynamics without excluding the aircraft carrier commander from the game for almost a minute. It has been decided not to introduce the preparation time for squadrons in the tested form, and to consider other options for influencing the aircraft's time of arrival to control areas:

 

  • Move aircraft carriers' spawn points away from control areas;
  • Move other ships' spawn points closer to control areas;
  • Add the preparation time for planes in the beginning of battle, but no longer than 20 seconds;
  • Additional change to engine boost - planes will start with the engine boost depleted, which will not allow them to accelerate at the beginning of battle, but will make boosted maneuvers possible in the active phase of the battle.

 

The implementation of these points will make battles more active, without creating discomfort for players on aircraft carriers. We are not ready to report on the exact timing of the introduction of these changes, but we plan to do this around the autumn updates.

 

In one of the next updates we plan to introduce a soft limit on the number of aircraft carriers in battles of VIII - IX tiers. In the first minute of waiting for the player whose been waiting for the longest time in the queue, there will be a restriction - no more than 1 aircraft carrier per team. From the second minute of waiting the battle will be assembled with a limit of no more than 2 aircraft carriers per side, and no more than three starting from the third minute.

 

This change will significantly reduce the number of battles of VIII - IX tiers with two aircraft carriers in each team. This will be specially noticeable for tier VI ships: they will fight against two tier VIII aircraft carriers much less often than is experienced now.

 

Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

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Good. The delay on CV plane launch was not a good idea and would not have made life more comfortable for DD players or improved overall game activity : it would probably have made it worse. 

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5 minutes ago, Tanatoy said:

Presently, this flow is broken by early detection from the air...

 

6 minutes ago, Tanatoy said:

we plan to do this around the autumn updates.

 

So you're saying the flow is broken but you aren't going to have it fixed until autumn?

 

The changes sound good and all, I like the sound of the more varied and intelligent changes to delay the CVs power in the opening minute of the game, and the limited MM of CVs in t8 games would be great, but that is a hell of a long time to wait for something you admit is broken.

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[PUPSI]
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Vor 12 Minuten, Tanatoy sagte:

However this change created a long waiting period for the aircraft carrier player without any actions to perform other than setting the ship's route.

 

and in which way is this different for other classes? What can a slow BB do more in the beginning of a battle as setting a course?

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2 minutes ago, Klopirat said:

and in which way is this different for other classes? What can a slow BB do more in the beginning of a battle as setting a course?

BBs dont get sent back to the spawn once they fire.

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Vor 1 Minute, Astolfo_Is_My_Waifu sagte:

BBs dont get sent back to the spawn once they fire.

 

CVs don't get a new start delay when squads are destroyed...

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Just now, Klopirat said:

CVs don't get a new start delay when squads are destroyed...

You still have to fly to your targets every time, whether the squad gets destroyed or not.

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Vor 28 Minuten, Tanatoy sagte:

 

However this change created a long waiting period for the aircraft carrier player without any actions to perform other than setting the ship's route. We want to preserve battle dynamics without excluding the aircraft carrier commander from the game for almost a minute. It has been decided not to introduce the preparation time for squadrons in the tested form, and to consider other options for influencing the aircraft's time of arrival to control areas:

 

So what exactly would have been the difference according to the other ships then?
Any class can't do anything than moving during the first minute...

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25 minutes ago, Tanatoy said:

Additional change to engine boost - planes will start with the engine boost depleted, which will not allow them to accelerate at the beginning of battle, but will make boosted maneuvers possible in the active phase of the battle.

This is the one with the most sensible odds of implementation. Not only because it's the least invasive change out of those listed, but it also allows to work as an additional balancing vector as individual CVs can be adjusted to have a faster (initial) boost recovery rate compared to others.

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2 minutes ago, Maviba_76 said:

So what exactly would have been the difference according to the other ships then?
Any class can't do anything than moving during the first minute...

Probably because maneuvering the CV hull is not the same as positioning other surface ships, it's not like you're positioning planes near caps but unable to use them for attacking, you can't even start positioning for 45 seconds.

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Vor 10 Minuten, Astolfo_Is_My_Waifu sagte:

Probably because maneuvering the CV hull is not the same as positioning other surface ships, it's not like you're positioning planes near caps but unable to use them for attacking, you can't even start positioning for 45 seconds.

Maybe you're right.
But i wouldn't the delay consider as that much of an issue. Open the map, get an overview, set course, close map and 45 secs are almost over ;-)

We already had it in pre-rework times. So at least a delay to the old values would be aprecciated.

 

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21 minutes ago, Maviba_76 said:

Maybe you're right.
But i wouldn't the delay consider as that much of an issue. Open the map, get an overview, set course, close map and 45 secs are almost over ;-)

We already had it in pre-rework times. So at least a delay to the old values would be aprecciated.

 

Agreed, the delay didnt sound unreasonable.

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1 hour ago, Tanatoy said:

we plan to do this around the autumn updates.

 

giphy.gif

 

 

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[WGP2W]
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What about a delay time every time they launch a squadron? You pick the squadron you want to launch and than wait 30 seconds before they take off.

 

It is the continuous stream of planes that annoys players...

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So for a Shimakaze it's ok to wait 2.5 minutes before you can launch your first wave (of torpedoes), if the CV doesn't break your torp tubes and you have to wait another 2.5 minutes, but if the CV has to wait 45 seconds before launching his planes to blast that Shimakaze out of the water, it is too much...

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16 minutes ago, _DemonGuard_ said:

So for a Shimakaze it's ok to wait 2.5 minutes before you can launch your first wave (of torpedoes), if the CV doesn't break your torp tubes and you have to wait another 2.5 minutes, but if the CV has to wait 45 seconds before launching his planes to blast that Shimakaze out of the water, it is too much...

But isn't Shimas main task to spot and attack a cap perhaps?

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19 minutes ago, _DemonGuard_ said:

So for a Shimakaze it's ok to wait 2.5 minutes before you can launch your first wave (of torpedoes), if the CV doesn't break your torp tubes and you have to wait another 2.5 minutes, but if the CV has to wait 45 seconds before launching his planes to blast that Shimakaze out of the water, it is too much...

I'd also argue that shima waiting longer for 15 torps of ~24k listed damage each, a total of 360k damage, makes total sense compared to something like even a haku torpedo squadron which can drop 12x 10k dmg torps for a total of 120k dmg if all TBs get their drops. Even if the Haku can make 3 squadrons worth of strikes in 2.5 mins, which it would probably struggle to do, it would only match the damage potential.

 

But of course, there are a lot more things to consider when it comes to torps, like how shimas launchers have quite poor spread and her positioning is a lot easier to anticipate than fast moving aircraft.

 

Besides, the reason weapons start the game empty is because years ago when they started fully loaded people would just torp each other in the spawn to TK each other and BBs could fire at the enemy spawn immediately on some maps.

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10 minutes ago, Astolfo_Is_My_Waifu said:

I'd also argue that shima waiting longer for 15 torps of ~24k listed damage each, a total of 360k damage, makes total sense compared to something like even a haku torpedo squadron which can drop 12x 10k dmg torps for a total of 120k dmg if all TBs get their drops. Even if the Haku can make 3 squadrons worth of strikes in 2.5 mins, which it would probably struggle to do, it would only match the damage potential.

No, it doesn't make any sense, because the CV has 2.5 minutes time to find me and the moment i'm spotted even if only briefly, Shimakaze torps are completely useless, because everyone knows where they will come from. The CV can attack everywhere on the map and even in a good AA ship a CV gets at least one strike on you. On top, the CV can do both at the same time: ruining your game by spotting you and striking you/other ships nearby.

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2 minutes ago, _DemonGuard_ said:

No, it doesn't make any sense, because the CV has 2.5 minutes time to find me and the moment i'm spotted even if only briefly, Shimakaze torps are completely useless, because everyone knows where they will come from. The CV can attack everywhere on the map and even in a good AA ship a CV gets at least one strike on you. On top, the CV can do both at the same time: ruining your game by spotting you and striking you/other ships nearby.

For starters, Shima torps reload in 2 mins. Secondly, the delay wasnt designed to prevent CVs from getting early strikes on people, just to reduce their early game spotting that interfered with positioning. Even if they did add a 45 second delay, thats not going to protect you from having to reload torps again if they get destroyed if youre getting striked 60 seconds into the game. Besides, you're still comparing a delay on armament reloading like guns and torps, which was added because people TKed in cap etc, to a delay on plane launching added to reduce spotting. They exist for entirely different reasons, just because WG changes their minds on CV delay doesnt mean every other class should be exempt.

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24 minutes ago, Astolfo_Is_My_Waifu said:

For starters, Shima torps reload in 2 mins. Secondly, the delay wasnt designed to prevent CVs from getting early strikes on people, just to reduce their early game spotting that interfered with positioning. Even if they did add a 45 second delay, thats not going to protect you from having to reload torps again if they get destroyed if youre getting striked 60 seconds into the game. Besides, you're still comparing a delay on armament reloading like guns and torps, which was added because people TKed in cap etc, to a delay on plane launching added to reduce spotting. They exist for entirely different reasons, just because WG changes their minds on CV delay doesnt mean every other class should be exempt.

For facts: F3 torps (which are pretty much useless since the CV rework) have the fasted reload with 131 seconds which is already more than 2 minutes. The others have 150 and 153.

I never said, i want to start with my torps loaded at the start. Why are you coming up with that all the time? Noone asked for it.

And the point isn't if my torps are still not loaded after 45 seconds. The point is: WG thinks 45 seconds at the start of the match where you can only move your ship isn't acceptable for the impatient CV players, while pretty much every other ship class is only doing that: moving their ships (most of the time much longer than 45 seconds before they can do anything else).

 

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27 minutes ago, _DemonGuard_ said:

For facts: F3 torps (which are pretty much useless since the CV rework) have the fasted reload with 131 seconds which is already more than 2 minutes. The others have 150 and 153.

I never said, i want to start with my torps loaded at the start. Why are you coming up with that all the time? Noone asked for it.

And the point isn't if my torps are still not loaded after 45 seconds. The point is: WG thinks 45 seconds at the start of the match where you can only move your ship isn't acceptable for the impatient CV players, while pretty much every other ship class is only doing that: moving their ships (most of the time much longer than 45 seconds before they can do anything else).

 

153 seconds is stock, you should be using TAE and TTM to bring it down to 117.

 

Your first post was comparing waiting 2.5 mins at the start of the battle as DD vs 45 seconds at the start of the battle with CV as they should both have a delay or neither have a delay.

 

But waiting 45 seconds at the start would be fine as a balance mechanic if it wasn't such a lazy way to solve the issue, it works but it's boring for players. Their suggestions of moving CV spawns further back and starting the game without engine boost, in addition to other changes they're implementing like the nerfed engine boost coming in 8.4 and potential future changes to how CV spotting translates into team spotting are all much better fixes than just having the CV player set auto pilot and do nothing for 40 seconds. WG is still aiming to achieve the same result, they're just doing it differently. I'd assume from the update that they still feel there is value in delaying CVs but not by adding a straight 45s cooldown.

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This change might have made the up coming ranked season a little bit playable... maybe. Without it, no chance.

 

And delaying it so far is just totally insane. Are you just waiting to see how far your player base can drop? You really don't seem to feel how unsatisfied a lot of people are with the current state of the game, which is a large part to blame on the abundance of CV's, their spotting and their completely risk free interaction with everything else.

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For me this sounds like this changes will not hit the live servers before the next ranked season starts. As a DD Main this now ruins ranked for me.

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