Steamrolls have to stop!!

[cuddlesRO]

I have lost count of battles where the enemy / my team just steamrolls through and I think this just proves how bad this game is designed and more importantly the retarded MM engine / RNG schema.  Steamrolls are not fun for any of the teams involved. Some of you might think that things like this happen only because of the skill of players in the team but this is very far from truth. Hey , they are good ...they deserve it right? No! It happens because many variables  like  ships , platoons ,  favourable RNG , players and MM which can be controlled to a certain point to provide a proper gameplay experience and not where the other team just obliterates the other in 3-4 minutes.  They have the data and based on that they should be offering a decent and fair gameplay experience not games which end in 5 minutes. Unfortunately WG sucks so bad at this.

 

At some point it just looks like a rigged experience where the game tells you "It's ok , you need to lose this one because I say so"  . It's just stupid to see the enemy or our team with only 1-2 or no losses while enemy/ our team is destroyed completely. It's just impossible to have such a unbalanced result with all the retardness of some players.  

 

Steamrolls are not fun and I think WG should study and analyse all those stupid games and see what and why the gameplay went this way (was it because we matched 3x minotaurs against Hindeburgs?!  Was it because we matched 2x Harugumos against 1 gearing and 1 shima?? Or maybe a platoons of good players against people that play their ship for the first time? ) against and prevent it by provided a fair balanced MM.  This is just catastrophe from a gameplay point of view.  I'm not going to keep playing if this crap goes on.  It has come to a point that just makes this game really hard to play further because it offers very little in terms of enjoyment and a ton in terms of frustrations

[Fat_Maniac]

MM can be an issue, when it comes to the fair distribution of consumables.

 

But every team has to adapt and work with what they are given.

 

Steam rolls aren't fun, I prefer the close are we / arent we gonna win battles.

 

But the steam rolls happen not because of the MM, but because the average player refuses to adapt to the situation or read the flow of battle

[cuddlesRO]

7 minutes ago, Fat_Maniac said:

MM can be an issue, when it comes to the fair distribution of consumables.

 

But every team has to adapt and work with what they are given.

 

Steam rolls aren't fun, I prefer the close are we / arent we gonna win battles.

 

But the steam rolls happen not because of the MM, but because the average player refuses to adapt to the situation or read the flow of battle

Let's not put everything on players. Also not all ships can "adapt" in a moment and change flanks as fast as it can be. The amount of steam rolls can be a very good index for a badly balanced game.

[Beastofwar]

Streamrolls can only occur if the allied line collapses. Has nothing to do with MM, and everything with your temporary teammates.

 

It just happens....quite often. I see it too, and even fighting so hard i score better then 2/3 of the winning team WITH their win bonus i lose anyway. Too bad, next match....

 

I do know also the most frustrated players are stat fanatics....they are really the only ones that are most hurt by losing. I often still make 200k-600k credits losing. I'd rater win too, but credits and XP  is what makes my clock tick. Stop caring about WR ( unimportant anyway ) , just fight, deal tons of damage and earn credits and XP.

[cuddlesRO]

9 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

Streamrolls can only occur if the allied line collapses. Has nothing to do with MM, and everything with your temporary teammates.

 

It just happens....quite often. I see it too, and even fighting so hard i score better then 2/3 of the winning team WITH their win bonus i lose anyway. Too bad, next match....

 

I do know also the most frustrated plyers are stat fanatics....they are really the only ones that are really hurt by losing. I often still make 200k-600k credits losing. I'd rater win too, but credits and XP  is what makes my clock tick.

So you are saying that losing a game where your entire team is obliterated while the enemy team loses just 1 ship is the result of "random selection of teammates"  and then you say  it has nothing to do with MM (you basically contradict yourself) :) You also seem to confuse stats with having a good gameplay experience. I for one don't care about stats , but I do care about having a game that doesn't end in 5 minutes.

[Beastofwar]

6 minutes ago, clocky said:

So you are saying that losing a game where your entire team is obliterated while the enemy team loses just 1 ship is the result of "random selection of teammates"  and then you say  it has nothing to do with MM :)

 

I am saying there isn't a thing i can do about it......so i go for tons of damage as i get paid well for that at least no matter win or lose. And i don't care about WR and such, and one of the reasons is just such wild randomness in chances i have no power over to influence.

 

You can't do anything about it either. And if WG is to blame for an unfair MM system, they put it in on purpose and are unlikely to change it.....

[thiextar]

27 minutes ago, clocky said:

-snip-

Actually, from a mathematical standpoint, steamrolls are an inevitability of no-respawn gamemodes, no matter how well balanced the match is at the start.

 

A simplified explanation:

 

We start off with a 12v12 perfectly balanced situation. One player in team 2 dies.

Now its 12v11, team 1 therefore has more guns, and therefore on average 9% more damage output, so theres a higher chance that the next dead player will also belong to team 2, because they are outgunned. Team 2 loses a player.

Now its 12v10, team 1 has 20% more firepower than team 2, therefore the chance of team 2 losing a player is even higher.

etc etc etc.

 

Think of it like an airplane flying with tilted-down wings, no matter how balanced it is when it starts flying, its gonna roll onto its belly, because it is an unstable design.

[cuddlesRO]

You calculation is good in theory but in the game not all warships are in one place at once.  Ss such losing a gun on a front is not such a big deal. Other could compensate. While yes , losing a player is bad losing 12 while the enemy loses none or 1 or 2 makes no sense to me from a gameplay perspective. Either MM  went wrong from the beginning or other variables. But WG has this data and knows ... for ex ..

 

 

If i match 3 x harugumos  against 3x other dd there is change team B wins more or vice versa

If i  X with Y in team A and Z with X in team B ... team B has a better chance of winning.

 

and so on.

 

The problem here is the multitude of game like this. I called them dead games. That is a big problem with this game. Other that just enjoy doing damage knowing it's a lost game. I don't care about doing damage , doing stats whatever. I care for a game that doesn't end so quickly and so stupid with such predictable results almost going into a rigged experience.

[DFens_666]

36 minutes ago, clocky said:

It happens because many variables  like  ships , platoons ,  favourable RNG , players and MM which can be controlled to a certain point to provide a proper gameplay experience and not where the other team just obliterates the other in 3-4 minutes.

 

So basicly you want the game to be rigged against you, in case your team is winning, by having worse RNG f.e.?

That sounds like fun

 

It cant be 100% balanced. Even sometimes best players die early because of bad luck (detonation from random torphit f.e.). Then what?

3 minutes ago, clocky said:

If i match 3 x harugumos  against 3x other dd there is change team B wins more or vice versa

If i  X with Y in team A and Z with X in team B ... team B has a better chance of winning. 

 

They didnt even want to accnowledge that, back when one team could have 1 DD/BB more while others had 2 Cruisers. They said, everything was fine. I was heavily under the impression, that 2 Cruisers are simply worse than 1 BB+DD. Luckily, they changed MM in that regard.

[thiextar]

4 minutes ago, clocky said:

You calculation is good in theory but in the game not all warships are in one place at once.  Ss such losing a gun on a front is not such a big deal. Other could compensate. While yes , losing a player is bad losing 12 while the enemy loses none or 1 or 2 makes no sense to me from a gameplay perspective. Either MM  went wrong from the beginning or other variables. But WG has this data and knows ... for ex ..

Specific circumstances are irrelevant to average steamrolls-ratio. Over a large sample size, these circumstances will cancel each other out, so the only thing relevant for predictions and calculations is simply how many ships are on each team.

 

I think you interpret my point wrong tho, it doesnt mean that every battle will be a steamroll, they definitely arent. What it means is that inevitably, a lot of battles statistically have to be steamrolls.

 

The very specific circumstances that becomes irrelevant over a large sample size, are the circumstances that defines a match, and its these circumstances that lets us have really close matches sometimes.

[Spellfire40]

Just now, DFens_666 said:

 

So basicly you want the game to be rigged against you, in case your team is winning, by having worse RNG f.e.?

That sounds like fun

 

It cant be 100% balanced. Even sometimes best players die early because of bad luck (detonation from random torphit f.e.). Then what?

The best players usally get killed by unpredicable weekendplayers ,-) you can predict decent players to a degree and  and calculate that in your own gameplay at least. Thogh that is half the fun no body would like games were none moves because the 1st one who blinks get killed and starts the avalanche to a loose. Bet you saw your team wining more than once then for some stupid reason charge the enemy spawn and get kited and killed  when they had a clear win in the bag by ownage of the capture points.... and more rng ? i allready have a GkF thats enogh rng for a lifetime 

[CptBarney]

Steamrolls happen when a ship gets taken out (usually a good ship) and has a decent player in it, then this will result in the rest of the ships on that flank (especially if they are lower tiers) getting destroyed over time by the now numerically superior forces, causing an overrun on that flank, which is more noticeable when the numerically superior flank on your own team fails to push for whatever reason.

 

Sometimes it can be the reverse effect where a numerical outnumbered flank manages to kill 1-2 ships which makes the other ships poo themselves so they just sort of sit there which can then allow the flank to force their way through and butcher the other flank.

 

In pro games, it's a lot more tight and stomps are more rare since pro's would need to get into decent positions to do so (which every pro gamer is trying to do inside that match).

[ColonelPete]

52 minutes ago, clocky said:

At some point it just looks like a rigged experience where the game tells you "It's ok , you need to lose this one because I say so"  . It's just stupid to see the enemy or our team with only 1-2 or no losses while enemy/ our team is destroyed completely. It's just impossible to have such a unbalanced result with all the retardness of some players. 

The only way to prevent streamrolls IS rigging....

[DFens_666]

4 minutes ago, Spellfire40 said:

Bet you saw your team wining more than once then for some stupid reason charge the enemy spawn and get kited and killed  when they had a clear win in the bag by ownage of the capture points.... and more rng ? i allready have a GkF thats enogh rng for a lifetime 

 

One of my first Hindenburg games... literally wanted to quit the game that day. We had 11 vs 8 ship advantage (or something like that) and 2 Caps. And we had 970 points. Then it all started. One by one they fed themselves to the campers, while we were 30 secs away from winning several times. In the end, even our CV yoloed to die.

I will never forget that one, was one of the most horrible games ever

[veslingr]

56 minutes ago, clocky said:

Let's not put everything on players. Also not all ships can "adapt" in a moment and change flanks as fast as it can be. The amount of steam rolls can be a very good index for a badly balanced game.

One and only reason for fast games are incredible amount of bad players. Nothing more. 

[RenamedUser_92906789]

Maybe coaching is the answer (the other topic) 

[AgarwaenME]

?

[Egoleter]

Steamrolls can't be prevented unless the battle is activly manipulated during its runtime.

[Atankean]

There is only one reliable way to prevent steamrolls and that is if you buff the remaining ships in the losing team.

 

There was a new mode in the latest April Fools event where you would have an offensive and a defensive team. The attackers could respawn, meaning they were always in full strenght, somewhat reflecting the numerical superiority in matches that end up in Steamrolls. The defenders however, did not respawn but to counter this obvious and normally catastrophic weakness, after they lost ships, any remaining ships would get significant buffs, enabling them to hold out against superior numbers.

 

This is the only way you can stop Steamrolls. 

 

You make it sound like every second match in Wows is a Steamroll, well that does not correspond with my experience so far. In fact, clear cut steamrolls are very rare (one team has nearly all ships left, other team loses all). Most of the time teams win with half their ships alive but with signs of combat damage, which is quite normal and I would not call that "Steamroll".

 

While I agree that Steamrolls can be an indication of bad game design (and wows is not perfect by no means), it has to occur much more often to be the case here. 

 

If you really want to get a good indicative measure of game design concerning Steamrolls, you should not base your studies on Random matches, where players and player experience and skill differences are a huge factor but rather look at professional level tournaments like KOTS (King of the Sea) for example. There you have the closest you can get to two balanced team in regard of player skills, thereby mostly eliminating this factor and then you can take a look at the game design and see for yourself how often Steamrolls happen.

 

In a game like wows, especially in randoms, you can never eliminate Steamrolls completely. If nothing else, Murphys Law alone will make sure that it occasionally happen. Even if the teams are balanced in player skills, if one team gets lucky with RNG while the other gets unlucky and they manage to score couple critical hits and eliminate some key ships from the get go, they might get such a momentum that the enemy team just collapses and can do nothing against it. Despite their best efforts.

 

I'm not sure if the problem is as big as you suggest to be honest.

[barbabarba]

The truth is that MM is total sh*****,  WR should be equity spread through  both teams now it is normal to have 2  or 3 player in one team with WR above 55% and other team has noobs with 41%.... But nothing gona change as WOWS is maintaining present situation and sliding form one mistake to other...

[ColonelPete]

5 minutes ago, barbabarba said:

WR should be equity spread through 

Statistics say otherwise...

[barbabarba]

Please explain....

[DFens_666]

11 minutes ago, barbabarba said:

The truth is that MM is total sh*****,  WR should be equity spread through  both teams now it is normal to have 2  or 3 player in one team with WR above 55% and other team has noobs with 41%.... But nothing gona change as WOWS is maintaining present situation and sliding form one mistake to other...

 

MM usually doesnt have enough >60% WR players to put them in both teams. So whats gonna happen then? Only because you are good, you have to sit in queue, probably waiting for a Unicum div to be matched against your own?

That so many players - especially in hightiers - suck [edited], is not the fault of the good players.

[ColonelPete]

5 minutes ago, barbabarba said:

Please explain....

Really?

 

When you throw dice 6 times, you do not get every number once.

The numbers can be totally random: 3x1, 2x2, 1x6.

 

Even with each team having an equal chance of having a good player, this does not mean that in every match the good players are equally distributed.

One team can have 3, the other 0.

When you look at ALL matches, then the distribution is even, but not for the individual match.

 

That is basic statistics.

[BrushWolf2]

I haven't posted over here for some time but it is nice to see that the more things change that they remain the same. Skill based match making which this post is really about won't get rid of steamrolls.