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Asureas

Daring/Jutland & Skill retention

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Just unlocked and bought Daring (lots of saving up)

 

My first impressions are that I miss Jutland.

 

Daring has a bigger health pool but it's still a dd so that gets whittled down rapidly anyway, rate of fire is higher (I think) but Jutland is hardly low in that respect.

Ruddershift (the mainstay of survival in Jutland) and concealment is worse.

All in all whereas you could relatively easily run from fire dodge and duke shells/rockets in Jutland it feels harder in Daring, and that extra health doesn't go very far.

AAA doesn't seem much better (odd given her guns were specifically AAA)

Unless I'm missing something...

 

Anyway all of this gave me an idea - it's often pointed out that there aren't many Tier IX tech tree ships in the game, reasons given include people selling them to buy Tier Xs which is probably true (doing it with out doing so is rather painful).

 

But another factor I believe is that Tier IXs are generally only properly funcitonal with a relatively highly skilled commander (14-16 points or so, ideally higher).

 

Recreating one of these is a major undertaking (or at least it feels so to me) , I understand that commander specialisation etc. is a mechanic that enourages premium ships, time investment in the game etc. but perhaps having a commander retain their past 1 or 2 specialisations?

 

Thanks!

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Asureas said:

Just unlocked and bought Daring (lots of saving up)

 

My first impressions are that I miss Jutland.

 

Daring has a bigger health pool but it's still a dd so that gets whittled down rapidly anyway, rate of fire is higher (I think) but Jutland is hardly low in that respect.

Ruddershift (the mainstay of survival in Jutland) and concealment is worse.

All in all whereas you could relatively easily run from fire dodge and duke shells/rockets in Jutland it feels harder in Daring, and that extra health doesn't go very far.

AAA doesn't seem much better (odd given her guns were specifically AAA)

Unless I'm missing something...

 

Anyway all of this gave me an idea - it's often pointed out that there aren't many Tier IX tech tree ships in the game, reasons given include people selling them to buy Tier Xs which is probably true (doing it with out doing so is rather painful).

 

But another factor I believe is that Tier IXs are generally only properly funcitonal with a relatively highly skilled commander (14-16 points or so, ideally higher).

 

Recreating one of these is a major undertaking (or at least it feels so to me) , I understand that commander specialisation etc. is a mechanic that enourages premium ships, time investment in the game etc. but perhaps having a commander retain their past 1 or 2 specialisations?

 

Thanks!

 

 

I recognise much of what you are saying, and sometimes the last ship seems much better, particularly lower tiers when the Stock isn't any better than the maxed out previous ship.

That said, I never clicked with the Jutland and love the Daring. I don't regret dumping the Jutland but often wonder whether I should get it back for variation!.

The idea that the Captain could have two ship specialities, even if in the same tree is very attractive, I must say.

 

On your list of Daring "features" you missed out that she is a bigger target than the Jutland and seems a lot less stealthy!

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I felt the same, but you see it with many tier 9 DDs that are better than their tier 10s imo; Chung Mu, Kitakaze, Fletcher, Tashkent and Z46.

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I founded the Jutland more versatile than the Daring. And as LemonadeWarrior stated there are similar ships that perform better compared to the tier X DD’s. 

But the Daring is actually a smaller target and has godlike acceleration. Play more with the throttle I would say. Daring DPS is also superiour to the Jutland. 

 

Overall I play the Jutland more, maybe due to its MM. 

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I'm just about to unlock the Daring so this was interesting that some people find the Jutland easier, I guess it's a bit like the Kitakaze & Harugumo. Still I'm looking forward to trying the Daring, but I do like the idea of the captain skills being retained although I will just dump a load of free captain XP onto a 10 pointer I have sat on the reserve list.

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I also was disappointed when I got the Daring and I still think that the Jutland is just a much better experience mainly due to the 0.3km better stealth allows you to get the drop on most DDs unlike the Daring, also the Daring is a much taller target and as such seems to take far more incoming fire. Though my biggest problem is how easy it is for modules to be knocked out I have had at times 2 turrets, the engine, the Rudder and a torpedo tube all knocked out in 1 hit, I even had it happen about 3 times in the span of a minute the only other DD I have had this issue in was the Z-46 where early game I had 1 torpedo tube destroyed and not long later the other as well and ended up having to play a full gunboat DD...

 

I kept the Jutland and elite captain XP'd a 10 point captain to 14 points and used it last ranked season to much success... still have trouble with the Daring it either does well or gets all modules knocked out and your left helpless, I end up using it more as a bad torpedo Boat rather than actively fighting DDs as you can't either get the drop on them or 1 random supporting salvo will knock out 2 of your guns turning a easy fight into a complete loss.

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The state of the Daring and Jutland is similar to the Kite and Haru. The kite is more flexable than the Haru, but the line itself fixates on the crazy dps ect ect and the haru is better than that. I personally love both the Daring and Jut, your opinion on it might change over time, since different ships take different times to click. Also to the point with the cpt skills, with the amount of flags that can be earned from CB or missions, you dont need a prem ship to farm cpt xp. 

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On 5/19/2019 at 10:27 AM, Asureas said:

Just unlocked and bought Daring (lots of saving up)

 

My first impressions are that I miss Jutland.

 

Daring has a bigger health pool but it's still a dd so that gets whittled down rapidly anyway, rate of fire is higher (I think) but Jutland is hardly low in that respect.

Ruddershift (the mainstay of survival in Jutland) and concealment is worse.

All in all whereas you could relatively easily run from fire dodge and duke shells/rockets in Jutland it feels harder in Daring, and that extra health doesn't go very far.

AAA doesn't seem much better (odd given her guns were specifically AAA)

Unless I'm missing something...

 

Anyway all of this gave me an idea - it's often pointed out that there aren't many Tier IX tech tree ships in the game, reasons given include people selling them to buy Tier Xs which is probably true (doing it with out doing so is rather painful).

 

But another factor I believe is that Tier IXs are generally only properly funcitonal with a relatively highly skilled commander (14-16 points or so, ideally higher).

 

Recreating one of these is a major undertaking (or at least it feels so to me) , I understand that commander specialisation etc. is a mechanic that enourages premium ships, time investment in the game etc. but perhaps having a commander retain their past 1 or 2 specialisations?

 

Thanks!

 

 

When i go up a tech tree line i Generally keep 2 commanders and skip a ship each time.. That way by the time i get to  IX i have 2 17+ point Commanders. I actually prefer Jutland to Daring.  I do this not least as im somewhat of a horder when it comes to DD's I have just about every DD in the game still in port. 

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Well it is a bit weird that a captain suddenly looses his memory from his former ship when moved to a new one.
I always felt this was wrong, although I understand the game-play point of view about this.
Same thing counts for the total knowledge he suddenly can have in his new vessel , as long as I pay 500 gold.... 
So this is all about the money.

I would gladly pay some gold to give him split specialization of the ships he was already captain in.
Even better, if this option is only open to choose if played x amount of battles in it.
This way you still will need different commanders because of the skill differ per ship. (if it require other skills)

 

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I always keep TIX and TX on all my lines and my favourite DDs per tier are Grozovoi, Z-52, Shimakaze for TX, Chung-Mu, Kitakaze, Fletcher and Jutland for TIX. Cannot comment on the Khaba line, as I suck in both tiers. Pre-nerf, I liked YY as much as CM, but hey, who didn't?

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I've been struggling with this, having just earned the ship XP to get Daring. 

Jutland has been a very comfortable T9 destroyer for me, and it doesn't seem to matter if it's a T10 game. It's a sneaky little boat, very agile, very good concealment and long hydro for staying safe. I get a lot of caps but often not a lot of damage. In fact I don't fire the guns very often, since I can mostly choose the fights.

 

Daring is better in some respects but inarguably worse in others, and overall I'm not convinced.  Regarding AA, Jutland's mid range is actually more powerful in case you're actually attacked.

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33 minutes ago, RambaRal said:

I always keep TIX and TX on all my lines and my favourite DDs per tier are Grozovoi, Z-52, Shimakaze for TX, Chung-Mu, Kitakaze, Fletcher and Jutland for TIX. Cannot comment on the Khaba line, as I suck in both tiers. Pre-nerf, I liked YY as much as CM, but hey, who didn't?

Rule number one of the Khaba. forget EVERYTHING you learned playing DD's. You have to play her completely different to all the other DD's. I was really really crap in her as well till i realised this. Know im starting to get better in her.

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22 hours ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

I felt the same, but you see it with many tier 9 DDs that are better than their tier 10s imo; Chung Mu, Kitakaze, Fletcher, Tashkent and Z46.

Tashkent... well that is bad news since I can't get that bloody thing to work.

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2 minutes ago, ilhilh said:

Tashkent... well that is bad news since I can't get that bloody thing to work.

I hated it, and just went back to Kiev.

Khabarovsk, however, is a completely different beast. I've seen it carrying games many, many times. It's easy to see but very difficult to kill -- if the skipper knows what he's doing. I haven't seen the same kind of performance by a Tashkent.

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23 hours ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

I felt the same, but you see it with many tier 9 DDs that are better than their tier 10s imo; Chung Mu, Kitakaze, Fletcher, Tashkent and Z46.

 

Well after Gearing got Fletcher torps as stock option I'm not sure about this. Biggest issue with Gearing is an old model which sits too high in the water and it is too wide if I'm not wrong. If WG would fix this I think that Gearing would actually become better option between two ships as it should be. So we can hope for some Gearing class premium ship soon as that seems the only way the WG will update old model of the ship.

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8 hours ago, ilhilh said:

Tashkent... well that is bad news since I can't get that bloody thing to work.

Ehh... Good luck :D Khabarovsk has less range and takes more damage.

 

7 hours ago, fumtu said:

 

Well after Gearing got Fletcher torps as stock option I'm not sure about this. Biggest issue with Gearing is an old model which sits too high in the water and it is too wide if I'm not wrong. If WG would fix this I think that Gearing would actually become better option between two ships as it should be. So we can hope for some Gearing class premium ship soon as that seems the only way the WG will update old model of the ship.

For me it wasn't so much about the torpedoes... Gearing turns like a tugboat compared to the Fletcher :fish_aqua:But everyone has a different taste of course :D

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One thought that occurs is that from (say) T8, WG could allow you to pay doubloons to turn your silver ships into 'semi-premiums' i.e. enable them to take other captains, most crucially.

 

This way you could keep playing silver ships that you'd gone past on the tree without having to use sub-optimal captains, and WG would make some money too.

 

Fun as it might be, I would think adding such a capacity below around T8 would be unwise, as you'd risk people doing it to lower tier ships for seal-clubbing purposes...

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