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VeidraVontae

Using IFHE on Des Moines and Hindenburg?

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Does it have any effect? 

Because it does look like my Worcester with IFHE damages more than Des Moines against any ship. I could be wrong too. :D And i have Roon now and it does less damage ofc. Hindenburg on the way. (MAKE BATTLESHIP HINDENBURG GREAT AGAIN!)

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No.

 

More elobarate answer, Des Moin has the same HE pen as the Wooster with IFHE. And Hindenburg and Roon can already pen 50 mm plates regardless.

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5 minutes ago, Tayyaruzunlar said:

Does it have any effect? 

Because it does look like my Worcester with IFHE damages more than Des Moines against any ship. I could be wrong too. :D And i have Roon now and it does less damage ofc. Hindenburg on the way. (MAKE BATTLESHIP HINDENBURG GREAT AGAIN!)

Yes, a very small one. Nothing that is worth 4 points.

 

You could look at their fire rates and number of guns and then you would know what causes the difference.

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IFHE on a Hindi would only server to counter the upcoming Kremel but honestly who would take a Kremal over the Pobeda for CB? As for Des moines it get 33mm HE pen which is enough to counter most ships in game but with IFHE you only gain around 47mm which is not enough.

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2 dakika önce, ironhammer500 dedi:

IFHE on a Hindi would only server to counter the upcoming Kremel but honestly who would take a Kremal over the Pobeda for CB? As for Des moines it get 33mm HE pen which is enough to counter most ships in game but with IFHE you only gain around 47mm which is not enough.

Thank you! :)

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2 hours ago, 22cm said:

*EDIT*

Because it is more sociable to discuss these things in the wider audience of the forum, rather than the mere confines of a single clan. :Smile_smile:

It is entirely possible that others may be interested in the OP's question.

 

Let knowledge and enlightenment spread forth upon an ignorant World.

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Only threshold that DM with IFHE can pass is 38mm and only US BBs have deck armour that is 38mm. If you meat A LOT of US BBs in the game then yes, IFHE on DM could be useful, if not then IFHE is waste of points.

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IFHE on the Hindenburg might be good, as now there would be two battleships (Kreml, Yamato) rather than just one that their HE bypasses. That said, the Hindenburg is probably the weakest of the tier X cruisers and you will have more luck playing just about anything else.

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3 hours ago, Tayyaruzunlar said:

4 more points for other things then.

Exactly. I never use IFHE for Cruisers with 203mm or bigger guns, as they already have sufficient pen to damage all they come across anyways and 4 points is a bit pricey so it will be better used for other things as well (AFT, CE - for example), but of course depending on the ship. IFHE is most useful for Cruisers, which have 150-155mm guns, just to give them the little extra pen to compensate for their lack of shell weight, when compared to 203+mm gun Cruisers.:cap_old:

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4 hours ago, RAHJAILARI said:

Exactly. I never use IFHE for Cruisers with 203mm or bigger guns, as they already have sufficient pen to damage all they come across anyways and 4 points is a bit pricey so it will be better used for other things as well (AFT, CE - for example), but of course depending on the ship. IFHE is most useful for Cruisers, which have 150-155mm guns, just to give them the little extra pen to compensate for their lack of shell weight, when compared to 203+mm gun Cruisers.:cap_old:

That leaves the Dimitri with the 180’s... ifhe or not?

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12 minutes ago, Jvd2000 said:

That leaves the Dimitri with the 180’s... ifhe or not?

Without IFHE 29mm pen, with IFHE 38mm pen. Basic maths.

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23 minutes ago, Jvd2000 said:

That leaves the Dimitri with the 180’s... ifhe or not?

Just like he said, I'd take it.. :cap_like:

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What OP needs to understand is how HE penetration works:

 

  • As a rule of thumb* HE penetration is calculated by dividing the caliber of the projectile by 6: so a 203mm HE shell has 33.83mm of HE penetration (that value gets rounded, so up to 34mm).
  • HE penetration only looks at nominal armour thickness: no effective armour strength based on angling like with AP penetration, no overmatching.
  • HE penetration is all-or-nothing: if the armour is equal or thicker than your HE penetration, you shatter. If the armour is thinner than your HE penetration, you penetrate.

 

Those basics out of the way you can calculate how much HE penetration any given caliber in the game has* and then match it against any given armour value to see if you penetrate or shatter.

 

To expand on what caliber benefits the most from IFHE, common armour thresholds are what you want to look at. That means principal hull platings in most cases as that is what you will be aiming for and hitting most of the time (as you won't want to shoot the thick mainbelt armour with HE after all). Several common thresholds are shared between ship classes or very common on specific classes at certain shiptiers. The most common are:

 

  • 16mm for lower tier cruiser hulls and ship superstructures (any gun with a caliber of 102mm or higher will penetrate that with HE).
  • 19mm for lower tier battleships hulls, middle tier cruiser hulls and middle to higher tier ship superstructures (any gun with a caliber of 120mm or higher will penetrate with HE).
  • 25mm for middle tier battleship and higher tier cruiser hulls (caliber of 156mm or higher required to penetrate with HE). Here we see how ships with 152mm/155mm have just not enough HE pen to damage that plating and would thus benefit from IFHE as it would buff a 152mm caliber's HE penetration to 32.93 (rounded to 33mm) which beats up to 32mm of armour.
  • 32mm for higher tier battleship hulls (caliber of 198mm or required to penetrate with HE). As noted in the previous bullet point, 152mm caliber buffed with IFHE can beat that armour threshold and damage it. Russian 180mm caliber (like on the Kirov/Molotov and Dimitri Donskoy) also require IFHE to penetrate 32mm of armour (with IFHE they have 39mm HE pen).

 

There are other, less universal armour thresholds (such as 21mm on some DD and CV hulls, 35mm on some lower and middle tier BB decks, 38mm on higher tier US BB decks/hull, 50mm on mostly german BB deck/hull, etc. pp.), some of which can be beat if using IFHE on certain gun calibers (the Henry IV's 240mm guns for example can beat up to 51mm of armour, allowing it to damage 50mm clad german BBs and Moskva/Stalingrad 50mm central deck and hull aswell as the Khabarovsk's 50mm troll hull ... or say the Atlanta's 127mm guns can penetrate the 25mm threshold if using IFHE, allowing it to damage middle tier BB hulls) so it's important to do the look at each ship and its common opposition to determine if you benefit. The law of diminishing returns is in full effect!

 

 

 

*Some exceptions to the 1/6 caliber size rule exist which use a 1/4 caliber size formula instead:

  • German cruiser guns of 150mm caliber or higher (allowing for example the german 203mm HE to damage up 50mm of armour even without IFHE).
  • German and RN battleship guns (not that it matters much as BB HE already has such good penetrations thanks to its high caliber).
  • IJN 100mm caliber guns (found on the Aiizuki, Kitakaze and Harugumo; allowing them to beat up to 24mm or armour and thus beat common DD and superstructe armour at their tiers without IFHE and even high tier battleship hulls with IFHE).
  • German 128mm and 150mm caliber secondary guns (if you want to get frisky with an IFHE secondary spec build for shits'n'giggles).

 

That information should give you all you need to check when you require IFHE and/or when you'd get an additional benefit from using it. Just compare the ship's gun caliber with armour values you find yourself facing a lot (the port's armour profile viewer is your friend) and then you can make your own informed decision on whether you think spending 4 captain skill points is worth it or not.

 

 

 

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