CV rework & Destroyers

[JakkTarr]

If the Devs read this, please include an AA buff for several Destroyers in the upcoming patch.

As primarily a DD player, I can live with the current Aircraft damage but it's the CV's ability to keep you spotted for their team to focus fire you that sucks! 

Especially as I have a port load of tier V to VIII destroyers with AA figures so low that I wonder just what they have mounted!?!

An AA of 2 for instance (Gallant), what's that, a guy with a catapult stood on the poop deck?

Seriously though, if these destroyers had some way of either shooting down harassing aircraft, or forcing them to back off, I'd feel like it was more of a fair fight eh?

All the British destroyers have appalling AA, I mean, even the Cossack (tier VIII) has an AA of 9, which I believe is two guys with Lee-Enfield's stood front & rear! 

C'mon Devs, give us DD players a fighting chance & a reason to bother playing please.

Thanks.

[kingzy2013]

16 minutes ago, JakkTarr said:

If the Devs read this, please include an AA buff for several Destroyers in the upcoming patch.

As primarily a DD player, I can live with the current Aircraft damage but it's the CV's ability to keep you spotted for their team to focus fire you that sucks! 

Especially as I have a port load of tier V to VIII destroyers with AA figures so low that I wonder just what they have mounted!?!

An AA of 2 for instance (Gallant), what's that, a guy with a catapult stood on the poop deck?

Seriously though, if these destroyers had some way of either shooting down harassing aircraft, or forcing them to back off, I'd feel like it was more of a fair fight eh?

All the British destroyers have appalling AA, I mean, even the Cossack (tier VIII) has an AA of 9, which I believe is two guys with Lee-Enfield's stood front & rear! 

C'mon Devs, give us DD players a fighting chance & a reason to bother playing please.

Thanks.

as a primary BB player, i would like the devs to reduce the ability of DDs to sit in stealth and keep a BB perm spotted for their team to farm in the next patch. KTYBAI....

 

 

that being said - this is a team game, dont push without AA support. how do DD players not realize pushing alone is suicide and completely their own fault and has nothing to do with their personal AA. 

 

my BBs are not radar ships - generally pushing into DD territory is almost always a suicide run. thats why you dont push alone and ensure radar cruisers are scouting ahead. team game people.... time for dds to realize they are not a 1 man band. 

 

issue is asking for crap like this, everyone has a counter play. CVs spotting and radar is a DDs counterplay. in a perfect game with no cvs or radar a DD could go the entire game unspotted. 

 

a DD should be the safest target for a CV to strike alone, giving them AA which shreds 1/3 of a squad on each pass is seriously bad. there are a few DDS which have beastly AA and are a serious no - no for most sane CVs. that in it self is bad in my eyes. 

 

i dont even play my CVs much but every class has to have counter play. Stock AA on dds should remain low. but if a DD specifically specs for AA, they should be able to make a CV "think twice" before engaging. that way stock DDS are meh and remain a viable option for the CVs and dds who decide they want to hard-counter a single ship have the option to do so. 

 

for example, as a BB player - generally, if i want to hard-counter flame throwers i have to seriously spec into a lot of tank options, flags etc to do so - even then its only so-so effective. 

[Cyclops_]

3 minutes ago, kingzy2013 said:

as a primary BB player, i would like the devs to reduce the ability of DDs to sit in stealth and keep a BB perm spotted for their team to farm in the next patch. KTYBAI....

 

 

that being said - this is a team game, dont push without AA support. how do DD players not realize pushing alone is suicide and completely their own fault and has nothing to do with their personal AA. 

 

my BBs are not radar ships - generally pushing into DD territory is almost always a suicide run. thats why you dont push alone and ensure radar cruisers are scouting ahead. team game people.... time for dds to realize they are not a 1 man band. 

 

issue is asking for crap like this, everyone has a counter play. CVs spotting and radar is a DDs counterplay. in a perfect game with no cvs or radar a DD could go the entire game unspotted. 

 

a DD should be the safest target for a CV to strike alone, giving them AA which shreds 1/3 of a squad on each pass is seriously bad. there are a few DDS which have beastly AA and are a serious no - no for most sane CVs. that in it self is bad in my eyes. 

 

i dont even play my CVs much but every class has to have counter play. Stock AA on dds should remain low. but if a DD specifically specs for AA, they should be able to make a CV "think twice" before engaging. that way stock DDS are meh and remain a viable option for the CVs and dds who decide they want to hard-counter a single ship have the option to do so. 

 

for example, as a BB player - generally, if i want to hard-counter flame throwers i have to seriously spec into a lot of tank options, flags etc to do so - even then its only so-so effective. 

I don’t disagree with a lot you have said, but one thing you don't take into account is the fact that if you come up against another ship in your ship you can manoeuvre behind an island and make an escape, turn away and escape or kill him. As a DD once a CV has you in his sights you can do nothing  against him except shoot his planes, you cant shoot the CV as he is the other side of the map and with out AA like in a  Gallant etc you are unable to defend yourself and you are dead, yes the DD can stay with a CA/BB but he is of no use to the team as his gun range will keep him out of a gun fight, all he can then do is spot and smoke his team mates, which leaves him in a position of losing credits etc as he has not contributed to the game.

[GulvkluderGuld]

Another thread 

 

WG murdered an entire class with the rework but no no no....russians dont make mistakes.

CVs wrecking a DD in 1-2 sorties = working as intended (and now i had some practice, it is still stupidly easy if top tier no matter what the dd does!)

 

Essentially join the CV train or quit the game. I'm still undecided, being bored with CVs.

[GulvkluderGuld]

14 minutes ago, kingzy2013 said:

as a primary BB player, i would like the devs to reduce the ability of DDs to sit in stealth and keep a BB perm spotted for their team to farm in the next patch. KTYBAI....

...

for example, as a BB player - generally, if i want to hard-counter flame throwers i have to seriously spec into a lot of tank options, flags etc to do so - even then its only so-so effective. 

Good points, but one difference is the DDs inability to even contribute to the match when doing as you suggest.

Their weapons lack the range and they cant perform their designed function of spotting.

 

Imagine the first flame thrower hit permanently disables all your BB turrets and secondaries + keep you permaspotted.

Fun and engaging game huh?

[MrWastee]

just read title and am done.-... same sheet, yet off different day... but the day just has begun

[DFens_666]

12 minutes ago, kingzy2013 said:

that being said - this is a team game, dont push without AA support. how do DD players not realize pushing alone is suicide and completely their own fault and has nothing to do with their personal AA. 

 

Cruisers cant push, as they get devastated. Longrange AA is garbage, even for Cruisers. That would mean, DDs have to litereally hug their Cruisers in order to are safe from AA. And even a combo of Wooster/mino is not safe from a CV attack Had a midway, first drop our DD, then turn within my Wooster AA and drop Mino. Yes, he lost all his planes, but he got 2 strikes off, which is imo utterly retarded. He went straight above 2 (supposedly) strong AA ships, and just didnt give a [edited]about it.

 

12 minutes ago, kingzy2013 said:

i dont even play my CVs much but every class has to have counter play.

Counterplay against CVs? Doesnt exist... Killing the hull is basicly impossible against TX CVs, if CV knows what he is doing. CV Hull is retard proof against everything: Shatters HE shells, Shatters BB AP, literally 0 fire damage.

 

12 minutes ago, kingzy2013 said:

for example, as a BB player - generally, if i want to hard-counter flame throwers i have to seriously spec into a lot of tank options, flags etc to do so - even then its only so-so effective. 

 

Speccing into AA is mostly useless tho... Going for tankbuild can be very effective, depending on the ship in question.

[kingzy2013]

1 minute ago, Cyclops_ said:

I don’t disagree with a lot you have said, but one thing you don't take into account is the fact that if you come up against another ship in your ship you can manoeuvre behind an island and make an escape, turn away and escape or kill him. As a DD once a CV has you in his sights you can do nothing  against him except shoot his planes, you cant shoot the CV as he is the other side of the map and with out AA like in a  Gallant etc you are unable to defend yourself and you are dead, yes the DD can stay with a CA/BB but he is of no use to the team as his gun range will keep him out of a gun fight, all he can then do is spot and smoke his team mates, which leaves him in a position of losing credits etc as he has not contributed to the game.

i agree, they get left in a tough spot - but so do some other ships when faced against a DD heavy team. say the GK, new RU bbs will really struggle if they cant push. 

 

sometimes certain ships will just [edited]your game up.  but like i said, giving the AA spec a boost for DDS would be a good solution i think. giving them the option to have a general spec or one focused on repealing cvs. 

 

the big issue is how HE bombs 2shot dds. rockets are meh not to bad. but HE bombs just delete them.

[kingzy2013]

1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Cruisers cant push, as they get devastated. Longrange AA is garbage, even for Cruisers. That would mean, DDs have to litereally hug their Cruisers in order to are safe from AA. And even a combo of Wooster/mino is not safe from a CV attack Had a midway, first drop our DD, then turn within my Wooster AA and drop Mino. Yes, he lost all his planes, but he got 2 strikes off, which is imo utterly retarded. He went straight above 2 (supposedly) strong AA ships, and just didnt give a [edited]about it.

 

Counterplay against CVs? Doesnt exist... Killing the hull is basicly impossible against TX CVs, if CV knows what he is doing. CV Hull is retard proof against everything: Shatters HE shells, Shatters BB AP, literally 0 fire damage.

 

 

Speccing into AA is mostly useless tho... Going for tankbuild can be very effective, depending on the ship in question.

cruisers can push absolutely fine, but most would rather island camp lobbing HE instead of getting their paint scratched. that being said, the once who do push often push with a full broadside on show for the entire team unloading there HE. at no point in time does it occur to them that they outspot a lot of things and dont always need to be shooting until in a safe forward position. even if that means "stop shooting - move with team to next island" start shooting.... 

 

yes there is a big issue with how shooting planes down does nothing to the CV itself. personally a system where each plane lots reduces CV hp by X-amount would be nice. as like you said, if a CV angles well, there practically immune to damage from everything but Big BB shells & torps. 

 

yes exactly, specing into AA is useless and thats the issue. it doesn't do enough. 

 

doesnt help fighters are uselss as the CV will just drop their own fights and both sets of fights kill each other or if the CA/BB fighters win! then go back to the fooking ship. 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 58 Minuten, JakkTarr sagte:

If the Devs read this, please include an AA buff for several Destroyers in the upcoming patch.

As primarily a DD player, I can live with the current Aircraft damage but it's the CV's ability to keep you spotted for their team to focus fire you that sucks! 

Especially as I have a port load of tier V to VIII destroyers with AA figures so low that I wonder just what they have mounted!?!

An AA of 2 for instance (Gallant), what's that, a guy with a catapult stood on the poop deck?

Seriously though, if these destroyers had some way of either shooting down harassing aircraft, or forcing them to back off, I'd feel like it was more of a fair fight eh?

All the British destroyers have appalling AA, I mean, even the Cossack (tier VIII) has an AA of 9, which I believe is two guys with Lee-Enfield's stood front & rear! 

C'mon Devs, give us DD players a fighting chance & a reason to bother playing please.

Thanks.

CV rework discussion thread ☆ offer your ideas ♡

[DFens_666]

11 minutes ago, kingzy2013 said:

cruisers can push absolutely fine, but most would rather island camp lobbing HE instead of getting their paint scratched. that being said, the once who do push often push with a full broadside on show for the entire team unloading there HE. at no point in time does it occur to them that they outspot a lot of things and dont always need to be shooting until in a safe forward position. even if that means "stop shooting - move with team to next island" start shooting....

 

The problem is, CV can spot them while pushing tho. But it will be better with next patch when they introduce starting delay for planes. I think Cruisers can push to their usual locations again, without being spotted.

[ApolloF117]

4 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

The problem is, CV can spot them while pushing tho. But it will be better with next patch when they introduce starting delay for planes. I think Cruisers can push to their usual locations again, without being spotted.

30 and 45s? really? i would put that delay before every take off, like you have to bloody reload after every shot

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 1 Minute, ApolloF117 sagte:

30 and 45s? really? i would put that delay before every take off, like you have to bloody reload after every shot

suuuuuuuuuuure....

[kingzy2013]

4 minutes ago, ApolloF117 said:

30 and 45s? really? i would put that delay before every take off, like you have to bloody reload after every shot

 A cooldown for each individual squad isn't a bad idea. stops a certain CV spamming dive bombers every single time. 

 

but the CV community will simply say, okay cooldown on planes - now lets introduce ammo amounts. it regenerates over time, but you only have a certain amount at the start of a game. "cant be wasteful with planes, cant be wasteful with ammo" 

[Asakka]

5 minutes ago, ApolloF117 said:

30 and 45s? really? i would put that delay before every take off, like you have to bloody reload after every shot

Sure, but give me jets then so i am fast as the shells :)

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 4 Minuten, kingzy2013 sagte:

 A cooldown for each individual squad isn't a bad idea. stops a certain CV spamming dive bombers every single time. 

 

but the CV community will simply say, okay cooldown on planes - now lets introduce ammo amounts. it regenerates over time, but you only have a certain amount at the start of a game. "cant be wasteful with planes, cant be wasteful with ammo" 

Now i want to then be able to drop all bombs at once instead of attack runs to pay me back for my wasted time.

[Cambera_1]

2 hours ago, ApolloF117 said:

30 and 45s? really? i would put that delay before every take off, like you have to bloody reload after every shot

Yes, fine, but then treble the Alpha Damage on each strike. If reload is of Battleship proportion then the Alpha needs to be.

Oh and for the similarity, prevent AA from downing any aircraft - Or allow AA to shoot down any shell bigger than 8".

 

The issue of the OP is that the AA of a number of DDs is just about non-existent, particularly RN and French DDs.  The mid war rebuilds of these destroyers with much better AA is missing from the game. Add these builds as an option would make these ships easier in the current meta.

(This would assist the second poster as these rebuilds were often at the expense of torpedos. So for BBs less torpedos to dodge!)

[illy]

45 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Good points, but one difference is the DDs inability to even contribute to the match when doing as you suggest.

Their weapons lack the range and they cant perform their designed function of spotting.

 

Imagine the first flame thrower hit permanently disables all your BB turrets and secondaries + keep you permaspotted.

Fun and engaging game huh?

let the CV spot, if you wander off alone in any kind of ship you'll get focused by decent CV players and they will kill you, sometimes a bit of patience can work wonders instead of rushing around in the first 5 minutes, CVs are infuriating but they are here to stay

[veslingr]

As not a DD player I think imaginary stat aka stealth must be removed from game

[ApolloF117]

12 minutes ago, kingzy2013 said:

but the CV community will simply say, okay cooldown on planes - now lets introduce ammo amounts. it regenerates over time, but you only have a certain amount at the start of a game. "cant be wasteful with planes, cant be wasteful with ammo" 

wonder how much ammo could a battleship/cruiser/dd could carry, compared how much plane could the largest aircraft carrier carry....

 

13 minutes ago, Asakka said:

Sure, but give me jets then so i am fast as the shells :)

you can have all the jets you want, and while they try to take off from these carriers, they would just land right in the water xD
you know that jets needs lot of room to take off, thats why the modern ones have catapults that can help them take off, or like russian ones with a big ramp at the end :P

if you don't like the idea of making something to wait for its ok, wg will defietly going to nerf them cos this ain't going to stay like this im pretty sure...

 

11 minutes ago, Cambera_1 said:

Yes, fine, but then treble the Alpha Damage on each strike. If reload is of Battleship proportion then the Alpha needs to be.

allready geting hit by db with 20k dmgs, and thats just 3 of them, soooo ehh? or give as much rng to bombers like german battleship guns have?

[Cambera_1]

11 minutes ago, ApolloF117 said:

allready geting hit by db with 20k dmgs, and thats just 3 of them, soooo ehh? or give as much rng to bombers like german battleship guns have?

GK with 406mm guns, that is 4 turrets with 3 barrels each so a salvo is 12 406mm shells each with a damage value of 12,700 DP.

By my figuring then the GK can hit with an Alpha strike of 152,400 DP every 29 seconds.

 

The Midway can drop bombs that do 11,200 and a strike drops 6 at a time, for a max of 67,200. Which I'll admit is a lot but not many players will be able to do a drop every 29 seconds. But then my Des Moines hits with an Alpha strike of 45,000 every 5.5 seconds, that puts the Midway's Dive bombers 67,200 into context. It isn't of Battleship proportions by a tiny amount.

 

For context - The Furious (RN T6 CV) - main weapon torpedo, each maxing 5200DP, 3 torpedoes a drop for a maximum of 15,600. A Bayern (KM T6 BB) strikes with an alpha of 87,200DP every 30 seconds. My Leander has an Alpha strike of 24,000 DP every 7.5 seconds.

 

I hope that you can see that the Alpha's of CVs are nowhere near that of Battleships and are in actual fact much nearer that of a cruiser without the speed of reload.

[veslingr]

46 minutes ago, ApolloF117 said:

wonder how much ammo could a battleship/cruiser/dd could carry, compared how much plane could the largest aircraft carrier carry....

 

you can have all the jets you want, and while they try to take off from these carriers, they would just land right in the water xD
you know that jets needs lot of room to take off, thats why the modern ones have catapults that can help them take off, or like russian ones with a big ramp at the end :P

if you don't like the idea of making something to wait for its ok, wg will defietly going to nerf them cos this ain't going to stay like this im pretty sure...

 

allready geting hit by db with 20k dmgs, and thats just 3 of them, soooo ehh? or give as much rng to bombers like german battleship guns have?

Dd in reality carried 1 or 2 sets of torpedoes. Good idea. Let's implement that in game. 

[ApolloF117]

7 minutes ago, Cambera_1 said:

GK with 406mm guns, that is 4 turrets with 3 barrels each so a salvo is 12 406mm shells each with a damage value of 12,700 DP.

By my figuring then the GK can hit with an Alpha strike of 152,400 DP every 29 seconds

Just a side question , how often you hit every 12 shell from a gk on a ship , lets not even talk about citadel hits because those ar some miracles xd

[DFens_666]

10 minutes ago, Cambera_1 said:

I hope that you can see that the Alpha's of CVs are nowhere near that of Battleships and are in actual fact much nearer that of a cruiser without the speed of reload.

 

Yet, CV average damage is most of the time even above most if not all BBs tier for tier.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 1 Minute, ApolloF117 sagte:

Just a side question , how often you hit every 12 shell from a gk on a ship , lets not even talk about citadel hits because those ar some miracles xd

How often do you hit all torps, all rockets and bombs of an attack run in a CV?