Jump to content
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
sgtmarple

CVs are not the problem in Mid Tier, bad DDs are

51 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[NWP]
Players
5,120 posts
6,587 battles
Just now, NothingButTheRain said:

I finished my Iowa grind and this DD problem exists in higher tiers as well I can assure you.

 

Many DD players are simply poor players making poor decisions. And complaining and b1tching in chat! Even after I deleted a broadside DM the dead DD complained about that DM having killed him before.

 

Not playing for the objectives and not being punished hard enough for their mistakes. They don't care as much anymore about actually using their conceilment, they go gunboat in the open because they don't get punished enough for doing so anymore (partially because of BB AP pen nerf and poor accuracy of either BB shell). 

 

If you switch DD to BB, you get the same result :Smile_sceptic:

The least idiot proof class are cruisers - thats why you rarely see one of them being total mongs imo. I guess halfway through Cruiser grind, they either become DD or BB player. If that doesnt work, they become CV player :Smile_trollface:

  • Funny 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
3,459 posts
8,132 battles
2 hours ago, Cyclops_ said:

Can i just leave this here.

 

0F2F65EE-BD64-46C2-A155-E6D1E9C4EEF9.thumb.jpeg.d45ec32489025cb5c8e7415245eefb88.jpeg

 

dd-bingo2.png.e5cf15f120b7623de84691856a

This seems awefully familiar. Some of these things have actually been made a reality like the conceilment nerf, torp spotting, AP nerf and carrier nerfs vs DDs.

  • Funny 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
3,459 posts
8,132 battles
1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

 

If you switch DD to BB, you get the same result :Smile_sceptic:

The least idiot proof class are cruisers - thats why you rarely see one of them being total mongs imo. I guess halfway through Cruiser grind, they either become DD or BB player. If that doesnt work, they become CV player :Smile_trollface:

I think it's actually BB that is least idiot proof. But it's harder to excell in BB as well, unlike DD. Cruisers are easier to punish (except maybe French cruisers which seem to give mostly overpens lol) and BBs are usually hard to citadel and have more effective healing.

But DDs are getting there, there's even an entire DD yolo tech tree line coming soon tm.

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[NKK]
Beta Tester
688 posts
6,995 battles
4 hours ago, Inked9 said:

Hmmmmm,Trying a bit more DD play before you complain about how bad DD's are. There been plenty of matches were the CV's have from 1 to 5 ships ( CA's and BB's) covering them and not supporting the rest of the fleet that trying to make cap  or trying to sink something. Something more than just farming damage or just spotting for others to get the glory at the expense of those who have moved forward, not just the DD's but also the few CA's that try to support their DD's.

So? Just because he hasn't played much DD doesn't mean that what he says is true. Can I talk? cause I have quite a bit of DD games on my shoulders, and you know, I'm usually the last one of the team to go down, cause I know how important DDs are. First you have to stay alive, cause you are the spotter, without CV games there isn't anyone else, and with CVs, well, he can't stay everywhere, so yeah, stay alive and spot. The rest will take care of itself.

But hey, let's blame the CVs for poor gameplay. DD sails alone into a cap and gets killed early? Team makes lemming train leaving the flank exposed? BBs stay way back not supporting the DDs and CAs trying to contest the caps? All the fault of the CVs, even when CVs weren't there. Before the CV rework we had the exact same problems. Bad players.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[OGHF]
Players
783 posts
12,882 battles
3 hours ago, Saltface said:

If you’re the captain of a ship, you skipper it, and if you’re the helmsman, you steer or helm it. Also note that Captains command a ship, Skippers are the second in command. A Helmsman actually is on the helm setting the vessel on the course ordered by the Officer of the Watch.

 

A ship is not driven.

 

You sail a ship (as you correctly noted) if it has sails;

You run a ship (but only aground). You can also run a sailboat downwind, but not upwind (that'd be beating) or sideways to the wind (reaching). 

You can also pilot it. To pilot (the verb) has also acquired a specialized modern sense to lead a ship through a difficult or dangerous area of water and pilot (the noun) now generally means such a specialist. But the general sense of steering a ship is still in use today, just as it was in the 19c and 20c. 

In case of a boat you can say either row or propel. You can also paddle a boat.

 

Regards

Saltface

Ok,

In NAVAL Parlance.

The Captain Drives the Ship, so the ship is Driven by what the Captain wants the ship and crew to do.

The Captain is also known as the Skipper.

The second in command is the First Lieutenant also called The Jimmy.

The Helmsman Steers the Ship under the Captains orders.

A Boat is a Submarine.

 

Hope this puts the matter straight ;-)

 

Regards,

               Cyclops (ex RN)

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[NWP]
Players
5,120 posts
6,587 battles
26 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

I think it's actually BB that is least idiot proof. But it's harder to excell in BB as well, unlike DD. Cruisers are easier to punish (except maybe French cruisers which seem to give mostly overpens lol) and BBs are usually hard to citadel and have more effective healing.

 

Depends how you conclude doing well in BBs? If you look at PR f.e. then its definetely because you cant fail as easy as with other classes. You need extraordinary results in a BB to get Unicum PR. Thats because, most people achieve something, even if they suck, which raises the bar.

As for having an impact on the game, well depends id say. I think its also because most people simply suck, and dont know how to play BBs properly. Moving 5 BBs into one square on the minimap -> no wonder you cant have any influence, even if one player would be smart, the other 4 are ruining it for him. Atleast thats how i felt a couple of times lately. I try to get crossfire, but my team is just lemmingtraining behind me :Smile_sceptic:

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
97 posts
241 battles
3 hours ago, Saltface said:

Oh !! No CV. Goody goody. Now I can play free from the continuous spotting.

- Let's rush the cap...ohhh my...how long I haven't rushed a cap.

- Yes...I'm capping.

- Oh darn, I m radared....

- oops...what are these bubbles?

This is rather important for most DD players to read - I'm trying to get into the habit of saying to myself "don't forget the bloody radar" on the rare occasions I get a CV-free game, as the whole "woohoo - no CV!" enthusiasm has got me sunk a couple of times already...

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[NOCAP]
[NOCAP]
Players
98 posts
4,519 battles
Vor 44 Minuten, NothingButTheRain sagte:

Many  DD players are simply poor players making poor decisions. And complaining and b1tching in chat! Even after I deleted a broadside DM the dead DD complained about that DM having killed him before.

 

Not playing for the objectives and not being punished hard enough for their mistakes. They don't care as much anymore about actually using their conceilment, they go gunboat in the open because they don't get punished enough for doing so anymore (partially because of BB AP pen nerf and poor accuracy of either BB shell).

There might be bad dd players, but when they make poor decisions, they get killed and learn from it. When playing your bb poorly on the map border you don’t get punished and some keep doing so thousands of games. BB shells have great accuracy if you don’t are very far away, and overpens still do really much dmg. But getting close or having to change ammunition like any other class in the game doesn’t seem to be your thing. Imagine a bug wrong ammunition (HE this time) citadelling bbs, it would be changed instantly (not on Conqueror though ^^Khaba Haru)

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[OGHF]
Players
783 posts
12,882 battles
13 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Depends how you conclude doing well in BBs? If you look at PR f.e. then its definetely because you cant fail as easy as with other classes. You need extraordinary results in a BB to get Unicum PR. Thats because, most people achieve something, even if they suck, which raises the bar.

As for having an impact on the game, well depends id say. I think its also because most people simply suck, and dont know how to play BBs properly. Moving 5 BBs into one square on the minimap -> no wonder you cant have any influence, even if one player would be smart, the other 4 are ruining it for him. Atleast thats how i felt a couple of times lately. I try to get crossfire, but my team is just lemmingtraining behind me :Smile_sceptic:

I love blobs of BB in T10 games, 20k torps on the Shima dents them good and proper and then they run in panic to be picked off by the CV :Smile_glasses:

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
37 posts
2,259 battles

DDs are strongest class till tier 7. Tiers 8-10 BBs are stronger class. Just play high tier BBs, if you don't want to rely on DDs. But then, there's always room to complain about bad players, bad high tier BBs will screw your game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
97 posts
241 battles
25 minutes ago, Cyclops_ said:

I love blobs of BB in T10 games, 20k torps on the Shima dents them good and proper and then they run in panic to be picked off by the CV :Smile_glasses:

This reminds me: I wanted to ask - do people feel that the current meta has made the 20 km torps on Shima a viable choice?

 

I've been avoiding playing all my IJN torp boats (unless you count Harekaze), but was wondering about giving Shima a run-out with the ludicrous torps...?

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PN]
Players
572 posts
4,192 battles
1 hour ago, Cyclops_ said:

Ok,

In NAVAL Parlance.

The Captain Drives the Ship, so the ship is Driven by what the Captain wants the ship and crew to do.

The Captain is also known as the Skipper.

The second in command is the First Lieutenant also called The Jimmy.

The Helmsman Steers the Ship under the Captains orders.

A Boat is a Submarine.

 

Hope this puts the matter straight ;-)

 

Regards,

               Cyclops (ex RN)

There is no reason to debate this one.

I will admit English is not my mother tongue so you do take precedence Sir.

But, we had to learn the naval parlance under whip.

 

Regards

Saltface (HN ret. class 1983)

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[OGHF]
Players
783 posts
12,882 battles
7 minutes ago, Saltface said:

There is no reason to debate this one.

I will admit English is not my mother tongue so you do take precedence Sir.

But, we had to learn the naval parlance under whip.

 

Regards

Saltface (HN ret. class 1983)

No problem fella, take care and have a nice weekend :Smile_glasses:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[OGHF]
Players
783 posts
12,882 battles
52 minutes ago, Norris_of_Quirm said:

This reminds me: I wanted to ask - do people feel that the current meta has made the 20 km torps on Shima a viable choice?

 

I've been avoiding playing all my IJN torp boats (unless you count Harekaze), but was wondering about giving Shima a run-out with the ludicrous torps...?

 

It is ok with 20k torps just so long as you look for blobs identified by your CV, even if they see them coming and scatter, this allows your CV to attack them a bit easier.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
97 posts
241 battles
27 minutes ago, Cyclops_ said:

 

It is ok with 20k torps just so long as you look for blobs identified by your CV, even if they see them coming and scatter, this allows your CV to attack them a bit easier.

Thanks! I'll have a try this weekend, and see how it goes.

BTW what's the current thinking on captain skills for Shima these days? Pre-rework, I would have gone pretty much entirely towards a 'torp' build (well, duh!), but was idly wondering about maybe taking BFT as one of the later/last picks...?

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BNI]
Beta Tester
265 posts
16 hours ago, sgtmarple said:

Yes, DDs get killed in the first 5 Minutes without CVs....wonder what excuse they have this time.

 

They blame the Team for not giving enough suport ? :cap_cool:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
39 posts
17 hours ago, sgtmarple said:

Just scout, seriously, please stay alive and give us targets, don't rush to the Thunderdome like freaking lemmings!

Any we , the destroyer players get what for that ?
NOTHING !
some 10 % xp maybe !
Sorry , as long as it is not profitable for DD's to do something , we will not do it !
And nobody bothers to shoot anything , even if we , the dd players , spot something !
That , and lets be honest here , DD as a spoter is a bad bad idea !
Cv's should spot , coz they are good in it !

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[_DIB_]
[_DIB_]
Players
116 posts
10,853 battles
2 hours ago, valrond said:

So? Just because he hasn't played much DD doesn't mean that what he says is true. Can I talk? cause I have quite a bit of DD games on my shoulders, and you know, I'm usually the last one of the team to go down, cause I know how important DDs are. First you have to stay alive, cause you are the spotter, without CV games there isn't anyone else, and with CVs, well, he can't stay everywhere, so yeah, stay alive and spot. The rest will take care of itself.

But hey, let's blame the CVs for poor gameplay. DD sails alone into a cap and gets killed early? Team makes lemming train leaving the flank exposed? BBs stay way back not supporting the DDs and CAs trying to contest the caps? All the fault of the CVs, even when CVs weren't there. Before the CV rework we had the exact same problems. Bad players.

Ja, you can talk, and yes you have done a few DD games. I have done a little also on the DD side.

Each class has it bad players everyone knows this. Some tiers are more than others.  I wasn't referring to sgtmarple as a bad CV or BB player. Just play more DD in its role.

Ja, I agree spotting is important and as the other functions a DD has to do. If your division up with other players that will support and not stagnate behind makes it easier. If not them is much harder. And in most set played on random is chef surprise, you get what you get and out of 20 set played you have maybe 3 games that went the way its suppose to. All of it depends if its a weekend, mm, etc.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
3,459 posts
8,132 battles
3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Depends how you conclude doing well in BBs? If you look at PR f.e. then its definetely because you cant fail as easy as with other classes. You need extraordinary results in a BB to get Unicum PR. Thats because, most people achieve something, even if they suck, which raises the bar.

As for having an impact on the game, well depends id say. I think its also because most people simply suck, and dont know how to play BBs properly. Moving 5 BBs into one square on the minimap -> no wonder you cant have any influence, even if one player would be smart, the other 4 are ruining it for him. Atleast thats how i felt a couple of times lately. I try to get crossfire, but my team is just lemmingtraining behind me :Smile_sceptic:

This is just so annoying! And when I try to dodge incoming shells, I can't, because they keep sailing next to me, mirroring my every move. They probably assume I'm enjoying it as much as they are! :Smile_hiding:

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
3,459 posts
8,132 battles
3 hours ago, semiGM said:

There might be bad dd players, but when they make poor decisions, they get killed and learn from it. When playing your bb poorly on the map border you don’t get punished and some keep doing so thousands of games. BB shells have great accuracy if you don’t are very far away, and overpens still do really much dmg. But getting close or having to change ammunition like any other class in the game doesn’t seem to be your thing. Imagine a bug wrong ammunition (HE this time) citadelling bbs, it would be changed instantly (not on Conqueror though ^^Khaba Haru)

This is quite an assumption, as this will not always be the case. Plenty of 1000 games_in_shima_with_<50%_winrate DD mains out there who never seem to improve when their favorites are not buffed directly :Smile-_tongue:

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-SBF-]
[-SBF-]
Alpha Tester, Players, In AlfaTesters
383 posts
10,710 battles
8 hours ago, Procrastes said:

This pretty much sums it up, yeah.

 

Is this scenario perhaps familiar?

 

The battle starts and you strike out in your destroyer, heading for the nearest cap. There's a carrier on each team, but as luck will have it the enemy carrier decides to focus on another sector, allowing you some quality time with empty airspace. As you near the cap, you spot several incoming cruisers and battleships, and shells start flying from both sides.

 

You enter the cap, but almost immediately bump into an enemy destroyer. You hit the smoke button, open fire with both guns and torpedo tubes, and start turning away. Suddenly one of the enemy cruisers lands five hits on you, taking off more than half your health and wrecking you engine. You hit the repair button, duck back into smoke and then immediately dash out on the other side to avoid the inevitable torpedo waves. You hear a gratifying BOOM! as one of your torpedoes hits something, but you're too busy to check out what.

 

As you round an island the enemy destroyer comes into view again. After a brief, frantic gunnery duel you sink him, but you take even more damage doing this and his last hit starts a fire. It burns merrily on as you duck and weave to avoid the shells from the enemy ships - holy cow, but there are a lot of them! - and then your repair comes off cooldown and you put the fire out. A quick look around reveals that you are now alone in the cap, with four enemy ships closing fast. You pop smoke and immediately feel like an utter noob as they fade from view - jumpin' Jiminy, but ain't someone else out there spotting anything...?! You have no choice but to leave smoke cover - only to find a whole squadron of enemy rocket planes circling above.

 

You hear the noise of thunder.

 

Your ship's soul shakes off her mortal coil and rises above the turmoil of war. You look around, and you see...

 

...you see two enemy battleships and two cruisers pushing into the cap, passing close by what was lately your ship.

...you see three allied battleships, on almost full health, heading away from the cap and going straight for the map border.

...you hear the farthest of them cry out, in a loud voice, "I need intelligence...!!!"

 

You know he's right, and you search for words of comfort. But before you can type them in chat, the battle ends as the enemy team wins on points.

Do a search for 'map awareness' and become a better DD player

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-FC-]
Players
296 posts
9,936 battles
21 hours ago, sgtmarple said:

Jesus Christ do I hate being in a BB without a CV Teammate.

 

Don't mean to be rude, but maybe you're just not a very good BB player, yet?  You seem to have a 35% WR in your BBs, so you clearly aren't managing to predict where the obvious torps are coming from.  Don't blame the DDs, just try thinking about the game and reading the minimap a little more.  The game isn't just whack-a-mole, you get credit for thinking about targets that you and your teammates CAN'T see.  Just a thought.  GL buddy.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PARAZ]
Beta Tester
9,478 posts
15,167 battles
Quote

Clearly the rework that are desperately needed was not reworking the carrier, but it's reworking the playerbase.

- Yuro 2019

:Smile_trollface:

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×