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n0tmad

Any tipps to get fun as DD ?

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Well i play last times much dd and i noticed i totaly suck at it. All this Radar and Cws makes it almost impossible to to play as it is supposed to play (scouting supporting torping capping)

i get radared from 11.5km with a z52 with legendary module and fully skilled captain. no way to escape even with smoke every shell hits me and sunks me even by dogdeing shells. when i shoot on dds from 15km or more i never hit or barely hit with less damage but when im a dd al make perfect hits no way to dogde at all only way to surive is to hide behind a rock but mostly comes a rocket planes and kill me behind the rock with my 1k health left even in smoke. i only surive when i play  13km aways from any ship. even then sometimes it happens that i run in a dd which opens me and his teammates sunks me.

 

so my question how should i play as dd ? should i stay hole game in a group of teammates which supports me ? i tryed even that and when i got 2 cws in a game even that wont help.

 

i play since beta but this hard to play as dd it was never. its absolute no fun.your always target no1. for planes and ships. i also noticed since some month in the night times are always Pro players which got a 100% hit rate on dds. the next thing to torpedo ships is also very hard looks like allmost all ships instant change direction on torpedo drop and on my z52 i got it under 1 min. so when im totaly lucky and survice 1 from 10 matches imagine how many torps i drop and how many misses. i calculate even speed change and direction change in my drops. to make it short its absolutly hard to play as dd and makes no fun at all-

 

maybe i should stay better on bbs and cvs.

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Wargaming almost killed off DD’s with the totally botched cvs rework, and as you know; DD players will also be aware of the very brave cruiser players with radar that hide behind an island, making stealth utterly pointless, e.g my Lightning has a 5.5km detection range the torps only go 8km, what do WG do; the rework and give us the Alaska another BIG radar cruiser ( 10km detection), any wonder DD players moan and don’t bother playing ?,   Wargaming attempt at fixing the mess they created is as bad as the rework itself, cvs hide, don’t cap, and can’t provide smoke cover but they can send countless planes time after time, which kills the game totally, example; you’re in a bb, cruiser or DD and you face the same type of ship (1vs1), Edited* turn up, the sqns killed 10 seconds later another son turns up, and yet what do WG do: oh we’ll put a delay on Cvs, which will now mean planes will now head straight for the cap, like they do know.    Cvs are Sucking the life and fun out of the game and wot did WG do; buy a premium Cv😂.

 

in answer to the question; go with the blob, and take hits from disgruntled team mates because you’re not capping or spotting😉.

 

Go play world of war planes because wows cv drivers apparently can’t ( too hard/fast).

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2 hours ago, n0tmad said:

 

so my question how should i play as dd ? should i stay hole game in a group of teammates which supports me ? i tryed even that and when i got 2 cws in a game even that wont help.

 

  • Careful
  • Look were you are going, sailing straight without minding your surroundings gets you killed
  • Practice evasion, getting killed at 11.5 km during one RU radar is bad, you must be able to survive one full Des Moines radar at 9km with at least 2 ships shooting at you
  • when you can evade, you can activly try to bait radar, which in turn can allow you to cap undisturbed
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On 5/9/2019 at 6:57 AM, ColonelPete said:
  • Careful
  • Look were you are going, sailing straight without minding your surroundings gets you killed
  • Practice evasion, getting killed at 11.5 km during one RU radar is bad, you must be able to survive one full Des Moines radar at 9km with at least 2 ships shooting at you
  • when you can evade, you can activly try to bait radar, which in turn can allow you to cap undisturbed

Ship evasion is easy; get that arse waggling, depending on the DD, evading shots from 4+ ships is simple but edited is a different matter.

 

The key thing to remember is if they’re firing at you they ain’t firing at anybody else 😉.

 

my latest trick when lower tiered is to wind up the cv driver; yes you end up sunk, eventually, but every time I’ve done it the team’s won.

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[PK11]
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Vor 2 Stunden, eliastion sagte:

It's really hard to give you any relevant advice without knowing your approximate skill level. Still, let me provide you with some general pointers:

 

PROBLEMS WITH CVs:

1. The CVs need to find you first. In this case two things work tremendously in your favor and one against you:

 - planes are extremely visible with the exception of IJN torpedo bombers (that can't hurt you if you maneuver right). You're going to see them coming from far away

 - playing a DD against planes is like having an invisibility cheat - they need to be almost right above you to spot you. This is a really stupid idea of WG (they did that instead of removing the third factor that works against DDs) but it makes both finding a DD really hard, as long as the AA is off

 - (this hurts and this is what should've been addressed instead of giving DDs ridiculously low air detection) planes know that they are spotted so a CV player with half a brain can easily realize that SOMETHING (presumably a DD) is in the area - this makes it difficult to relly operate solo because the CV doesn't have to spot you to realize you're around... which may prompt a scouting sweep of the area if there are no other ships

2. You don't really need to be behind friendly ships or right next to them to benefit from their AA. You can be ahead and just retreat towards them as need arises. How far ahead you need to be depends on your ship, the friendly ships and overall situation. Also remember that after attacking you, the planes often end up on the other side of you... and if they attack from the front and there are a couple allies behind you? Well, there won't be a second strike from THAT squadron...

3. CVs can reach you anywhere on the map but they don't teleport. Even the fastest planes take quite some time to cross the map - if you see the enemy CV working on the other end of the map, then he won't get to you instantaneously. He'll need to either fly to you the planes you saw or go back and start a new squadron. What's more, CVs don't really like too fly huge distances - a sensible CV stays as close to the allies as he believes he can get away with AND focuses his attention mostly on the same flank. This happens because time spent flying to target is time spent doing nothing productive. CVs avoid flying their planes to the opposite edge of the map unless they have a really good reason to do so (note that someone attempting a cap with no support might be seen as just such a reason)

4. CVs don't spend their day looking for DDs. They go searching for you when they have some idea as to where to find you AND some hope that this won't be in close proximity to some heavy AA platform. This includes the opening phase of the game - DDs going straight for the caps, far ahead of teammates that could provide AA cover, are both vulnerable and predictable. Don't do that. If you want to push a cap early, make sure you don't get too far ahead and can retreat towards them. Usually, however, it's just not worth it to attempt an early cap like this. Know where the Radars are, where the planes are active, that friendlies aren't too far - and THEN cap. DDs are still the best cappers, BY FAR, but they do so by pushing in just that bit closer that would be a fatal overextension for everyone else - but isn't for them. Ignoring your allied fleet and going to hunt/cap all on your own has a good chance of backfiring on you quickly in a match with CVs

5. Learn to manage your AA. Even DDs (at least the high tier ones) don't need THAT much time to dispatch fighters and setting up your priority sectors right makes it much faster still. And then there are the DDs that actually enjoy good AA and can properly hurt the attacking squadrons as well. Again, priority secotrs are important for that. Plus, of course, there's the matter of switching AA off completely. I mentioned it when I talked about getting found - but it actually serves a purpose as defensive measure as well. Many squadrons (most notably rocket planes, the main anti-DD weapon of IJN and RN CVs) to deliver a good strike (or any strike at all) need to start their attack run from beyond your basic air concealment range. Which means that when they set up the attack, they might not see you at all (unless they are spotting you with fighters or somebody else spots you for them). If you manage your AA right and don't sail too predictably, you can make it much harder to land rockets on you. Ito doesn't work all that well against HE bombers, though - the USN ones don't need to start the attack run too far away and the RN ones, while not nearly as effective against DDs, allow quite a bit of adjustment during the attack run, making it less crucial to know the precise position of the target at the moment of starting the attack run.

 

PROBLEMS WITH RADARS:

Well, the reality is: you need to locate them and avoid them. Also, especially when you're not sure of their position, you should really avoid ever stopping in smoke. With Radars nearby, smoke doesn't conceal your position as much as reveals it - guess what a Radar cruiser is going to do when they notice a smoke cloud appearing within their Radar range... And, of course, when there's a cap covered by enemy Radar, you should probably give up on taking it at that time. There are some more advanced tricks where you can try and bait Radar by pretending that you want to cap - but they aren't that easy, you need to be pretty good at assessing the danger and judging by your post alone (since I can't see your stats) I doubt you are up to things like this for now.

 

 

As a final note: DDs aren't an easy class to play. They are faster than BBs and stealthier as well as harder to one-shot than cruisers but to be effective, they also need to get closer - and that amplifies the risks involved. And yes, on high tiers the abundance of Radars along with the fact that CVs are only endangered rather than extinct right now means that DDs are in an even trickier position. They can still be rewarding and the relatively low numbers of DDs actually serve the class well (every DD kill counts more for a DD-hunter DD, there are less DDs to prematurely spot torps) but striking the balance between the appropriate level of aggressiveness (to be a threat) and caution (to not die early in a dumb way) is harder than ever. Still, if you can do that, you'll see yourself having a lot of influence on the outcome of the battle.

Excellent advice.

Now can we please copy this reply and post it to any DD complain thread now and in the future?

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2 hours ago, eliastion said:

(this hurts and this is what should've been addressed instead of giving DDs ridiculously low air detection) planes know that they are spotted so a CV player with half a brain can easily realize that SOMETHING (presumably a DD) is in the area - this makes it difficult to relly operate solo because the CV doesn't have to spot you to realize you're around... which may prompt a scouting sweep of the area if there are no other ships

Wow, this is actually a thing I haven't thought of but it actually makes sense! Just like RPF was removed from planes and work on the CV so shall the detection off course and it treats planes more like shells rather than ships. 

 

3 hours ago, n0tmad said:

All this Radar and Cws makes it almost impossible to to play as it is supposed to play (scouting supporting torping capping)

i get radared from 11.5km with a z52 with legendary module and fully skilled captain. no way to escape even with smoke every shell hits me and sunks me even by dogdeing shells. when i shoot on dds from 15km or more i never hit or barely hit with less damage but when im a dd al make perfect hits no way to dogde at all only way to surive is to hide behind a rock but mostly comes a rocket planes and kill me behind the rock with my 1k health left even in smoke. i only surive when i play  13km aways from any ship. even then sometimes it happens that i run in a dd which opens me and his teammates sunks me.

It sounds like you have alot of games under your belt if you've gotten that legendary module but I would recommend that you look at for example Notsers videos and his builds for different destroyers, they are excellent for understanding the current meta. 

 

The reason for me saying this is that I consider Z46 a better torpedo boat than Z52 and maybe you need to change your playstyle and/or build to get more out of your ship, use it strengths. 

 

Maybe you shall try to play CV yourself to get into their mindset and see what other players are doing to avoid planes. Final tip for you is to play lower tier where there is no radar, T10 is not always best or most fun to play. I have heard the T-61 is a beloved DD for the Germans at T6, Nicholas is a great ship at T5 for smoking, capping and farm plane kills. 

 

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It looks like all have been said before so I can only add one thing.

If you are going to spot a DD be sure that your teammates will shoot it.

It looks like you are opening fire on enemy for no reason.

Would be nice if you would post reply, as it really looks like you have your AA always on.

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5 hours ago, n0tmad said:

 how should i play as dd ?

 

Like a port-queen that she is.

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5 hours ago, n0tmad said:

Well i play last times much dd and i noticed i totaly suck at it. All this Radar and Cws makes it almost impossible to to play as it is supposed to play (scouting supporting torping capping)

i get radared from 11.5km with a z52 with legendary module and fully skilled captain. no way to escape even with smoke every shell hits me and sunks me even by dogdeing shells. when i shoot on dds from 15km or more i never hit or barely hit with less damage but when im a dd al make perfect hits no way to dogde at all only way to surive is to hide behind a rock but mostly comes a rocket planes and kill me behind the rock with my 1k health left even in smoke. i only surive when i play  13km aways from any ship. even then sometimes it happens that i run in a dd which opens me and his teammates sunks me.

 

so my question how should i play as dd ? should i stay hole game in a group of teammates which supports me ? i tryed even that and when i got 2 cws in a game even that wont help.

 

i play since beta but this hard to play as dd it was never. its absolute no fun.your always target no1. for planes and ships. i also noticed since some month in the night times are always Pro players which got a 100% hit rate on dds. the next thing to torpedo ships is also very hard looks like allmost all ships instant change direction on torpedo drop and on my z52 i got it under 1 min. so when im totaly lucky and survice 1 from 10 matches imagine how many torps i drop and how many misses. i calculate even speed change and direction change in my drops. to make it short its absolutly hard to play as dd and makes no fun at all-

 

maybe i should stay better on bbs and cvs.

Dd is for players who wants challange and not fun. 

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I've found that the only way to have fun is playing the kebab. I dont give a sh1t about radars or cvs. The most people targeting you the better for the team. And the dakka build is (barely)antiAA as a bonus. 

 

But yeah, dds in the current meta are in a bad spot. Everybody knows that the kebab is not a dd, is a very light cruiser without citadel. 

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Don’t play DD, any CV with a tiny amount of skill will just crap on you. Same for cruisers though. BBs are in a somewhat decent spot due their big hp pool.

 

Just wait for the nerfs.

 

I did play a couple CV games and I must say that I found tier 1 more difficult.

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Play Tier VI and VII? CVs but nothing scary, some radars but not too many radars, some great ships to play. 

 

Also : forget solo YOLO play, at least until five minutes in. Supporting your fellow DD players is much more important. 

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6 hours ago, n0tmad said:

Well i play last times much dd and i noticed i totaly suck at it. ....

Go with eliastion's excellent tips. And as he already mentioned to look up your profile/stats would make it a lot easier to give you more detailed advice.

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bring a pet minotaur with you always, otherwise playing dd is pointless.

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Don't rush and don't die.

 

Alway look your minimap!

 

Use your guns only if you are spotted and if you are spotted (air, or surface) : USE your guns.

 

Alway have torps in the water! 

 

Smoke for objective and to evade if no radar ship in proxy.

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how about you drop down a few tiers and get more comfortable with the new CV meta there? There are some very good, well rounded "practice" ships at T6 for example (looking at you T-61 and Shinonome), and the environment is a lot less deadly (Ranger instead of Midway, not a lot of radar unless you end up in a T8 match, much lower firepower on most cruisers etc) - so you can get to grips with this brave new world we live in nowadays without getting shat on as hard as you do at top tier.

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What @eliastion said sums it up perfectly. 

 

Also Tyrendian is also right. Learn in the lower tiers. Being a DD now is just... rough. Even I've left them in port far more than I ever thought I would have. And what i can do in CV's now? I feel bad for Every DD that I wipe away with ease. Not the BB's however. I'll farm those :etc_swear:'s for all eternity. With pure joy and passion.

6 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

how about you drop down a few tiers and get more comfortable with the new CV meta there? There are some very good, well rounded "practice" ships at T6 for example (looking at you T-61 and Shinonome), and the environment is a lot less deadly (Ranger instead of Midway, not a lot of radar unless you end up in a T8 match, much lower firepower on most cruisers etc) - so you can get to grips with this brave new world we live in nowadays without getting shat on as hard as you do at top tier.

 

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Just play carefully and don't force yourself into risky situations. Sometimes it's a better decision to sit still and let the enemy take the objective and to retake it later when they moved on or it is less guarded.

If you are in a CV game don't go to the middle and don't just go your usual routes but take different paths. It's better to arrive to your destination late then dead.

 

And remember not to blame the circumstances around you for you dying or losing. Those are excuses that won't help you to improve.

Try to criticise yourself and find a way to do it better next game.

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Play Asashio.

  • 5.4 km concealment is Tier-V-level stealth on a tier where almost everything else is a lot less stealthy, which is great for the situations where you're not running into radar ships or planes. You do also get this, and most other features, with the Kagero, which is free. But its 10 km torpedo range puts you into enemy radar range and out of friendly AA blobs far more often. Also, Kagero makes you choose between smoke or torpedo reload booster, and that just sucks. Asashio always has both.
  • Super stealthy deep water torpedoes with 20 km range let you sit way back for when there is the risk of running into radar ships or planes. They take almost two minutes to reload, which time you can spend leisurely trundling into position on half speed within your cruisers' AA gun range.
  • Torpedo reload booster means you can vomit a 16-torp wall of skill about every four minutes or so, punctuated by an 8-torp "half wall" at half-time through the reload cycle.
  • Super deep-water torps are perfect for sucking the fun out of the game only for the groups least negatively affected by the fun-sucking carrier "rework" - BBs and CVs. Asashio probably means "Vampire" in Japanese. Or it should, at any rate. Other than random course changes, victims have almost no counterplay. When they finally do spot the torps, they are usually far too close to dodge. Picturing their "Oh CRAP!" faces when the "ching ching ching ching" of torpedo hits goes off is just hi-la-ri-ous. It's the high tier version of torpedo-soup sealclubbing with pre-rework Derzki. This is in no way sabotaging Random Battles, you're simply playing it as intended.
  • You can give victims even less reaction time by using the torpedo acceleration commander skill, which is hilarious in its own right. But I don't recommend it, because having the full 20 km range increases your chances to hit aicraft carriers, which are often sitting still way back in the open, or sail away from you. Their concealment "blooms" when planes land or take off, like surface ships firing their main guns. You don't hit them as often as you'd like, but when it happens, it's great.
  • Also the guns are really accurate and hard-hitting, with a good fire chance. They still turn and reload slowly, so you need to basically use them a bit like BB guns. But the alpha and fire damage really rips the suckers up. And let's face it, being gunned down by a Japanese torpedo boat is about the worst humiliation there is in this game.
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8 hours ago, n0tmad said:

Well i play last times much dd and i noticed i totaly suck at it. All this Radar and Cws makes it almost impossible to to play as it is supposed to play (scouting supporting torping capping)

i get radared from 11.5km with a z52 with legendary module and fully skilled captain. no way to escape even with smoke every shell hits me and sunks me even by dogdeing shells. when i shoot on dds from 15km or more i never hit or barely hit with less damage but when im a dd al make perfect hits no way to dogde at all only way to surive is to hide behind a rock but mostly comes a rocket planes and kill me behind the rock with my 1k health left even in smoke. i only surive when i play  13km aways from any ship. even then sometimes it happens that i run in a dd which opens me and his teammates sunks me.

 

so my question how should i play as dd ? should i stay hole game in a group of teammates which supports me ? i tryed even that and when i got 2 cws in a game even that wont help.

 

i play since beta but this hard to play as dd it was never. its absolute no fun.your always target no1. for planes and ships. i also noticed since some month in the night times are always Pro players which got a 100% hit rate on dds. the next thing to torpedo ships is also very hard looks like allmost all ships instant change direction on torpedo drop and on my z52 i got it under 1 min. so when im totaly lucky and survice 1 from 10 matches imagine how many torps i drop and how many misses. i calculate even speed change and direction change in my drops. to make it short its absolutly hard to play as dd and makes no fun at all-

 

maybe i should stay better on bbs and cvs.

Or cruiser.

 

If one class doesn't suit you, instead of staying on the loosing team, simply switch to another class.

 

I play all classes and as you claim to be a beta player you know very well how meta changes and shifts with new releases, so I'm surprised you haven't leared to adapt to this yet.

 

And did you really grind all the way to tier 10 and only start noticing the radar ships and your crappy performance just now? :Smile_amazed:

Quote

i also noticed since some month in the night times are always Pro players which got a 100% hit rate on dds

If you suspect someone is using illegal 3rd party aim assists, you should contact customer support, explain your situation and send in a replay so they can deal with this issue.

We as normal forum plebs have no power here.

 

And it doesn't surprise me with just 13 battles...err ow those are your post count, you hid your stats so you might as well be another troll in a long line of relatively easy to spot trolls.

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On 5/9/2019 at 7:26 AM, MadBadDave said:

Ship evasion is easy; get that arse waggling, depending on the DD, evading shots from 4+ ships is simple but edited is a different matter.

 

The key thing to remember is if they’re firing at you they ain’t firing at anybody else 😉.

 

my latest trick when lower tiered is to wind up the cv driver; yes you end up sunk, eventually, but every time I’ve done it the team’s won.

Sounds like fun, the really good DD players will sin the CV's and top whack to those that do.

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7 hours ago, eliastion said:

It's really hard to give you any relevant advice without knowing your approximate skill level. Still, let me provide you with some general pointers:

 

PROBLEMS WITH CVs:

1. The CVs need to find you first. In this case two things work tremendously in your favor and one against you:

 - planes are extremely visible with the exception of IJN torpedo bombers (that can't hurt you if you maneuver right). You're going to see them coming from far away

 - playing a DD against planes is like having an invisibility cheat - they need to be almost right above you to spot you. This is a really stupid idea of WG (they did that instead of removing the third factor that works against DDs) but it makes both finding a DD really hard, as long as the AA is off

 - (this hurts and this is what should've been addressed instead of giving DDs ridiculously low air detection) planes know that they are spotted so a CV player with half a brain can easily realize that SOMETHING (presumably a DD) is in the area - this makes it difficult to relly operate solo because the CV doesn't have to spot you to realize you're around... which may prompt a scouting sweep of the area if there are no other ships

Excellent post, but I wonder how this is unique to carriers if all ships can use this info as they also will know they are spotted and skilled players can even know when the DD launches torps at him without the DD ever having been spotted.

And also surface ships have a skill that carriers don't, Radio Location, which also gives an approximate idea of where the DD is.

So it's not like this CV thing you are telling about is so unique to carrier, it is not.

It is different of course. And the skill to know when you are spotted is baked into all avatars (it's what WG called it) of wows, it's just a wows trait.

 

This I did want to point out, but other than that, excellent writing :Smile_great:

 

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