Ramming physics wtf?

[Chibana]

I was playing with König german battleship, and I had 95% hp with it, when a japanese BB tried to ram into me. I turned right to avoid it, then he turned left and rammed into me with a poor 15-20% angle, what is supposed to be scratching my side in reality. What has happened? My almost full hp battleship got instantly destroyed by a poorly angled ramming! WTF is it??? Is it bug or it is supposed to be in this game???

I am not a very experienced player here, but it seems a very poorly programmed physics. I would understand if I would be with destroyer or cruiser and then a much heavier ship rams into me okay, but when a basically lighter BB rams into me with very poor angle when I am with a heavier and more armored BB, then it is totally bullsh*t. What is next, a DD rams into my BB wiht 90% angle and my BB gets sliced into 2 halfs and the DD continues his travel like nothing has happaned?

[___V_E_N_O_M___]

yeh I always found it dumb that two ships ramming eachother leads to insta-detonations.

[howardxu_23]

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Ramming

 

Quote

Ramming is the act of colliding with another ship. Typically, ramming an enemy ship is a last-ditch tactic, as it usually results in the destruction of the involved ships. A collision between allied ships causes team damage, but the amount of damage is drastically lower than those between allied and enemy ships.

 

When ramming the damage dealt is the HP of the lowest maximum hp ship, not the current hp, the one where if he is 100% hp. So it means that if the rammer has lower then your maximum hp and if you have more remains hp then it, you survive.

 

the ramming calculations however only also factors speed,(does mean low speed (<5knots relative) collisions can be weird at times)but not the angle of impact, and anyway muti Ton ships do have a lot more kinetic energy compared to tanks when moving about.

[Donar79]

No this is working as intended. Ramming mechanic is programmed as a last Chance kill. I don't know the exact numbers but the ramming ships HP get decreased by the initial HP of the opponent ship.

I know nobody tells u but u can play around if u know how it works. If you have a ship which is more often in such situations the ramming signal is a good choice to equip since it reduces your taken dmg and raise the damage enemys take.

[thiextar]

9 minutes ago, Chibana said:

I was playing with König german battleship, and I had 95% hp with it, when a japanese BB tried to ram into me. I turned right to avoid it, then he turned left and rammed into me with a poor 15-20% angle, what is supposed to be scratching my side in reality. What has happened? My almost full hp battleship got instantly destroyed by a poorly angled ramming! WTF is it??? Is it bug or it is supposed to be in this game???

I am not a very experienced player here, but it seems a very poorly programmed physics. I would understand if I would be with destroyer or cruiser and then a much heavier ship rams into me okay, but when a basically lighter BB rams into me with very poor angle when I am with a heavier and more armored BB, then it is totally bullsh*t. What is next, a DD rams into my BB wiht 90% angle and my BB gets sliced into 2 halfs and the DD continues his travel like nothing has happaned?

If you are fighting a ship, and he starts getting really low, the last thing you want to do is get close to allow him to ram, throw you ship in reverse when he starts getting to close.

 

Ramming is powerful, but easily avoided with a bit of foresight

[Procrastes]

I have a ramming flag on my Nassau only. She carries that special Halloween Steam Punk camo, with an actual ram in the shape of a fist, so I figured it to be only right and proper to hoist that flag as a letter of intent. I have yet to actually ram someone in her, though.

[lovelacebeer]

That's pretty normal as others have explained the damage done is calculated on the ships original HP so as a BB you can ram a DD without too much concern being rammed by a BB no matter your respective healths at the time if probably going to be an unpleasant experience.

 

Just be aware that if you get too close some people will ram sometimes even when it's actually not in their interests, but it can be a useful last ditch tool if your on low health. 

[Aotearas]

32 minutes ago, Chibana said:

what is supposed to be scratching my side in reality.

Do you know what happens if two masses weighting thousands of tons scratch their sides?

[Exocet6951]

1 minute ago, Aotearas said:

Do you know what happens if two masses weighting thousands of tons scratch their sides?

 

I think we would have to ask Buzz Aldrin and his titanic brass balls! 

 

Sorry, I'll see myself out. 

[thiextar]

4 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Do you know what happens if two masses weighting thousands of tons scratch their sides?

Nah, scratching the side just gets rid of some paint. I mean look at titanic, she would have been fine if she had just scratched her side...

[ColonelPete]

15 minutes ago, thiextar said:

Nah, scratching the side just gets rid of some paint. I mean look at titanic, she would have been fine if she had just scratched her side...

That was a scratch...

Frontally she would have stayed afloat...

 

@Topic

• do not get rammed when you do not want to!
• ship collisions ARE catastrophic at these speeds (modern cargo ships stay well below 20 knt, down to 11 knt, and even at these speeds collisions can be catastrophic)

[thiextar]

30 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

That was a scratch...

Frontally she would have stayed afloat...

The sarcasm is weak in this one ^^

 

Humor aside tho, she would have been fine hitting the iceberg, if she hadnt been on fire for several days before that happened 

[Chibana]

1 hour ago, Aotearas said:

Do you know what happens if two masses weighting thousands of tons scratch their sides?

Do you know how physics works? Or what is the difference between relative and actual armor? Or why the bullets ricochet when they arrive in poor angle? Or why you get less damage when you fall on a slide than on a flat ground? And so on...

[Sir_Grzegorz]

OP please be informed that crashing into GK with Gearing did not split him in half.

We both sunk.

Hope it helps.

[thiextar]

14 minutes ago, Chibana said:

Do you know how physics works? Or what is the difference between relative and actual armor? Or why the bullets ricochet when they arrive in poor angle? Or why you get less damage when you fall on a slide than on a flat ground? And so on...

I think you seriously underestimate the mass of these ships, and the extreme amount of energy it takes to make them change directions.... Much more energy than it takes to obliterate 32mm of metal sheets at any angle.

 

A ship weighing 71000tons, travelling at 27kts, would carry a kinetic energy of about 6900 megajoules. That is equivalent of about 1.6 tons of tnt, which is about 1/10 of the worlds smallest nuclear weapon.

[Chibana]

4 minutes ago, thiextar said:

I think you seriously underestimate the mass of these ships, and the extreme amount of energy it takes to make them change directions.... Much more energy than it takes to obliterate 32mm of metal sheets at any angle.

These ships have sharp wedge-like front. How its front supposed to penetrate into 300 mm armor with poor 20% angle? What is around 400-450 mm relative armor with that poor  angle. A ship's front is not close to an iceberg in form...

[thiextar]

10 minutes ago, Chibana said:

These ships have sharp wedge-like front. How its front supposed to penetrate into 300 mm armor with poor 20% angle? What is around 400-450 mm relative armor with that poor  angle. A ship's front is not close to an iceberg in form...

One of two things will happen: Either it will go straight through that 450mm of armor, or more likely, it will scrape against the entire lenght of the ship, ripping a massive crack in the hull. The latter would be worse.

 

As i stated above, a 71000 ton battleship, moving at typical speed, carries the kinetic energy equivalent of 1/10 of a small nuclear warhead....

[Nishi_Kinuyo]

1 hour ago, Chibana said:

I was playing with König german battleship, and I had 95% hp with it, when a japanese BB tried to ram into me.  I would understand if I would be with destroyer or cruiser and then a much heavier ship rams into me okay, but when a basically lighter BB rams into me with very poor angle when I am with a heavier and more armored BB, then it is totally bullsh*t.

Your König might very well have been the lighter one, though.

Since you haven't mentioned which Japanese BB it was, I'll go assume it was a Kongou, which when fully upgraded has a displacement of around 36.000 tons compared to König's 26.000.

10 minutes ago, Chibana said:

These ships have sharp wedge-like front. How its front supposed to penetrate into 300 mm armor with poor 20% angle? What is around 400-450 mm relative armor with that poor  angle. A ship's front is not close to an iceberg in form...

Brute. Force.

[Donar79]

20 minutes ago, Chibana said:

Do you know how physics works? Or what is the difference between relative and actual armor? Or why the bullets ricochet when they arrive in poor angle? Or why you get less damage when you fall on a slide than on a flat ground? And so on...

The question is do you? You are comparing a grenade of several hundert kilos with a Battleship which has a displacement of around 26.000 tons. Different speeds and area of effect sure but really?

5 minutes ago, Chibana said:

These ships have sharp wedge-like front. How its front supposed to penetrate into 300 mm armor with poor 20% angle? What is around 400-450 mm relative armor with that poor  angle. A ship's front is not close to an iceberg in form...

 

This is no simulation!

[ColonelPete]

12 minutes ago, Chibana said:

These ships have sharp wedge-like front. How its front supposed to penetrate into 300 mm armor with poor 20% angle? What is around 400-450 mm relative armor with that poor  angle. A ship's front is not close to an iceberg in form...

• armor penetration is the smallest problem
• the hull structure may break, even the keel
• the impact shock can break machinery all over the place and cause fires (boiler breaking, electric cables shortening,...)
• sailors get thrown against walls, sharp objects or get thrown from heights or even go overboard or get crushed

[Ubertron_X]

How Wargaming thinks ramming works (never gets old):

 

[Aotearas]

1 hour ago, Chibana said:

Do you know how physics works? Or what is the difference between relative and actual armor? Or why the bullets ricochet when they arrive in poor angle? Or why you get less damage when you fall on a slide than on a flat ground? And so on...

Yes.

 

Do you know what happens to the structural skeleton of a ship when a couple tenthousand tons worth of ship's momentum apply force to it? Because at this point I'm fairly sure you don't.

[T0byJug]

3 hours ago, Chibana said:

I was playing with König german battleship, and I had 95% hp with it, when a japanese BB tried to ram into me. I turned right to avoid it, then he turned left and rammed into me with a poor 15-20% angle, what is supposed to be scratching my side in reality. What has happened? My almost full hp battleship got instantly destroyed by a poorly angled ramming! WTF is it??? Is it bug or it is supposed to be in this game???

I am not a very experienced player here, but it seems a very poorly programmed physics. I would understand if I would be with destroyer or cruiser and then a much heavier ship rams into me okay, but when a basically lighter BB rams into me with very poor angle when I am with a heavier and more armored BB, then it is totally bullsh*t. What is next, a DD rams into my BB wiht 90% angle and my BB gets sliced into 2 halfs and the DD continues his travel like nothing has happaned?

Ok war time example HMS Glowworm rammed the German cruiser hipper

 

Glowworm fully loaded 1.9k tonnes Hipper 18.5k tonnes  so Hipper was much bigger stronger and better armored than the little DD and Glowworm was heavily damaged . 

 

Hipper lost 40 M of Armour plate and had miner flooding (500 tonnes of water and a 4 degree list). Glowworm sank almost immediately . Hipper was struck  by a ship 10 times smaller and much less heavily armored.. Know think of 2 ships of  of around 30k tonnage striking each other both with similar weight and Armour

[Exocet6951]

2 hours ago, Chibana said:

These ships have sharp wedge-like front. How its front supposed to penetrate into 300 mm armor with poor 20% angle? What is around 400-450 mm relative armor with that poor  angle. A ship's front is not close to an iceberg in form...

 

Haha, are you seriously talking about armor penetration and angling when it comes down to a deformable solid weighing tens of thousands of tons, while moving through water and hitting another solid with the same properties? 

 

 

Spoiler alert : steel deforms. 

Extra spoiler alert : steel subject to enormous energy deforms a lot. 

 

 

[lossi_2018]

4 hours ago, Chibana said:

I was playing with König german battleship, and I had 95% hp with it, when a japanese BB tried to ram into me. I turned right to avoid it, then he turned left and rammed into me with a poor 15-20% angle, what is supposed to be scratching my side in reality. What has happened? My almost full hp battleship got instantly destroyed by a poorly angled ramming! WTF is it??? Is it bug or it is supposed to be in this game???

I am not a very experienced player here, but it seems a very poorly programmed physics. I would understand if I would be with destroyer or cruiser and then a much heavier ship rams into me okay, but when a basically lighter BB rams into me with very poor angle when I am with a heavier and more armored BB, then it is totally bullsh*t. What is next, a DD rams into my BB wiht 90% angle and my BB gets sliced into 2 halfs and the DD continues his travel like nothing has happaned?

Idk I'm very worried ramming will become a thing when the 'rocket' dds appear en masse. I mean a huge torp going 55km that's scary stuff. But it will prob be just fine